Rethinking staying with the E-420 or going back to Volvos.

[clarkz71]

Dude, you bought a $56,400 car for under $4000............

You don't have the tandem pump, that's only on the 500E with hydraulic rear suspension

Cam oilers, mine are original plastic at 127K miles, I have a set of aluminum tubes IF and when I need them

Your E420 looks to be in good shape, I'm sure you'll have no problem getting what you paid

 

[gerryvz]

My law that I have stated for years on this site -- and has been the subject of considerable debate and discussion, and disagreement among some -- is that ALL 500Es, no matter how much you paid for it, have AT LEAST $5K of deferred maintenance RIGHT NOW. I think this easily extends to the 124.034 as well.

I am actually considering a modification / clarification of my GVZ's law to read that ALL M119-based W124 models that cost under $10K, have $10-15K+ of deferred maintenance.

I think you are just learning the reality of the ownership of not only these MBs, but any car with a lot of miles on it. It's one reason why they are relatively cheap and why people get rid of them - because people know that big maintenance bills are coming due at the ~100-125K mark. That includes things like the climate control system spheres, all chassis rubber (basically all rubber bits in the suspension, motor mounts, etc.) and various items like the power steering pump, radiator, alternator, starter, and so forth.

At 20 years old, rubber items just start going from age and that would be the same with any car, not just the Mercedes-Benz.

It's all part of the price of owning these cars. I've had my E500 for 11 years now, and honestly I can count on one hand the number of major failures I've had: starter failure, leaking power steering/suspension tandem pump, and that's about it. My transmission will need repair/replacement in the future, but I've got time on that. I've put almost exactly 60,000 miles on my car.

I have done plenty of proactive maintenance and upgrades along the way, but not due to failures.

Good luck with your decision !!

 

[Bogeyman]

If I owned Volvos and was happy with them, I guess I would keep driving them.
I don't and I'm not, so I won't.

 

[gerryvz]

You will not find a more knowledgeable and informative support community than this one for the car. And it's possible to get factory MB parts for 30%+ off of list price, along with great HOW-TO details on how to maintain the car if you want to do the work yourself. If you DIY using discounted parts, with occasional dealer visits for things like alignments and such, I think these cars can be QUITE affordable to own and maintain.

 

[maw1124]

My law that I have stated for years on this site -- and has been the subject of considerable debate and discussion, and disagreement among some -- is that ALL 500Es, no matter how much you paid for it, have AT LEAST $5K of deferred maintenance RIGHT NOW. I think this easily extends to the 124.034 as well.

I am actually considering a modification / clarification of my GVZ's law to read that ALL M119-based W124 models that cost under $10K, have $10-15K+ of deferred maintenance.

I agree, and can be just a bit more direct.

If you buy any 20year old performance / "halo" car, you have to consider it a $25k venture. That can be $20k purchase and $5k upgrade, or $5k purchase and $20k upgrade. It just depends on how well you buy and what level of imperfection you're willing to live with.

I must always buy well because I'm not willing to live with much -- I'm looking for straight tens, not 7s and 8s. That's my sickness, not just with cars, and I own it. So if I don't have the money to throw at it, I don't do it. And that's my protection from my sickness.

So the question is, which car would you rather have for your money, assuming (conservatively) that you're going to spend the same either way -- a Volvo V90 or a V8 W124 MB?

Hopefully that helps you think through your decision. Good luck.

Cheers,

maw

 

[vatc5637]

I have never owned a Volvo and can't comment on which vehicle would provide you with a more satisfying ownership experience. In my view, that depends on your personal calculus of benefit (ownership/driving pleasure) v. cost. Since I can't quantify the benefit side for you, I can only comment on the costs. I've owned my '94 E420 for 15 years (got it at 42k miles) and have put over 150,000 miles on it during that time. I've never had a major mechanical failure on the road (that I didn't contribute to, i.e. hit a deer, hit another car, ignored clear signs of impending trouble, etc.). I'm still on the original transmission, but did replace my upper wiring harness. I would often experience long stretches of trouble free ownership needing nothing except fluid/filter changes, followed by spasms of spending on normal wear items (what's that they say about things happening in 3s?). As others have commented, usually when you replace/repair something major (like 4 shocks, set of tires, etc), that repair will last another 10+ years or 50,000 miles. I'd say that on average, I've spent (on average) about $500-$750 per year (again over 15 years) on maintenance items (not including upgrades like +2 wheels, upmarket stereo, etc.) on the E420. I realize that may seem like a lot to owners of other brands, but in my personal calculus, I'm ok with it. My last comment is that I am not "religious" in my upkeep of the car. I've let some minor leaks persist (oh the horrors . . . ) and the body is replete with dings, scratches, etc. Its a driver and a reliable one at that (wouldn't hesitate to drive it to CA) that eats miles, so I think my cost experience is representative, though yours will be higher if you have less tolerance for those types of things. Good luck with your decision.

 

[KarlC]

I have never owned a Mercedes and hear the horror stories on maintenance costs consistently so what say you guys who have lived with these cars?

If you ever read or hear of horror stories on maintenance costs with a W124, it's because of.....

- The car was NOT maintained in the first place
- The Owner is paying someone to much $$$ in parts and labor to catch up on the deferred maintenance
- The Shop that is doing the work does not know what they are doing and is throwing parts and labor at it hoping to fix it

A knowledgeable DIY owner who investigated the car before buying and has a resource like this site should not have this issues.

If you bought a good car, you should stick it out, you will be much happier with a 034 that a Volvo.

I hope it all works out for you, keep us posted !

 

[samiam44]

I think you are a bit flustered and not got the full picture.

I would CHECK the timing chain stretch and replace the upper most rails between the 2 gears when you do valve cover gaskets. But they last a long time- engine should be solid to 150,000 maybe longer.

Caps and rotors are $ 180 for a set. Wires last a long time, but looks like they cost ~ $130 or so.

Your 420e has a different pump than a 500e. It is a single pump, and the front seal is *EASY* to replace. Kit runs less than $20. Most PS leaks deal with hoses.

Motor mounts ~ $275 for all 3.


ETA or CC actuator go bad due to wiring- they tend to run $250-500 for a late production date which don't have the wiring issues.

I think you are just a bit premature on panic feelings, b/c Volvo's are your comfort zone.

Brakes/suspension are easy and not too expensive to maintain. Rebuilding all of the suspension over maintain tends to be a good chuck.

Is there anything at this time that is preventing you from driving the car? Is there any specific issue? What are your expectations/budget to maintain this car every year minus tires??

Michael

 

[Glen]

It's always easier to stay in your comfort zone but then you miss out on what could possibly be a better experience. Unfortunately, you won't know if it was better unless you do it and finish it. I think that's the case here.

You've spent a good amount of time and money on your .034 and overall, it sounds like you like the car. If so, you should keep it and sell the Volvo. As far a reliability, I don't think the Mercedes will let you down and strand you. They are reliable and durable once you get past the deferred maintenance items. Remember, they are deferred and the car still runs well. Start by making a list of everything the car needs and prioritize them according to what is necessary/needed vs. things you simply want to upgrade/update.

Not everythiing that is needed or wanted has to be done right now, the car will continue to provide safe and comfortable transportation.

 

[gerryvz]

It's always easier to stay in your comfort zone but then you miss out on what could possibly be a better experience. Unfortunately, you won't know if it was better unless you do it and finish it. I think that's the case here.

You've spent a good amount of time and money on your .034 and overall, it sounds like you like the car. If so, you should keep it and sell the Volvo. As far a reliability, I don't think the Mercedes will let you down and strand you. They are reliable and durable once you get past the deferred maintenance items. Remember, they are deferred and the car still runs well. Start by making a list of everything the car needs and prioritize them according to what is necessary/needed vs. things you simply want to upgrade/update.

Not everythiing that is needed or wanted has to be done right now, the car will continue to provide safe and comfortable transportation.

+1 with what Glen says. These cars are VERY reliable despite having significant deferred maintenance backlogs.

 

[samiam44]

My car is the oldest in the parking lot here at work and probably has the most miles.


Take it on the road without issues. 170,000 miles.

knock on wood=0)

Michael

 

[gsxr]

I have never owned a Mercedes and hear the horror stories on maintenance costs consistently so what say you guys who have lived with these cars?

Maintenance costs varies widely based on the model year, chassis, engine, and how well it was maintained previously.

The W124 is NOT expensive nor difficult to maintain. Anyone who claims otherwise, is either clueless, and/or incompetent, and/or only has service/repair done at their dealership. Or some combination of the above.

That said, anyone who can't turn a wrench and order discounted OE parts online, should probably buy a new Kia with 10 year bumper to bumper warranty. I don't mean this to be rude, but seriously, it doesn't make sense to buy a used car that used to be at the top of the price range in its class when new, then expect it to be cheap to own and maintain. Yes, Eric, I'm lookin' at you...

 

[clarkz71]

Kent drives a Kia


.

 

[Klink]

By any "normal" person's standards, all of the cars that we tend to discuss here are complete boondoggle, fright-pig, calamity horror, snafu disasters! And that includes these Volvos and other "related" makes. And most other European makes model year for model year are light years worse than these cars for cryin out loud! And what's universes worse than any of those others? The vastly more expensive "exotics"!

We love these cars for what they represent in our minds, then invent scenarios that we use to justify them to ourselves. It isn't necessary. If you like them, that's all the justification one needs as long as he isn't bankrupting himself...

 

[clarkz71]

Case in point: I've never even heard of an M103 needing timing chain and/or rail work. Ever!

A M103 is a lawn mower engine in comparison to a M119, The chain is much shorter and driving a single cam

Mercedes V8's have a history of chain stretch and rail issues during
the aluminum block M116/M117 run (2 cams)

The 81-83 M116 had a single row chain that would snap at 30K, we converted them to double row chains (again, 2 cams)

The M119 is the most durable in that regard when you consider it's driving 4 cams

 

[gerryvz]

Lordy, did someone mention timing chains?!?

As Vader says, the M116 and M117 timing chains have quite a long run and are notorious for stretch. As a preventative measure, the M117 chain should be replaced every 120-125,000 miles. If oil is changed religiously, you can probably stretch that to 150K, but I wouldn't go beyond that point or you're living on borrowed time. Tensioners should be replaced when the chain is replaced on an M116/M117, and ONLY the factory tensioner should be used.

The M116 models ("380") in the USA ONLY used a single-row chain for the first few years, and as of 1984 MB wised up and went to a double-row chain. Many US 380 models were retrofitted with double-row chains and sprockets back in the day (often after motors got grenaded), but this was a rather involved, dealer-only job and fairly expensive (at least a couple thousand dollars). There are more than a few unconverted 380s still out there with single-row chains, and in today's world it is not worth the time/effort/cost to convert them. Rather, it's a much better idea to just change the oil every few thousand miles, and religiously replace the timing chain on these single-row cars every 50-60K miles. If you do this, they will run forever. If you don't, you are living on borrowed time after 60K miles. I still see plenty of 380s (particularly the 155 HP 380SLs) out on the road. MB always had the double-row timing chain on non-US 380 models, and they had the double-row chain on all US 420 M116s too. Timing chains are cheap and it's not a horrible job to change a timing chain on an M116 or M117.

In fact, that reminds me, I need to change my timing chain on my 560SEC, as it's got around 110K miles on it....

M119s don't have the timing chain issues that the M116s/M117s did, but they should still be changed by 150K or so as a preventative measure, as they do stretch over time.

I changed the timing chain on my M104 at about 200K miles. Probably didn't need it, but seeing as the rest of the top-end was getting refreshed, it made sense and it was more or less incremental labor "while I was in there." Just needed to get the IWIS crimping tool and a Dremel to grind off a pin to separate the chain.

M103 and M104 chains are quite short and have a relatively straight run as compared to the V-8s. They don't suffer nearly the stress or stretch that the V-8s do. But still, they should be changed out when stretch is measured, or perhaps by 250K or so.

The life of a timing chain is directly proportional to how frequently the motor oil was changed.

 

[Klink]

Lordy, did someone mention timing chains?!?

As Vader says, the M116 and M117 timing chains have quite a long run and are notorious for stretch. As a preventative measure, the M117 chain should be replaced every 120-125,000 miles. If oil is changed religiously, you can probably stretch that to 150K, but I wouldn't go beyond that point or you're living on borrowed time. Tensioners should be replaced when the chain is replaced on an M116/M117, and ONLY the factory tensioner should be used.

The M116 models ("380") in the USA ONLY used a single-row chain for the first few years, and as of 1984 MB wised up and went to a double-row chain. Many US 380 models were retrofitted with double-row chains and sprockets back in the day (often after motors got grenaded), but this was a rather involved, dealer-only job and fairly expensive (at least a couple thousand dollars). There are more than a few unconverted 380s still out there with single-row chains, and in today's world it is not worth the time/effort/cost to convert them. Rather, it's a much better idea to just change the oil every few thousand miles, and religiously replace the timing chain on these single-row cars every 50-60K miles. If you do this, they will run forever. If you don't, you are living on borrowed time after 60K miles. I still see plenty of 380s (particularly the 155 HP 380SLs) out on the road. MB always had the double-row timing chain on non-US 380 models, and they had the double-row chain on all US 420 M116s too. Timing chains are cheap and it's not a horrible job to change a timing chain on an M116 or M117.

In fact, that reminds me, I need to change my timing chain on my 560SEC, as it's got around 110K miles on it....

M119s don't have the timing chain issues that the M116s/M117s did, but they should still be changed by 150K or so as a preventative measure, as they do stretch over time.

I changed the timing chain on my M104 at about 200K miles. Probably didn't need it, but seeing as the rest of the top-end was getting refreshed, it made sense and it was more or less incremental labor "while I was in there." Just needed to get the IWIS crimping tool and a Dremel to grind off a pin to separate the chain.

M103 and M104 chains are quite short and have a relatively straight run as compared to the V-8s. They don't suffer nearly the stress or stretch that the V-8s do. But still, they should be changed out when stretch is measured, or perhaps by 250K or so.

The life of a timing chain is directly proportional to how frequently the motor oil was changed.

Spot on perfect advice from top to bottom!

 

[clarkz71]

Nope,

She's real fine my 409.....Beach boys Impala SS 409
Little Duece Coupe

Buy me a Mercede Benz..Janis Joplin

Me in a Little Red Corvette....Prince

Hot Rod Lincoln..........Commander Cody

 

[samiam44]

Let me add to the banter again.

M119's I do not think the timing chains stretch as much as the experiences of the M117's. But lots of links a few thousands and you end up off lots. But the guides do wear and age/heat is not good long term.

Point out M103's well- what does a M103 valve job cost? How often or should I say- how long can you get away with before the head gasket has to be replaced?

I'll restate this again. While he is a new owner- I'm not sure this was in any way a well maintained car. I would even trust the Mileage as Alabama and Arkansas are 2 of the highest for rolling odometers (no real state annual inspection). so we don't know other than driver seat if it is 100,000 mile car 150 or 200+

Had the upper and lower wiring harness been replaced?
Had the ETA or CC actuator been replaced?
Receipts for brake work?
General inspection- leaking oil, trans fluid, and PS fluid ?? Probably.
Does it have ATF in the PS?
Does it have green coolant?



Michael

 

[Klink]

Is it only me, or has anyone else ever noticed that few of these songs work if they are converted to the metric system or even just a European mindset:

She's real fine my 209? Little GTI? You can hear the whistle blow 161 kilometers? Load 15,795 kg and what do you get? (okay! I know, filthy! but still). I can see for kilometers and kilometers? Somehow I just can't hear Roger Daltry singing that, even though I believe the Brits were already on the metric system...

 

[400Eric]

Nope,

She's real fine my 409.....Beach boys Impala SS 409
Little Duece Coupe

Buy me a Mercede Benz..Janis Joplin

Me in a Red Corvette....Prince

Hot Rod Lincoln..........Commander Cody

[youtube]enqNl7tdLR4[/youtube]

(Reminds of the time I out top-ended a 450SL with my mildly hopped-up 258 2bbl powered 78 AMC Concord AMX, a direct descendant of that Nash Rambler!)

 

[400Eric]

Point out M103's well- what does a M103 valve job cost? How often or should I say- how long can you get away with before the head gasket has to be replaced?

Michael

You actually mean the valve seal issue, correct? That issue is not an issue if you get an M103 built after the fix. I believe that was in '90 or '91. My 92 is a whole 'nother engine when it comes to oil consumption compared to my two older ones.

I hear about this head gasket issue all the time. I have THREE M103s, one of which I have owned for over 9 years, another of which I have owned for over 8 years. No head gasket problems yet!

I only brought up the timing chain/rail stuff because I'm facing the job with both of my M119s right now. With an infant son to deal with and an invalid dog too, ("Invalid" doesn't sound "P.C." How about "mobility challenged"?) not to mention our first and second graders, I have just too damn much right now to deal with! I flat don't have the time to deal with fixing problems on two cars that quite frankly, shouldn't require such work at less than 200,000 miles! PLENTY of cars excede 200,000 miles before requiring such work. I mentioned my three M103 cars as examples simply because they came immediately to mind since without them, I'd be driving Volvos myself right now!

First off I have just been diagnosed with AS ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankylosing_spondylitis ) the disease that Mick Mars the guitarist for Motley Crue has. This may well limit my mobility and ability in the future to do a lot of my own work on the car.

VERY sorry to hear about that.

 

[Klink]

shouldn't require such work at less than 200,000 miles! PLENTY of cars excede 200,000 miles before requiring such work..

Since someone mentioned The Beach Boys: "Help me Honda, help help me Honda!"

 

[400Eric]

Ummmmm, that's not as good as the earlier ones.

 

[alabbasi]

This goes back to another discussion that was had recently about perceived quality vs reliability between W210 and W124.

The best example of a quality car that is not reliable is a Jaguar. A pre 1996 Jaguar interior is a thing of beauty, if you can find a low mileage example and see what they looked like when they new. However the Connolly leather on the doors and seats and the wood veneer deteriorates pretty badly as the car ages. The rubber bushings that make the ride so sublime will need replacing and no one replaces them so they'll ride terribly. A Datsun 510's nylon and vinyl interior by contrast will look as good (or as crap) after 30 years and 250k.

If you want to compare your V90 to a Mercedes, you need to pick a newer Mercedes. The W124 was built in the era of the 740/760 and is a much better car in just about every way. I've not had experience with a V90 but I bought my 97 E420 with about 65k miles in 04. A close friend bought an 01 S60 T5 at the same time with 21k miles. After 10 or so years, my car had around 230k miles and his 116k miles. Mine had half the wear in twice the miles and he had a telephone books worth or receipts to his at the Volvo dealer over the same period while mine was pretty much trouble free.

 

[400Eric]

Well---
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syvZ2HX2vak

Touche'.

 

[Ascension]

I only brought up the timing chain/rail stuff because I'm facing the job with both of my M119s right now. With an infant son to deal with and an invalid dog too, ("Invalid" doesn't sound "P.C." How about "mobility challenged"?) not to mention our first and second graders, I have just too damn much right now to deal with! I flat don't have the time to deal with fixing problems on two cars that quite frankly, shouldn't require such work at less than 200,000 miles! PLENTY of cars excede 200,000 miles before requiring such work. I mentioned my three M103 cars as examples simply because they came immediately to mind since without them, I'd be driving Volvos myself right now!



VERY sorry to hear about that.

Thanks we knew something was up but this is a game changer long term and is suddenly forcing a rethink on some things.
I had issues doing the trans service on a set of ramps on my back that slowed me down and was a factor on not getting to the converter plug before I got rain. That was a wake up call for my hard head to look at changing some things here so---.
Yep it's seeing things like the chain rail issue and plastic oilier tubes that spooks me a little here on the M119.
This is not the first V engine with DOHC and chain ( the Yamaha designed 3.0 V6 in my Taurus SHO was the other) I have owned and seeing that was a surprise. What is the normal life span of the chain set up on the M-119?

 

[samiam44]

sorry to hear about your AS diagnosis. All the MB shops I've been to here in Texas use G05 coolant except for the newer ones.

I was referring to M103's tend to wear out valve guides b/c of the 2 Valve design. M104's tend to just be headgaskets. How many miles do you have on your M013?

While the W124.034 will require work- it is very maintainable. Looking long term, all the mb mechanics I know drive Toyota's and Hondas. If you want the ride/luxury or status of the benz. I would suggest something newer like a 2005-2006 E class. Find a cdi or perfect E350. Spent $12-15000 and have something with lots less service requirement/risk.

While nobody has said it. Benz's due tend to be a little fussy. Very reliable, durable and long lasting- but they require attention.

If you like the 420e, I still highly suggest you have Jono go over the car. He can fix somethings and give you the peace of mind that it will be reliable.


Michael

 

[Ascension]

If you like the 420e, I still highly suggest you have Jono go over the car. He can fix somethings and give you the peace of mind that it will be reliable.


Michael

You know bro that might just be a plan as he is not that far away!

 

[400Eric]

What is the normal life span of the chain set up on the M-119?

Uncle Gerry stated a few posts up:
".....they should still be changed by 150K or so as a preventative measure, as they do stretch over time."

I was referring to M103's tend to wear out valve guides b/c of the 2 Valve design. M104's tend to just be headgaskets. How many miles do you have on your M013?

Michael

Yes, when I said "seals" I meant to say guides/seals. What I said about "the fix" still applies.

The 88 has just under 200,000 miles, the 89 has about 237,000 miles, and the 92 has about 112,000 miles.

 

[gerryvz]

I hear about this head gasket issue all the time. I have THREE M103s, one of which I have owned for over 9 years, another of which I have owned for over 8 years. No head gasket problems yet!

My first 124 was a 1992 300TE, which I got at the dealer with about 50K miles on it back in 1992. At 120K the head gasket let go, and I had a nice chocolate milkshake in the expansion tank. This was many years ago.

At that time, a head gasket job at my local indy ran me around $1,700. This was about 12 years ago or so.

Yes, M103s certainly DO have head gasket issues. And unlike the M104 head gaskets -- which typically leak EXTERNALLY -- the M103 gaskets typically leak INTERNALLY and they enjoy sharing motor oil into the coolant jacket. So it's stealthier.

The only reason that I found out was because I came out of a restaurant one night to a pool of coolant underneath the front end of my wife's car. Turned out the oil had eaten through one of the radiator hoses and leaked.

Not to mention that you have to use citrus cleaner to clean out the entire HVAC system once oil gets in there.

And don't EVEN get me started on the M103 valve seals and guides ... very similar design to the M117.....

 

[clarkz71]

Clark Vader, I found your favorite P1800 that needs a "little" bit of work.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/volvo/p1800/1668204.html

I like it, what a power plant

Yes, M103s certainly DO have head gasket issues. And unlike the M104 head gaskets -- which typically leak EXTERNALLY -- the M103 gaskets typically leak INTERNALLY and they enjoy sharing motor oil into the coolant jacket. So it's stealthier.

And don't EVEN get me started on the M103 valve seals and guides ... very similar design to the M117.....

I've seen more M103's with pissing head gaskets then M104's

The only good thing about the M103 is you can bang out a head gasket in 4 or 5 hours with air tools and a lift.

 

[Klink]

Simply not true, you may have come across a worn out and neglected example but apples to apples, an MB will always be a better car then a Volvo. I own a Volvo 740 and it's full of hard plastic that I would expect to see in a Chevy truck. A friend owns a 960 and it's a nicer car which I'm familiar with but it's not a Mercedes Benz, you may be fond of them, and they're nice cars, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not a Mercedes Benz. Your car looks nice, the seat looks great. My E420 beautiful interior with 230k miles. My friend's T5 looked like half the car with half the miles. I'm very familiar with that car, right down to working with it.

Frankly speaking, this is why people who own MB's put up with the repair costs where others would buckle.

Thanks for the reality check, Ali !!

 

[gsxr]

Frankly speaking, this is why people who own MB's put up with the repair costs where others would buckle.

Exactly!!

There are extremely few cars available today for ~$5k (used) that have the performance, safety, features, and comfort that are on par with many brand new luxury vehicles (and generally exceed most newer 'bargain' vehicles). Every time I drive a brand-new rental car, I suddenly develop a new affection for my 124's with 100-300kmi on the clock. Therefore I am willing to put up with the DIY repairs in return for getting to drive 124's all the time. This may change in the future if the cost/availability of parts (new and used) becomes a serious issue, but at the moment, there is still a positive ROI. The only newer cars which I'd probably be content with are way, way out of my price range.

 

[400Eric]

Like I said, keep them both.

I can't imagine trying to get through life with just one 15-20 year old car. Stuff happens and you need a back-up until the main car is back online. In my case I've been driving my "back-up" for almost a year.

Honestly, you probably wouldn't get enough dough for either car to make it worth selling either one. In other words, you wouldn't be happy with the amount of money you'd be walking away with. Then, you wouldn't have enough money to buy what you want to buy. And then any car you buy will be another unknown with a brand new set of issues. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know.

Keep them both. Problem solved, no seller's remorse.

 

[samiam44]

"I was looking hard have been what was a shell shock then the reported issues with the cam drive and such on the 119"

I'm not really aware of a cam drive issue? As I see it you pay regularly with a timing belt motor of very 60,000 miles or 6 years to be safe. With synthetic oil, timing chains tend to be go ~ 3 timing belt changes. So you are at the same operating expense. Head gasket on the 6 cylinder benzs ~ cost of timing chain.

Just plan on saving some $$. The big 3 repairs would be 1) evaporator core replacement, 2) transmission Overhaul, 3) timing chain replacement.
Maybe your lucky and #1 has been done already by the original owner. #2 seems to be 150-200,000 miles due to reverse plates wearing. I'd say the same interval for #3.


Michael

 

[alabbasi]

It was the one owner well maintained E-320 honestly that had all the cheap and fragile plastic from my experience.

What can I tell you? If that's your experience, then the car that you dealt with was not a well maintained car. I had one for 10 years and 150k miles. I can count on two hands the items that 'failed' during this time.
1)Spring perch
2)Right side cat
3)Condenser
4)Aux fan
5)Blower resistor
6) Window regulator
7) Instrument cluster LCD
8) Combo switch (common failure on every MB that i've bought since my W108).

The interior and paint was in great shape to the day it got totaled by a reckless idiot who jumped a red light.

I'd be interested to know specifically what flimsy plastic material you refer to because I replaced my 97 with a 2002 and there's nothing flimsy in either car.
While I'm certain that there are worn out examples, comparing the best with the worse is not comparing at all.

 

[Trae]

There is always a BIG outlay of $$$ in the beginning to get things "right", up to date, and on a maintenance schedule.
Then, if you can get through the initial shock, the $$$ will start to slow as each issue is addressed.
At this point, you can feel confident that the car will perform with just normal maintenance for a long time.

Most buy the car, fix things $$$, get frustrated, and want to sell just at the cusp of having most of the issues addressed.
If they can hang in there a little longer, they would have many happy years of driving and learn just how reliable these cars can be.

 

[samiam44]

420 is heard for highway driving. I've measure 28 mpg more than once on trips.
Mb makes parts. Just installed a water pump over flow reservoir. It was made less than a year ago.
Ok, I'm a member of the m119 cult.

 

[TerryA]

I have now owned my 500E 9 years. When I bought it there was 87,000 on the clock. Everybody said get a new harness so I did. I now have 140,800 on the clock and still have not installed it. Don't get wound up on all of the maintenance issues. If it runs good don't go changing all sorts of parts as preventive maintenance.

IMOP change your oil regularly. I use Royal Purple 20-50 and go 6'000 miles on a change. Change the coolant with a good approved 5 year brand or 50k miles put in a new OEM thermostat.

You said you are going to re-do the brakes soon. When you do install SS brake lines.

Purchase a good set of tires on stock rims like Dave mentioned.
Get the front end checked. Replace worn parts if necessary. Get a proper alignment and START DRIVING THE DAM CAR!!!

Take any other problems as they come. In my 9 years I have changed a starter, gone thru the brakes, bought a new Interstate battery, had 1 rear axle bearing and axle changed. I did all of the work except the bearing.

Unless you have a real dog and it doesn't sound like you do drive it and enjoy it. Remember Dr. P's car has 500 K miles on it and has never been torn down. Glen is catching up on the maintenance now.

These cars are reliable.

Take Care

 

[Klink]

Kinda where I am right now on the journey. I needed to hear from you guys that when I get it all caught up these are not continuous the money pits I keep hearing from all sides that they are to keep maintained. I kinda went through the same thing with the V-90 7 years ago when I bought it with 130K on the clock.
I keep stuff forever so it's been a WHILE since I have gone through this. Guess the fear of all that going on with the health stuff is getting me also as i had more trouble under the 420 just doing some minor stuff cause it was so much lower than the Volvo than I expected due to some lost flexibility because of this stuff they say I have and it kinda freaked me out.

A car like yours is not a "continuous" money pit. They are fairly deep one or two time money pits, then it's pretty much smooth sailing into the sunset.

 

[gsxr]

A car like yours is not a "continuous" money pit. They are fairly deep one or two time money pits, then it's pretty much smooth sailing into the sunset.

Bingo. There is usually a laundry list of deferred maintenance when you buy the car, but after you sink the few grand into repairs... they SHOULD be quite reliable for a very long time. Most items are once-per-ownership repairs (wire harnesses, ETA, PCV tubes, valve cover gaskets, upper chain rails maybe, cam solenoid re-seal, PS low pressure hoses, ATF cooler hoses, trans re-seal, etc). And, most of these are not expensive if you do the work yourself and buy the parts via online discounters/dealers.

Now, if you have to pay a shop to do all the work...

 

[samiam44]

Let me correct you,

THe crank positioning sensor which triggers the ignition is on the flywheel-not the front. THe one on the front is for diagnostics only.

 

[Ascension]

Let me correct you,

THe crank positioning sensor which triggers the ignition is on the flywheel-not the front. THe one on the front is for diagnostics only.

Found that out but saw the wheel and assumed it was a crank trigger coil on plug system. Got a rude awakening when I saw the price of a full "tune up" on a M119!

 

[jhodg5ck]

Deferred maintenance? What ever do you mean? That 04 500SL that just rolled in the shop doesn't need 10K in work.... Oh, NM...it does. Dad just bought it for Daugter to celebrate her graduating law school....hope some $$ is left over from those student loans..:-/

@ascension, are you coming out when Herr Gerry is making an appearance??|

Jono

 

[Ascension]

Deferred maintenance? What ever do you mean? That 04 500SL that just rolled in the shop doesn't need 10K in work.... Oh, NM...it does. Dad just bought it for Daugter to celebrate her graduating law school....hope some $$ is left over from those student loans..:-/

@ascension, are you coming out when Herr Gerry is making an appearance??|

Jono

Want to what was that date again? Have some events coming up as a musician and need to make sure I'm not playing on that Saturday.

 

[TerryA]

http://volvoforums.com/forum/

1

 

[clarkz71]

It's all only because of your un-called for remarks on the O.P.'s earlier thread that led to it's being closed.

I had to go back and re read that.

The reason that thread was closed was because "you" insisted on promoting Jim F's resistor mod for the fans.

Not one member on here agreed with you and said so.

Yet you felt you should single me out to bicker with.

The thread was closed because of you, my friend.

Now lets end it here and stay on topic.

589

 

[400Eric]

The reasons why the thread was closed was contained in posts from YOU that were all deleted by Uncle Gerry.

Just like they'll be here too if we don't quit.

Jim F is an engineer. Is anybody who disagreed with me an engineer? I'll go with what Jim says and does.

Let's see if you end it here now and stay on topic.

Regards,
Eric

 

[clarkz71]

Yes, I totally agree

589