Yeah, I actually replaced them when I installed the 2000 rear knuckles for the diff swap. I don't know why it failed so quickly.
Maybe this had something to do with it.
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500Eboard Management
The $500 500SL Offroadster
- Thread starter Beater400E
- Start date
Maybe this had something to do with it.
So, uh, yeah. It was a vacuum leak. The car was still surging at wide open throttle through the first half of Oregon. At one point I stopped for fuel, and as I was preparing to head out I noticed the engine kind of stumbling a bit at idle. I popped the hood and pulled the air cleaner off and could hear the hissing. The manifold vacuum hose that supplies vacuum for the EGR and air pump was cracked and leaking.
Fortunately, I carry various spare hoses, and I had sime hose that worked there. I noticed the rubber hose end at the EGR valve was also in rough shape, so I replaced that too.
When I got back on the highway the car would still buck once on a WOT downshift before taking off cleanly. After a couple hours it quit even doing that. It now runs perfectly.
Thanks for the suggestion @gsxr Dave. You were right. The unmetered air from the vacuum leak was enough to make the engine go lean at high load WOT. Very glad to have found that.
Fortunately, I carry various spare hoses, and I had sime hose that worked there. I noticed the rubber hose end at the EGR valve was also in rough shape, so I replaced that too.
When I got back on the highway the car would still buck once on a WOT downshift before taking off cleanly. After a couple hours it quit even doing that. It now runs perfectly.
Thanks for the suggestion @gsxr Dave. You were right. The unmetered air from the vacuum leak was enough to make the engine go lean at high load WOT. Very glad to have found that.
Well, final trip report. I broke it. I was ripping around the beach and jumped a dune a bit too ambitiously. Both cv axles snapped at the hub. So that's the end of that. Making arrangements to trailer it back home.
The car is home. I am on my way home. Spwnt last night playing in the dunes with a Subaru Brat and a Datsun 510 wagon.
So I'm trying to figure out if there is a wheel hub that could be used that would allow me to swap to a beefier outer stub axle.
If, for example, a W140 used a beefier wheel flange hub and outer stub axle that would fit with the R129 wheel bearing, I could potentially swap those bits over onto the end of my existing axles to upgrade them. I am just beginning to research this, but the biggest question is whether there is a production axle with a larger spline stub shaft, and the same outer CV joint. If there is I can probably figure something out.
So I'm trying to figure out if there is a wheel hub that could be used that would allow me to swap to a beefier outer stub axle.
If, for example, a W140 used a beefier wheel flange hub and outer stub axle that would fit with the R129 wheel bearing, I could potentially swap those bits over onto the end of my existing axles to upgrade them. I am just beginning to research this, but the biggest question is whether there is a production axle with a larger spline stub shaft, and the same outer CV joint. If there is I can probably figure something out.
These axles are quitters.
Carnage
My research indicates that there is no combination of parts that can be made to work together without modification to beef up the stub axles.
That said, I think I may have a plan.
Late R129 knuckles (with speed sensor mounts)
R129/W124 bearings
R129/034/036 CV axle
W140 outer CV shaft end
W140 or W163 or W211 wheel hub flange
*Not sure the differences or which will be best
14mm wheel bolts
W210 axle ABS tone rings
The issue will be that the inside diameter of the W140/W163/W210 etc wheel bearing is 4mm larger than the R129/W124 bearing. It is also longer. My plan is to turn the outside of the hub down from 49mm to 45mm so it will fit the smaller bearings and then shorten the length and machine spacers as appropriate to get the flange and axle in the correct place, and allow the axle nut to properly load the bearings.
The W140 stub end is roughly 2mm larger in diameter. That might not sound like much but the math says it will be 25% stronger than the R129/W124 end.
In theory this could also be a good budget upgrade for the 500E for anyone needing a bit more strength. It does change the rear to a 14mm wheel bolt though, and of course it requires machine work on the hubs.
That said, I think I may have a plan.
Late R129 knuckles (with speed sensor mounts)
R129/W124 bearings
R129/034/036 CV axle
W140 outer CV shaft end
W140 or W163 or W211 wheel hub flange
*Not sure the differences or which will be best
14mm wheel bolts
W210 axle ABS tone rings
The issue will be that the inside diameter of the W140/W163/W210 etc wheel bearing is 4mm larger than the R129/W124 bearing. It is also longer. My plan is to turn the outside of the hub down from 49mm to 45mm so it will fit the smaller bearings and then shorten the length and machine spacers as appropriate to get the flange and axle in the correct place, and allow the axle nut to properly load the bearings.
The W140 stub end is roughly 2mm larger in diameter. That might not sound like much but the math says it will be 25% stronger than the R129/W124 end.
In theory this could also be a good budget upgrade for the 500E for anyone needing a bit more strength. It does change the rear to a 14mm wheel bolt though, and of course it requires machine work on the hubs.
Good question. I don't know. I'm just assuming I can. I know Kangaroos team sells a pricey kit to upgrade the stubs and hubs to a significantly larger setup, so I assume there must be a way.
At some point I'll tear one apart and see what's up.
I think the only thing that makes the outer cv joint "sealed" is the steel cup that the boot clamps to. That cup is basically crimped in place, but can be removed by prying the edge up all the way around.
This is a Mevotech DX130, which is specified for this application. They are showing out of stock at the retailers I've checked so far, but hopefully I'll can find one, or another compatible part.
If a replacement can be sourced, swapping the end and cleaning/regreasing the joint should be pretty simple. The replacement cup would need to be crimped back in place, but should be pretty straightforward with some creativity. I'm thinking basically a tubing cutter with a blunted edge that could roll the edge in place to secure the cup.
This is a Mevotech DX130, which is specified for this application. They are showing out of stock at the retailers I've checked so far, but hopefully I'll can find one, or another compatible part.
If a replacement can be sourced, swapping the end and cleaning/regreasing the joint should be pretty simple. The replacement cup would need to be crimped back in place, but should be pretty straightforward with some creativity. I'm thinking basically a tubing cutter with a blunted edge that could roll the edge in place to secure the cup.
I went and pulled a hub from a 99 ML430 today. No dice there. It uses a much larger spline than the W140 shaft. It would be nice if I could go to that larger spline, but I don't think I could adapt that stub end to my axles.
The W140 is almost certainly my best option, but there aren't any at the pick and pull near me right now. I may check with the junk yard that I sold my silly DIY limo to last year. If they still have it, the rear of that would have what I need.
The W140 is almost certainly my best option, but there aren't any at the pick and pull near me right now. I may check with the junk yard that I sold my silly DIY limo to last year. If they still have it, the rear of that would have what I need.
Yeah, I've looked but haven't found anything reasonably priced yet. I'll keep looking.
OK, I may have stumbled across another option for cv axles. BMW E34/E32 uses the same CV joint found on the inside of the 210mm diff Merc axle shafts. Except BMW uses that joint both inner and outer. For the stub shaft and hub they use a different design which looks more robust than the Mercedes design. The outer cv joint bolts to a flange just like the inner joint.
To make it work, I think I'd need E34/E32 stub shafts and hubs, along with I think E32 cv axles. In theory that should almost bolt in. The biggest issue is the wheel bearings but I think a 42x84x39mm bearing for an old Renault van will make it possible to put it all together.
The BMW hubs would have a 5x120 wheel bolt pattern, so I'd have to redrill the flange to 5x112, but that's no big deal. The wheel hub bore is also 6mm larger on the BMW hub. I might be able to reduce it down to Mercedes size on the lathe if there's enough material. If not, I'll make some appropriate hub centric rings to work with my spacers.
To make it work, I think I'd need E34/E32 stub shafts and hubs, along with I think E32 cv axles. In theory that should almost bolt in. The biggest issue is the wheel bearings but I think a 42x84x39mm bearing for an old Renault van will make it possible to put it all together.
The BMW hubs would have a 5x120 wheel bolt pattern, so I'd have to redrill the flange to 5x112, but that's no big deal. The wheel hub bore is also 6mm larger on the BMW hub. I might be able to reduce it down to Mercedes size on the lathe if there's enough material. If not, I'll make some appropriate hub centric rings to work with my spacers.
Not sure if I ever actually said it, but the Offroadster is all back together for now. I ended up replacing the axles, hubs, wheel bearings, and brake rotors. More damage than I'd expected.
That's just the for now fix. I'm narrowing in on a long-term upgrade.
I just finally got my hands on some BMW parts today. I don't have everything I need yet, but I'm getting there. Here's how it will work.
I'll keep the Mercedes wheel bearings. Building out from there I'll run BMW E34 wheel flanges. The E34 uses a wheel flange that had a solid shaft that goes all the way through the wheel bearing and is splined behind the bearing. There is then a cv axle drive flange that slides onto the splines and sandwiches the bearing with a huge nut. It's a beefy hub setup.
Here's my broken outer shaft next to the splined shaft from the BMW wheel flange.
Huge difference.
The inside diameter of the BMW bearing is 42mm, where the Mercedes bearing is 44mm. Rather than using a weird bearing that fits the Mercedes hub and has a 42mm ID, I think I'll just fit the wheel flange bearing surface with a sleeve to bring it up to 44mm. I'm going to have to do some machining anyway, so I might as well. The alternative would be a 42x84x39 bearing, which was only really used on some early 80's Renault vans, so are basically impossible to source in the States. By the time I got them over here they'd be well over $100 each, and replacements would be just as difficult to source if needed in the future.
To finish off the wheel side, I'd drill the wheel flange with a 5x112 bolt pattern, and then I'd need a 66.6mm hub snout to center the wheels. That hub will be a minor issue. The BMW hub is 72.6mm. By the time I machine that down to 66.6mm, there will be very little thickness left. I think what I'll end up doing is machining the face down and then boring a small pocket to accept a bolt-in hub.
On the axle side, I'll end up knocking the BMW ABS tone ring off the axle drive flange, and then I'll machine a press-on flange for the Mercedes wheel speed sensor tone ring I need for my ASR.
Here's where things get really interesting. The BMW uses CV axles with bolt-on joints on both ends. Obviously, I'll need to be able to adapt something similar. I haven't landed on an exact plan here yet, but I can think of a couple options.
First, it's important to call out that there are a few different axle drive flanges for these BMWs. The biggest had a 94mm axle bolt circle diameter. That's the same as the 6 cylinder W124s.
So, option one is to use a BMW cv axle. There are many different lengths available. No doubt I could find one that would work. The diff side flange would use the smaller cv joint, so I'd have to swap in smaller 94mm flanges. I'm not wild about this option. Obviously the wheel end gets stronger, but the rest of the axle is smaller and weaker.
Another, similar option would be to do basically the same thing, but using Mercedes 94mm axle parts. Still a downgrade.
The best option would be to use the strongest of everything. That means using the larger Mercedes axles. The large axle flanges have a 102mm bolt circle. Ideally I'd retain the 102mm flange and joint at the diff end, and then remove the stock outer joint and shaft and install another bolt flange type joint on the wheel end. Obviously I'd have to cannibalize another set of axles, but I can do that. I've already confirmed that the shafts are splined the same on both ends, so swapping ends is doable.
That leaves the major issue of trying to bolt the 102mm joint to the 94mm flange. The simplest solution for that would be an adapter plate. The adapter shouldn't be too difficult to make, but its thickness adds to the total hub end stack-up.
The BMW setup will move the wheel end CV joint away from the bearing just a bit compared to stock. I'm guessing maybe 3/4 inch or so. Adding an adapter plate would push that out even more. That difference will mean the Mercedes axle shafts will be too long. I can go to a shorter shaft to compensate. I have some other shafts that will probably work.
I might be able to shorten the height of the drive flange just a bit. I also could consider cutting the 94mm bolt flange off and weld on a 102mm flange.
Another option would be to make a new drive flange from scratch. I'd have to figure out how to spline it, but I do have Dutchman in my backyard, so that could work.
For now, I have a pair of wheel flanges, and a pair of 86mm drive flanges. Those drive flanges are too small to use, but they're useful for early mock-ups.
I'm working on getting some 94mm drive flanges still. They're not easy to find. They were only found in E34s with larger engines, as well as E32s. I'll get some at some point though. Once I have the 94mm flanges I can figure out the best way to bolt up the 102mm CV joint. Then I can mock everything up and figure out the ideal axle shaft length.
Masochism.
That's just the for now fix. I'm narrowing in on a long-term upgrade.
I just finally got my hands on some BMW parts today. I don't have everything I need yet, but I'm getting there. Here's how it will work.
I'll keep the Mercedes wheel bearings. Building out from there I'll run BMW E34 wheel flanges. The E34 uses a wheel flange that had a solid shaft that goes all the way through the wheel bearing and is splined behind the bearing. There is then a cv axle drive flange that slides onto the splines and sandwiches the bearing with a huge nut. It's a beefy hub setup.
Here's my broken outer shaft next to the splined shaft from the BMW wheel flange.
Huge difference.
The inside diameter of the BMW bearing is 42mm, where the Mercedes bearing is 44mm. Rather than using a weird bearing that fits the Mercedes hub and has a 42mm ID, I think I'll just fit the wheel flange bearing surface with a sleeve to bring it up to 44mm. I'm going to have to do some machining anyway, so I might as well. The alternative would be a 42x84x39 bearing, which was only really used on some early 80's Renault vans, so are basically impossible to source in the States. By the time I got them over here they'd be well over $100 each, and replacements would be just as difficult to source if needed in the future.
To finish off the wheel side, I'd drill the wheel flange with a 5x112 bolt pattern, and then I'd need a 66.6mm hub snout to center the wheels. That hub will be a minor issue. The BMW hub is 72.6mm. By the time I machine that down to 66.6mm, there will be very little thickness left. I think what I'll end up doing is machining the face down and then boring a small pocket to accept a bolt-in hub.
On the axle side, I'll end up knocking the BMW ABS tone ring off the axle drive flange, and then I'll machine a press-on flange for the Mercedes wheel speed sensor tone ring I need for my ASR.
Here's where things get really interesting. The BMW uses CV axles with bolt-on joints on both ends. Obviously, I'll need to be able to adapt something similar. I haven't landed on an exact plan here yet, but I can think of a couple options.
First, it's important to call out that there are a few different axle drive flanges for these BMWs. The biggest had a 94mm axle bolt circle diameter. That's the same as the 6 cylinder W124s.
So, option one is to use a BMW cv axle. There are many different lengths available. No doubt I could find one that would work. The diff side flange would use the smaller cv joint, so I'd have to swap in smaller 94mm flanges. I'm not wild about this option. Obviously the wheel end gets stronger, but the rest of the axle is smaller and weaker.
Another, similar option would be to do basically the same thing, but using Mercedes 94mm axle parts. Still a downgrade.
The best option would be to use the strongest of everything. That means using the larger Mercedes axles. The large axle flanges have a 102mm bolt circle. Ideally I'd retain the 102mm flange and joint at the diff end, and then remove the stock outer joint and shaft and install another bolt flange type joint on the wheel end. Obviously I'd have to cannibalize another set of axles, but I can do that. I've already confirmed that the shafts are splined the same on both ends, so swapping ends is doable.
That leaves the major issue of trying to bolt the 102mm joint to the 94mm flange. The simplest solution for that would be an adapter plate. The adapter shouldn't be too difficult to make, but its thickness adds to the total hub end stack-up.
The BMW setup will move the wheel end CV joint away from the bearing just a bit compared to stock. I'm guessing maybe 3/4 inch or so. Adding an adapter plate would push that out even more. That difference will mean the Mercedes axle shafts will be too long. I can go to a shorter shaft to compensate. I have some other shafts that will probably work.
I might be able to shorten the height of the drive flange just a bit. I also could consider cutting the 94mm bolt flange off and weld on a 102mm flange.
Another option would be to make a new drive flange from scratch. I'd have to figure out how to spline it, but I do have Dutchman in my backyard, so that could work.
For now, I have a pair of wheel flanges, and a pair of 86mm drive flanges. Those drive flanges are too small to use, but they're useful for early mock-ups.
I'm working on getting some 94mm drive flanges still. They're not easy to find. They were only found in E34s with larger engines, as well as E32s. I'll get some at some point though. Once I have the 94mm flanges I can figure out the best way to bolt up the 102mm CV joint. Then I can mock everything up and figure out the ideal axle shaft length.
Masochism.
I might have found a solution for drive flanges. This will sound a little crazy but... C7 Corvette rear wheel hubs. I'll need to get my hands on some to check things out for sure, but I think they may actually slide onto the BMW wheel flange shafts. If so, they are more than wide enough to accommodate a 102mm bolt pattern. And they're shorter in length than the BMW drive flanges, so that would solve both of those problems. I may order a couple Corvette hubs and see what's up.
My Corvette hubs just arrived. I was right. The BMW wheel flange does just just barely fit. I tossed one of the hubs in the lathe and cut it apart to harvest just the flange. It's hard to tell from this picture, but the fit is about the same as it is with the BMW drive flange.
There will still be a ton of other work involved, obviously, but I think I have a workable solution. Still trying to track down some E32 wheel flanges so I can determine if I'll need any spacers or anything. Pretty sure this is going to work though.
There will still be a ton of other work involved, obviously, but I think I have a workable solution. Still trying to track down some E32 wheel flanges so I can determine if I'll need any spacers or anything. Pretty sure this is going to work though.
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