SBC How it works

[bing]

Interesting, but with all these sensors it's no wonder that modern MBs always have warning lights coming up, SBC/ABS/BAS/ABC/ESP/CEL ! Now diesels have this "Addblue" shit that requires topping up too. What ever next !

[video=youtube;RtWU17NLgfA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtWU17NLgfA[/video]


Jelmer, finally figured out how to embed youtube stuff

 

[Trae]

Exactly why I love 1995 Mercedes and BEFORE! Heck, I'm still working on my ASR light.

 

[emerydc8]

"Studies have shown that the ABS pulsation of conventional systems causes many drivers to not make full use of brake pedal travel." (4:57) Of course, none of those studies made it into the product literature back in the nineties when Mercedes would have you believe that their antiskid system was so much better than just plain brakes (just like their new SBC is better than conventional ABS).

I'm sorry, but this thing looks like it was designed by Airbus. I'll take the mechanical/hydraulic linkage for the brakes, thank you.


By the way, a computer records the braking inputs? It will not be long before this data works its way into the court rooms, so that lawyers can use it to incriminate the owners by using it to show a pattern or practice of hard driving or just Monday morning quarterbacking what the driver should have done. And the owners get to pay MB outrageous amounts to maintain the equipment. I'll stick with my 124 as well.

 

[Jelmer]

The recording bit is already happening. Some cars have blackboxes in them that record the last few minutes, including speed, throttle position, break position, etc etc. But that's not what this is about.

Yes, it adds a gazillion things that can break down. But who cares? It's not like modern cars are still meant to last forever. And the time you ARE driving in it, its safer. My wifes' car already has BAS (the old version), and I feel very comfortable with that. Their research showed that many people don't brake hard enough, this system helps. Good. It's the different of seeing her being smacking into the airbags (or worse...) and her standing still a bit before the object she was about to hit.

This system takes it a step further. It removes the annoying pulsating feeling from ABS. People get scared from that, and your instinctive reaction is to release the pedal. You might reapply braking power, but it takes valuable milliseconds. The same with the pre-pumping bit: brilliant. Starting to brake when you release the throttle saves another few ms. And the dry-brake? Brilliant, again. I wouldn't mind changing brake pads twice as often if I know for sure my car stops better because of it.

Also note that the move spoke of a secondary cylinder, I'm sure that system will still function when all electronics are dead.

[sub]grrr break/brake. This language is silly[/sub]

 

[emerydc8]

Maybe it is safer, presuming it works correctly when you need it, but how much is a brake module going to cost for that car in 2030 when the car is 18 years old? My guess is that Mercedes--like every other manufacturer--has spent more time designing obsolescence into their products (in addition to Mercedes' dual goal of seeing how ugly they can make a car and still get people to buy it) than worrying about quality.

My wife slammed into the back of an SUV and walked away without a scratch. The 93 400E was totaled. She estimates she was going 30 m.p.h. when she hit. When I asked her if she wanted a new car to replace it, she said no; She wanted the same model. So I replaced it with a 94 E420. And if this one is totaled, I'll be getting another M119/W124. I don't think the metal in the newer cars is even as strong. Notice you never ever see crash testing by model from year to year. I would put my money on a Mercedes made pre-1996 before they got into the battle with Lexus.

 

[195910]

SBC was introduced in the W211 E-class in 2002, only to be omitted in 2007 with the face lift... It was a complete failure in many sence:

1 - No brake feel, only has a resistance spring to give fake brake feel.. the pedal is basically a potentiometer.
2 - Slow response to pedal movement, and they didn't get it fixed.
3- Even Brake pads replacement needed the star diagnose connected to the car.
4 - Coils wear on high mileage cars requiring the unit replacement = $$$$

 

[Jelmer]

Impressive damage, glad she walked away OK. But: in a newer car, this accident might've been avoided.

As I said: 20 years ago, cars were meant to last, and most of them did. Now most of people in Europe drive around in either lawnmower powered sardine cans (VW Up!, Daihatsu Cuore, etc) or slightly larger but still disposable French crap. No-one cares about lasting for a long time, anymore. I doubt that any of the cars sold today will still be on the road in 20 years - so why bother making it reliable?

And be honest: how many people can actually drive properly? I know my wife can't (sorry, love - yes I know you read this), and her accident last winter would've been prevented with the fancy gizmos she currently has in the W203. The more computer diddly-doodahs a car has, the less the driver has to do (and screw up).

And besides. We all know Mercedes-Benz isn't the "The best or nothing" as they claim anymore. They just "make cars", so I'm not surprised at the screw-ups. Disappointed, yes.

 

[195910]

Guys MB is down to 3rd place in sales after BMW and Audi.

Problem is with stupid policies of CEO, who shifted focus to saturated and retracting markets and forgot about where the real money is BRIIC!!

The traditional models are the ones that do well, Nobody would buy a GL or R-class or shooting brake in China.. but they are buying S-class like there is no tomorrow!! UP 30% than last year.

Its time the management realised that people in the new markets buy MB because of the legacy of the W126 days: The best car in the world; not because it consumes less petrol or has less CO2 emissions than a BMW.

 

[sheward]

I believe manufacturers have crossed the threshhold of diminishing returns on this kind of technology and are well into the downside. What we need is drivers who pay attention to driving. The only significant advantage ABS provides is on snow or ice. The huge majority of accidents ABS has any significant effect on are caused by following too close. Marketing gurus love the unrealistic idea that we can not be safe enough. I do believe we will start to see more cars on the road longer. None of us can afford throw away cars. Too much weight, cost, and false security.

drew

 

[Jelmer]

Drew, I disagree. Driving a car has changed. It's not just the elite, the alpha men, or the people with loads of experience who drive, it's everyone. The reasons for driving have changed, too. It used to be for mr. business guy to go to his work. Now it's also for the missus to drive the kids to school, to visit the zoo, or to get her nails polished. (Not trying to sound sexist here, just trying to make some examples). This means more people on the road, and also more people who are less experienced. You can either make these people drive the ~50k KM per year to make them "feel" every bit of the car as good as the people who drive as much, or you can make the electronics to help them.

For MOST people all these gizmos have a very positive effect. But even MORE people overestimate their own driving ability, thinking they don't need it.

Also, what you said about snow or ice is totally wrong. It's been proven that non-ABS cars work *much* better on snow, because they create a build-up of snow in front of the wheels, helping you stop.

What I DO agree with it " What we need is drivers who pay attention to driving". But that won't happen. People hop into a car as easy as they start pushing a shopping trolley. It's a tool to get from A to B for them, nothing more.

 

[sheward]

Your points are well taken, Jelmer. We have always had inexperienced drivers on the road. Everyone has to start somewhere. There are MORE drivers on the road. I agree most people overestimate their driving abilities. I feel proper training and driving enforcement would be better use of our resources. Over here in the states, virtually no one gets cited for following too close or using the wrong lane and our driving tests are inadequate. Good point about the ineffectivness of ABS in snow (i had read this somewhere before and it makes sense although it doesn't apply for ice). All these devices have some positive effect however i don't feel they are worth the cost or could ever significantly negate driver inattention.

drew

 

[gerryvz]

Despite more and more cars on the road, dramatically more miles being driven, and continued inadequate driver training in the USA, death rates due to automobile crashes have been going down over the past 30+ years. I'd say this is 100% due to the increase in car safety features and designs, though.

Nanny cars are probably a good thing for 80% of drivers, simply because they are poor enough drivers that the nanny-technology really does help them. And this is the population that most cars are designed for, face it.

Personally, for me, I like the "old school" mechanical systems of my older cars. I know how they work, I can fix them, and they are relatively cheap to keep fixed. I always do appreciate the "gee whiz" technology of the newer cars (put it this way, driving 200 km/hr on the Autobahn in a 2012 SLK is INFINITELY nicer than driving at same speed in a 1980s R107 SL) but at the same time, I also like being in full control of my car and not having a computerized potentiometer controlling my brakes and steering. Do all of these computerized systems have backups?

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[bing]

Do all of these computerized systems have backups?

Back up is you ! When all systems fail your old school style of driving comes to play (hopefully).

 

[195910]

Safety Critical Systems like SBC do have backup.

newer MB cars are not a totally new car underneath the new design.. its is a slight evolution of the previous model, technically at least. Unfortunately compromises were made in some areas, such as quality of material and component life span to reduce the cost and keep up with market/environmental requirements. And ironically although issues in the previous model are resolved ,some new problems are created as well!!!

Take an Examples of cars I own/ed:

1991 W124 500E Vs 2007 W211 E500: A comparison of such is unjust, I owned the 500E when it was 13 years old and had 200,000km... while the E500 was 4 years old, 100,000km and dealership maintained. So we can't say that I here more noises in the 500E or had to repair a lot of stuff...Wish I had it when it was new
But I will mention some interesting facts:

1 - Engine: both have close configuration: DOCH V8, E500 is 5.5L with variable valve timing and variable manifold length = 62hp more.

2 - Transmission: 7 speeds make better response and fuel consumption...BUT control unit probably won't last till 200,000km and transmission probably no where near the 4 speed.

3 - Computer system: Faster, more sensors, better diagnosis, more features....BUT too much stuff & SCN coding must be done by MB dealer

4 - body panels: cheaper, lighter and more dynamic.... BUT less quality and durability (thin bumpers,chrome plated plastic

5 - Suspension: real nice, BUT bushing wear is regular on W211 and more careful driving with Airmatic. W124 struts are good even if you roll the car!.

6 - Service: better defined and less stuff.

7 - Brakes: 350mm Vs 300mm so definitely better...BUT brembo brake noise is only on reverse, not forward.

8 - Safety features: alot more, BUT in lower non speed / dangerous crashes you need stronger panels to reduce damage.

9 - Sound system: 12 speaker Harmon K has beefy Bass....BUT old 8 speaker Bose feels clearer.

10 - Interior material: mine is a designo edition so top stuff...BUT normal W211 leather ~..

What do you think guys ?