Was there, a 3.2 litre, AMG M104.980?

[DLL]

Hi all,
I'm dealing with someone long distance. They claim they have a Head, from a 3.2 litre Japanese AMG Engine. For clarity, this is the early M104, with CIS injection and a distributor. As yet, they have not provided any castings, serial numbers etc.
I know of the 3.4 and 3.6, but cannot find anything on a 3.2 of this era.
I have a spare 3.0 engine I'm thinking of rebuilding (for my 92 300CE), wondering if this would provide anything extra over stock.
He's not giving it away though.
Anyone ever heard of this?
Thanks

 

[2phast]

The CIS M104 built by AMG was 3.4l. Never seen a 3.2l version, only the M103 built by AMG was 3.2l. There were no 3.6l AMG version of the M104 in CIS FWIW.

 

[DLL]

The CIS M104 built by AMG was 3.4l. Never seen a 3.2l version, only the M103 built by AMG was 3.2l. There were no 3.6l AMG version of the M104 in CIS FWIW.

Thanks.
I did hear of a 3.2 amg, possibly, in another conversation. It's kinda vague though. If it exists, there was about a 20hp difference from the stock 3.0, which I expect would be from displacement rather than magic in the cylinder head alone.
So, all that said, I would probably get more bang for the buck simply tweaking the stock engine, if I rebuild it.
The guy with the head, wants $1000 for it, no proof of AMG, and unknown condition.

 

[TerryA]

Personally, I would believe 2phast has the correct information. He has a lot of knowledge on the early AMG builds. Notice his handle “AMG Professor”

Don’t waste your money.

 

[DLL]

Personally, I would believe 2phast has the correct information. He has a lot of knowledge on the early AMG builds. Notice his handle “AMG Professor”

Don’t waste your money.

Thanks.
That's, in a roundabout way, the conclusion I'd come to

 

[weide1]

The CIS M104 built by AMG was 3.4l. Never seen a 3.2l version, only the M103 built by AMG was 3.2l. There were no 3.6l AMG version of the M104 in CIS FWIW.

 

[DLL]

Just for interest. The owner supplied me the VIN of the car he says the head came from. (I don't have any head numbers etc yet). One (and only one) VIN Decoder suggests it could have been a 3.4.
That said, it's still too big a gamble for $1000. My guess is the extra power of the 3.4 was mostly from the extra displacement.

 

[weide1]

The 3.4 head (91.5 mm bore) and the 3.0 stroke (80.2 mm) would make it 3164 cm³.

Therefore a 3.2 104.980 AMG would not surprise me.
Since several combinations exist. To name just a few.
RennTech made a 92 x 84 = 3350 cm³.
Wolfgang Lohoff WL-Motorsport 92 x 94.5 = 3769 cm³.
Oettinger 90 x 94.5 = 3607 cm³.
Hagmann 92 x 85 = 3390 cm³.

 

[DLL]

The 3.4 head (91.5 mm bore) and the 3.0 stroke (80.2 mm) would make it 3164 cm³.

Therefore a 3.2 104.980 AMG would not surprise me.
Since several combinations exist. To name just a few.
RennTech made a 92 x 84 = 3350 cm³.
Wolfgang Lohoff WL-Motorsport 92 x 94.5 = 3769 cm³.
Oettinger 90 x 94.5 = 3607 cm³.
Hagmann 92 x 85 = 3390 cm³.

That's really interesting. I didn't think the head contributed to extra displacement, thought all in the block.
So, IF this is a legit 3.4 head, that could work as you described? Mating it to a 3.0 block getting 3.2.
IF legit, AMG also used their own cams.
Hmmm.
(I still won't gamble $1000 on a maybe though - maybe a couple hundred if he gets tired of looking at it)

 

[DLL]

Further to this discussion, my spare engine is from a 91 300SL (M104.981).
Some reading suggests that had a slight power bump over the W124 M104.980

 

[gsxr]

So, IF this is a legit 3.4 head, that could work as you described? Mating it to a 3.0 block getting 3.2.

Displacement is based on bore+stroke. A different head will not change displacement.

IF legit, AMG also used their own cams.

Correct - typically, AMG engines have AMG camshafts, and the cams are generally marked/stamped/cast with "AMG" somewhere.

 

[DLL]

Displacement is based on bore+stroke. A different head will not change displacement

That's what I thought

 

[DLL]

Correct - typically, AMG engines have AMG camshafts, and the cams are generally marked/stamped/cast with "AMG" somewhere

If it was much cheaper, I'd take that gamble



V8 - well, I have an E420 and a 500SL. This 300CE - is a Sportline, and is in the queue to get a 6-speed manual swap, roughly in the next month. It corners like it's on rails, I'd like to keep it's balance. The manual will really wake it up I think. So now, just thinking ahead to next steps.

 

[weide1]

That's really interesting. I didn't think the head contributed to extra displacement, thought all in the block.

My apologies. Now my lack of technical awareness shows. So a cylinder head has nothing to do with the bore of the cylinder.

 

[weide1]

Further to this discussion, my spare engine is from a 91 300SL (M104.981).
Some reading suggests that had a slight power bump over the W124 M104.980

Yes. 170 over 162 kW. I've seen 172 kW for this AMG W124. And rpm reveals it's 104.980.

 

[DLL]

Yes. 170 over 162 kW. I've seen 172 kW for this AMG W124. And rpm reveals it's 104.980.

Further reading suggests roughly another 10hp in the 300SL version over the 300CE, due to a better flowing Cat, and possibly a different intake cam.