ASR / ETA issues on S500 - codes read

[JC220]

Hi All,

OK all suggestions and input here would really be appreciated. You may be familiar with my 1995 S500 C140 Coupe which I bought as a non runner (many years non running) and just got the replacement rebuilt motor installed and running. Still a project car but I want to iron out issues now towards spring when I intend to put it back on the road.

The ETA was on the car when I bought it as a claimed recent £400 rebuilt unit in the UK. Both the upper and lower engine wiring harnesses were also pro re-wired in Poland by the PO and they do appear to be well done and no issues that I can see.

The ETA is dead. I tried the re-learn procedure but nothing. When the ignition is turned on it makes one very short and abrupt motion and goes dead with no noises being emitted at all.

I did buy and fit another known good (Claim by seller) EGAS and no change. I do not have a spare w140 ETA with late style plug. I need to buy an updated spare anyway and obviously to try in the car.

It now starts up and seems to run fine albeit there is no cooling system installed so I can only run it for a few seconds. It will be fit to run normally next week when all back together.

I have just been out and hooked my star onto the Coupe tonight for the first time. After deleting the old historic codes and going into each module again after a start-up and short running spell of 10 seconds here is what I found;



LH:
008 Camshaft position sensor signal L5/1 not recognised (Weird)
017 CAN: No reception from [E-GAS] N4/1. N4/3. N4/4


EZ1 [EZL]:
017 Crankshaft position sensor L5
018 Magnets for crank shaft position sensor L5 not recognised
(Very strange since I KNOW both magnets are in their place correctly and present) Gixer?


GM / BM:
No faults stored - however
Looking in the Actual values for EZ1 CAN receptions were all ticked as OK Except CAN reception from ASR which was a fail.


EFP [E-GAS]
048: Set value potentiometer, potentiometer monitoring M16/1r1 (ETA ISSUE?) This value also stays pegged in live data whilst m16/1R2 DOES change
080 Stop Lamp Switch S9/1 (Verified with live data that the throttle switches both are working - odd)

ASR
030 CAN No reception from [E-GAS] N4/1 or fault in [E-GAS]



Avery similar set of codes is showing in this thread by @LWB250

ASR & Limp Home Mode Issues

ETA appears to have cured that car....

What do you guys think?

 

[gsxr]

Based on codes, it kinda looks like your E-GAS module may be flaky, or there is an issue with the CAN wiring between modules. Both the LH and ASR modules are complaining they can't talk to E-GAS over CAN. Do you have a different LH and ASR module to pop in for grins? Also, is the E-GAS module in the car the "correct" number for the chassis? EPC makes it appear to be A1405457132 or A1405457232. (?)

LH code 8 is weird.
EZL code 18 *might* be cured by adding a 0.5mm shim under the sensor, there's a TSB on this.
E-GAS codes seem to indicate an ETA issue.
ASR code 30 is a generic code that shows up pretty much any time limp mode is triggered.

After clearing all codes, but before re-starting the engine, what happens when you check codes again? Do they remain cleared, or do some codes return just by cycling the ignition, without starting the engine?

 

[JC220]

Based on codes, it kinda looks like your E-GAS module may be flaky, or there is an issue with the CAN wiring between modules. Both the LH and ASR modules are complaining they can't talk to E-GAS over CAN. Do you have a different LH and ASR module to pop in for grins? Also, is the E-GAS module in the car the "correct" number for the chassis? EPC makes it appear to be A1405457132 or A1405457232. (?)

LH code 8 is weird.
EZL code 18 *might* be cured by adding a 0.5mm shim under the sensor, there's a TSB on this.
E-GAS codes seem to indicate an ETA issue.
ASR code 30 is a generic code that shows up pretty much any time limp mode is triggered.

After clearing all codes, but before re-starting the engine, what happens when you check codes again? Do they remain cleared, or do some codes return just by cycling the ignition, without starting the engine?

Thanks for your advice Dave - the E Gas in the car is the correct one per VIN yes. It was one I bought just a couple of days ago. The old unit I couldn't even read the number on. But I may put that back in just to re-test tomorrow night.

I dont have a full set of modules for this car unless my spare 500E 124 LH one will fit... but I am in the process just now of finding the other full set of modules for this S500 so you are right it would be nice to have them to try also.

The CAN Error is interesting. I did pop all modules out and made sure they were fully seated back in. Plugs and wiring looked clean but I will double check and clean these on saturday anyway - it cant hurt any.

The crank magnet errors are strange for sure. Watching the live data there is no issue with the crank speed sensor it is operating just fine and as I said the magnets are there for sure I knew to check that. The shim I may add as you suggest.

I will try clearing the codes again tomorrow night and not starting the engine just to check the last suggestion Dave. I will also slot the original E gas back in to see if the identical codes are generated with it.

The ASR is the only warning lamp staying on. The rest all light up as normal, srs flashes and goes out again as normal.

 

[LWB250]

For what it's worth, everything on my ETA checked out OK in diagnostics except for the "030 CAN No reception from [E-GAS] N4/1 or fault in [E-GAS]" error, but the feedback potentiometer was bad in that it was intermittent, according to the rebuilder. The ETA I had was a factory remanufactured unit that was installed in 2009, I believe. I don't recall how many miles it had on it, but I think it was a relatively low number.

The rebuilder said that the feedback potentiometers were a weak point on this ETA. He replaces them with a new potentiometer of his design that has more robust components.

That seemed to do the trick, as once it was installed the car ran well.

Dan

 

[JC220]

Thanks LWB250

OK I have some work to do. With electrical cleaner, Star, a multimeter and the attached PDF I want to do more testing later. I will report back in due course

 

[JC220]

SOLVED!

I thought about this one all day.... and came up with my own testing theory on an m119 ETA. I used the spare ETA I have, a 9v battery and multimeter and determined how to test one of these and the potentiometers in about 5 mins. Works a charm. With that dialled in I had a hunch about that rebuilt ETA in my S500 but had to take it out of the car to see if I was onto something.

Bingo!



OK not obvious but the little fork potentiometer arm is in the wrong place. The re-builder was not careful enough to make sure this was located correctly. Thus why the value on M16/1r1 was pegged. I checked my JC220 ETA test procedure and it checked out the same OHM specs on both pots.

Plugged it back in, did the re-learn procedure and it was working very well then except if I paused – at any position. My foot was on the throttle – limp mode should not be happening..... Tried the throttle pedal a few more times and got it to where the ETA did not go into limp mode when I paused the butterfly. Worked perfectly for 3 – 5 mins of sitting waggling the arm at the side and watching the butterfly follow with zest.

I strongly suspect my throttle pedal switch is flaky and needs inspection, removal and cleaning or new replacement. Then I will re-test and actually start the car up to see that it is happy. Fingers crossed!

So far when turning the ignition on and all hooked up Star is showing ZERO fault codes now in the car. Live data also shows the ASR Can Bus is online again.



Strange as heck but there you have it.

 

[JC220]

This is a short demo video of the previously dead ETA working on the car.

Note that for this test you must have the throttle pedal depressed whilst moving lever or limp mode will trigger and shut it down. Secondly the butterfly will not fully open - this is normal and is due to the ECU not seeing an RPM signal from the engine.

 

[French02chris]

SOLVED!

I thought about this one all day.... and came up with my own testing theory on an m119 ETA. I used the spare ETA I have, a 9v battery and multimeter and determined how to test one of these and the potentiometers in about 5 mins. Works a charm. With that dialled in I had a hunch about that rebuilt ETA in my S500 but had to take it out of the car to see if I was onto something.

Bingo!

View attachment 92373

OK not obvious but the little fork potentiometer arm is in the wrong place. The re-builder was not careful enough to make sure this was located correctly. Thus why the value on M16/1r1 was pegged. I checked my JC220 ETA test procedure and it checked out the same OHM specs on both pots.

Plugged it back in, did the re-learn procedure and it was working very well then except if I paused – at any position. My foot was on the throttle – limp mode should not be happening..... Tried the throttle pedal a few more times and got it to where the ETA did not go into limp mode when I paused the butterfly. Worked perfectly for 3 – 5 mins of sitting waggling the arm at the side and watching the butterfly follow with zest.

I strongly suspect my throttle pedal switch is flaky and needs inspection, removal and cleaning or new replacement. Then I will re-test and actually start the car up to see that it is happy. Fingers crossed!

So far when turning the ignition on and all hooked up Star is showing ZERO fault codes now in the car. Live data also shows the ASR Can Bus is online again.

View attachment 92372

Strange as heck but there you have it.

SO, did you replace your throttle pedal switch and did it fix your issue??

 

[JC220]

SO, did you replace your throttle pedal switch and did it fix your issue??

Yes I installed a new throttle pedal switch and that cured the intermittent fault code for that item.

As I said the failure mode appears to be the worse itself breaking where it flexes. So worth investigating although a new switch is not overly expensive.