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The Mercedes-Benz 500E Is the Original Porsche Sedan - Doug DeMuro
- Thread starter Harv
- Start date
Sounds like Doug needs to drive a proper, sorted 036 at speeds north of 130mph or so and then see if his opinion changes at all. Seems he's mostly focused on low-speed handling and likes deep seat bolsters.
Oh, and MB didn't "have this idea to stick a V8 in an E-class and see what happened". It was the MB response to the M5. Doug! Did you spend any time on this forum before producing that video?
Oh, and MB didn't "have this idea to stick a V8 in an E-class and see what happened". It was the MB response to the M5. Doug! Did you spend any time on this forum before producing that video?
Will be interesting to see what happens on the upcoming BaT auction for this car:
gregclymer
This is my one owner 1992 Mercedes 500E in Spruce Green(Malachite) with the tropical green undertone over Parchment interior with just over 126k original miles. @dougdemuro will give it a Doug Score tomorrow on his you tube channel. Be sure to give him a follow and subscribe to his channel for the most informative and comprehensive review of hundreds of unique cars. This car will soon be offered for sale on @bringatrailer so get ready to bid. It’s accident free, I have over $15k in recent receipts, and the whole car has been gone through to make it as close to the feeling of a new car as possible. Thank you to @elitefinish for the original paint restoration and interior cleaning. The car is stunning in person. And a big thank you to Kevin, Wes, and the team at Elite Finish for all the leg work and help to get the car where it is today. Thanks @cardork
give him a follow.
Hey @iamted7 time to shoot this
This is my one owner 1992 Mercedes 500E in Spruce Green(Malachite) with the tropical green undertone over Parchment interior with just over 126k original miles. @dougdemuro will give it a Doug Score tomorrow on his you tube channel. Be sure to give him a follow and subscribe to his channel for the most informative and comprehensive review of hundreds of unique cars. This car will soon be offered for sale on @bringatrailer so get ready to bid. It’s accident free, I have over $15k in recent receipts, and the whole car has been gone through to make it as close to the feeling of a new car as possible. Thank you to @elitefinish for the original paint restoration and interior cleaning. The car is stunning in person. And a big thank you to Kevin, Wes, and the team at Elite Finish for all the leg work and help to get the car where it is today. Thanks @cardork
give him a follow.Hey @iamted7 time to shoot this
I´m so far i would give jail time for that...
Doug is right though - the w124 500E is not a sports sedan and it is not terribly athletic, especially compared to modern AMG E class cars and the like.
But Doug pointing this out is likely a result of his age - he is a bit too young to remember what Mercedes Benzes were like in the 80s. They were staid, not particularly exciting nor engaging, but went down the road with a certain presence, a certain stateliness, a je ne sais quois that was unmatched by anything else.... either back then OR today.
You have to be able to appreciate the regal way 70s/80s Mercedes Benzes drove - slow steering and deliberate suspension motions somewhat biased towards comfort - to appreciate the 500E, which was to take all those modest-man-of-ample-means-but-not-overtly-displayed qualities and turn it up to 11 with a haul-ass-engine.
If you grew up in a more extroverted generation where the focus is on displaying your charisma, your enthusiasm, your means .... with outlandish styling, badges galore, social media everywhere .... then the ideas that the 500E represents is not for you.
The 500E is for people like Harry (of Harry’s garage). It is not really for the ritalin-generation.
But Doug pointing this out is likely a result of his age - he is a bit too young to remember what Mercedes Benzes were like in the 80s. They were staid, not particularly exciting nor engaging, but went down the road with a certain presence, a certain stateliness, a je ne sais quois that was unmatched by anything else.... either back then OR today.
You have to be able to appreciate the regal way 70s/80s Mercedes Benzes drove - slow steering and deliberate suspension motions somewhat biased towards comfort - to appreciate the 500E, which was to take all those modest-man-of-ample-means-but-not-overtly-displayed qualities and turn it up to 11 with a haul-ass-engine.
If you grew up in a more extroverted generation where the focus is on displaying your charisma, your enthusiasm, your means .... with outlandish styling, badges galore, social media everywhere .... then the ideas that the 500E represents is not for you.
The 500E is for people like Harry (of Harry’s garage). It is not really for the ritalin-generation.
Nope. AFAICT it has not been listed for sale anywhere, yet, publicly. Someone will need to contact the seller to get the VIN.
More of the same bullshit propagated. Some people will never learn the facts.
I'm sure this car will get well-Trolled on BaT.
I’m not so sure about this one either, JLAA. I’m starting to think you don’t drive your 500E hard enough. Compared to my E46M and W220 S55 this thing holds its own quite well. And every now and then I get inspired to flog em all a bit. It’s just so composed you almost forget what it’s doing. My $.02 anyway.
Admittedly yours may be too nice to toss around...
maw
I’m not so sure about this one either, JLAA. I’m starting to think you don’t drive your 500E hard enough. Compared to my E46M and W220 S55 this thing holds its own quite well. And every now and then I get inspired to flog em all a bit. It’s just so composed you almost forget what it’s doing. My $.02 anyway.
Admittedly yours may be too nice to toss around...
maw
Perhaps guilty as charged.
The last time I pushed the car hard several years ago, I drove it here in the screenshot below: There are all hairpin turns, like the fastest you'll get for 45 minutes is maaaaaaaybe 35 mph. I had just driven my 911 here the week before, and I realized that the E500E royally sucks for this kind of road. For this kind of road, the E500E is waaaay too big, has too much body roll, doesn't have a way to get traction down (no torque-biasing-differential or conventional plate-based-limited-slip), doesn't have enough gears in its gear stack, and has no way of *quickly* manually selecting gears. It has plenty of power but no way to use it for this road below.Granted, the week before I had just driven the road in anger --- in a 1000 lbs lighter car, with 6 speeds in a manual gearbox with REALLY SHORT GEARS (aftermarket - redline in 2nd at 61mph), a torque-biasing-differential, a very stiff suspension, and 265-section rear tires (as opposed to my 500E which has 275-section rear tires)....
That's when I realized that the E500E is not a sports-sedan built for these kinds of roads. The E500E is a cruise-missile. The slow steering, well damped (and comfortable) ride, the v8 torque for days, and the lack of a lockup-torque converter all make for going mach-5 a relaxed-non-event, cruise missile style. Doing Vmax in an aircooled 911 feels fast, frenzied, frenetic! Doing Vmax in an E500E feels like drinking whiskey and cream as you sit in your well-upholstered Eames lounger while wearing a carefully fitted black cashmere sweater, white oxford shirt, and matching black slim-fit jeans spun from Japanese denim ..... while listening to Dre and Snoop Dogg on an absurdly expensive hifi system(!)
. In my travels I have realized that certain German people seem to be able to pull off this contradiction quite well. 
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Never driven an E46 M3 but the S55 is not a sports car. It's a fast car (very fast car). They're both too heavy to be considered as sports cars.
The key word was sports SEDAN... say it with me kids, “SEDAN.”
Sedans are not sports cars and any idiot (perhaps every idiot) knows this. But the E5E is most certainly an overly qualified sports SEDAN. Sure, an E39M and an E9XM will give it a run for its money, but you’ll have a hard time naming another SEDAN that will. It’s certainly is in the top 10 for sports sedans.
The road JLAA points out is probably best run with FGS and using only gears 1-3. Like Klink once told me, “slap that gear shifter around like a red head stepchild.” My apologies to all red headed step children. For my liking, 2 and 3 through the twisties is more than adequate, but my car has FGS, limited slip and Koni adjustable yellows up front. The brakes are the weak spot in those runs.
And most importantly, I’m not comparing it to a 911. The S55 is certainly too big, but it still tops the charts for sports sedans. You just have to be comfortable letting the rear end slide a bit and feathering the throttle. Takes work...
maw
Sedans are not sports cars and any idiot (perhaps every idiot) knows this. But the E5E is most certainly an overly qualified sports SEDAN. Sure, an E39M and an E9XM will give it a run for its money, but you’ll have a hard time naming another SEDAN that will. It’s certainly is in the top 10 for sports sedans.
The road JLAA points out is probably best run with FGS and using only gears 1-3. Like Klink once told me, “slap that gear shifter around like a red head stepchild.” My apologies to all red headed step children. For my liking, 2 and 3 through the twisties is more than adequate, but my car has FGS, limited slip and Koni adjustable yellows up front. The brakes are the weak spot in those runs.
And most importantly, I’m not comparing it to a 911. The S55 is certainly too big, but it still tops the charts for sports sedans. You just have to be comfortable letting the rear end slide a bit and feathering the throttle. Takes work...
maw
That’s a fair point. But dimensionally speaking, it’s pretty close to the E5E, I think a little larger and heavier than the C63, both of which are in that top 10 for sports sedans. Along with the Audi S6 and S8. A buddy has an E9XM3 Sedan with a supercharger fitted ... INSANE, and feels completely factory.
My only point here is that sports sedans are themselves an oxymoronic rare breed, which is what makes them so special. Like, there’s actually a “Sport” handling button in my 2-ton+ S55. That’s an anathema in any other car that size. Sports what? Really?! Yes, really. We should appreciate that breed for what it is, rather than compare them to sports cars (or airplanes.)
And in that breed, no one else is sleeping on the E5E. Except E5E owners? I guess prophets are truly without honor only at home.
maw
I think there are two separate genres of "sports sedan" that separate BMW and others from MB, at least with the E5E.
The BMW M5 is a high-performance sedan with more of a sporting and performance focus. It's designed more for performance driving, twisties and perhaps for weekend track jaunts for those inclined.
The E500E is a high-performance sedan with more of a luxury and performance focus. It's designed more for long-distance, comfortable, fast and incognito travel.
I would never call an R129 a "sports" car. It's a luxury roadster with a nod to sportiness. But it does not have clear, direct "sports car" intentions as intended by MB.
Neither does the E500E.
The BMW M5 is a high-performance sedan with more of a sporting and performance focus. It's designed more for performance driving, twisties and perhaps for weekend track jaunts for those inclined.
The E500E is a high-performance sedan with more of a luxury and performance focus. It's designed more for long-distance, comfortable, fast and incognito travel.
I would never call an R129 a "sports" car. It's a luxury roadster with a nod to sportiness. But it does not have clear, direct "sports car" intentions as intended by MB.
Neither does the E500E.
Flog that S55 around in Manual mode with Sport on and ESP off, and you’ll confuse it for a sports something. Dyno mode will scare the shit out of you. Well, only if you want to live. Jus’sayin’
maw
PS. I just watched this video, and I agree with what’s been said already. I also guess maybe I’m spoiled, as I haven’t spent much time in any stock E5E. You know, with 16” wheels and no suspension alterations. Mine immediately got 18’s with modern rubber compounds and RENNtech had already been through the suspension. So maybe that’s what he’s talking about. Other than that I think he’s out to lunch with all his comments about how the car drives, except the transmission. That extra low gear really changes things.
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You know the old saying..."any press is good press". Most of my buddies, that are car guys, don't know the 500E and I was one of those people until 2012. even as a life long car enthusiast. I find myself telling/educating others about the 500E. I hope that videos by DeMuro and Hoovie, will let others know. In fact, after this video was posted my boss asked me if I saw it, which tells me videos like this increase awareness. I'm just happy to see people talking about this car and its merits and weaknesses vs. it being forgotten. I still enjoy my car and dream of Sauber C9ing it with twin turbos.
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I thought Doug’s review both sucks and blows. This guy just sees the E500Es as old car technology. He does not appreciate anything about it. Starting with the Recaro seats “not supportive”. Obviously he likes to drive the crap out of his E63 and expected a similar experience in a 500E. He is into high tech and not looking back. Based on his grading he was struggling to give it a 50% grade.
I consider the review a “Kick in the Nuts” to the Owner. I would be pissed if I was getting ready to sell this car on BaT. In fact I would delay the auction at least 6 months.
LoL
I consider the review a “Kick in the Nuts” to the Owner. I would be pissed if I was getting ready to sell this car on BaT. In fact I would delay the auction at least 6 months.
LoL
I started to write that he is too young to appreciate the car but I don’t think that is correct....
I think the issue is that he lacks the background to appreciate fine mechanical engineering .... as opposed to appreciating an engaging user experience.
Translation: “he is too young to appreciate the car.”
Anymore, if you’re under 45, you don’t appreciate “fine” anything. What you have in its place is an engaging user experience. Unless of course you happen to have had a father who appreciated fine things, in which case you know the difference. This last sentence I didn’t appreciate until my kids got old enough to show me they appreciate subtlety, which is of course the province of the fine.
My $.02... I might be a horrible translator though.
maw
In current techie terms... EaaS (Everything as a Service).
More folks just want to buy the ability to drive something, rather than own said vehicle. Definite shift in viewpoint from a few decades ago.
Think about how there has been a shift in thought about car keys. I would never complain that a w124 uses a metal key, but would speculate that to Doug D this is a demerit and inconvenience. I was very happy my 95 C36 has a normal key that can still be bought cheaply most anywhere.
The thing with Doug's review is that I doubt he believes it. He briefly owned a 500E before turning it for a quick and good profit. He said at the time he preferred his W210 E55, but that he nevertheless appreciated the 500E. He even happened to be walking past my house one day while I was washing my car. He stopped and talked about it for five mins or so. It was clear he respected the model. But his business is to get clicks. I guess he figured he could get more views by knocking the hero down a peg or two.
I have to confess I only watched about a minute of Doug's review. Because I'm a pedant. It annoys me when English speakers try to say Porsche the "right" way yet they say porsh-ah. It has an e at the end, not an a!!! And they only try to say Porsche in the native tongue. They don't, for example, say Subaru the way a Japanese speaker does. Or Mercedes for that matter.
of course, I am the first to admit I have a tin ear so maybe they are saying it correctly and I just get annoyed because I'm an idiot.
of course, I am the first to admit I have a tin ear so maybe they are saying it correctly and I just get annoyed because I'm an idiot.
You cannot possibly be an idiot if... you think you might be an idiot.
I dunno where Mr. Muro fits, although in his video he seems to think himself too clever for idiocy. I still think his review is out to lunch — the seats are one of the outlandishly excellent features of this car. AND I think he’s too young to appreciate a car that doesn’t need 9 gears of paddle shifts for the Ritalin and caffeine generation to pound like gaming joysticks, to go with an obscenely loud exhaust, all in the name of, ummm... “engaging user experience”.
This car is expressly and vehemently not that. It doesn’t make him an idiot. A certain smug cluelessness might, but I don’t know him well enough for that. He might just be wrong about the car. I watch the kids butchering the 55 and E46M exhausts chasing that user experience, and it reminds me that I must be an idiot for not doing the same.
maw
I dunno where Mr. Muro fits, although in his video he seems to think himself too clever for idiocy. I still think his review is out to lunch — the seats are one of the outlandishly excellent features of this car. AND I think he’s too young to appreciate a car that doesn’t need 9 gears of paddle shifts for the Ritalin and caffeine generation to pound like gaming joysticks, to go with an obscenely loud exhaust, all in the name of, ummm... “engaging user experience”.
This car is expressly and vehemently not that. It doesn’t make him an idiot. A certain smug cluelessness might, but I don’t know him well enough for that. He might just be wrong about the car. I watch the kids butchering the 55 and E46M exhausts chasing that user experience, and it reminds me that I must be an idiot for not doing the same.
maw
**** me sideways if anyone cares about Doug Demuros scores when it comes to buying this classic machine.
Youtube people dont matter as much as they think they do. His opinion certainly wont change my mind if I was to buy one of these.
Why are you guys glorifying him?
Hes just a car nerd that reads car manuals and makes long videos talking about every feature of the car. Hes not no Carroll Shelby(rip), Chip Foose or whatever.
Remember....he is just a random person that made it on youtube ffs. Why does his opinion matter at all? He has no background to back up anything he says.
His score on any car is as valuable as mine and I give the 500E a 10 out of 10 in every category considering its age so there you go...you can bid high and have no concerns
Youtube people dont matter as much as they think they do. His opinion certainly wont change my mind if I was to buy one of these.
Why are you guys glorifying him?
Hes just a car nerd that reads car manuals and makes long videos talking about every feature of the car. Hes not no Carroll Shelby(rip), Chip Foose or whatever.
Remember....he is just a random person that made it on youtube ffs. Why does his opinion matter at all? He has no background to back up anything he says.
His score on any car is as valuable as mine and I give the 500E a 10 out of 10 in every category considering its age so there you go...you can bid high and have no concerns
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I guess you've never read my opinions about "Hoovy" in that thread.....
YouTuber buys 500E (Video - Hoovies Garage) | Off-Topic Discussions
One of my favorite car channels on YouTube, Hoovie's Garage, has a W124.036 in its future. Hoovie is a bit crazy, but in a good way. The kind of crazy we all might indulge in, circumstances permitting. He has a "hooptie fleet" of interesting vehicles that is frequently changing. The ones he...
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