Electric car impact on fuel availabilty and pricing in future(?)

[ace10]

BTW, our etron GT was hauled off to the salvage auction yesterday...

With less than a day to go, the furious bidding action has driven the bid up to $10,600

https://www.copart.com/lot/40520774/2022-audi-e-tron-gt-prestige-va-fredericksburg

I was thinking it would fetch $25-30K, but my understanding of junked EVs is sorely lacking, apparently.

Copart has over 600 EV auctions running at the present time

https://www.copart.com/saleListResult/834/2024-02-13?location=Electric%20Vehicle%20Auction&saleDate=1707843600000&liveAuction=false&from=&yardNum=834

There's even a couple of Fisker Oceans and quite a few Lucids in there.

 

[PJmak]

Look at it this way.

Food industry. Some foods and snacks that were always Gluten Free were never marketed as GF and there was no obvious label on them that told you they are GF. This is because most people saw GF foods as not tasty or good.

Now, as GF is becoming more popular, those same foods(example potatoe chips) are clearly targeting that group of people and are being marketed as GF.

Same is with cars and anything else as you all know. You gotta give people what they want coz itll make you rich, and thats all that matters to these companies at the end of the day. Majority of the people here will not want electric cars. I think well get th ebest of both. Combustion engines will improve and be more efficient because those two will have to coexist.

You cant just pull the plug on this kinda stuff and change it overnight.

All this bashing of EVs right now is just a stunt from people who are shorting the EV market sector.

 

[ace10]

There's even a couple of Fisker Oceans and quite a few Lucids in there.

I just noticed that all five of the Lucids had front end impacts.
I'm guessing that's a direct result of 400 to 1200 instant HP with no corresponding improvement in these vehicles' ability to brake.

 

[RicardoD]

Compare and contrast that with my experience in North Providence last summer... sweltering heat, desperately needing a charge, but forced to "work with" some Dominican gentlemen who were providing protection to the EA chargers at the lovely Walmart.

When they put chargers in bad neighborhoods, bad things will happen.

"Nice car you got there, shame if anything happened to it while you were charging..."

 

[RicardoD]

I just started listening to this podcast from The Verge

Why EV adoption in the US has hit a roadblock with Nilay Patel
Decoder with Nilay Patel: Why EV adoption in the US has hit a roadblock on Apple Podcasts

My own guess is everyone has figured out the non-Tesla charging infrastructure sucks and all of Chicago is now convinced I will get stuck in my EV in winter (true or not).

 

[ace10]

"Nice car you got there, shame if anything happened to it while you were charging..."

A lot of staring and mouth/lip noises. Which guess is a thing.
Only two pumps were working. And they were both blocked by this crew's white Chevy Bolt. As comical as that sounds...


If a company is going to deploy their assets into shitty places completely unattended, why wouldn't residents of those shitty places take advantage?

 

[ace10]

With less than a day to go, the furious bidding action has driven the bid up to $10,600

https://www.copart.com/lot/40520774/2022-audi-e-tron-gt-prestige-va-fredericksburg

I was thinking it would fetch $25-30K, but my understanding of junked EVs is sorely lacking, apparently.

Copart has over 600 EV auctions running at the present time

https://www.copart.com/saleListResult/834/2024-02-13?location=Electric%20Vehicle%20Auction&saleDate=1707843600000&liveAuction=false&from=&yardNum=834

There's even a couple of Fisker Oceans and quite a few Lucids in there.

I've never followed a Copart auction before... it's kinda like BaH, but without the peanut gallery nonsense and ego-fueled bidding. lol

2+ hrs to go, now sitting at $22,2

 

[ace10]

Mercedes-Benz planning new design language for its range of EVs - Autoblog

Mercedes-Benz's future EVs will look less streamlined than its current ones, and they won't all wear the EQ name.

www.autoblog.com

 

[doolar]

I don't understand why EV's must look like shit, they all do with very few exceptions. The electric Rolls looks ok, but why not get a V12 car instead when money's obviously not a problem?

 

[gsxr]

I don't understand why EV's must look like shit, they all do with very few exceptions.

Many are designed for ultra-low drag coefficient (Cd), which often results in weird appearance. Some designs are improving, but designers can only do so much without sacrificing Cd, which means losing economy / range / yadda x3.

The electric Rolls looks ok, but why not get a V12 car instead when money's obviously not a problem?

Money isn't the issue. EV's are about various combinations of reducing tailpipe emissions, reducing dinosaur consumption, saving the environment in various different ways (while mostly changing the problems and relocating them elsewhere), and virtue signaling.

 

[doolar]

Many are designed for ultra-low drag coefficient (Cd), which often results in weird appearance. Some designs are improving, but designers can only do so much without sacrificing Cd, which means losing economy / range / yadda x3.




Money isn't the issue. EV's are about various combinations of reducing tailpipe emissions, reducing dinosaur consumption, saving the environment in various different ways (while mostly changing the problems and relocating them elsewhere), and virtue signaling.

Well if anybody believe we're saving the environment by producing more stuff to replace stuff we already own, I say they need their head examined.

Who's gonna use all these battery cars in five years or even ten? Nobody wants them after the lease is up, not dealers, not private buyers. A Porsche Taycan, one of the lesser offenders on the beauty scale, loses around 50% of its sticker in a year or so. A smaller accident and the car is totalled? How's that for the environment.

Could it be that we have to chase Cd-values because batteries are a really lousy energy carriers for a car perhaps? They weigh a ton, even when they are empty. They don't work well in the cold. They don't like being to hot either. They are really vulnerable to deformation. When they catches fire they burn forever and can't be put out with water.

I know I'm being a prick, and I do know about why the cars look like shit. But they are expensive, they aren't solving any problems, they are worse than what we already have (except for straight line performance, it's kinda game over there, but buy a Tesla, rip out the interior and win at the drag strip, then trailer it home, preferably not by a Ford Lightning).

Luckily for me I don't have to partake in this folly, at least not yet.

I wish George Carlin was still alive, and that he was president elect of the world.

 

[sheward]

All true of course. I DO like the Taycan and the Audi Etron designs. Some of the Teslas look good to my eye as well. The rest, I try not to stare at them.

 

[LWB250]

A friend, whose husband is a tax accountant, was an early Prius adopter. All he/she could do was talk about what a great deal it was, all the money they were saving, yadda, yadda, yadda. I asked him one day what would happen when the battery runs down and can't hold a charge?

"Oh, that's when I trade it in on a new one!"

"But - but it won't be worth anything because it will need a completely new battery."

We didn't see them a lot because they moved a distance away, but maybe a year later I saw the wife, and she was driving a W211. Hmm.

"What happened to the Prius?"

"The battery died, and the dealer wouldn't take it in on trade. We ended up selling it outright on Craigslist for a couple thousand."

So much for savings?

Dan

 

[dionphaneuf]

@LWB250 there's a cottage industry of folks buying those Prius w 'dead' batteries on the cheap and fixing them.

 

[gsxr]

@LWB250 there's a cottage industry of folks buying those Prius w 'dead' batteries on the cheap and fixing them.

Do you mean "fixing" them like this?

 

[LWB250]

@LWB250 there's a cottage industry of folks buying those Prius w 'dead' batteries on the cheap and fixing them.

I know. After I spoke with her I started poking around and found quite the cottage industry of DIY'ers who were identifying individual cells that had failed and caused the whole pack to go under, then replacing them and being on their way again. But - her husband was a tax accountant - not a tinkerer unless it involved a calculator. When something broke around their place he would figure out who to call.

Dan

 

[doolar]

Priusis, Priusae? (what's the plural?) is not so bad, they still have a petrol engine and the battery pack can be fairly easily fixed. My wife has a Rav4 with the same driveline albeit a bit more powerful, and it's a pretty good package. The "4x4" system is not bad at all on winter roads, 160 bhp electric motor on the rear axle is pokey and makes it quite fun to drive in town.

There are millions of Toyotas with this hybrid system rolling around the world, the oldest ones closing on 30 years, and they seem to be durable. I think it's a pretty neat system for a DD.

The major flaw with the Toyota hybrid is the fake noise they chose when the car is going slow on battery. I mean it's a fake noise, so they could have chosen ANYTHING, and yet they chose a sound that took me a while to correlate, and then one day it hit me - it sounds like a bad wheel bearing!! Now why? Sound engineers spent years trying to perfect the perfect exhaust, but when the possibilities are too easy, then it apparently is hard to execute.

I want this sound:

 

[duuder]

oh hey... did somebody mention prius's's

 

[duuder]

A friend, whose husband is a tax accountant, was an early Prius adopter. All he/she could do was talk about what a great deal it was, all the money they were saving, yadda, yadda, yadda. I asked him one day what would happen when the battery runs down and can't hold a charge?

"Oh, that's when I trade it in on a new one!"

"But - but it won't be worth anything because it will need a completely new battery."

We didn't see them a lot because they moved a distance away, but maybe a year later I saw the wife, and she was driving a W211. Hmm.

"What happened to the Prius?"

"The battery died, and the dealer wouldn't take it in on trade. We ended up selling it outright on Craigslist for a couple thousand."

So much for savings?

Dan

too bad, the hybrid battery replacement now is under $1300 bucks and DIY

edit: lowest price for a recondition hybrid is $790 plus shipping and brand new is $1890 plus shipping

 

[gsxr]

Entertaining opinion piece - thanks, @sixto!

Green is the new Red, eh.

Electric Dreams, Market Realities: The Eco-Marxism Ensnaring America’s Auto Industry

Green is the new Red, and both suffer from the same sin: making an idol out of the State. Conservative activist David Horowitz once remarked that “inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out.” As a former leftist, Horowitz knew that, regardless of their do-gooder rhetoric...

www.standingforfreedom.com

 

[ace10]

The shop that works on my Land Cruisers used to do Prius battery replacements on the side back in the old days. I don't know if there was that much demand in the early hybrid era. Don't think he does it any more. Seems like it's a commodity-type job these days. Lowest cost wins.

 

[Jlaa]

Well if anybody believe we're saving the environment by producing more stuff to replace stuff we already own, I say they need their head examined.

@doolar is the most reasonable man in the world!

The major flaw with the Toyota hybrid is the fake noise they chose when the car is going slow on battery. I mean it's a fake noise, so they could have chosen ANYTHING, and yet they chose a sound that took me a while to correlate, and then one day it hit me - it sounds like a bad wheel bearing!!

This is the "vehicle proximity notification system." If you disconnect it, you get an error message on the dashboard. Here is the solution:

 

[doolar]

@doolar is the most reasonable man in the world!


This is the "vehicle proximity notification system." If you disconnect it, you get an error message on the dashboard. Here is the solution:

View attachment 184262 View attachment 184263 View attachment 184264 View attachment 184265 View attachment 184267 View attachment 184268 View attachment 184266

I can live with an error message! It's a lease anyway so I can't inject it with silicone. Maybe I can bridge it to fool the computer? Or start a new business selling the menacing drone sound replacement. So many ideas...

 

[ace10]

Entertaining opinion piece - thanks, @sixto!

Green is the new Red, eh.

"According to USA Today, “EV inventories” ballooned by 506 percent at the end of 2023 and are gathering dust on dealer lots, taking, on average, three weeks longer to sell."

Can confirm.
Because this just happened:


Leased a replacement etron GT. This time it's an RS model. Audi is throwing cash at these cars to get them moved.
I was able to stack the standard mfg rebate ($25K), the lease rebate from the mfg ($7.5K), a returning EV owner rebate ($2K)* plus a 10% discount off the MSRP, of which the mfg picks up 6% (lol).
"Selling" price was exactly 66.7% of MSRP, with an absurdly-high 3yr/30K mile residual of 58%.

As a point of reference, I was "lucky" to only pay sticker on my 22 GT in July of 2022.

Regarding my previous car... it sold at the Copart auction for $32,250.

And, after some incredibly-helpful discussions with my independent insurance agent regarding the coverage I had on the lost car, I went back to my insurer and demanded that they re-open the claim. Turns out, I was paying for ultra-deluxe, super-platinum replacement cost car coverage. None of the shenanigans, heartburn and woe should have happened.
I got three proposals from different dealers for equivalent new cars, net of current discounts (which are much lower on the non RS models), and the adjuster approved a full payout. Happy ending to the story!


* The dealer wasn't aware of such a rebate. Which kinda tells me that people aren't coming back. The big etron SUV has been around since 2019.

 

[ace10]

Fisker's a penny stock. AND facing probe for Audi 5000-esque behavior.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ev-startup-fisker-receives-non-compliance-notice-nyse-2024-02-16/

 

[maw1124]

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/biden-administration-relax-ev-rule-tailpipe-emissions-ny-times-2024-02-18/

Now that Obama’s Cash for Clunkers has permanently increased the unit demand economics for used internal combustion engine cars… thanks

maw

 

[gerryvz]

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/biden-administration-relax-ev-rule-tailpipe-emissions-ny-times-2024-02-18/

Now that Obama’s Cash for Clunkers has permanently increased the unit demand economics for used internal combustion engine cars… thanks

maw

“The new pace is expected to result in EVs accounting for less than 60% of total vehicles produced by 2030, the sources said.”

Ha! They still have their heads in the sand. They will be lucky if it is 20% — a third of the 60% figure.

I’m glad reality is just starting to sink in, but it’s going to have to sink quite a bit deeper.

Americans just aren’t buying and aren’t interested in the EV drugs they are pushing. Market forces at work through civil disobedience.

 

[gsxr]

“The new pace is expected to result in EVs accounting for less than 60% of total vehicles produced by 2030, the sources said.”

Someone actually believed that EV's could be anywhere near 60% of total vehicles produced... by 2030?

 

[duuder]

and the public charging areas ive seen in Williamsburg in Brooklyn leave their cars charging there all night! it becomes an overnight parking spot so if anyone else wanted to charge there, you couldnt

 

[maw1124]

Someone actually believed that EV's could be anywhere near 60% of total vehicles produced... by 2030?

No, it was just a BHAG... Big Hairy Ass Goal... it's a rah rah thing to signal direction... it was never gonna happen... this is what I mean when I say the pronouncements will just change when the facts don't support them, so don't get your panties in a bunch over pronouncements... I ignore the pronouncements and sit back thinking "yeah we'll see."

But the whole "the tech doesn't actually work" thing is a bug up my arse about politicians... they never bother to, you know, actually understand anything... burns my arse... I hate lazy thinking.

maw

EDIT… from the beginning everyone knew “infrastructure” would be the problem. So now no one should be surprised that infrastructure is the problem. “They say EV technology is still too costly for many mainstream U.S. consumers and that more time is needed to develop the charging infrastructure.” For all the noise about desirability of the cars (red herring), the real signal was always about infrastructure.

 

[Jlaa]

No, it was just a BHAG... Big Hairy Ass Goal... it's a rah rah thing to signal direction... it was never gonna happen... this is what I mean when I say the pronouncements will just change when the facts don't support them, so don't get your panties in a bunch over pronouncements... I ignore the pronouncements and sit back thinking "yeah we'll see."

But the whole "the tech doesn't actually work" thing is a bug up my arse about politicians... they never bother to, you know, actually understand anything... burns my arse... I hate lazy thinking.

maw

EDIT… from the beginning everyone knew “infrastructure” would be the problem. So now no one should be surprised that infrastructure is the problem. “They say EV technology is still too costly for many mainstream U.S. consumers and that more time is needed to develop the charging infrastructure.” For all the noise about desirability of the cars (red herring), the real signal was always about infrastructure.

Being a son of the motor city, @maw1124, how much of this government top-line industrial policy hysteresis "All in on EVs! Oh no wait, not gonna work....All in on the next shiny object!!! Oh no wait, not gonna work...." contributes to terrible mismanagement in American companies? Versus, say, Toyota, which seem to be more rational?

BTW all the more ironic as it seems POTUS is a gear-head: Biden's nicely loaded, built-to-order Cadillac ATS-V is up for sale - Autoblog

 

[maw1124]

That's an interesting question @Jlaa that I can't say I've considered before. I'm not at all sure what animates management of American car companies. Never have been. It's always been a bit muddled to me, which has always been clear in comparison to their global competitors. This is no different to me. There's a ton in that management stew that shouldn't be there IMO... this is just another off ingredient.

They don't seem to be focused on anything enough to be distracted by it, if that makes any sense.

Lexus used to be driven to distraction by "the relentless pursuit of perfection"... Mercedes by "the best or nothing" and "engineered like no other car in the world" ... no such thing could be said for the locals in my view.

maw

 

[gerryvz]

Facts:

• EVs represented less than 8% of all new car sales in the US in 2023
• Per its 2023 rules, the EPA is currently projecting that "EVs could account for 67% of new light-duty vehicle sales" by midyear 2032
• In January 2024, the average price paid for a new EV in the US was $50,789
• The average US retail price for an ICE-based car is ~$34,000
• Ford lost $36,000 on every EV it produced during the latter part of 2023

 

[gerryvz]

Toyota, which seem to be more rational?

I have to give Toyota props for keeping an even keel, a clear head and sane perspective for navigating through all of the mandates, initiatives and government-"inspired" changes that have happened in recent years with regard to EVs.

Out of all of the major car companies out there, Toyota has done an excellent job of hedging its bets across many different technologies, and not going too far down any specific rabbit-hole. This becomes even more apparent when you look what how far off the cliff / out in front of their skis that so many other major automakers have gotten (**see Ford bullet point above).

Sure, Toyota has been lambasted for not being "with the program," but their rationality and realistic-ness is certainly showing signs of paying off for them. Meanwhile, "everyone else" is trying desperately to get back over their skis. The recent pushout by two years of the EV pseudo-mandate rules provides some short-term relief, but it's only the first of many future push-outs.

Maybe to spur EV adoption, the EPA/administration will try the same "pseudo-mandate" approach they took with the COVID vaccine to goad people into taking something that was wholly unnecessary, and is now being scientifically proven to be fairly dangerous to people. So you get more "privileges" and reduced taxes and get to do more & go more places more easily, and don't have to pay tolls if you own/drive an EV, as opposed to the unvarnished heathen masses who stubbornly keep driving ICE cars.

 

[doolar]

I have to give Toyota props for keeping an even keel, a clear head and sane perspective for navigating through all of the mandates, initiatives and government-"inspired" changes that have happened in recent years with regard to EVs.

Out of all of the major car companies out there, Toyota has done an excellent job of hedging its bets across many different technologies, and not going too far down any specific rabbit-hole. This becomes even more apparent when you look what how far off the cliff / out in front of their skis that so many other major automakers have gotten (**see Ford bullet point above).

Sure, Toyota has been lambasted for not being "with the program," but their rationality and realistic-ness is certainly showing signs of paying off for them. Meanwhile, "everyone else" is trying desperately to get back over their skis. The recent pushout by two years of the EV pseudo-mandate rules provides some short-term relief, but it's only the first of many future push-outs.

Maybe to spur EV adoption, the EPA/administration will try the same "pseudo-mandate" approach they took with the COVID vaccine to goad people into taking something that was wholly unnecessary, and is now being scientifically proven to be fairly dangerous to people. So you get more "privileges" and reduced taxes and get to do more & go more places more easily, and don't have to pay tolls if you own/drive an EV, as opposed to the unvarnished heathen masses who stubbornly keep driving ICE cars.

Our family is on our third Toyota since around 2010. And one of the reasons is how they go about their business, the EV craze is just one of all the things. The way they take responsibility for their mistakes is second to none. I had a 250.000 km home serviced beater of a Toyota. Got a letter from Toyota Sweden were they apologized for a hose of bad quality, and asked me if I could bring the car in for a free replacement. Of course I got a free loaner too.

A few years later my co-worker had the dreaded camshaft gear issue on his Mercedes C-class that he bought brand new and always serviced at the same Mercedes dealer. Never ever late on a service, a truly dealer pampered car. What did Mercedes say or do? Too bad, your loss ("we've never heard about this issue before" was among the lies that they brought). After a LOT of to's and fro's he finally had them do the work fixing the engine for 50% of the list price, which was a shitload of cash anyway. He sold the car after it was fixed and he will probably never buy a Mercedes again. And this is not an isolated case unfortunately.

I love Mercedes of course, but they have a lot to learn on the customer support front. And manufacturing EV's that look funny and like all other EV's is not the way forward I think.

 

[daantjie]

I think brand support is very much localized to be honest. Here in Canada I've had truly attrocious customer service from both Honda and Hyundai. Yet Honda boasts gleefully that they have the top selling car in Canada in the Civic for decades. Well, good for Honda I guess. Until you are out of warranty then you don't exist anymore. Canadians tend to drive their cars way longer than our Yank brothers, so I think in general car manufacturers really don't give a sh*t about the Canadian market, they really treat us as the ugly girl at the dance. Of course we have a much smaller market and huge country to service, so I get it to a certain extent, but still the "service" is horrible. Now, if I were to buy another car (really diggin' the new Land Cruiser, but have to win the Lotto for that one...) then it'll likely be a Toyota (my family has owned multiple Corrolas and Cressidas (Camry) over the years). But I fear the service from Toyota Canada will be as bad as the other brands sadly.

 

[LWB250]

too bad, the hybrid battery replacement now is under $1300 bucks and DIY

edit: lowest price for a recondition hybrid is $790 plus shipping and brand new is $1890 plus shipping

This was easily in 2005-6, if not farther back, as I recall.

Dan

 

[duuder]

around that time, everyone one was saying the battery replacement was going to be 10k plus.

 

[ace10]

Genesis Backtracking From All-EV Push in Favor of Hybrids: Report

According to a new report, Genesis might start selling hybrids in 2025—something it has never done before.

www.thedrive.com

 

[gsxr]

EV's are in such high demand, Ford is cutting pricing and offering free (-ish) financing to help some models fly off the lots faster:

Ford cuts price of 2023 Mustang Mach-E by up to $8,100, offers 0% financing

Ford and Tesla continue the price war as each electric vehicle automaker hopes to increase sales in the U.S.

www.freep.com

Ford cuts price of 2023 Mustang Mach-E by up to $8,100, offers 0% financing​

Ford Motor Co. slashed the cost of its electric 2023 Mustang Mach-E on Tuesday to be more competitive with Tesla and get the award-winning SUV into the hands of budget-conscious buyers.​

​

Prices are being reduced $3,100 to $8,100 depending on the model, effective immediately, according to a pricing chart the automaker sent to its dealer network.​

​

In addition, Ford Credit is offering 0% financing for 72 months to qualified buyers, plus a $7,500 cash incentive on leased vehicles that is applied to immediately to lower the lease payment, Ford spokesman Marty Gunsberg said.​

​

"We are adjusting pricing," Gunsberg told the Detroit Free Press. "As we continue to adapt to the market to achieve the optimal mix of sales growth and customer value."​

​

Ford wants to make way for the 2024 Mach-E, too, he said.​

​

Mustang Mach-E price breakdown​

The new prices of the 2023 Mustang Mach-E, which seats five people, are:​

​

• Select rear-wheel drive (RWD) drops $3,100 to $39,895
• Select all-wheel drive (AWD) drops $3,100 to $42,895
• Premium RWD, standard range drops $4,100 to $42,895
• Premium AWD, standard range drops $4,100 to $45,895
• Premium RWD, extended range drops $8,100 to $45,895
• Premium AWD, extended range drops $8,100 to $48,895
• California Route 1 AWD, drops $8,100 to $48,895
• GT drops $7,600 to $52,395
• GT Performance Edition drops $7,600 to $57,395

The $1,800 delivery and destination fees are calculated separately. The battery range on these vehicles is EPA-estimated at 250 to 312 miles per charge, depending on the battery pack and other details, according to the Ford website.​

​

The Mach-E does not qualify for the $7,500 tax credit, Gunsberg confirmed.​

​

Of the versions available, the Mach-E Premium has been the top seller and is also the trim with the most availability now, Gunsberg told the Free Press.​

 

[ace10]

Mercedes-Benz delays EV goals because of weak demand, will continue to build gas-powered cars | Fox Business

German automaker Mercedes-Benz said it will delay plans to have half of all sales be electric vehicles or hybrids until 2030 because of weak demand.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[gerryvz]

Reality is JUST STARTING to bite hard.

Expect every major automaker to have similar announcements, especially now that the ice has been broken by the first few.

Kemp: Biden's electric vehicle push spawned a market backlash

Georgia has drawn billions of dollars in investments from carmakers Hyundai and Rivian for new EV manufacturing plants in the state.

www.politico.com

Biden administration considering delaying switch to electric vehicles: Report

The Biden administration is expected to loosen its rules for the country’s switch to electric vehicles (EVs), The New York Times first reported Saturday, citing three people familiar with the plan.…

thehill.com

Biden begins to admit defeat on electric vehicles - Washington Examiner

Instead of rolling back his failed electric vehicle mandate, President Joe Biden should repeal it entirely.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Mercedes CEO warns that EVs are ‘many years away’ from costing the same as traditional cars amid cooling demand for vehicles with a plug

Mercedes and its peers have grown more cautious about battery technology as sales of EVs this year are set to grow at the slowest rate since 2019.

fortune.com

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/china-electric-vehicle-demand-slowing-b4e78636

Biden’s sweeping green vision crashes into reality

Slowing electric car sales, anxious union workers and the president’s campaign difficulties in Michigan are complicating one of his most ambitious climate policies.

www.politico.com

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/climate/biden-epa-auto-emissions.html

https://www.autofinancenews.net/allposts/risk-management/the-big-miss-on-electric-cars-is-remaking-europes-auto-industry/

 

[daantjie]

I'm experiencing big time schadenfreude seeing as they were raking it in big time during and post Covid with low supply and huge premiums. Sorry not sorry

 

[gerryvz]

I'm experiencing big time schadenfreude seeing as they were raking it in big time during and post Covid with low supply and huge premiums. Sorry not sorry

Yep, I have to concur with you here. And you are right, two or three years ago car companies and car dealers were taking it to consumers big-time (whether by choice or not). So they are getting what they deserve with regard to the EV sales crisis. I don't feel sorry for them at all.

I know that some folks here on the forum are big EV folks, but this train-wreck was pretty evident even 3 years ago when the US government started going head-long into trying to "goose" (force) the market to accelerate adoption of EVs (instead of letting things happen more gradually, and more agreeably for most folks).

Maybe it all depends on where you get your news and information from.

I know that in the links I provided above (from a simple Google News search), I only provided ONE example from a right-leaning publication (Washington Examiner). Every other one is from a center (WSJ news department) or left (NYT, Politico, etc.) news source.

When you have the NYT coming out against it, you know the situation is in pretty bad straits.

I saw a stat that something like 60% of EV sales (don't quote me on this or source) has been in the state of California. I see a lot here in the Maryland/DC/Northern Virginia area, and I am sure there are a fair number in Western Oregon and Western Washington, and NY/MA as well.
I'd wager in reality, that probably 90-95% of all EVs sold have been on the East and West coasts, plus Chicago and perhaps Dallas/Houston/Denver.

 

[ace10]

Toyota investors have been rewarded handsomely for the company's reluctance to go along with the forced march toward EVs.

 

[gsxr]

Expect every major automaker to have similar announcements, especially now that the ice has been broken by the first few.

Kemp: Biden's electric vehicle push spawned a market backlash

Georgia has drawn billions of dollars in investments from carmakers Hyundai and Rivian for new EV manufacturing plants in the state.

www.politico.com

Yep.

"...When the government starts mandating things and pushing people, it turns a lot of people off and that’s what’s happened a lot in the EV marketplace versus letting the product drive the market..."

 

[gsxr]

BTW, the autofinancenews article is paywalled, and archive.ph can't break through.

 

[gerryvz]

"...When the government starts mandating things and pushing people..."

Unfortunately, that is the increasingly centrally-planned and mandated political reality we are living in -- rather than letting the free markets innovate, adapt and serve the markets.

I am not hopeful this accelerating direction is going to change course during the rest of my lifetime. In the future, the government will be doing more and more to "take care" of people, leaving less and less decisions to be made by people of their own free will (for good or worse) in the name of protecting people from making bad decisions.

"We're the government -- we know best."

"You don't need that gun that is your constitutional right to own and carry -- having guns makes other people feel less safe, so you shouldn't have it."

or there's Hawaii's take on it ... they just flip the bird to the US Constitution and their own state constitution altogether. Can't wait to see this idiotic state supreme court get humbled and fully PWNED in court.

Hawai’i Supreme Court Says No Right to Bear Arms in Public

The Hawai’i Constitution doesn’t recognize a right to bear arms in public, the Hawai’i Supreme Court said, criticizing the reasoning used by the US Supreme Court to recognize the right in the Second Amendment.

news.bloomberglaw.com

"Gun use has changed and a “backward-looking approach ignores today’s realities,” the court said. “As the world turns, it makes no sense for contemporary society to pledge allegiance to the founding era’s culture, realities, laws, and understanding of the Constitution,” it said."

 

[ace10]

Unfortunately, that is the increasingly centrally-planned and mandated political reality we are living in -- rather than letting the free markets innovate, adapt and serve the markets.

I am not hopeful this accelerating direction is going to change course during the rest of my lifetime. In the future, the government will be doing more and more to "take care" of people, leaving less and less decisions to be made by people of their own free will (for good or worse) in the name of protecting people from making bad decisions. "We're the government -- we know best"

Here's the latest out of Washington DC, in terms of government handouts for its residents. And of course, what did one recipient do? Blew most of it on a "lavish trip " to Florida. So, even "taking care" of people by giving them ten grand handouts, doesn't prevent them from making bad decisions anyway.

Kindly shut up and put your goggles on.

 

[duuder]

Unfortunately, that is the increasingly centrally-planned and mandated political reality we are living in -- rather than letting the free markets innovate, adapt and serve the markets.

I am not hopeful this accelerating direction is going to change course during the rest of my lifetime. In the future, the government will be doing more and more to "take care" of people, leaving less and less decisions to be made by people of their own free will (for good or worse) in the name of protecting people from making bad decisions.

"We're the government -- we know best."

"You don't need that gun that is your constitutional right to own and carry -- having guns makes other people feel less safe, so you shouldn't have it."

or there's Hawaii's take on it ... they just flip the bird to the US Constitution and their own state constitution altogether. Can't wait to see this idiotic state supreme court get humbled and fully PWNED in court.

Hawai’i Supreme Court Says No Right to Bear Arms in Public

The Hawai’i Constitution doesn’t recognize a right to bear arms in public, the Hawai’i Supreme Court said, criticizing the reasoning used by the US Supreme Court to recognize the right in the Second Amendment.

news.bloomberglaw.com

how soon will they choke or just tax the gasoline supply?