(W210) [E50] or [E60] That is the question

[Konradwro]

Hello! My name is Konrad and I live in Poland. Last year I bought a Mercedes E50 AMG in France. This is not my first fast car, so I have some doubts about whether it is the 5 liter version, as it is extremely fast considering the supposed engine power and age of the car. The engine does not indicate that it is a 6-liter version, but the performance I measured on GPS in conditions far from optimal is 0-100 - 5.7s and 0-180 - 16.2s. I think you can reach 5.3-5.2 up to 100 km/h without any major problems.

An interesting fact is that the car has ADS SKYHOOK suspension. When driving in normal suspension mode, the car cuts off at 250 km/h, but if we select the sport suspension mode, the limiter does not block the car, I reached 280 km/h without any major problems and the car still had power to spare.

An additional thing that I have not encountered in any Mercedes - on the rating sticker, in place of the color code, there is an entry: MY1.

I also attach photos of the car and equipment codes. Are you able to determine what engine version is in this particular car based on the VIN, DATACARD and SA Numbers?

Regards, Konrad

 

[gsxr]

Hello! My name is Konrad and I live in Poland. Last year I bought a Mercedes E50 AMG in France.

Sweet car - congrats!

This is not my first fast car, so I have some doubts about whether it is the 5 liter version, as it is extremely fast considering the supposed engine power and age of the car. The engine does not indicate that it is a 6-liter version, but the performance I measured on GPS in conditions far from optimal is 0-100 - 5.7s and 0-180 - 16.2s. I think you can reach 5.3-5.2 up to 100 km/h without any major problems.

0-180kph (112mph) in 16.2 seconds is about right for an E50 making ~345hp.

The E60 should be about 14 seconds from 0-180kph, maybe quicker.

0-100kph testing isn't particularly useful as you often have wheelspin on public roads and ESP engages. Testing to higher speeds generally provides better data, so it was helpful that you tested to 180kph also.

An interesting fact is that the car has ADS SKYHOOK suspension. When driving in normal suspension mode, the car cuts off at 250 km/h, but if we select the sport suspension mode, the limiter does not block the car, I reached 280 km/h without any major problems and the car still had power to spare.

I know what ADS is, but I'm not familiar with "Skyhook". And, it's really interesting that changing the suspension mode removes the top speed limiter! I thought all factory cars were limited to 250kph regardless of suspension settings?

If my maths are correct, the engine will be around 6100rpm at 280kph. I don't think it will rev much beyond that point. If you could get it to pull to 6300 that should be right around 290kph (180mph). The E50 should have enough power to achieve 280-290kph vMax. The E60 will just get there quicker, but won't go faster without taller differential gears.

I also attach photos of the car and equipment codes. Are you able to determine what engine version is in this particular car based on the VIN, DATACARD and SA Numbers?

Unfortunately Mercedes did not provide any definite way to prove 6.0L engine displacement on the 210.072 chassis with code 957. Look at the engine block stamps, and see if there is anything showing 6.0L. You can also look at the block casting numbers, if it's an open-deck block, it's definitely 5.0L displacement. If closed-deck, it might be 6.0L.

The only way to verify 6.0L displacement for certain is to remove a spark plug, slide a long 3/8" extension down the plug hole, and rotate the crankshaft by hand. Measure the stroke and see if it's 85mm (5.0L) or 95mm (6.0L).


BTW, welcome to the forum!

 

[Konradwro]

Sweet car - congrats!



0-180kph (112mph) in 16.2 seconds is about right for an E50 making ~345hp.

The E60 should be about 14 seconds from 0-180kph, maybe quicker.

0-100kph testing isn't particularly useful as you often have wheelspin on public roads and ESP engages. Testing to higher speeds generally provides better data, so it was helpful that you tested to 180kph also.




I know what ADS is, but I'm not familiar with "Skyhook". And, it's really interesting that changing the suspension mode removes the top speed limiter! I thought all factory cars were limited to 250kph regardless of suspension settings?

If my maths are correct, the engine will be around 6100rpm at 280kph. I don't think it will rev much beyond that point. If you could get it to pull to 6300 that should be right around 290kph (180mph). The E50 should have enough power to achieve 280-290kph vMax. The E60 will just get there quicker, but won't go faster without taller differential gears.




Unfortunately Mercedes did not provide any definite way to prove 6.0L engine displacement on the 210.072 chassis with code 957. Look at the engine block stamps, and see if there is anything showing 6.0L. You can also look at the block casting numbers, if it's an open-deck block, it's definitely 5.0L displacement. If closed-deck, it might be 6.0L.

The only way to verify 6.0L displacement for certain is to remove a spark plug, slide a long 3/8" extension down the plug hole, and rotate the crankshaft by hand. Measure the stroke and see if it's 85mm (5.0L) or 95mm (6.0L).


BTW, welcome to the forum!

I have some photos when we take up the upper lids. Tommorow i proof the stroke. Another interesting is the compression ratio on block 10.0

 

[gsxr]

Hmm.... that is odd. I thought the 5.0L engine was 11:1 compression ratio...?

 

[Konradwro]

Hmm.... that is odd. I thought the 5.0L engine was 11:1 compression ratio...?

I also think it should…

 

[WDB748372]

An interesting fact is that the car has ADS SKYHOOK suspension. When driving in normal suspension mode, the car cuts off at 250 km/h, but if we select the sport suspension mode, the limiter does not block the car, I reached 280 km/h without any major problems and the car still had power to spare.

First time hearing this. I have to try this out sometime on the E60.

An additional thing that I have not encountered in any Mercedes - on the rating sticker, in place of the color code, there is an entry: MY1.

I don't think there's always a color code there. Mine is empty. I came across one E50 with a bunch of characters I couldn't make sense of.

I have some doubts about whether it is the 5 liter version, as it is extremely fast considering the supposed engine power and age of the car.

I felt the same way when driving an E60, noticeably fast but it's difficult to judge from your video. As gsxr mentioned the definitive way would be to measure the stroke. Have a look at the block stamping on the driver side of the engine, that would be an interesting bit of info depending on how the stroke measurement goes. Certainly an interesting car given the compression ratio. I used to have a W210 in this color, very neat. This is the second most common color on the E50s after Brilliant Silver.

 

[Konradwro]

I know what ADS is, but I'm not familiar with "Skyhook". And, it's really interesting that changing the suspension mode removes the top speed limiter! I thought all factory cars were limited to 250kph regardless of suspension settings?

If my maths are correct, the engine will be around 6100rpm at 280kph. I don't think it will rev much beyond that point. If you could get it to pull to 6300 that should be right around 290kph (180mph). The E50 should have enough power to achieve 280-290kph vMax. The E60 will just get there quicker, but won't go faster without taller differential gears.

I have some photos by high speed on 4th and 5th gear. Interesting is that the difference by GPS and tacho in speed by 264km/h on tacho is 259km/h by gps

4th gear is ending by 265/270 and have 6400 rpm by 255km/h



5th gear is 5100 by 240, 5400 by 260, 5500 by 270, when i drive 270 and close the accelerator the car reduced gear to 4th…

 

[Konradwro]

First time hearing this. I have to try this out sometime on the E60.


I don't think there's always a color code there. Mine is empty. I came across one E50 with a bunch of characters I couldn't make sense of.
View attachment 184862


I felt the same way when driving an E60, noticeably fast but it's difficult to judge from your video. As gsxr mentioned the definitive way would be to measure the stroke. Have a look at the block stamping on the driver side of the engine, that would be an interesting bit of info depending on how the stroke measurement goes. Certainly an interesting car given the compression ratio. I used to have a W210 in this color, very neat. This is the second most common color on the E50s after Brilliant Silver.

Thx for this photo… Now i have mindf***



Number which i have marked in red is TVV number - type of vehicle. CoC tell that is:

1. Type, Variant, Version: Specifies the model and its variations. Overall, the States TVV is a useful tool for identifying and classifying vehicles based on their characteristics and specifications, and it plays an important role in ensuring compliance with regulatory standards and facilitating the exchange of information about specific vehicles.

On blue i have marked homologation number CE - CE marking indicates that a product has been assessed by the manufacturer and deemed to meet EU safety, health and environmental protection requirements.

And now… That can be more complicated than i think. When TVV is MY1 that is proof that is like another car, CE is also another in my e50 and this from picture, that confirm that the car have another engine in 100%. This is from E50 or E60?

 

[gsxr]

Your engine serial (991779) stamped on the block matches the datacard, so it appears to be the original engine.

However, that does not answer the question on displacement. Need to measure stroke.

You could also check SDS control module data for ME 1.0 to see if that shows displacement, and/or a different coding vs normal E50?

 

[Konradwro]

Your engine serial (991779) stamped on the block matches the datacard, so it appears to be the original engine.

However, that does not answer the question on displacement. Need to measure stroke.

You could also check SDS control module data for ME 1.0 to see if that shows displacement, and/or a different coding vs normal E50?



View attachment 184917

I found old amg brochure from 1996, and…

 

[WDB748372]

Thx for this photo… Now i have mindf***

View attachment 184916

Number which i have marked in red is TVV number - type of vehicle. CoC tell that is:

1. Type, Variant, Version: Specifies the model and its variations. Overall, the States TVV is a useful tool for identifying and classifying vehicles based on their characteristics and specifications, and it plays an important role in ensuring compliance with regulatory standards and facilitating the exchange of information about specific vehicles.

On blue i have marked homologation number CE - CE marking indicates that a product has been assessed by the manufacturer and deemed to meet EU safety, health and environmental protection requirements.

And now… That can be more complicated than i think. When TVV is MY1 that is proof that is like another car, CE is also another in my e50 and this from picture, that confirm that the car have another engine in 100%. This is from E50 or E60?

This is from an E50 that I came across. I'm not familiar with TVV or what MY1 means/stands for. Even if this supports the claim leading to the possibility that this might be a 6.0L such as this MY1 indication you mentioned to confirm a replacement engine, the compression ratio or a possible block stamp to indicate a closed-deck block, it's better to jump directly to a method that will be conclusive.

 

[Markus-MD]

Miracale over miracale. GSXR wrote take out sparkplug and measure the 85mm or 94,5 mm and then your in Balance with your Engine.
I think you have a normal 5,0 with change Rev Limit .and when you have bad luck only change the Frontplate from you speedometer.
normal e50 with 3,06 gear ratio ist total differnt to e420 or 5,0 R129sl.
But nice car

 

[gsxr]

I found old amg brochure from 1996, and…

What are the speeds for each of those times shown in the chart (6.2, 6.4, 14.2, 25.4)?

Can you post a link to the full brochure?

 

[Konradwro]

What are the speeds for each of those times shown in the chart (6.2, 6.4, 14.2, 25.4)?

Can you post a link to the full brochure?

Hi! Special for u !

AMG 2-1996 (D)

AMG Presse-Information 1997 (D)

7-1996 (D)

AMG 6-1996 (E)

30 Years AMG 1997 (E)

Best Regards Konrad

 

[Konradwro]

What are the speeds for each of those times shown in the chart (6.2, 6.4, 14.2, 25.4)?

Can you post a link to the full brochure?

0-100 is 6.2
60-120 is 6.4
0-400m - 14.2
0-1000m - 25.4

 

[Konradwro]

What are the speeds for each of those times shown in the chart (6.2, 6.4, 14.2, 25.4)?

Can you post a link to the full brochure?

And i have also the times from test modificated w 210.

Brabus e650:


Carlson C62T


Standard


And also from french test:


Und my in winter


I wait for better Wetter and better time checker

 

[Konradwro]

And i find also my times 60-120 and 80-140

 

[Konradwro]

Miracale over miracale. GSXR wrote take out sparkplug and measure the 85mm or 94,5 mm and then your in Balance with your Engine.
I think you have a normal 5,0 with change Rev Limit .and when you have bad luck only change the Frontplate from you speedometer.
normal e50 with 3,06 gear ratio ist total differnt to e420 or 5,0 R129sl.
But nice car

Markus-MD i don’t look for speedometer, i proof times with GPS not speedometer

 

[Konradwro]

Brabus e650 - 450 ps / 444hp

0-100 - 5,2
100-180 - 9,3
80-140 - 5,2


Carlson c62t (e420t mod) - 425ps/ 419hp

0-100 - 5,6
100-180 - 10,6
80-140 - 5,8


E50

0-100 - 5,7
100-180 - 10,9
80-140 - 5,9


E50 french test

0-100 - 5,9
100-180 - 11,1
80-140 - 6,0
60-120 - 4,9
60-100 - 2,8


160000 km 27y old my star:

0-100 : 5,7
100-180 : 10,5
80-140: 5,4
60-120: 4,7
60-100 : 2,7

And my times can be better but i must have a optimal road conditions. In my opinion it is not normal that car is faster than when tested by professional car magazines. In monday maybe i can check this what have gsxr tell me. Best Regards !

 

[Konradwro]

Today we was on carwash

 

[Konradwro]

Hello! And now are you ready for the rumbie ? Any News for all people, raises more question than answers…
1) number of my crankcase is 119 011 24 01 like on picture
If i good understand that should have been 100x100 piston



2) if I managed to measure correctly, the cylinder stroke is about 90 mm, I did not have accurate tools

3) modified e50 amg probably has a different EC number on the rating sticker, the later one is a sticker that I found on with e60amg



4) i have the same sticker with spark plugs like this:


5) My car (ME1.0) was produced withouth cat, there is the proof:


6) Anybody have a info about this SA Number
?

And i have made more acceleration test:

Best Regard Konrad

 

[gsxr]

Hello! And now are you ready for the rumbie ? Any News for all people, raises more question than answers…
1) number of my crankcase is 119 011 24 01 like on picture

That is an open-deck block and is 99.9999% likely to be 5.0L displacement (E50).

If i good understand that should have been 100x100 piston

Those dimensions are for cylinder liners, not the cylinder bore itself.

2) if I managed to measure correctly, the cylinder stroke is about 90 mm, I did not have accurate tools

The stroke should be either 85mm or 95mm, you'll need more accurate measurements.

5) My car (ME1.0) was produced withouth cat, there is the proof:

Cool! That is interesting.

 

[Konradwro]

That is an open-deck block and is 99.9999% likely to be 5.0L displacement (E50).




Those dimensions are for cylinder liners, not the cylinder bore itself.




The stroke should be either 85mm or 95mm, you'll need more accurate measurements.



Cool! That is interesting.

I have bought the valve cover gaskets for my MB in mercedes dealer, when i give the guy the number of gasket they say me that system said this gaskets is not for my car (1190160821) and for me something interesting was that the valve cover on passanger side is made by amg, and on driver side was normal mercedes cover. It is normal ?

 

[gsxr]

I have bought the valve cover gaskets for my MB in mercedes dealer, when i give the guy the number of gasket they say me that system said this gaskets is not for my car (1190160821)

Valve cover gasket kits are part numbers 119-010-23-30 and 119-010-24-30 for your M119.98x engine with ME 1.0 injection.

Part # 1190160821 doesn't exist in the EPC, but appears to supercede to 119-010-14-30 which is for older M119.97x engines. If your parts guy said this is not correct for your car, he is right... you need #23 and #24 gaskets noted above.

and for me something interesting was that the valve cover on passanger side is made by amg, and on driver side was normal mercedes cover. It is normal ?

Now that is a mystery! I have no idea why the valve cover is different. Part number HWA-119-016-01-05 doesn't appear in the EPC but this is likely a casting number. The right valve cover does have a unique HWA- part number, HWA-119-010-01-30. Would be nice to compare this to a stock valve cover and figure out why AMG did this!

 

[Konradwro]

Valve cover gasket kits are part numbers 119-010-23-30 and 119-010-24-30 for your M119.98x engine with ME 1.0 injection.

Part # 1190160821 doesn't exist in the EPC, but appears to supercede to 119-010-14-30 which is for older M119.97x engines. If your parts guy said this is not correct for your car, he is right... you need #23 and #24 gaskets noted above.

I bought the gaskets which i

Now that is a mystery! I have no idea why the valve cover is different. Part number HWA-119-016-01-05 doesn't appear in the EPC but this is likely a casting number. The right valve cover does have a unique HWA- part number, HWA-119-010-01-30. Would be nice to compare this to a stock valve cover and figure out why AMG did this!

I order this which i have before with new Numbers and the gaskets are compatibile with my car… i Think the valve cover is modified on the oil infusion, because i look in this part without hwa and they have a longer oil filler, which i have, normally the engine hood can’t clouse. About .970… a lot of parts which i should use by my car have description in epc 960, 970, 974…

 

[Konradwro]

I bought the gaskets which i

I order this which i have before with new Numbers and the gaskets are compatibile with my car… i Think the valve cover is modified on the oil infusion, because i look in this part without hwa and they have a longer oil filler, which i have, normally the engine hood can’t clouse. About .970… a lot of parts which i should use by my car have description in epc 960, 970, 974…

Here i have some list of parts which should be compatible with my car. Sorry for quality, but my phone is damage

 

[Markus-MD]

E50 Right Side Valvecover has the Hole for Oil on an other place.Normal M119 has the hole more over the Camshaft and E50 Has this over the chain.The Reason was into a W210 i dont know maybe a Styling Gag or ??And so the Cover has an HWA Number .And now you came better on this place too refuling Oil inside,!!Realy

 

[gsxr]

E50 Right Side Valvecover has the Hole for Oil on an other place.Normal M119 has the hole more over the Camshaft and E50 Has this over the chain.

That is right! I completely forgot about the relocated oil fill hole.

The Reason was into a W210 i dont know maybe a Styling Gag or ??And so the Cover has an HWA Number.

This is because the airbox was moved forward substantially, to clear the firewall on the 210 chassis. This interfered with the normal oil fill hole location, so AMG had to move it forward also - now located over the chain, as you explained above.

 

[lowman]

Ohhh..im abit late to the party here i see Congrats on awesome car The E60 engine would have "AMG" stamped ,just below where the stamped engine number is,in front of the engine. Which again means,this engine in question,is not an e60.

 

[lowman]

Unfortunately Mercedes did not provide any definite way to prove 6.0L engine displacement on the 210.072 chassis with code 957. Look at the engine block stamps, and see if there is anything showing 6.0L. You can also look at the block casting numbers, if it's an open-deck block, it's definitely 5.0L displacement. If closed-deck, it might be 6.0L.

Not correct.They did provide a definite way to check it. In front of the engine block..where the engine number is stamped,,the 6.0 liter engine has AMG stampings just below the engine number.

 

[gsxr]

Not correct.They did provide a definite way to check it. In front of the engine block..where the engine number is stamped,,the 6.0 liter engine has AMG stampings just below the engine number.

Uh... that's exactly what I said?



To clarify, what I meant was there is no way to tell from the VIN, if the engine is 5.0L vs 6.0L without looking at the engine block. There's nothing in the datacard.

 

[lowman]

Uh... that's exactly what I said?

View attachment 211887

To clarify, what I meant was there is no way to tell from the VIN, if the engine is 5.0L vs 6.0L without looking at the engine block. There's nothing in the datacard.

It was not excactly what you said..but you kinda said it..so clarification is a good thing