Question on aftermarket lug bolts with spacers

[R129 UK]

@gsxr I wonder if you (or anyone else perhaps) can possibly advise me here, on my R129 I have a hybrid situation where my front wheel bolts are recessed and my rears are effectively flush - at least when those vanity caps are added. I don't particularly mind which I end up with (perhaps erring slightly towards flush) but I would like them to look the same front and rear.

I believe I have spacers, if so, do I need to just add the thickness of the spacer to the front wheel bolt length? What would that make the required bolt length?

My specific details are as follows:

Front recessed by 33mm without vanity caps - bolt length 70mm & shank length 50mm. Tyre size 245/40/18

Rear recessed by 5mm without vanity caps – bolt length 91mm & shank length 55mm. Tyre size 275/35/18

Putting a rear bolt in front wheel = recessed 15mm




Many thanks.

 

[gsxr]

@gsxr I wonder if you (or anyone else perhaps) can possibly advise me here, on my R129 I have a hybrid situation where my front wheel bolts are recessed and my rears are effectively flush - at least when those vanity caps are added. I don't particularly mind which I end up with (perhaps erring slightly towards flush) but I would like them to look the same front and rear.

I believe I have spacers, if so, do I need to just add the thickness of the spacer to the front wheel bolt length? What would that make the required bolt length?

My specific details are as follows:

Front recessed by 33mm without vanity caps - bolt length 70mm & shank length 50mm. Tyre size 245/40/18

Rear recessed by 5mm without vanity caps – bolt length 91mm & shank length 55mm. Tyre size 275/35/18

Putting a rear bolt in front wheel = recessed 15mm

These are both aftermarket, non-MB bolts, AFAICT. Standard MB shank length is 40mm. I assume with 50-55mm shank length that you are using spacers. This complicates things, as I have not seen anything similar to your 91mm/55mm bolts pictured above - I don't know if those are available new or not.

Assuming you need to keep using the same wheels, another option is changing the spacer to the type where the spacer bolts to the hub with short bolts, and you use standard/stock OE bolts (40mm shank length) which screw directly to the spacer.

[EDIT: When bolting directly to the spacer, there's no rotor hat sandwiched in between. If the spacer is 20mm thick, 40mm shank length could be too long - make sure to test before tightening the bolts. Spacers 25mm or thicker should be fine. Bolt-on spacers don't exist under ~20mm thick. Most MB/AMG wheels should be ok with stock 40mm shank length, but aftermarket wheels with aftermarket bolts require careful measurement / testing.]

 

[R129 UK]

Assuming you need to keep using the same wheels, another option is changing the spacer to the type where the spacer bolts to the hub with short bolts, and you use standard/stock OE bolts (40mm shank length) which screw directly to the spacer.

This makes sense, thank you.

 

[SWEETLEXY]

These are both aftermarket, non-MB bolts, AFAICT. Standard MB shank length is 40mm. I assume with 50-55mm shank length that you are using spacers. This complicates things, as I have not seen anything similar to your 91mm/55mm bolts pictured above - I don't know if those are available new or not.

Assuming you need to keep using the same wheels, another option is changing the spacer to the type where the spacer bolts to the hub with short bolts, and you use standard/stock OE bolts (40mm shank length) which screw directly to the spacer.

[EDIT: When bolting directly to the spacer, there's no rotor hat sandwiched in between. If the spacer is 20mm thick, 40mm shank length could be too long - make sure to test before tightening the bolts. Spacers 25mm or thicker should be fine. Bolt-on spacers don't exist under ~20mm thick. Most MB/AMG wheels should be ok with stock 40mm shank length, but aftermarket wheels with aftermarket bolts require careful measurement / testing.]

Helpful...

 

[R129 UK]

I'm looking at 25mm spacers with 40mm wheel bolts to avoid any potential issues identified above.

Are the standard 40mm wheel bolts now NLA from MB and if so, is there anything to be aware of with aftermarket products?

 

[gsxr]

The original design bolts are NLA from MB, but I think MB still sells a generic lug bolt with short head, without decorative cap. I'd prefer to locate a set of good used OE lug bolts. If buying aftermarket, find name brand stuff, like RAD in Germany.

 

[R129 UK]

The original design bolts are NLA from MB, but I think MB still sells a generic lug bolt with short head, without decorative cap. I'd prefer to locate a set of good used OE lug bolts. If buying aftermarket, find name brand stuff, like RAD in Germany.

Used MB sets are quite expensive on eBay with a limited selection.

I'll check at the dealer tomorrow what they can offer - I'm not sure what the decorative cap bit is... I do have a set of the vanity caps in black I can fit.

 

[gsxr]

Photo below shows the 5 different lug bolt sizes typically used in the late 1980's and 1990's on the 124, 210, and 210. All of them had a decorative cap which I believe is aluminium and can be polished.





The generic, short-head bolt without decorative cap looks like this:

 

[R129 UK]

Photo below shows the 5 different lug bolt sizes typically used in the late 1980's and 1990's on the 124, 210, and 210. All of them had a decorative cap which I believe is aluminium and can be polished.

View attachment 212297



The generic, short-head bolt without decorative cap looks like this:

View attachment 212298

Thanks, I'm clearly not a wheel bolt diva as they are all fundamentally the same to me

 

[gsxr]

Thanks, I'm clearly not a wheel bolt diva as they are all fundamentally the same to me

The original designs had the polished head flush with the wheel surface, which subjectively looks better than five holes in the wheel face. Same photo here showing the difference.

 

[R129 UK]

I'll check at the dealer tomorrow what they can offer...

According to MB, with my Reg number and VIN, they have advised part MA000 990 48 07 at just under £5 each.

They are on order and available for collection later this week but I'll probably go back again early next week.

 

[gsxr]

According to MB, with my Reg number and VIN, they have advised part MA000 990 48 07 at just under £5 each.

Photos of those lug bolts are on my website at this link.

 

[R129 UK]

Photos of those lug bolts are on my website at this link.

Marvelous, thanks for confirming. I need to get hold of the correct type of spacer now and then I should be good to go aesthetically.

 

[R129 UK]

Update time - I have used the following spacer on each wheel (AMG Monobloc 2s - staggered) and the short head generic wheel bolts (MA000 990 48 07) on all wheels.







I now have the following recessed bolt heads:

Front - ~31mm
Rear - 18.5mm

This means the rear wheels must be 12.5mm "thicker" through the bolt mounting hole section leaving me with an uneven recess.

Do drawings of the different MB R129 wheels exist?



Anyway, I'm going to just add my black vanity caps on and be done with it because I don't think the difference will be visible so the front and rears will look similar but I am curious to know how I should have approached this to get flush bolt heads on both axles.

 

[gsxr]

Update time - I have used the following spacer on each wheel (AMG Monobloc 2s - staggered) and the short head generic wheel bolts (MA000 990 48 07) on all wheels.

What are the part numbers of the wheels you have mounted? (And also, the width / offset.)

I now have the following recessed bolt heads:

Front - ~31mm
Rear - 18.5mm

This means the rear wheels must be 12.5mm "thicker" through the bolt mounting hole section leaving me with an uneven recess.

I'm confused here. Are you measuring the distance from the bolt head to the wheel face? Or measuring the protrusion of the threads on the back side of the wheel?

Do drawings of the different MB R129 wheels exist?

I've never seen technical drawings with dimensions of any MB or AMG wheels.

Anyway, I'm going to just add my black vanity caps on and be done with it because I don't think the difference will be visible so the front and rears will look similar but I am curious to know how I should have approached this to get flush bolt heads on both axles.

Are you using the bolt-on spacers with all 4 wheels? Make sure the protrusion of the bolts on the back of the wheel does not exceed the depth of the spacer. The difference is, you have no brake rotor hat between the wheel and the threads...

 

[R129 UK]

What are the part numbers of the wheels you have mounted? (And also, the width / offset.)

This is (I think) a front, forgot to take any photos of the rears but could remove one tomorrow to check. No idea about width / offset, is that cast info into the alloy? I don't have any documentation related to the wheels being bought and fitted in my history file.

I'm confused here. Are you measuring the distance from the bolt head to the wheel face? Or measuring the protrusion of the threads on the back side of the wheel?

Yes, using the depth measurement of a vernier caliper to measure how far the head of the bolt is recessed into the mounting hole front the outer face of the wheel.

I've never seen technical drawings with dimensions of any MB or AMG wheels.

Pity, they would look nice.

Are you using the bolt-on spacers with all 4 wheels? Make sure the protrusion of the bolts on the back of the wheel does not exceed the depth of the spacer. The difference is, you have no brake rotor hat between the wheel and the threads...

Yes, all 4 wheels have the same spacer.

 

[gsxr]

This is (I think) a front, forgot to take any photos of the rears but could remove one tomorrow to check.

220-40-08-02 is an S-class wheel, 8.5x18 ET44. That will need at least a 20mm thick spacer to look proper on an R129. ALSO, that wheel has R14 ball seats... so you should be using an M12 bolt with R14 ball seat. Ideally you'd have a spacer with M14 female threads but the spacer kits are almost never designed to adapt M12 hubs to M14 wheels.

No idea about width / offset, is that cast info into the alloy? I don't have any documentation related to the wheels being bought and fitted in my history file.

Yes, the width / offset will be cast into the back of the wheel.

Yes, using the depth measurement of a vernier caliper to measure how far the head of the bolt is recessed into the mounting hole front the outer face of the wheel.

Ah, got it. I'd have expected the depths to be the same for front and rear wheels. Check the part numbers on both, I'm suspicious you have a set of mismatched fronts / rears...

Yes, all 4 wheels have the same spacer.

Cool. 25mm thick spacer, right? I believe that should allow most bolts to work without bottoming out.

 

[R129 UK]

220-40-08-02 is an S-class wheel, 8.5x18 ET44. That will need at least a 20mm thick spacer to look proper on an R129. ALSO, that wheel has R14 ball seats... so you should be using an M12 bolt with R14 ball seat. Ideally you'd have a spacer with M14 female threads but the spacer kits are almost never designed to adapt M12 hubs to M14 wheels.

Here is another photo of the front which appears to show 8.5 x 18 and ET44 as you predicted :



The spacers have female thread inserts and were also supplied with their own flanged bolts to go in the plain holes:

Ah, got it. I'd have expected the depths to be the same for front and rear wheels. Check the part numbers on both, I'm suspicious you have a set of mismatched fronts / rears...

The rears are ET46 9.5 x 18 and are part number A2204011902:



From what I read, this is a typical R129 setup for these type of AMG wheels, I also found this eBay listing when searching for the rear part number:

4 Original AMG Rims 8.5 + 9.5 x 18 Mercedes W215 W220 R129 W204 W207 W209 W140 | eBay UK

Do I need to rectify anything (in terms of safety) with regard to the wheel bolts I have currently used? I have not driven the car since last weekend when I fitted the spacers.

Thanks!!

 

[gsxr]

That's helpful! And, they might be a mismatched set.

A2204010802 front and A2204010902 rear are matching (for code 792)

A2204011802 front and A2204011902 rear are matching (for code 795)

You have photos showing 3 of the 4 numbers above. Post #16 shows #08, while post #18 shows what I think is #18 and #19. This may explain the difference in the depth of the bolt holes.

It would be nice to use hybrid bolts with an R14 ball seat, but I'm not sure if you will be able to find any that will also have the head flush with the wheel face.

 

[R129 UK]

I think you are correct, thanks for the diagram above (I must get my EPC sorted if this is where it came from) I will put the wheels back on and go out for a spin in the sun

EDIT: I don't think the wheels from the 2 sets are that different because the recess is the same on both front wheels with the 08 and 18 part numbers.

 

[R129 UK]

That will need at least a 20mm thick spacer to look proper on an R129.

 

[R129 UK]

@gsxr I was just doing a bit more research and I found this rim for sale which has 2 parts numbers on it - any idea why?



It looks like the X1 and X2 in the above photo might relate to the 2 part numbers but I'm not sure.

I'm fairly certain the 2 photos of a front of mine posted earlier are from the same rim but different sections (spokes) of the casting:

A220 401 08 02

A220 401 18 02

I would need to remove a front and a rear again to double check if necessary.