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Electric car impact on fuel availabilty and pricing in future(?)

Jlaa, looking at some numbers, I am a little perplexed:

I have a 1995 S124 that I've owned since 2001. In that time I have put almost 300K miles on it and spent nearly $40K in gas alone. I paid $22.5K for it and have probably another $10K to $12K in maintenance and consumables...so roughly $75K.

In that time, you have had 3 Prius costing $72K plus gas, maintenance and consumables. I don't understand how you are saving money.
Because time = money, and saving time equals saving money. I didn't have to think about the 10K-12K and time associated with maintaining an aged car..... or more precisely, my spouse didn't while I was away on travel. My spouse didn't have to worry about M104 head gaskets or thinking about Zerex G05 in the cooling system or or or or ..... That saves on matrimonial-stress too, and, as well all know, the most expensive expense a man can incur is divorce. :) :)

I also saved a boatload of time = money by traveling in carpool lanes in those hybrids.

I also saved a boatload of time by parking by braille on any random city street with those hybrids. Shitty neighborhood? Fine. Jam car into a space where it's gonna get dinged? No problem. Not caring is the ultimate freedom.

Many people, when faced with a daily driver, just want something that is cheap, comfortable, and is disposable with minimal care and feeding.
 
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This is the exact reason I think EV's are the future. :)
Yeah. If it's a 25K EV I'd be happy to trash it on city streets and beat the piss out of it. Given that all EVs feel so similarly bland (instant electric torque --- no difference in "character" of the power generation like in gasoline engines) and are bland in that sense ....

I am not so willing if it's a 50K EV..... 😭
 
Yeah. If it's a 25K EV I'd be happy to trash it on city streets and beat the piss out of it.
Not so willing if it's a 50K EV..... 😭
But if that EV lasts 20 years, isn't it cheaper than 3 new hybrids?
The oldest Tesla Model S's are 10 years old now and show 10% to 15% battery degradation at most. Current models are probably much better...just sayin'.
 
But if that EV lasts 20 years, isn't it cheaper than 3 new hybrids?
The oldest Tesla Model S's are 10 years old now and show 10% to 15% battery degradation at most. Current models are probably much better...just sayin'.

My first Toyota died in a huge wreck.
My second Toyota died due to massive neglect and abuse at the hands of city streets and battery degradation - not anything mechanical
My third Toyota I still have.

Three EVs would have gone through the same super-fast aging process. Such is living in a highly congested and dense urban environment. Driving here is war and a constant chicken-game of "I care less than you do you #%%$@$$W!"

North San Diego County is nothing like living right in the middle of San Francisco.

@duuder, from NYC, understands...... 🤣
 
So, it's not necessarily about it saving you money. It's the freedom of having a disposable car in an environment that is abnormally harsh on cars. That I can understand.
 
So, it's not necessarily about it saving you money. It's the freedom of having a disposable car in an environment that is abnormally harsh on cars. That I can understand.
Yes, it is about saving money. 3x50K EV beater car/weapons is more expensive than 3x25K EV beater car weapons.
All cars used for daily transport in the middle of the city are beaters -- whether it's a Rivian, a Prius, a Taycan, or a RAV4.

There are no cars used for daily transport in the middle of city which are not beaters!
 
As an auto enthusiast, that makes me sad.
I have two neighbors with a Tesla EV Model 3 that they use as beaters for driving in the middle of the city. Both are auto enthusiasts.

Neighbor 1 - Grey Model 3 beater .... New-ish 911 cabriolet in the garage.
Neighbor 2 - White Model 3 beater parked outside..... '59 Corvette, w211 E55 AMG, 40th Anniversary 911 in the garage.

Luckily auto enthusiasm is still alive in the middle of the city .... but one just has to accept the fact that to do so requires owning beater(s).
 
after finding my 500E in 2016? I sold my Cadillac 3.6 CTS and bought a 2008 prius w/ 82k the same day. the city is punishing on cars and i wasnt going to leave the 500E parked on the streets for an extented amount of time.

i paid about $6800 for the prius (which was high) but it had the premium package which was nice if i was going to be dailying a plastic sh*t box. the prius had a numb driving experience and i get bullied in it every now and again, my mechanic even told me i aint gonna get any ass in the this car (i typically drive sport cars). i didnt care as i know what i have at home and frequently switch cars after 730pm and cruise w/ my nicer cars when the streets are more chill.

the pruis takes the brunt of the city life, it has 162k now and has been mostly maintenance free. i change the oil every 5k and just started to change the cvt fluid @ 155k. i put about 1200kmi a year on my 500E and my clk bs gets about 1500kmi

i wouldnt say i beat on the prius, the city and other drivers do all of that for me! its been a great little car! ive hauled 10' pieces of wood, dry wall, an engine, full lenth exhaust components, and ive even camped in my car. the hybrid battery pack is DIY now and cost about $1200 and takes an afternoon to replace. as long as the engine isnt burning oil or leaking, its going to run a real long time!

and if my current calculations are correct, on flat terrain ill get 499mi from full to empty averaging 42 miles p/h. im reminded daily on how ugly the car is by others but when im in my nicer cars i get the street cred but in the back of my mine I'm thinking "they dont know i daily a Toyota Prius".
 
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after finding my 500E in 2016? I sold my Cadillac 3.6 CTS and bought a 2008 prius w/ 82k the same day. the city is punishing on cars and i wasnt going to leave the 500E parked on the streets for an extented amount of time.

i paid about $6800 for the prius (which was high) but it had the premium package which was nice if i was going to be dailying a plastic sh*t box. the prius had a numb driving experience and i get bullied in it every now and again, my mechanic even told me i aint gonna get any ass in the this car (i typically drive sport cars). i didnt care as i know what i have at home and frequently switch cars after 730pm and cruise w/ my nicer cars when the streets are more chill.

the pruis takes the brunt of the city life, it has 162k now and has been mostly maintenance free. i change the oil every 5k and just started to change the cvt fluid @ 155k. i put about 1200kmi a year on my 500E and my clk bs gets about 1500kmi

i wouldnt say i beat on the prius, the city and other drivers do all of that for me! its been a great little car! ive hauled 10' pieces of wood, dry wall, an engine, full lenth exhaust components, and ive even camped in my car. the hybrid battery pack is DIY now and cost about $1200 and takes an afternoon to replace. as long as the engine isnt burning oil or leaking, its going to run a real long time!

and if my current calculations are correct, on flat terrain ill get 499mi from full to empty averaging 42 miles p/h. im reminded daily on how ugly the car is by others but when im in my nicer cars i get the street cred but in the back of my mine i think "they dont know i daily a Toyota Prius".
Love it!!!
This was my 2nd Toyota Prius. Bland and Boring and I got Bullied in it but it was CHEAP to run and took a ton of abuse and was basically a pickup truck.

IMG_6838.jpeg IMG_6839.jpeg
 
Meanwhile, in the UK:


:pc1:

1st Gear: Automakers ‘Moved On’ From Gas Power

Across Europe, automakers are preparing for the pivot away from gas-powered cars when a ban on their sale comes into force in 2035. That’s the same timeline being worked to in states like New York and California, when sales of new gas-powered cars will also be outlawed. But initially, the UK forged its own path and pledged to ban the sale of cars running on fossil fuels by 2030. However, unelected leader Rishi Sunak has now backtracked on several climate pledges, including the ban on new gas-powered cars.

The announcement to delay the ban until 2035, which came last week, has outraged automakers that were committed to this policy, according to a report from CNN. Now, companies like Nissan that were working towards the 2030 ban have condemned the UK’s climate targets.

According to an update shared by the Financial Times, Nissan boss Makoto Uchida said that the world needs to “move on” from running our cars on gasoline. He also added that the Japanese automaker “will never launch another engine-driven model in Europe,” the FT reports. According to the site:

“There’s no going back,” he said. “The world needs to move on from internal combustion engines.”

He referenced the delay announced last week and added: “[We] have a responsibility to be part of the solution and part of the eco system.”

Despite the UK’s decision to backtrack its policies, Nissan says it will still make the pivot to an entirely electric lineup across Europe by the end of the decade. So far, the company offers three EVs in Europe, including the Leaf hatchback, Aryia SUV and an all-electric Townstar compact van.


4th Gear: Europe Takes Another Look At Emissions Targets

Ahead of its 2035 ban on the sale of new gas-powered cars, lawmakers in the European Union are preparing to outline strict new emissions targets that internal combustion engined models must meet from 2025. However, the measures have proven controversial across the block and Europe has now unveiled a “watered down” version of the regulations, called Euro 7.

According to British outlet Autocar, the Euro 7 rules target non-CO2 pollutants, placing tight restrictions on the amount of nitrogen oxide, which is released by brake and tire wear, and carbon monoxide that gas-powered cars can emit. Autocar reports:

“The core aim is to make ICE as clean as possible, and to do that, EU7 will bring diesel and petrol engines under identical regulatory emissions limits for the first time,” said engineering firm Mahle Powertrain.

Legal output of carbon monoxide (CO) will be halved, while particle emissions will be reduced up to 30%, by including the smallest (10nm) size. Limits for oxides of nitrogen (NOx) hydrocarbons (HC) and total particulates remain the same as the latest EU6d regs, though, raising questions about the cost-effectiveness of EU7.

Currently, the new regulations are set to come into force in July 2025, after which point most large automakers will have to comply with the new rules. However, the EU has made exceptions to “low-volume, independent manufacturers.” Companies that sell fewer than 10,000 units across Europe will have until July 2030 to comply.
 
My worry is that they (the EU & US) will start to make running an ICE car almost impossible by jacking up prices on things like fuel, oil, parts and accessories.

How much will we be willing to pay to keep your ICE cars on the road?
The issue is that, not only that they are raising prices on fuel, oil but also on electricity. When they are all increased in value, then the foods, transportations and businesses is collapsing.

Additional to that, the uncertainty in economy is very big. The banks are collapsing too.
 
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I think Newsom should just double the tax on ICE cars in California to juice EV sales.

He just unilaterally did the same thing for guns there, to discourage sales. Because, you know, you should have to pay dearly to exercise your constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms.

Poll tax, anyone?
 
I think Newsom should just double the tax on ICE cars in California to juice EV sales.

He just unilaterally did the same thing for guns there, to discourage sales. Because, you know, you should have to pay dearly to exercise your constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms.

Poll tax, anyone?
Just think he could be our president some day.
 
The difference here is that early cars (arguably) had a number of significant advantages over the horse/buggy/carriage, with relatively few disadvantages. And at the time, the government wasn't forcing people to take their horse to the glue factory and buy a car, whether or not they wanted one.

:grouphug:
 
The difference here is that early cars (arguably) had a number of significant advantages over the horse/buggy/carriage, with relatively few disadvantages. And at the time, the government wasn't forcing people to take their horse to the glue factory and buy a car, whether or not they wanted one.

:grouphug:
Totally agree but it seems that so many young people don't even want to drive...so a self driving electric car is appealing to them. And like I've mentioned before, for daily driving, an electric car is just more convenient than a gas car. And in our modern society, convenience is everything.
 
So far I consider most of the EVs with a few exceptions an appliance just like a computer, a dishwasher or a washing machine. The masses will buy the cheapest one they can find and drive it into the ground. When it quits it will go to the wrecking yard.

They will have to pry my cold dead hands of of my ICE car’s steering wheel!:jono:
 
Totally agree but it seems that so many young people don't even want to drive...so a self driving electric car is appealing to them. And like I've mentioned before, for daily driving, an electric car is just more convenient than a gas car. And in our modern society, convenience is everything.
I don't understand the current trend of young people not wanting to drive. I'm curious if this is localized to cities or large suburban areas, and/or to certain states, or if it's a nationwide / worldwide phenomenon.
 
I don't understand the current trend of young people not wanting to drive. I'm curious if this is localized to cities or large suburban areas, and/or to certain states, or if it's a nationwide / worldwide phenomenon.
I have no answers, it’s just what I observe.
 

If you have an EV for business purposes, I wonder if people are also deducting the price of the chargers?

maw
I believe that the business owner can deduct gasoline as an expense if a car or truck is used for business but I am not a tax accountant.

I know in the construction business that a Contractor who has a fleet of trucks and equipment probably buys 200K+ of gasoline or diesel a year.
 
At least gas prices are down slightly in my area…

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Yay! 🥸
Ohhhh that’s an improvement! I literally just got Costco gasoline 15 minutes ago near SFO. I’m so surprised that pump gas is slightly more costly down south vs up here in the north. I would have thought that gasoline is most costly in car-hating SF Bay Area. 😵‍💫
 

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Yowza! Today’s price for ethanol-free in my neck of the Hinterlands. I filled up & outraced the rain clouds back to the garage.

I feel fortunate based on those posted West Coast prices.
The only place I can get ethanol-free gas is at marina gas docks on the Chesapeake, but it's around $5.00 a gallon. Typical fillup on the boat runs $500-700 depending on the price and how much I've been on the throttles.......
 
The only place I can get ethanol-free gas is at marina gas docks on the Chesapeake, but it's around $5.00 a gallon. Typical fillup on the boat runs $500-700 depending on the price and how much I've been on the throttles.......
500-700 a fillup! That is serious baller money. 😅
 
Great quote from the article above:

"Electric vehicles are a solution, not the solution. Classic cars and electric vehicles can co-exist.
The point here is not that classic cars are better for the environment than electric cars. The point here is that we need to start the conversation to demystify the concept that classics are terrible for the environment. The data shows, that's clearly not the case."

I still find it amusing that CO2 is still considered evil. Maybe plant more trees, which consume CO2?

:whistling2:
 
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