Whats the current recomendation for Caps Rotors?

[Ascension]

Been running Bremi but seems like after a good rain here and super high humidity I have a bad miss every time I fire it up after it has set a few days. Run it a few let it sit and refire and it clears but is furustrating as heck. New insulators Bremi caps and rotors and on my 2nd set in a couple years. Has been a constant issue with this car but have been running the Bremi caps and they are a different design that the Bosh caps that came on the car. What about Beru caps? Am looking at both Beru and Bosh this time so which ones do you guys reccomend and why?

 

[gsxr]

Rotors: Beru, nothing else. They are reboxed OE Genuine Mercedes and have 3mm hex bolts that actually fit 3mm hex keys.

Caps: I personally am buying Beru caps.

I turned sour on Bosch caps after receiving a brand-new one that was DOA out of the box, causing a hot idle misfire that took me forever to diagnose, because new caps can't be bad, right? And, all Bosch rotors have bolts with hex sockets that NO Allen wrench will fit properly in. I'm not a fan of Bremi because they were never, ever, OEM for any ignition parts on the M119.

That said - take your rotor+bracket out, and inspect the back side of your insulators for any sign of liquid. You're already in there, so remove that 1 last bolt on both sides...

 

[LWB250]

Beru and Beru. Just put a fresh set of both (and insulators) on the 1995 E420.

Dan

 

[kegmankipp]

Best place to get the Beru setup?

 

[gerryvz]

RM European and/or FCP Yurro.

 

[kegmankipp]

RM European and/or FCP Yurro.

Thanks Gerry. I checked Yurro and they have Beru caps and rotors but no Beru insulators? Do they list as a different part name or brand?

While I’m at it, current recommend plugs and wires?
many thanks

 

[gerryvz]

Beru doesn't sell insulators. You have to go with Bosch for those. Or MB, which uses Bosch as the OEM. The Bosch ones are cheaper (I think AutohauZ is cheapest).

Plugs = MB plugs or Bosch equivalent (made in Russia). Either is fine. Gap to 1mm.

Wires = Use the MB wires. Only good alternative is Beru, if you can find them.

Plenty of threads on plugs and wires here on the forum.

 

[gsxr]

Re: wires: I'll politely disagree with Gerry, get the Beru set that @Trae mentioned earlier this year. They are top-quality and were OEM back in the 90's. The current OE wires, if still available, are Bosch with flimsy insulation & orange plastic plug boots... I personally wouldn't buy them.

FYI - Beru spark plug wire set ZEF-635 | M119 Engine

Hi guys, I had been chasing a misfire on my 93' 500E for a month. I had replaced spark plugs, caps, rotors, and insulators behind the rotors thinking it might have been moisture build up behind the cap. Car ran fine cold, BUT would misfire as soon as it reached operating temperature. Then, I...

www.500eboard.co

 

[kegmankipp]

Thanks guys

 

[Kridre]

If you are interested Partsgeek have beru wires (zef635) but they ships only to USA... So that's no for me or maybe someone from here will be willing to resend them to Poland? I could not find them anywhere else.

 

[LWB250]

I just got a set of all.

RM had the caps and insulators, but not rotors. FCP Euro had rotors. Go figure.

Dan

 

[Ascension]

Rotors: Beru, nothing else. They are reboxed OE Genuine Mercedes and have 3mm hex bolts that actually fit 3mm hex keys.

Caps: I personally am buying Beru caps.

I turned sour on Bosch caps after receiving a brand-new one that was DOA out of the box, causing a hot idle misfire that took me forever to diagnose, because new caps can't be bad, right? And, all Bosch rotors have bolts with hex sockets that NO Allen wrench will fit properly in. I'm not a fan of Bremi because they were never, ever, OEM for any ignition parts on the M119.

That said - take your rotor+bracket out, and inspect the back side of your insulators for any sign of liquid. You're already in there, so remove that 1 last bolt on both sides...

Know the drill the insulators are new Bosh both sides. AC has been down on her this summer so she is not getting driven regularly and when it does not far enough to get it hot enough to fully dry the caps out. Had to take POA over my 92 year old Mother and having to drive 60 miles one way at least a couple times a week just haven't had time to dive into the AC problem so the old girl has been neglected. Just put my mother on Hospice so maybe will have the time to get her back in shape. Have to find a way to not have to fight so much with the moisture issue in these caps though!

 

[Ascension]

Update grabbed a set of Beru caps and rotors but it wasn't easy. FCP had the rotors cheap but no caps . Found a set of caps on ebay for $150 and they showed up couple days ago still waiting on the rotors and now wish I hadn't gone with the standard shipping with FCP. Shocked Beru caps we so hard to find so heads up guys! already have new insulators I did a couple years ago and grabbed a left side plastic shield to replace the one that has been damaged since I have had the car from FCP. Hope this solves the moisture issue finally!

 

[gsxr]

Just recently the Beru stuff has gone OOS at most vendors - don't know why. Hope it's not a prelude to NLA.

 

[nocfn]

Since I installed beru caps and rotors last week, my replacement set just arrived from different vendors.

 

[Ascension]

Just recently the Beru stuff has gone OOS at most vendors - don't know why. Hope it's not a prelude to NLA.

Saw the same thing and is why I posted that to warn others. Only set of caps I could find were the Ebay site from Parts Container at sane prices but they wanted as much for a single rotor as FCP did for a pair. Ordered the rotors from FCP and asked about the caps but got no answer about why the caps were not available now .

 

[Matin]

Rotors: Beru, nothing else. They are reboxed OE Genuine Mercedes and have 3mm hex bolts that actually fit 3mm hex keys.

Caps: I personally am buying Beru caps.

I turned sour on Bosch caps after receiving a brand-new one that was DOA out of the box, causing a hot idle misfire that took me forever to diagnose, because new caps cant be bad, right? And, all Bosch rotors have bolts with hex sockets that NO Allen wrench will fit properly in. Im not a fan of Bremi because they were never, ever, OEM for any ignition parts on the M119.

That said - take your rotor+bracket out, and inspect the back side of your insulators for any sign of liquid. Youre already in there, so remove that 1 last bolt on both sides...

Are all Beru caps NLA? I can't seem to find them anywhere here in the US, same issue when I was in the UK.

 

[gsxr]

Are all Beru caps NLA? I cant seem to find them anywhere here in the US, same issue when I was in the UK.

I think they might be. If so, we're stuck with Bosch caps, just be careful as noted above - more than one person has encountered a defective Bosch cap out of the box.

 

[a777fan]

Dave, were you able to use a test (resistance, sds, etc) to ID the bad cap? Or was it the good ole RnR method?

 

[gsxr]

Dave, were you able to use a test (resistance, sds, etc) to ID the bad cap? Or was it the good ole RnR method?

This was ~10 years ago and the only symptom was a misfire at hot idle, in gear only - not in Park/Neutral. Drove me crazy. At the time I don't think I had figured out how to identify the faulty cylinder(s) with SDS so I tried swapping parts in desperation. The "bad" one was flawless visually (less than 500 miles on it). I can't recall if I measured resistance but I expect it would have bench-tested ok.

 

[gerryvz]

Is MB still shipping the Beru caps and EVIL-183 rotors as factory parts?

 

[gsxr]

MB caps are Bosch. Word on the playground is that years ago, MB caps were different and had a clearcoat that aftermarket did not have... but now, the MB caps are identical to aftermarket at 3x the price (?), with NO clearcoat. Think this has been discussed in the past.

MB rotors are Doduco. These had been available as reboxed Beru, but have been NLA for a while, unless you find a vendor with some old stock. The current Beru rotors, with 4-digit part number, are aftermarket junk (link, post #4).

 

[Duh_Vinci]

MB caps were different and had a clearcoat that aftermarket did not have... but now, the MB caps are identical to aftermarket at 3x the price (?), with NO clearcoat.

I wonder if an application of some kind of nano/ceramic coating on the inside then would be advisable (not on the contact points, but everywhere else)?

 

[gsxr]

I wonder if an application of some kind of nano/ceramic coating on the inside then would be advisable (not on the contact points, but everywhere else)?

The previous discussion postulated about various high-voltage electrical clearcoats. I don't know if a ceramic-type coating would survive the constant high voltage arcs?

 

[Matin]

I always thought Beru caps were miles better than Bosch. I specfically remember numerous times I had issues with Bosch but Beru always ran so sweet. Shame they are NLA.

 

[Kridre]

Two years ago I replaced cap and rotor with beru on M103 engine. I had issues since then. Replaced beru with bosch and now no more issues with misfiring. My 400E also was running bosch caps and rotors for more than 7 years and besides typical moisture I had zero issues.

I didn't replaced them when I was doing engine overhaul. I'm testing how long they will last.

Nowadays everything is just lottery when it comes down to quality.

 

[Jlaa]

I wonder if the best bet these days is a combination of these two :

Cap = Aftermarket Bosch (MB part is Bosch now)
Rotor = Aftermarket Beru EVL183 (which is rebranded Doduco) (MB part is Doduco)

 

[gsxr]

I wonder if the best bet these days is a combination of these two :

Cap = Aftermarket Bosch (MB part is Bosch now)
Rotor = Aftermarket Beru EVL183 (which is rebranded Doduco) (MB part is Doduco)

That's what I would use today, given the limited options. The MB rotor is good stuff, but not cheap. MB caps are ridiculously overpriced.

 

[tuttebenne]

Dave, were you able to use a test (resistance, sds, etc) to ID the bad cap? Or was it the good ole RnR method?

I ran into the same issue with a new Bosch cap as Dave had experienced. The engine misfired once warmed up. It was most apparent at idle but I suspect it was failing at speed as well. Went down the path of "new stuff is good stuff" before finally replacing nearly everything else in the ignition system (left the EZL alone) After replacing caps again one at a time, did I find the new/bad one. Visual check showed the issue. Look to the left of the rotor contact. FCP cheerfully took it back.

 

[a777fan]

I ran into the same issue with a new Bosch cap as Dave had experienced. The engine misfired once warmed up. It was most apparent at idle but I suspect it was failing at speed as well. Went down the path of new stuff is good stuff before finally replacing nearly everything else in the ignition system (left the EZL alone) After replacing caps again one at a time, did I find the new/bad one. Visual check showed the issue. Look to the left of the rotor contact. FCP cheerfully took it back.

Thanks tutte! Sorry, i’m having a hard time picking up what your talking about in the image. Is there a crack there?

 

[yevgenievich]

Looks like poor insulation and arcing(black spots)

 

[Ascension]

I have had much better luck with Bremi Rotors and caps than Bosh as of late. Now that the real Beru caps and rotors are gone that does not leave many options. Unfortunately our choices and getting slim on many things as of now.

 

[Jlaa]

Looks like poor insulation and arcing(black spots)

Like @a777fan I can't tell ... what am I looking at --- the green or blue or something else?

 

[tuttebenne]

Thanks tutte! Sorry, i’m having a hard time picking up what your talking about in the image. Is there a crack there?

Yes its that hairline crack that looks like an accumulation of black dots.

 

[rayhennig]

I had a Bosch cap fitted by some cowboys in Toulouse. Within a year it was cracking around the centre electrode. Now replaced with MB Bosch.

All seems well 3 years later but we shall see. The whole system (M104 engine) is MB supplied, from coil to plugs.

RayH

 

[rayhennig]

Oh, it seems I'm repeating myself in this thread:

Misfires and Distributor Caps - beware of Bosch | M119 Engine

Klink I actually measured the resistance of the rotor from the ionized zone to the tip and it was waaay out of tolerance. I cleaned the arc/burnt material in the countersunk area- remeasured and it was perfect. Quite so, but again, that dirty area is of no consequence at these voltage levels...

www.500eboard.co

Sorry.

R

 

[sadey1992]

MB caps are Bosch. Word on the playground is that years ago, MB caps were different and had a clearcoat that aftermarket did not have... but now, the MB caps are identical to aftermarket at 3x the price (?), with NO clearcoat. Think this has been discussed in the past.

MB rotors are Doduco. These had been available as reboxed Beru, but have been NLA for a while, unless you find a vendor with some old stock. The current Beru rotors, with 4-digit part number, are aftermarket junk (link, post #4).

MB caps at my local MB dealer are Doduco. $300 a piece though... And I've read on one of these forums that in the '90s Doduco went bad... Also going to try the slotting and Scotch 1602-R spray coating for the Bosch caps...

Any advice on Doduco caps?

Seems people have suggested the insulative spray in coating but it doesn't seem that anybody has actually done it and provided any sort of feedback regarding how it went....

 

[gsxr]

AFAIK the Doduco caps have been out of production for years. Last I saw the dealer had Bosch caps and Doduco rotors. I would have no problems using aftermarket Bosch caps. I don't think the spray coating is necessary.

Definitely do prefer Doduco / OE rotors though, over the Bosch.

 

[sadey1992]

AFAIK the Doduco caps have been out of production for years. Last I saw the dealer had Bosch caps and Doduco rotors. I would have no problems using aftermarket Bosch caps. I don't think the spray coating is necessary.

Definitely do prefer Doduco / OE rotors though, over the Bosch.

Aftermarket Bosch so far are garbage for me. But I did see the computer screen at my local MB dealer, and it said Doduco. NOS maybe?

 

[gsxr]

Aftermarket Bosch so far are garbage for me. But I did see the computer screen at my local MB dealer, and it said Doduco. NOS maybe?

The EPC / XPPIS does mention Doduco, but also shows it superceding to the Bosch number. See below. This isn't clear, but the #01 part number is Bosch. The #02 was Doduco with notes that it may no longer be installed, and "Not Used". You can only get #01 from the dealer today and it will be Bosch, probably without any clear coating.

I'm not a fan of Bosch either, but our options are limited. And, probably 90% of Bosch caps should be ok if you buy from a reputable vendor. Be careful, there are a lot of counterfeit Bosch parts on the market - never buy from a rando seller on eBay or Amazon 3rd party. Bremi is worse, don't go there.

 

[sadey1992]

The EPC / XPPIS does mention Doduco, but also shows it superceding to the Bosch number. See below. This isn't clear, but the #01 part number is Bosch. The #02 was Doduco with notes that it may no longer be installed, and "Not Used". You can only get #01 from the dealer today and it will be Bosch, probably without any clear coating.

I'm not a fan of Bosch either, but our options are limited. And, probably 90% of Bosch caps should be ok if you buy from a reputable vendor. Be careful, there are a lot of counterfeit Bosch parts on the market - never buy from a rando seller on eBay or Amazon 3rd party. Bremi is worse, don't go there.



View attachment 233191

I've been using FCP Euro. I will see if I can exchange them before I go the modification route... Otherwise I might spend the money and try the Doduco caps... They claimed there were a lot of them available around the country...

 

[gsxr]

I've been using FCP Euro. I will see if I can exchange them before I go the modification route... Otherwise I might spend the money and try the Doduco caps... They claimed there were a lot of them available around the country...

Maybe I wasn't clear. There are no Doduco caps. Full stop. Your dealer is incorrect. If you order them, you will receive Bosch, no matter what the dealer parts guy tells you.

 

[sadey1992]

Maybe I wasn't clear. There are no Doduco caps. Full stop. Your dealer is incorrect. If you order them, you will receive Bosch, no matter what the dealer parts guy tells you.

OH ok, I'm still new to this car, only had it 3 months and still learning tons about it. What are your thoughts on the Bosch units from the dealer and/or those with the glaze on them vs non-glazed?

 

[gerryvz]

I believe that MB stopped selling Doduco caps a couple of years ago after their supply of them ran out.

They became NLA on the aftermarket around late 2020 or early 2021. I was fortunate to find a pair of Doduco caps and rotors when I did my Top-End Refresh in 2020. Since then, a forum member gave me a pair of NOS MB caps and rotors, which he obtained some years back, which are Doducos.

About two years ago, I was able to purchase ONE Doduco rotor from NAPA on line, but have not been able to find a second spare.

 

[sadey1992]

I believe that MB stopped selling Doduco caps a couple of years ago after their supply of them ran out.

They became NLA on the aftermarket around late 2020 or early 2021. I was fortunate to find a pair of Doduco caps and rotors when I did my Top-End Refresh in 2020. Since then, a forum member gave me a pair of NOS MB caps and rotors, which he obtained some years back, which are Doducos.

About two years ago, I was able to purchase ONE Doduco rotor from NAPA on line, but have not been able to find a second spare

About 3 weeks ago, I found several in Alaska. $35 each. I don't have to pay for the caps from the MB dealer until I decide to actually pick them up... I could order and find out...

 

[gsxr]

OH ok, I'm still new to this car, only had it 3 months and still learning tons about it. What are your thoughts on the Bosch units from the dealer and/or those with the glaze on them vs non-glazed?

From what I've read here on this forum, many years ago (like, 15+ years) the dealer caps were Bosch with a coating of some sort. However, now people are reporting that the dealer caps are identical to aftermarket Bosch, non-coated. I don't think there's any advantage to the dealer caps nowadays, vs Bosch aftermarket. I'm also not sure how much difference the coating makes, especially with the extra vent slots added.

 

[sadey1992]

From what I've read here on this forum, many years ago (like, 15+ years) the dealer caps were Bosch with a coating of some sort. However, now people are reporting that the dealer caps are identical to aftermarket Bosch, non-coated. I don't think there's any advantage to the dealer caps nowadays, vs Bosch aftermarket. I'm also not sure how much difference the coating makes, especially with the extra vent slots added.

Ok. Good to know. I don't like the way my caps look. I'll try getting a new set out of FCP Euro and see how they look. Then try again. That's the "free" method at this point... Although again, the dealer will not charge me to "order" the caps to look at them... Though they may not like me too much if I keep doing that to them... Haha. This would be the second time... The rotors from the dealership were Doduco, but I found them for a quarter the price through Napa as Doduco-Beru (EVL-183 NOT the EVL-1831) so I declined picking them up from my local dealer.

 

[gerryvz]

Interesting to see that NAPA is now offering its own "Echlin Ignition" brand caps and rotors for the M119, in addition to Beru caps.

They say that the Echlin parts are made in Poland.

 

[sadey1992]

Interesting to see that NAPA is now offering its own "Echlin Ignition" brand caps and rotors for the M119, in addition to Beru caps.

They say that the Echlin parts are made in Poland.

Ya, I was curious about those also... Made by Standard Motor Products... Can't find reviews on them... And to the tune of almost $200... And I called Napa, the Beru caps are NLA... I even asked to make sure that it was not available anywhere in the US...

 

[gsxr]

Standard Motor Products is a reboxer. Those are very likely cheap off-brand parts, from Bremi, Facet, or similar mfr.

Beru caps have been gone a long time, I don't think there is any stock remaining, anywhere. There are still a tiny number of the Beru EVL rotors (reboxed Doduco) but they are hard to find.