OWNER TimL

[TimL]

Does anyone have pictures of the additional oil cooler that was standard on the non- U.S./Japan cars? Looking for pictures of where the cooler is located/mounted. Thanks!

 

[gsxr]

I don't have great photos, but there are a few at this link. Sample below.

 

[TimL]

I don't have great photos, but there are a few at this link. Sample below.

View attachment 170459

Sorry Dave, after all these years I should know by now that I ought to always look on w124performance first before asking for photos of any specialty install . Many thanks, as always - really appreciate it.

 

[Jlaa]

Sorry Dave, after all these years I should know by now that I ought to always look on w124performance first before asking for photos of any specialty install . Many thanks, as always - really appreciate it.

@TimL - just FWIW - I use a program (remember those? Not an app, or an application ) called site sucker (@gerryvz put me on to it) to periodically download and copy the entire contents of w124performance to a local drive..... as long as @gsxr tacitly approves of this activity! This allows for super-rapid searching of photos / contents.

A side benefit of this is that it means my copy could potentially be used a backup just in case the unimaginable happens!

 

[TimL]

Based on gsxr’s advice, I’m also getting the fuel tank strainer and fuel hose from tank to fuel pumps replaced, now that the diff is out of the car. I guess after 31 years of service it's time for a replacement.

 

[sheward]

Good decision. It's on my list as well.

 

[kegmankipp]

While you’re all up in it, maybe do the two last legs of the parking brake cables and the equalizer? The OE is very inexpensive.

Febi is the same price yet total garbage for these. Some of the worst Febi parts I’ve seen.

I replaced mine and the long run to the handle with OE and now I could set my brake with one finger it’s so smooth!

 

[TimL]

Going to Germany always ends up being a trip to NOS land. I don’t need these items right now, but I bought them as an insurance for when the time comes.(.......)German Kathrein mobile phone antenna that was used on the facelift cars and hood seal (only one side). All of it is NLA.

By a stroke of luck I was able to find the other hood seal, so now I have a complete set which I'm really happy about. The antenna I bought was installed on the car yesterday

 

[a777fan]

Tim, what is that antenna?

 

[TimL]

Hi Jon, it's the Kathrein car phone antenna that came with the European cars if you selected the optional phone. I have never seen a picture of this antenna on a non-facelift car, but I have seen a couple of facelift car that had this. One is the Porsche Museum car that was featured in their recent anniversary video.


The other is the old press release photos of the E500 Evolution


And last but not least, the E500 my dad owned back in 1994 (of which I still have an old picture)

 

[TimL]

Rear brakes are now completely done and upgraded to the proper bigger calipers. Taillight LED bulbs for indicator and brake light have been installed. Next up is the fuel tank hose and strainer, front indicator LED lights, alignment and the reinstallation of the diff that now has a wavetrac. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that it’s all done next week. Haven’t driven the car in over a month!

 

[TimL]

Diff was reinstalled back in to the car yesterday, so the rear end is done (new axles, wavetrac, new springs, new fuel tank hose strainer and seal, new flex disc and 300mm break conversion- rotors, pads, calipers, dust shields, parking brake).

Today the front indicator bulbs will get changed to LED and the alignment is going to get done and then I can pick the car up tomorrow, after 6 long weeks. Looking forward to taking it on a twisty drive later this week

 

[luckymike]

@TimL The guys at that shop have just got to love customers like you who let them do things right to keep these great cars going.

 

[gsxr]

Tim, I see new axles installed... any word if there was detectable play in any of the CV joints on the old axles? Just curious!

 

[TimL]

@TimL The guys at that shop have just got to love customers like you who let them do things right to keep these great cars going.

@luckymike , I‘m fortunate because Steve likes to work on older cars, as, according to him, they were still built with maintainability in mind vs new cars which are just optimized for shortest possible built time. I think MB Lynnwood on the other hand doesn’t really like to work on older car, as they are considered inefficient since they require lots of downtime due to some parts usually always having to come in from Germany. With that downtime comes cost and risk (having to store the car on their usually full lot which in turn is an insurance liability). My car got damaged there twice in the last 5 years, so I think the concerns they have are real.

I just hope Steve doesn’t close his shop anytime soon.

 

[TimL]

Tim, I see new axles installed... any word if there was detectable play in any of the CV joints on the old axles? Just curious!

No play according to Steve. I was the one who insisted we put them on because I had them in my parts stash and thought it would be nice to put them in together with the new wavetrac and wheel bearings.

 

[TimL]

Diff was reinstalled back in to the car yesterday, so the rear end is done (new axles, wavetrac, new springs, new fuel tank hose strainer and seal, new flex disc and 300mm break conversion- rotors, pads, calipers, dust shields, parking brake).

Today the front indicator bulbs will get changed to LED and the alignment is going to get done and then I can pick the car up tomorrow, after 6 long weeks. Looking forward to taking it on a twisty drive later this week

So after exactly two months, I picked up my car from Steve’s shop today. At the end of my road trip in May the car had developed a power loss that becomes more pronounced with increased engine temp and unfortunately that hasn’t been fixed yet, but everything else that the car went in for is done.

The power loss was diagnosed to the caused by a plugged up exhaust after LH module, EZL, vacuum connections, coils and MAF were all ruled out. I ordered a catted front section from 5thscaleracer and that is scheduled to arrive later this week. I hope that Steve can make time next week to install it, as the loss of power and the search for the root cause have been quite annoying. So fingers crossed that Steve is right and that the new exhaust section will cure it.

Despite the lack of power I hit a short stretch of twisty roads today. Unfortunately there isn’t enough power right now to check the wavetrac out . However, the suspension does feel significantly different now. The E60 replica springs and sway bar together with the sportline LCAs give the car a much firmer ride. Body roll is quite a bit reduced but that comes at the cost of the occurrence of understeer during hard cornering which I don’t mind too much because with the ASR Off function and the wavetrac there should be a chance to swing the tail out a bit to rotate the car- alas, I couldn’t test that theory today for the lack of power issue. Quite like the way it rides now!

The rear sits a bit lower than before while the front looks unchanged to me. I plan to take measurements from fender to center of wheel later this week to compare them to the measurements I took before the car went in for the mods. The wavetrac is totally noiseless and there is zero clunkiness or whine which is really nice.

Small stuff like the LED bulbs and Kathrein antenna look cool to my eye, so I’m happy with that too. Add to that the rear brake calipers that are now peaking out behind the rear wheel eight hole wheels and the geek in me thinks it makes for a cool combo

Once the exhaust goes in, I’ll stop tinkering with the car for a bit, as I want to drive and enjoy the car for a while- too much shop time and too little seat time this year for my liking.

While doing the alignment, the folks from Mercedes also did some warranty work on the remanufactured transmission which was leaking a little at the rear cover, solenoid and secondary pump, as well as transmission pan. All of which got replaced. About 10 hours worth of labor plus parts. Glad I didn’t have to pay for that after all the other recent open wallet surgery

 

[Jlaa]

So after exactly two months, I picked up my car from Steve’s shop today. At the end of my road trip in May the car had developed a power loss that becomes more pronounced with increased engine temp and unfortunately that hasn’t been fixed yet, but everything else that the car went in for is done.

The power loss was diagnosed to the caused by a plugged up exhaust after LH module, EZL, vacuum connections, coils and MAF were all ruled out. I ordered a catted front section from 5thscaleracer and that is scheduled to arrive later this week. I hope that Steve can make time next week to install it, as the loss of power and the search for the root cause have been quite annoying. So fingers crossed that Steve is right and that the new exhaust section will cure it.

Despite the lack of power I hit a short stretch of twisty roads today. Unfortunately there isn’t enough power right now to check the wavetrac out . However, the suspension does feel significantly different now. The E60 replica springs and sway bar together with the sportline LCAs give the car a much firmer ride. Body roll is quite a bit reduced but that comes at the cost of the occurrence of understeer during hard cornering which I don’t mind too much because with the ASR Off function and the wavetrac there should be a chance to swing the tail out a bit to rotate the car- alas, I couldn’t test that theory today for the lack of power issue. Quite like the way it rides now!

The rear sits a bit lower than before while the front looks unchanged to me. I plan to take measurements from fender to center of wheel later this week to compare them to the measurements I took before the car went in for the mods. The wavetrac is totally noiseless and there is zero clunkiness or whine which is really nice.

Small stuff like the LED bulbs and Kathrein antenna look cool to my eye, so I’m happy with that too.

Once the exhaust goes in, I’ll stop tinkering with the car for a bit, as I want to drive and enjoy the car for a while- too much shop time and too little seat time this year for my liking.

While doing the alignment, the folks from Mercedes also did some warranty work on the remanufactured transmission which was leaking a little at the rear cover, solenoid and secondary pump, as well as transmission pan. All of which got replaced. About 10 hours worth of labor. Glad I didn’t have to pay for that after all the other recent open wallet surgery

@TimL - out of curiosity how many miles were on your OE catalyst? With @kegmankipp ’s experience with a plugged cat as well, it seems that the catalysts maybe don’t last as long as we hope? @gsxr.

I am eager to hear how the install of the front section and catalyst from @5thscaleracer goes and how the fitment is with the magnaflos!

PS those front turn signal LEDs are absurdly bright right?

 

[TimL]

@TimL - out of curiosity how many miles were on your OE catalyst? With @kegmankipp ’s experience with a plugged cat as well, it seems that the catalysts maybe don’t last as long as we hope? @gsxr.

I am eager to hear how the install of the front section and catalyst from @5thscaleracer goes and how the fitment is with the magnaflos!

PS those front turn signal LEDs are absurdly bright right?

My car has 111k miles on it now, @Jlaa. I think they last forever in moderate climate like ours as they seem like really sturdy pieces, so I think I only have myself to blame for their failure.

Two years ago I had an exhaust shop take off the resonator and replace it with a y-pipe. They butchered the separation from the cats and ended up hammering on the cat section like a bunch of . I disliked the sound with y pipe after only a few miles so I ended up putting a NOS resonator on that I had purchased from a member (the top side of my old resonator had a small rust hole in it) only a week later. Had I not messed with all this I am pretty convinced that my cats would still be fine.

I bought the 5thscale exhaust with federal cats made by airtek which lost their eo number a couple of years ago. Don’t need California compliance.

 

[kegmankipp]

Glad you got your car back Tim, it’s going to be glorious.

Keep your eyes in the goal and soon enough you’ll forget these distractions.

I highly recommend not driving it at all till the new cats are installed now that you think the original ones are compromised.

Let’s just say a Gloria is like a baby spitting on a bonfire.

I was very lucky that I was at home and had backup

 

[maw1124]

@TimL - out of curiosity how many miles were on your OE catalyst? With @kegmankipp ’s experience with a plugged cat as well, it seems that the catalysts maybe don’t last as long as we hope? @gsxr.

I am eager to hear how the install of the front section and catalyst from @5thscaleracer goes and how the fitment is with the magnaflos!

PS those front turn signal LEDs are absurdly bright right?

Mine were toast after 60k miles... but God only knows what the gear heads before me ran for fuel... I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if race gas was used once or twice or more... visualize Hartmut pulling up to the office with the Hammer smoking back in the day. EDIT... the car also ran a RENNtech chip, which almost certainly just advanced timing and ran rich (I'm no engineer, but I got a good night's sleep last night, LOL).

Tim, your car is surely glorious. I forget whether you have first gear start, but I can speak for experience when I say the combination of a rebuilt transmission with FGS + ASR delete + refreshed suspension + LSD + freer flowing exhaust, makes this car a "never sell" as far as I'm concerned. It's what a car should have always been from the '70s until now. A brake upgrade is surplus but at least it's easy and available. LED indicators (+ brighter fogs) is next on my list to think about. Please PM me if you want to save me some grey matter.

Cheers,



maw

 

[gsxr]

I've got a couple cars with 200-250kmi on original cats that are still fine. IIRC, Glen's 1M km car is on original cats and still passing CA emissions, with flying colors, which is astounding. Best I can tell, the factory cats are absolutely top-shelf quality. The failures generally occur from physical impacts (speed bump hit, gorillas at muffler shop swinging clubs) or if contaminated via oil/fuel from oil entering combustion chamber, misfiring causing raw fuel to enter (like kegman), or possibly stuff like race gas with lead. Real bummer that factory cats are NLA now.

 

[Bogeyman]

Something doesn't add up here. In my area the most stolen item (other than Hyundais/Kias) according to news reports are catalytic converters.
If so, where are they all going? Is there a huge hoard of them somewhere? Someone trying to corner the market? I don't get it..

 

[gsxr]

Something doesn't add up here. In my area the most stolen item (other than Hyundais/Kias) according to news reports are catalytic converters.
If so, where are they all going? Is there a huge hoard of them somewhere? Someone trying to corner the market? I don't get it..

Stolen cats are Sawzalled off and sold to recyclers for $$$$. Thieves know which models have the best ROI (most valuable converters) that are easiest to remove quickly. Lots of news stories about this a few years ago. I hadn't heard as much about it lately, I wasn't sure if thefts were decreasing, or if the salvage value had dropped making them less enticing. Or if they are still being stolen in large numbers but the MSM has moved on to the next shiny clickbait story.

I'm guessing that older Mercedes are not big targets due to lack of supply, and the difficulty of jacking them high enough? Also, the recyclers who buy these things prefer large quantities of the identical converter, not one-offs from many different models. That could play a factor also.

 

[nocfn]

It is a felony here in Houston for scrap yards to buy CC. That helped quite a bit here. There is a Uhaul fleet no too far from me on the highway - and they almost shut down as their 30-40 vehicles got really light overnight one day, and then for several weeks.

 

[nocfn]

And while I am at it, when my cat goes on the e500, I will delete it like I did for the C126 as they are not required for historical vehicles in TX.

 

[744Brillantsilber]

Prices for rare earths used in cats decreased a bit during the last months.
Cat thefts are still a big problem in Germany, and old MBs seem to be a popular to steal them from

 

[TimL]

Received the Fließen front exhaust and cats from @5thscaleracer. Unpacked it and it looks like a well put together piece of kit. Hoping Steve can make some time this upcoming weekend to put it on the car and, with that, fix the power issue.

I think I will also ask him to put the new MB rear muffler on the car, since he is already messing with the exhaust anyway. Depending on the condition of the existing rear muffler I might sell it, as it’s a big piece that I don’t necessarily want to keep in my storage space as it takes up a lot of room.

 

[ArauzMotoring]

That's real pretty! I love how your car has the wavetrack installed. I also couldn't help but notice those BF Goodrich tires on there, are they factory size? How do you like them?

 

[TimL]

That's real pretty! I love how your car has the wavetrack installed. I also couldn't help but notice those BF Goodrich tires on there, are they factory size? How do you like them?

Thank you, ArauzMotoring, the exhaust does indeed seem nicely put together. I just hope it is the solution to the lack of power that has me pretty annoyed right now.

The BFGoodrich tires were about the only OEM sized summer tire that was available back in 2018 when I got the car. I truly despise all season tires as to my mind they are trying to do everything and end up being not good at anything, so I went with these summer tires. They are an old school regular summer tire that does have a surprising amount of grip In both dry and wet, but it is a somewhat loud and imprecise tire. I think unfortunately it is as good as it gets for the standard OEM size, as no one seems to offer summer tires here in the U.S. anymore

 

[nocfn]

revisit the Continental tire. The newest compound makes them softer ride. I run them on both the SEC and the E500

 

[TimL]

Steve installed the Fließen exhaust front section and cats today and it fixed the lack of power issue and I am beyond relieved that a) the car is making good power again and b) nothing caught fire when I drove up from California with a plugged up cat section
@5thscaleracer, hats off to you for making an exhaust front section that fits perfectly all along the line- awesome product you’re making!

It did change the exhaust note a little to a bit more of a rumble. Not what I wanted but it’s slight enough for me to not mind it. The new section is way lighter than the original front section which is a nice plus.

The cats that came off were visually really good, but when shaking it there was a ton of rattling. Still cursing myself for being dumb enough to have gone to a shitty exhaust shop that ruined the original cats when I wanted to try out a resonator delete.


If anyone wants the crossover pipe then let me know. $200 plus shipping. Piece is in really good shape

 

[sheward]

I didn't know 5th scales front section included the crossover. That's a fantastic price for your old one. Glad it solved your problem!

 

[TimL]

Thank you Drew!

 

[gsxr]

Tim, the factory catalyst pipe still has some value, assuming the connections at the rear are intact. A good shop could either replace the cats with straight pipes (for off-road / race use only), OR you could weld in aftermarket catalysts. All the heat shields are intact, definitely don't scrap that piece!

 

[TimL]

@gsxr, the entire thing is yours for $0 if you can figure out shipping

 

[5thscaleracer]

Steve installed the Fließen exhaust front section and cats today and it fixed the lack of power issue and I am beyond relieved that a) the car is making good power again and b) nothing caught fire when I drove up from California with a plugged up cat section
@5thscaleracer, hats off to you for making an exhaust front section that fits perfectly all along the line- awesome product you’re making!

It did change the exhaust note a little to a bit more of a rumble. Not what I wanted but it’s slight enough for me to not mind it. The new section is way lighter than the original front section which is a nice plus.

The cats that came off were visually really good, but when shaking it there was a ton of rattling. Still cursing myself for being dumb enough to have gone to a shitty exhaust shop that ruined the original cats when I wanted to try out a resonator delete.


If anyone wants the crossover pipe then let me know. $200 plus shipping. Piece is in really good shape

To be honest I have not done a sound comparison of my front section with a full stock rear section.

The rumble is due to the larger oval pipe diameter to increase flow. The aftermarket catalysts also flow more than the stock OE unit but over time it will mellow out as soot begins to build up.

The stock exhaust might even get slightly louder due to the increased volume of air.

If there are any issues let me know I am always here to help.

 

[maw1124]

A stock rear box with more flow might be an interesting sound. I always felt like the cats were what clamped down the stock exhaust. I think @TimL has probably stumbled upon a pretty natural, factory component preserving solution. Would love to hear clips.

maw

 

[TimL]

Now that the car has some “Go” again, I was finally able to try the wavetrac out. It’s seems like a really serious piece of equipment. The car claws itself out of curves much more fiercely and in turn feels more lively and eager on twisty stufff. And when you lose grip and have the ASR off, your off to power slide country

What amazes me is that there is no discernible increase in noise or vibration so the car doesn’t lose any of its mellow qualities with this install. I like this mod a lot and would recommend it to anyone who wants the ability to carry a bit more speed when driving like you mean it. Super cool that @gsxr helped wavetrac create these kits- thank you for that Dave! and thanks to @5thscaleracer for having the balls to buy these in bulk to get over the MOQs and in turn making them available to folks here.

 

[Jlaa]

Ohhhhhh thanks for that feedback! It sounds like from your feedback that Wavetrac WITHOUT disabling ASR is still extremely worthwhile as it allows for better traction out of turns (before ASR engages)?

Thanks!!

 

[TimL]

Yes, grip when powering out of curves is much better. Need to spend more time with it with ASR On though to be able to give you a definitive impression, jlaa, as today I was just trying it out with ASR Off on a stretch of twisty and empty backroad

 

[maw1124]

@gsxr and @jhodg5ck how different are these Wavetrac LSD to the RENNTech units of the day? What @TimL describes is the way my car has been. I’ve never really experienced a factory setup (test drives while shopping lo so many years ago). But from my S55 I came to love these cars with the nanny controls off. The controlled power deliver through turns makes the car feel more connected to the driver. It almost seems easier on the car too. I didn’t know @gsxr helped design the kits, so comparisons would be enlightening.

@TimL now is a kid in a candy store with a proper hoonmobile over there. These things with ASR off and LSD encourage silliness. I’m sure people don’t know WTF just happened when grandmas Mercedes comes sliding around a 90* turn at a light just for kicks (slap it into 3, hit the brakes into the turn to get 2, gas on at apex and slide just enough to show em what’s up — this will take practice).

maw

EDIT... you may have to handle shift it into 2nd during the turn depending upon speed and some other factors, but that's a detail

 

[gsxr]

maw, back in the day, RENNtech used both factory clutch-type LSD's, and also custom Gleason-Torsen LSD's. (AMG might have also used both - Jono would know.) The clutch type factory units are ok for typical street use, but when the clutches wear out it's an insane amount of labor to replace them. Oh, and the clutches are NLA of course.

The Gleason-Torsen design has no clutch pack, and is very similar in function to the Quaife ATB. The Wavetrac adds one small design change to improve power transfer when one wheel has less grip than the other - click here, then click "How It's Different". There's no easy way to tell what design the diff is without pulling the rear cover for inspection. However, if there's a metal tag at the bottom cover bolt that says (in German) something like "special oil required - LSD" (photo here), then it may be a factory clutch-type LSD.

Back in the day, rumor was the Gleason-Torsen diffs could be a bit fragile and there was concern about breakage. I'm not sure how accurate this is, and/or how reliable the G-T diffs were. Both the Quaife and Wavetrac have lifetime warranties even with competition use; they are nearly bulletproof.

 

[maw1124]

Thanks gsxr... bottom line seems to be leave it until there's trouble, then move to a quaife or wavetrac at that time ("don't go buy trouble").

maw

 

[5thscaleracer]

all that being said.

I have 1 Wavetrac unit left hahahha.

Currently temporarily unavailable from Wavetrac unless a crazy nut like my self orders 25 again.

 

[TimL]

Alright, today the exhaust saga was finished - at least for now. I had the car at MB Lynwood where they installed a new MB rear muffler I had purchased a year ago, they also swapped out all the exhaust hangers- thanks again to @RicardoD for the suggestion of replacing the NLA 1244920082 with 1074920044. The rear hangers are also NLA and instead of using the very soft donuts 1074920082, Steve suggested the much more rigid 1244920044.

In the meantime I hopelessly lost out on the NOS exhaust front section I happened across. Someone bid 5.5k Euro plus freight to the Middle East for it, leaving my bid of 4.6K Euro faaaar behind

So I purchased this supposedly less than 50k km front section in Germany today and that will go on the car once the exhaust section arrives.



The Fließen section I just had installed has a rumble to it and while that is appreciated, I just want the OEM sound that I am so very very fond of.

When it rains it pours. My brembo front calipers are making an obnoxious humming noise now, adding to the never ending list of shit to fix. I will get the used 320mm ATE calipers refurbished and if I like the results I will put them on the car. If not, then I will bite the bullet and buy new calipers (the are still available, albeit at an eye watering price of $1.4K per- discounts get that to $1k per). Bought the last dust shield. The other side is, of course(!), NLA . Add a couple of discs, pads and wheel bearings plus a kidney for labor and I‘m all set. I’m getting increasingly annoyed with the unexpected outflow of money to fix ever new issues that rear their head just when I thought I was getting there.

Once the Brembo Honk is gone and the OEM exhaust front section is on, I will just give the whole thing a bit of a rest. Too much shop time, too little wheel time and way too much open wallet surgery

 

[sheward]

That front section looks as new. Nice. I follow on the exhaust notes. Although I like the low rumble from the Flieben rear section on my green car I smile a different smile when I feel my stock silver car pull with seemingly no sound at all.

 

[gsxr]

Tim, FYI... the dust shield for the 320mm brakes is only around 10mm larger diameter vs what you have now. You don't have to replace the dust shields, and there's little if any benefit to doing so, other than lightening your wallet further... the hubs have to be removed, with risk of getting dirt/debris into the wheel bearings... which means maybe repacking the bearings... $$$$.... etc etc. I'd leave the existing dust shields.

 

[TimL]

That is great info to have, Dave, thank you! I shall leave them as is then! I thought it was mandatory, like it was with the rear conversion to the 300mm setup.

 

[TimL]

I sent the used 320mm ATE brakes that I just purchased out for refurbishment today. I decided to give that a try first to see if that works before plunking down $2,200 for brand new calipers. If the refurb turns out to be mediocre then I’ll bite the bullet.

I sent them to a local shop (Goldline Brakes) that MB Lynnwood uses. The place has been around for 40 years so I’m somewhat hopeful that they’ll do a good job. Supposedly they can turn them around within a week which would be great because the Brembo Honk I got going on is getting on my nerves really badly