500E Respray

[bpat]

Unless someone talks me out of it I’m about to pull the trigger on a windows-out, mostly bare-metal Glasurit respray of my ’94 green machine. I’ve been thinking about this for a while and I’ve found a shop in Bend that seems to do nice work as best I can tell. I will do some interior refresh as well. Investment-wise it seems like a poor decision, as the cost will exceed what I guess to be the value of the car. It has about 135K miles, is mechanically sound and has been my daily driver for the past 13 years.

Am I nuts to think I can keep this thing going for another 10 years or so? I’ve driven new ones, but aside from some superior creature comforts I don’t like them better. I also recently bought a ’06 911 CS4 which I like, but that seems like more of a toy than a practical daily driver. How many of you have done something like this? Am I crazy to think I can keep driving this car another 10 years or whatever?

 

[maw1124]

I expect the cars to outlast us all, or until parts run out, whichever occurs first. Value is in the eye of the beholder, AFAIC. I’m sure others will have plenary thoughts.

maw

EDIT: Unless you expect MB and Porsche to team up on another Bruno Sacco masterpiece on a cost no object basis in the future, my view is any money you spend on it is well worth it. You know how you've taken care of it the last 13 years. It's not like it showed up on your doorstep with this question.

 

[gsxr]

If you avoid hitting fixed objects at speed, there's no reason you can't keep it going for 10-20 years or more.

 

[sheward]

Doubtful anyone here will talk you out of a respray. I'll give you a few reasons to do it.
Your car is appreciating. Virtually all new cars will depreciate.

You will be much more excited about the car when you see it as it looked when it left the factory. Especially in green.

Since the car is mechanically sound it may not be a bad idea monetarily. This depends of course on the price and level of the respray.

The disassembly process will afford the opportunity to inspect, refresh, and lubricate many items such as the widow channels, window regulators, door checks, sunroof slides, etc.

Keep in mind, some trim parts are NLA and you may be a bit disappointed having to re use them on your car, however there are work arounds.
When I had my (green!) car resprayed I asked myself what I wanted specifically with the result. There will be quite a difference between a concours level re spray with all door jambs sprayed and EVERYTHING removed vs a well done re spray that will make you happy and retain the value of the car.

You own a car in a fairly rare color that I can tell you will look beautiful with proper paint. I recommend matching the lower Sacco panels. This of course is just my personal taste.

 

[gerryvz]

I do not believe that investing in making an already car good, better, is a bad investment at all. Particularly if you are planning to keep the car for 10+ years.

It's sort of like investing in a kitchen or bathroom refirb for a house. It's money that is usually well spent and more than made back if/when the property is sold.

 

[szvook]

I plan to hand down my 500E to my family when I’m gone and have instructed to keep the car on the road at all costs. I also thought about a respray (picked up a handful of small ships from racing), but the water based paints are not to my liking. So I’m keeping my original paint as is for now. Having said that, I do have the ability to get oil based paint from Arizona, but that is a path with potential legal implications that I’m not ready to pursue just yet.

 

[bpat]

I plan to hand down my 500E to my family when I’m gone and have instructed to keep the car on the road at all costs. I also thought about a respray (picked up a handful of small ships from racing), but the water based paints are not to my liking. So I’m keeping my original paint as is for now. Having said that, I do have the ability to get oil based paint from Arizona, but that is a path with potential legal implications that I’m not ready to pursue just yet.

I wasn't aware of the issue you mention with the water based paints. It the difference in appearance or durability?

 

[szvook]

I wasn't aware of the issue you mention with the water based paints. It the difference in appearance or durability?

I have not seen two 036’s side by side with modern water based paint and the factory oil based paint to make an honest call on the appearance between the two. But my car did have the driver’s side front fender replaced when I first got the car and when the fender was painted, I was able to still have oil based paint put down. Was not easy and the shop I used would not do it again. But have heard from a few other good Mercedes body shops that the durability of the past oil based paints surpasses the modern water based paints. Plus when the water based paints are shot, there’s less layers being put down. So by that account, the oil based paints should show more depth, but that’s mostly noticeable on darker color cars. I always get compliments on my car’s paint and people are quite surprised to hear that the paint is from 1992. But I take care of my car. It’s always garaged when not in use and if I go out and have to park on the street, I always put my car cover on, rainy days aside, and I do drive my car in the rain.

 

[PJmak]

How much are you being quoted?

 

[outrbnks]

I resprayed one of my 92's about 2 years ago, the decision was already made for me when I purchased it with burnt clear coat from the Texas sun.

It was always a plan, and the quality of the Glasurit respray approaches factory paint in many ways. I haven't looked back and would do it again.

Another question is to keep the factory two tone paint scheme or go monotone. I went with the monotone and love it. If the next owner wants it to go back to original look, all he/she needs to do is repaint the lowers, easy peasy... My paint shop even made the finish look like factory orange peel, Some folks can only tell its a respray because it looks like a showroom car.

Good Luck....

 

[Jlaa]

Unless someone talks me out of it I’m about to pull the trigger on a windows-out, mostly bare-metal Glasurit respray of my ’94 green machine. I’ve been thinking about this for a while and I’ve found a shop in Bend that seems to do nice work as best I can tell. I will do some interior refresh as well. Investment-wise it seems like a poor decision, as the cost will exceed what I guess to be the value of the car. It has about 135K miles, is mechanically sound and has been my daily driver for the past 13 years.

Am I nuts to think I can keep this thing going for another 10 years or so? I’ve driven new ones, but aside from some superior creature comforts I don’t like them better. I also recently bought a ’06 911 CS4 which I like, but that seems like more of a toy than a practical daily driver. How many of you have done something like this? Am I crazy to think I can keep driving this car another 10 years or whatever?

It is obvious that the car brings you joy. Let's say all this work, including the interior refresh, costs you 25K - 30K.
Assuming all your other needs are met, then 25K-30K seems very reasonable to potentially extend that joy for another 10+ years (plus mechanical maintenance).

What else can 30K get you that nets you the same amount of joy? Not much. New cars are north of that figure.

Do what brings you joy.

 

[bpat]

Thanks for all the encouragement! I'm going ahead with it. I'm thinking I'll stick with the factory two tone look, though I don't have to decide that yet. It seems very 90's. My guy says he'll send me pictures of the process which I'll post here. He estimating 6 months for completion.

It is obvious that the car brings you joy. Let's say all this work, including the interior refresh, costs you 25K - 30K.
Assuming all your other needs are met, then 25K-30K seems very reasonable to potentially extend that joy for another 10+ years (plus mechanical maintenance).

What else can 30K get you that nets you the same amount of joy? Not much. New cars are north of that figure.

Do what brings you joy.

Unfortunately I think it'll be closer to 40K. This shop isn't cheap but I've seen some of their work and I like it, plus I like the guy who runs it. He seems to share my vision and seems committed to making it how I want it.

Still much cheaper than the new one's, which don't bring me joy.

 

[PJmak]

Is there a reason why you are going to bare metal?

I was quoted 17k locally for a glasurit repaint(9400 if I bring the car in disassembled and assemble it my self)

 

[dionphaneuf]

I'd kept $10k as a number in my head for a 'decent' respray at some point. My car has been garaged its entire life, but there is ever so minor clear coat failure on the trunk lid, and rock spray on the front. Seems like I need to up my budget (in the Bay Area FWIW).

 

[gsxr]

Unfortunately I think it'll be closer to 40K. This shop isn't cheap but ... he seems committed to making it how I want it.

Is that $40k just for paint and some interior work? If so, that is really, REALLY high. I was expecting somewhere in the ballpark of $10k-$20k. At $40k it better be glass-out, interior-out, engine-out, and rotisseried. Don't forget to go crazy with clear protection film a few months after the paint cures, particularly the lower half of the bumper and rear portion of the rocker panels.

I'll second the question about going to bare metal, btw. The MB factory process dipped the entire chassis into a bath and electro-coated everything. I'm not sure if stripping that off is a good idea, unless necessary in certain areas with damage or corrosion.

About the monochrome treatment - different colors work better than others. Pearl Black looks far better, IMO, with monochrome. Other colors may look better as the factory 2-tone. Definitely research this before making a final decision! I haven't seen many Spruce Green in monochrome.

 

[PJmak]

The shop that quoted me even said they'll put as many coats of clear on my car as I want and they do a buff and cut showroom finish.

I have a breakdown of everything. The quote was to paint the insides of doors, trunk, and hood too which I don't necessarily want to do.

40k seems kinda wayyyy too high

 

[maw1124]

This shop isn't cheap but I've seen some of their work and I like it, plus I like the guy who runs it. He seems to share my vision and seems committed to making it how I want it.

These are the considerations that matter most to me. But @gsxr comment about not going all the way to bare metal where you can, particularly with Glasurit and "your guys" has the added virtue of potentially cutting that budget a fair amount without impacting the finished product. Money saved is earned, and you keep the factory electrostatics where you can.

Looking forward to the journey in pictures.

Cheers,

maw

 

[sheward]

I also think that figure is high, but as mentioned it depends on what is being done. I would not have the car taken to bare metal for the same reasons mentioned. The shop that I used guaranteed the paint for life without doing so. The biggest way to cut costs is to do some disassembly yourself. My shops' mechanical rate was MUCH higher than their paint/prep rate.

There are other threads on resprays that you may find informative and encouraging now that you have made a decision. I hope you enjoy the anticipation as much as the final result. I did.

Here is a picture of spruce green in monochrome.

 

[bpat]

Very helpful comments! I'll investigate further.

 

[captruff]

I have been part of 3 respray cars over the last 10 years: my 16V restoration, 600Erics 500E restoration, and another 16V respray. All 3 cars were full glass out with cars being delivered to the painter dis assembled and re assembled by people other than the painter post paint. Paint is very time consuming and expensive, but when executed correctly the results are well worth the efforts,.


Jeff

 

[gsxr]

Jeff, were any of those 3 repaints near the $40k mark? Also, what paint brand was used?

You are absolutely correct that paint is very time consuming and expensive to do properly. I'd second Drew's recommendation to disassemble as much as possible yourself - not necessarily to save money, but because the shop has probably never taken apart any 124 before. Not only will it take them twice as long ($$$$) they might break things that are irreplaceable. Of course, if you break it... uh-oh.

 

[captruff]

Jeff, were any of those 3 repaints near the $40k mark? Also, what paint brand was used?

You are absolutely correct that paint is very time consuming and expensive to do properly. I'd second Drew's recommendation to disassemble as much as possible yourself - not necessarily to save money, but because the shop has probably never taken apart any 124 before. Not only will it take them twice as long ($$$$) they might break things that are irreplaceable. Of course, if you break it... uh-oh.

Dave:

Eric's car was painted as a side job by painter with privileges at a Mercedes repair center. The painter only has his own preparation crew and was only interested in painting a car, not dis assembly or re assembly. I believe the product used was Glasurit or Sikkens. That job was done some 8 years ago and it was just north of $20K

My 16V was dis assembled and prepped by the previous owner who went to great detail for the preparation. This car was a colot change from 199 Black Pearl to Obsidian black and was told $15K some 10 years ago. The painter was personal friends with the prior owner and did the job as a personal favor and they rented a spray booth from a local body shop.

The other 16V belongs to a friend and was disassembled by Matt of Leistung Autohaus. The car was a color change from Smoke Silver to Astral Silver. I think this was about $12K. The owner of the bodyshop was also the painter for this car and he has since retired.

Also I spoke to Albert about his 500E....he used the Glasurit products and painted his car personally. He said his costs for the primer, paint and clear were over $10k and his job was recent of 5 years ago IIRC.

I remember there are the additional costs: new headlights/corners, til lights, door handles, badges, grille, trims, door and window seals, and more.

Dave all 3 of the above restorations were well north of $100K all in

Jeff

 

[alabbasi]

Unless someone talks me out of it I’m about to pull the trigger on a windows-out, mostly bare-metal Glasurit respray of my ’94 green machine

Earl Scheib will paint any car for just $99.95 and it includes free polyurethane additive

 

[sheward]

guaranteed not to fade for 4 full years! Wow, have we been around that long?

 

[bpat]

I probably misspoke when I said bare metal. Here is what is being proposed, along of a sample photo, one of many, assessing the car's current paint condition. Leaving aside for now the crazy cost of it all, does this sound like the right approach?

Bruce, We have checked mil thickness on the body all around your E500 to get a feel for what is underneath the existing painted panels and I have roughed out a preliminary estimate to remove the exterior hardware, strip paint on the needed areas that are basically the rear quarter panels and rear doors, luggage lid, hood, front fenders and the sunroof panel. I have also checked on parts availability primarily to check on the exterior molding and windshield plastic fasteners. Looks like 90% of the fasteners are available, most of the exterior hardware is also available except for a few door exterior trim parts. The rear window is available with the heater if that is something you would want to address. This is all good news so far.​

​

As far as body work under the paint I gave it my best guesstimate on the quarter panels judging the surface size of each panel and the same with the rear doors (I’m guessing the rear doors have extra materials due mostly too the color blending process that was done when repairing the adjacent quarter panel). I’m not exactly sure what the issue is with the rear bumper fit. I’m guessing the rear bumper center bar is bent but it’s hard to know exactly until we remove the rear bumper. All of that being said, the preliminary estimate total is at 120 body labor hours (this would be disassembly, nice tight body work that would be tightening up any substandard metal work underneath the existing paint), assembly and about 200 refinish hours. ​

​

I did include just a few parts that came up in my software like sunroof seal, a few door weather strips that total up to about $500, no fastener clips so far but judging by what I have seen so far fasteners would be about $200 - $300 for what’s going to be obviously needed for reassembly. Rear window looks to be about $700 according to what I’m seeing less shipping and installation. Installation involves removal of some adjacent interior panels and replacement with a urethane seal kit.​

​

All refinish materials used are 100% BASF Glasurit solvent based base coat, beginning with Glasurit Epoxy on all bare steel and aluminum (this is your lifetime corrosion protection just like was done in Germany back in 1994). The final topcoat is finished in Glasurit Urethane UV Resistant Clear Coat (this is on of the recommended clear coat finishes recommended in high UV exposure areas like New Zealand and Australia). The finish will have better than original German paint texture, gloss and longevity that was due to more modern technology and chemistry. This also includes painting all the lower lighter accented plastic bumpers and cladding with the original flexible satin gloss finish like original. ​

​

Your car would get a thorough detail of the wheels (removal of four wheels for cleaning and detail of the wheels, underside wheel arches, disc brake hat and caliper refinish so all of that looks clean, bright and fresh as you walk around the car). You would receive regular photograph updates throughout the process with explanations of what is being done over the process. ​

​

I have contacted my upholstery shop, Kevin’s Upholstery and get some input on upholstery on the front seats. There are possibly new pre made covers but if not Kevin can fabricate new covers and they will look exactly correct. Kevin does some amazing work. If you would like to pursue having the seats done I can remove the seats and have Kevin work on that part while the car is in our shop having the other work completed. I do also have an interior guy that can come in and freshen up the worn or stained interior door panels, seats etc. as needed if that is something that you would like to pursue.​

 

[maw1124]

If you want to respray it, fine. But that paint looks pretty good from my eye based on this photo (I know, one dusty photo). Have you had them do a color correction on it before? It might look new with one. Just curious. Dealing with my paint (below) over the past 10 or so years, it strikes me that it's VERY thick and bounces back very well (compared, e.g., to my '06 S55 which is also garage kept and wearing original water based paint). A color correction on the S55 transformed the car, and my 500E hasn't even had one yet (just me in the garage and I'm no pro).

I grew up reconditioning cars for summer jobs, for reference. If nothing else, a few hundred dollar job will let you better assess whether you need to spend thousands. Or rather, HOW you want to spend thousands.

I mention this all because it's the type of stuff I would want to know if I asked someone to basically "tell me all the reasons I shouldn't spend $40k on a respray" -- which is how I read your original post. A color correction would be my first step to determining whether I needed to spend the extra $39,500.

maw

EDIT: They may even be willing to take the cost of the color correction off of the respray if you do it. If not, you're out the cost of the wet sand.

 

[bpat]

If you want to respray it, fine. But that paint looks pretty good from my eye based on this photo (I know, one dusty photo). Have you had them do a color correction on it before? It might look new with one. Just curious. Dealing with my paint (below) over the past 10 or so years, it strikes me that it's VERY thick and bounces back very well (compared, e.g., to my '06 S55 which is also garage kept and wearing original water based paint). A color correction on the S55 transformed the car, and my 500E hasn't even had one yet (just me in the garage and I'm no pro).

I grew up reconditioning cars for summer jobs, for reference. If nothing else, a few hundred dollar job will let you better assess whether you need to spend thousands. Or rather, HOW you want to spend thousands.

I mention this all because it's the type of stuff I would want to know if I asked someone to basically "tell me all the reasons I shouldn't spend $40k on a respray" -- which is how I read your original post. A color correction would be my first step to determining whether I needed to spend the extra $39,500.

maw

EDIT: They may even be willing to take the cost of the color correction off of the respray if you do it. If not, you're out the cost of the wet sand.

Nice looking car. My paint isn't nearly as nice as yours shows. Lots of dings and some places peeling off a little in the front. Clear coat oxidized on horizontal surfaces. Not sure if respray is the answer for sure. Appreciate everyone's comments.

 

[Whitemamba23]

I paid $4,000 for full respray of the body and lower panels in body color for my E320 Cabriolet. This included repairing the front AMG bumper and prep and paint of the AMG skirts and rear bumper, which have more curves and angles than standard skirts and bumpers.
The car hasn’t even been wet sanded and polished yet and the finish has a minimal amount of imperfections and orange peel, which will all be gone after the body shop completes the color sand. If I remember correctly, the same guy quoted me $4.5k-$5k to paint my E500. Both prices are for prep and paint only. I always remove and install everything at home. The car arrives to the paint shop with all rubber seals and trims removed. I was given a few options for the brand of material including Glasurit.

I’m very picky and his work is great. I get asked quite often how much I paid for this paint job and everyone’s reaction is priceless, their jaw drops to the ground.

See pics

 

[gsxr]

I paid $4,000 for full respray of the body and lower panel... the same guy quoted me $4.5k-$5k to paint my E500. Both prices are for prep and paint only. I always remove and install everything at home. The car arrives to the paint shop with all rubber seals and trims removed. I was given a few options for the brand of material including Glasurit.

Looks great! What paint did you use, and what was the estimated cost with Glasurit?

 

[PJmak]

Just like with anything else a paint job will probable be less expensive outside of California......fuck this state

I bought a brand new Volvo from Kansas and it cost me less than what I was quoted here for the same car even with me putting less down and paying 1100 to get it delivered here.

 

[gsxr]

'Mamba is in SoCal though?

 

[Jlaa]

Just like with anything else a paint job will probable be less expensive outside of California......fuck this state

I bought a brand new Volvo from Kansas and it cost me less than what I was quoted here for the same car even with me putting less down and paying 1100 to get it delivered here.

Legally speaking, one is not allowed to register a car with less than 7500 miles in California if it was not purchased in CA. That said I see folks driving around in cars registered elsewhere all the time. Montana is popular.

As to whether or not that is kosher … hmmmmm ….

That said I agree with your implied sentiment that the quality of governance and the attitude towards business in California is quite poor. The result is that many people do their best to legally minimize the amount of income that is subject to CA tax. If you can figure a way to minimize your income in this way, then you can tell that cesspool of rot known as “Sacramento” to suck it!

 

[thebrinksman]

I'm gonna take Ramona to Beverly Coach Craft...see what they say. The clear is weakest part of my car, but I really hesitate getting into something (a pristine paint job/respray) that I'll be constantly nervous n fussing over. Oh and $$$$$

 

[Whitemamba23]

'Mamba is in SoCal though?

Correct, I am in SoCal. It's all about finding the right people. In my opinion, there is no reason to spend $17k on a paint job unless it's a complete color change with removal of everything on the car including interior, drivetrain and wiring.

I'm also in the process of restoring my 280sl pagoda and for that I know I'll be spending around $20k for paint and body work, at minimum.

 

[gsxr]

Correct, I am in SoCal. It's all about finding the right people. In my opinion, there is no reason to spend $17k on a paint job unless it's a complete color change with removal of everything on the car including interior, drivetrain and wiring.

I feel the same way.

Did you end up with DuPont paint on the cabrio for $4k?

 

[Whitemamba23]

I feel the same way.

Did you end up with DuPont paint on the cabrio for $4k?

I'll check with the body shop and get back to you on this. I completely forgot :/

 

[PJmak]

Legally speaking, one is not allowed to register a car with less than 7500 miles in California if it was not purchased in CA. That said I see folks driving around in cars registered elsewhere all the time. Montana is popular.

As to whether or not that is kosher … hmmmmm ….

That said I agree with your implied sentiment that the quality of governance and the attitude towards business in California is quite poor. The result is that many people do their best to legally minimize the amount of income that is subject to CA tax. If you can figure a way to minimize your income in this way, then you can tell that cesspool of rot known as “Sacramento” to suck it!

Car was brand new so didn't have to deal with that. Still ended up making like four DMV trips due to incompetent staff at our local DMV office.. Up side is the car doesn't need to be smogged for the first five years. Also I wasn't aware of that law. Is that new?

 

[PJmak]

I'll check with the body shop and get back to you on this. I completely forgot :/

Yes please do and please post close p pictures. Id ship my car to So cal to have the shop paint it no problem.

 

[Whitemamba23]

Yes please do and please post close p pictures. Id ship my car to So cal to have the shop paint it no problem.

Sure, I'll get some close up pics as well.

 

[thebrinksman]

Correct, I am in SoCal. It's all about finding the right people. In my opinion, there is no reason to spend $17k on a paint job unless it's a complete color change with removal of everything on the car including interior, drivetrain and wiring.

I'm also in the process of restoring my 280sl pagoda and for that I know I'll be spending around $20k for paint and body work, at minimum.

Let me know where you end up/what you find...looking for a potential/alternate shop down here as well.

 

[Whitemamba23]

Close up pics attached. Keep in mind, this is prior to any wet sand and buff to remove orange peel and imperfections. Car is also a little dirty

Once I take it back for color sand it’ll look like a mirror. Also, no major body panels were removed (doors, fenders, hood, trunk lid), so edges will be smoothed out to blend better.

I wanted to give the new paint enough time to fully settle and cure prior to color sand. Normally I like to wait about 60-90 days. I recommend this for any respray, 60-90s days tucked away in the garage for proper curing. On my E500, It’ll stay in the garage disassembled the entire time through until the final wet sand and polish is complete. On the cabrio, we assembled it after about 30 days cause I got impatient

Unless you’re doing a concourse build, this is one of the best paint jobs you can get while still being able to enjoy the car and not have to worry about every little thing on the paint. Your pockets aren’t going to take a huge hit and the car will look great.

 

[gsxr]

I need to find a shop like that where I live!!

 

[Whitemamba23]

I need to find a shop like that where I live!!

They’re out there, just gotta do some searching. Takes time. I took my E320 coupe to a different shop and painted it for $3,500. Came out great as well but was referred to this other shop so I gave them a shot and they didn’t disappoint.

I like to drive and enjoy my cars and with that often comes paint chips from road debris. For $3,500, Im not heart broken or upset whenever something happens to the paint.

One day it’ll get an expensive restoration style respray. But in the mean time I’m going to enjoy the hell out of it.

 

[PJmak]

Wow thanks for sharing all thise look amazing. Ill scan the thread again for the shop name but if you havent posted it please do

 

[maw1124]

One day it’ll get an expensive restoration style respray. But in the mean time I’m going to enjoy the hell out of it.

Are these "before and after" pics? Is that some sort of film on the one photo? The other photo looks fabulous by the way.

maw

 

[Whitemamba23]

Are these "before and after" pics? Is that some sort of film on the one photo? The other photo looks fabulous by the way.

maw

Just two different pics. One clean, one not so much. Attached are some before pics. Typical clear coat failure on the entire top part of the car from the trunk lid to the hood.

 

[oaklandw124]

Has anyone used Spies-Hecker solvent bsed paint? The shop I am talking with to repaint my 500E is recommending it.

 

[alabbasi]

Just like with anything else a paint job will probable be less expensive outside of California......fuck this state

I bought a brand new Volvo from Kansas and it cost me less than what I was quoted here for the same car even with me putting less down and paying 1100 to get it delivered here.

I think that you'll find that the bigger the town the more reasonable the rates as there's a larger concentration of competition. I expect that you got a good deal on the Volvo because Volvo's are not hot sellers in Kansas. You could have probably found a better deal on a Chevy pickup truck in NYC or San Fran.

 

[thebrinksman]

Just two different pics. One clean, one not so much. Attached are some before pics. Typical clear coat failure on the entire top part of the car from the trunk lid to the hood.

Howdy...just wondering what shop you went to for the respray? I'm in SoCal...would like exactly what you did...make it look good but still useable. Thanks.

 

[Whitemamba23]

The cab was sprayed by multi auto group in Van Nuys