Baby Car Seat

[Melville]

I'm in the hunt for an E500E and also have my first kid on the way. Is there anything about this car that I should know about while I'm looking for a car seat for Jr.?

PS - sometimes my wife says I'm more interested in the car than the baby...

 

[8899]

The seat belt mechanism on the 036 does not have the locking feature. So, in this case you will need to use the lock-out device that comes with the car seat. Don't worry if this doesn't make complete sense....once you get your car seat and thoroughly study the installation directions it will all become clear.

 

[400Eric]

As the child ages there will be a point when you will graduate to the kind of a seat that wants to have the top portion fastened to an "anchor" located behind the top of the upper rear seat. Only our W124s are too old and don't have them. (At least my '93 didn't.) There is a funky bolt kit available from the dealer that, when combined with extra pieces that come with the baby seat, will create the proper set-up.

Regards,
Eric

 

[samiam44]

The 500e does not have the Latch system. It is generally recommended to use a center belt, which our 500e's don't have. Kids are messy- get a lower seat cover. If you want to do the center setup, get a 034 rear seat and belt. Not sure what the MB kit is that 400ecric is talking about. Not sure what would be the attach point(s)?

Michael

 

[400Eric]

Yes, that brings up another salient point. You need to use the center belt, something not present in a 036. That's another hurdle to contend with.

The attach point I'm talking about is literally the metal self behind the upper rear seat. The place where your speakers are, and third brake light, and such. It's explained in the kit.

Edit: I think.

If not, I'll explain it further if you end up going down that path.

 

[Melville]

Thanks very much for these responses. If it will not be practical to use a baby seat when the baby is bigger i will have to reevaluate whether i will be able to live with a 500E. I won't be able to get two cars and the 500E would just be for trips and weekends etc. I don't even really need a car, so getting a second car later to make a baby seat work well isn't an option. Hmmm. A lot to think about but I'm glad to be thinking about this now before i get a car.

 

[400Eric]

Please note my edited post above. Now that I think about it, there might only be a diagram that shows where to put the anchor bolts. At any rate, if I could figure it out.......

The long and the short of it is that it is doable. It's just a bit of a pain.

TBH there are other bigger pains to E500E ownership than this.

 

[Klink]

When I get a chance I will look up some of the MB literature on the subject. There is some out there and obviously Eric knows about it. With any luck, Clark is pulling it up and posting it as we speak!

 

[gsxr]

If necessary, you can convert the rear seat of a 500E to standard 3-place seating. The standard rear seats are easy to locate and cheap, as there is no demand. David Hendy (few miles north of you in CT somewhere) probably has thrown them out due to lack of interest!

 

[400Eric]

Even if he does that he will still have to take the additional step of doing the upgrade for the newer/better/safer/additional upper anchor thingie.

 

[Melville]

Living in a place like DC, space is a luxury I don 't really have. If I put in regular 3 place seats, I don't know what I would do with the 036 seats, but I know I wouldn't want to get rid of them. Thanks everyone for this very useful info. I'll keep on digging into this issue to see if I will be able to reasonably deal with it.

 

[Melville]

I've been doing research online to try to find a solution and it looks like some people with W123s have tried to build their own solutions by welding, drilling, etc. That is way out of my league. I'd be very curious to hear from people who have managed to find a solution to this problem.

As background about my mechanical abilities, see this youtube video. Sorry, I can't figure out how to embed it. So I guess my computer skills are also pretty bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lphrw69lcQ

 

[Klink]

This problem is by no means insurmountable. I will look this up when I get a chance. Others may do so as well.

 

[400Eric]

I've been doing research online to try to find a solution and it looks like some people with W123s have tried to build their own solutions by welding, drilling, etc. That is way out of my league. I'd be very curious to hear from people who have managed to find a solution to this problem.

As background about my mechanical abilities, see this youtube video. Sorry, I can't figure out how to embed it. So I guess my computer skills are also pretty bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lphrw69lcQ

Just be glad the E500E isn't a two door!

 

[Melville]

Just be glad the E500E isn't a two door!

For a while I was considering getting a gently used CL63. The depreciation on those is amazing, but I couldn't convince myself I'd be ok with just 2 doors.

To give others who might search later the benefit of the info I've found so far, I came across a thread on peachparts where someone with an E500 (who appears to be a member here so I sent him a PM) used just the seatbelts, with a separate belt tightener, to secure the baby seat. He said it didn't budge when he was hit head on by a truck. His child was three at the time.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum...ild-seat-latch-system-retrofit-1991-e300.html

From what I have gathered, at a certain age/size as indicated on the particular child seat you are using, the child seat should be turned to be forward facing and that's when the tether should be used. The tether system should be used until the child is 40 pounds.

I remember when I was a kid how much I liked riding in the back of my dad's toyota landcruiser. Child seats? It didn't even have seatbelts. Or seats!!! I sat on a toolbox.

 

[Klink]

I have come up with some appropriate parts to retrofit a top tether. I will get into my own car and see what the most appropriate spot might be. Threaded bores for this retrofit may already be in place in the hat shelf metal. I'll let you know what else I find out. Stay tuned...

 

[400Eric]

I remember when I was a kid how much I liked riding in the back of my dad's toyota landcruiser. Child seats? It didn't even have seatbelts. Or seats!!! I sat on a toolbox.

When I was in kinder my Dad had one of those little funky Renaults, I think it was called a Daphnie. This was a car from the late 50s/early 60s. I used to ride in the front seat, standing up, with my head sticking out of the sunroof! And my Dad was a cop at that time! The 60s was a completely different era.

 

[Melville]

I talked to a parts guy at a dealership and he found listings for parts for "child seat mounting". Two nuts (210-984-0025), two rivets (910-002-004105) and a threaded chuck (124-984-0525). He didn't know what exactly these parts would be used for or how they would be installed. The threaded chuck is clearly for the rear seat belt assembly (http://www.mbpartsworld.com/p/__/THREADED-CHUCK-THREADED-INSERT/7625682/1249840525.html) but it's not clear this does anything to set up a baby seat tether system. Anyone have any insights?

Edit - I also got an endorsement of this product in a 500E so this might solve the issue.

http://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Kids-...p+for+car+seat

Not having ever installed, or even thought about a baby seat before, my problem is the unknown unknown. I don't know what I need to be thinking about for this.

 

[400Eric]

I talked to a parts guy at a dealership and he found listings for parts for "child seat mounting". Two nuts (210-984-0025), two rivets (910-002-004105) and a threaded chuck (124-984-0525). He didn't know what exactly these parts would be used for or how they would be installed. The threaded chuck is clearly for the rear seat belt assembly (http://www.mbpartsworld.com/p/__/THREADED-CHUCK-THREADED-INSERT/7625682/1249840525.html) but it's not clear this does anything to set up a baby seat tether system. Anyone have any insights?

That's not what I was referring to. Wait for Klink.

 

[Dbreid]

I'll chime in as I daily drive my 500e and we use it to transport my son (now 7 months old). We have other cars, but I like driving the 500e the best, so it is the one we use when we all three go out to dinner, etc. Anyway, I know a lot of folks say to put seats in the middle of the rear, but that never made sense to me. It mkes it a PITA to get the kid in and out (especially for my wife) and makes it hard to set up those cool "rear-rearview mirror things (so you can look in the rearview and then see the forward facing mirror, which is pointed at your kid, who is backwards facing).

As a result, I mounted my car seat (we have a Britax B-Safe with the multiple bases, if you care) in the seat behind the passenger seat. Obviously the infant seat goes in rear facing (you want to stay rear facing as long as possible), and I decided not to retrofit LATCH. I looked at it a bunch (My Wife's Audi has em, and we have other cars with em), and I decided I liked the seatbelt mount better. I just followed the instructions for the car seat, and looped the shoulder belt through the correct places, and got in, put all my weight on the base (pushing down with my back against the roof of the car, and tightened the belt as hard as it would go.

Works perfectly.

No budging (side to side, or front to back), and I also have the front passenger seat adjusted just right so it just missed the front (rear?) or the car seat when installed, so even if something were to fair in a rear or front collision, there's nowhere to go.

In short, I have found the factor setup to be great. I really like the rear sunshade (use it all the time), and I have excellent visibility while driving. One thing I will say is that I needed to use one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Britax-USA-S8...363&sr=8-1&keywords=Britax+car+seat+protector

That helped keep my seats nice, and helped "grip" the seat better to make sure nothing slid around while tightening the seat down.

If you care (and are still shopping), this is the car seat we use:

http://www.amazon.com/Britax-B-Safe...ie=UTF8&qid=1410029426&sr=8-1&keywords=b-safe

And these bases:

http://www.amazon.com/Britax-B-Safe...ie=UTF8&qid=1410029426&sr=8-2&keywords=b-safe

And we use these strollers (We bought the Britax because they fit the BOB the best, and that thing is AWESOME):

http://www.amazon.com/Britax-2014-B...e=UTF8&qid=1410029484&sr=8-1&keywords=b-agile

http://www.amazon.com/BOB-Revolutio..._2?ie=UTF8&qid=1410029498&sr=8-2&keywords=BOB

All of that stuff fits the 500e for me. I will admit that to fit the BOB in the trunk, I take off the front wheel (which is easy) to make it easier to fit, but it will fit without doing that.

Congrats on the baby!

 

[8899]

This is my current set-up. Notice the 'lock-out' mechanism...copper looking thingy just above the seatbelt buckle. For children under two, it is recommended that this seat be in a rear-facing position.

 

[Melville]

Dbreid and 8899, thanks very much for all that info! It's very useful.

The sources I was reading said that when the seat faces forward, you need to use a tether that attaches to the top of the seat and then into an anchor point built into the car. Our cars predate those anchor points. It looks like my info might not have been correct since you (8899) are using a seat that faces forward. Does the tether only apply for certain kinds of seats? Did I just get totally off track in the info I was seeing?

 

[Dbreid]

For my part, I haven't yet tried any seat facing forward (I have a couple of years before that happens anyhow). The infant seats I have seen don't need that top mounting part, as they tend to have bases (like I linked above) and then the "basket" looking car seat clicks in to the seat base.

Super sweet, actually.

 

[400Eric]

Just to clairify:

As the child ages there will be a point when you will graduate to the kind of a seat that wants to have the top portion fastened to an "anchor" located behind the top of the upper rear seat. Only our W124s are too old and don't have them. (At least my '93 didn't.) There is a funky bolt kit available from the dealer that, when combined with extra pieces that come with the baby seat, will create the proper set-up.

Yes, I was referring to what's called a "top tether" that you need once the child gets big enough to face forward and you aren't using a base anymore. I was not referring to the "LATCH" system, which is also a newer car thing, but one that we can manage without.

Regards,
Eric

 

[Melville]

Thanks Eric for the reminder/clarification.

Do any of the experts here have any details on the bolt kit from the dealer?

 

[400Eric]

Klink says he's working on it:

I have come up with some appropriate parts to retrofit a top tether. I will get into my own car and see what the most appropriate spot might be. Threaded bores for this retrofit may already be in place in the hat shelf metal. I'll let you know what else I find out. Stay tuned...

 

[Klink]

I have found all the part numbers for the pieces that can be used to do a proper top tether attachment. To Eric's point I am only referring to a top tether attachment, not a "LATCH" (it's an acronym) apparatus. Interestingly enough, the major attachment piece has a 124 part number.

I haven't done so yet, but I need to look into my own car and see if I can find an appropriate spot to mount the hook. IIRC, there are several attachment points already pre-threaded. If there are no preinstalled points, there is an appropriate threaded reinforcement available that one can use to configure an attachment point. As I stated earlier, this is not an insurmountable problem.

 

[Dbreid]

OK, I have more to add to this thread!

When I posted the stuff above, I mentioned that I was using a Britax base. Turns out that this was smart, because Britax has a built in seatbelt "lock off". Essentially (you can read about this on the web, but it is a little confusing), before 1996, seat belts were allowed to work different ways. Some would lock "pre-crash" meaning once you pulled it out and let it back in a bit, it would lock. Some only lock when you are IN a crash. the Mercedes seems to have the latter type. Who cares, right?

Well, when you install a car seat using the seat belt, you obviously need it to install tight, and then LOCK there. So if you buckle the car seat in (essentially by looping the seatbelt through some special hole in the car seat, or the base) it will NOT "lock" in place.

One way around this is to use a car seat base with a built in "lock off". What this is is a little "clamp" thing that clamps both the lap part and the shoulder part of the belt together. So you tighten the heck out of it, then clamp it down, and it cannot move.

This is confusing even to type, let alone read, so look at this page:

http://www.britaxusa.com/learning-center/superior-ease-of-use/built-in-lock-offs

Talks about "built in lockoffs"

So the base I use looks like this one... You can see the "lockoff" is the grey thing in the middle with the belts passing through it.

http://www.rei.com/zoom/gg/a8bf1264-6882-4086-9df2-3b4913f3607c.jpg/440

Hope this helps clarify how my seat is installed.

 

[8899]

OK, I have more to add to this thread!

When I posted the stuff above, I mentioned that I was using a Britax base. Turns out that this was smart, because Britax has a built in seatbelt "lock off". Essentially (you can read about this on the web, but it is a little confusing), before 1996, seat belts were allowed to work different ways. Some would lock "pre-crash" meaning once you pulled it out and let it back in a bit, it would lock. Some only lock when you are IN a crash. the Mercedes seems to have the latter type. Who cares, right?

Well, when you install a car seat using the seat belt, you obviously need it to install tight, and then LOCK there. So if you buckle the car seat in (essentially by looping the seatbelt through some special hole in the car seat, or the base) it will NOT "lock" in place.

One way around this is to use a car seat base with a built in "lock off". What this is is a little "clamp" thing that clamps both the lap part and the shoulder part of the belt together. So you tighten the heck out of it, then clamp it down, and it cannot move.

This is confusing even to type, let alone read, so look at this page:

http://www.britaxusa.com/learning-center/superior-ease-of-use/built-in-lock-offs

Talks about "built in lockoffs"

So the base I use looks like this one... You can see the "lockoff" is the grey thing in the middle with the belts passing through it.

http://www.rei.com/zoom/gg/a8bf1264-6882-4086-9df2-3b4913f3607c.jpg/440

Hope this helps clarify how my seat is installed.

This is what I referred to in post #2 and post #21. I'm not sure if this "built-in" feature is available on standard car seats (as pictured in post #21), but have seen it on other infant car seats....that is those types of car seats that have a base section and and then a separate removable seat section. Thanks.

 

[Melville]

That's great! Thanks Klink, Dbreid and 8899! I owe you one (which you can split three ways)!

 

[400Eric]

What about me? I'm the one who turned you on to the top tether part that Klink is now pursuing.

 

[Melville]

What about me? I'm the one who turned you on to the top tether part that Klink is now pursuing.

Yup, I owe you one too. Thanks Eric!

 

[remotemark]

Any reason you can't just tether to one of the head rest posts? That's what I had my kid's forward facing seat tied to (together with the ratcheting clip replacement) when we were hit head on by the Toyota Sequoia.

 

[Melville]

Any reason you can't just tether to one of the head rest posts? That's what I had my kid's forward facing seat tied to (together with the ratcheting clip replacement) when we were hit head on by the Toyota Sequoia.

I think my wife will want an "official" solution to the tether issue. From your experience it sounds like using the head rest post might be safe, but I'm not sure that will be enough for her.

 

[8899]

You know, I'm not sure that all current (keep in mind, these things do have expiration dates) child safety seats require cars to accomodate the tether feature in order to be 'operated' safely.

 

[remotemark]

I think my wife will want an "official" solution to the tether issue. From your experience it sounds like using the head rest post might be safe, but I'm not sure that will be enough for her.

That's what the Pennsylvania State Police told me was appropriate. Does that make it official?

 

[400Eric]

I have 4 other W124s, and I'll admitt that I didn't do the retrofit to any of them. I only did it to one. And I'll admitt that I did do the headrest thing when I carried the kids in one of the other 4 Benzers. You just have to decide how much harping from the wife you can tolerate. I'm not able to tolerate much myself. Drives me nuts.

 

[Dbreid]

OK, I have more updates. All of this talk about car seats coincides with my son getting huge, so it was time to figure out which convertible car seat to use (he is outgrowing the infant car seat, or whill shortly). So after a while of reading reviews, and trying things at stores, I decided on this one:

http://www.amazon.com/RECARO-Perfor...d=1410548850&sr=8-1&keywords=Performance+Ride

We actually need two of them (one for each car my wife and I use daily), but my wife and I agreed that I would buy one, see how it fit in both cars, and then if she liked it, we could either get a second Recaro, or a different one.

As mentioned above, the Recaro doesn't have a built in "Lock-off" clamp, so I had to use one of these:

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/drm/74356/image/3/

After a little bit of measuring, re-measuring and putting all my weight on the seat to get it as tight as I possibly could, I can report that it installs very well in our cars, and fits nicely rear facing behind the passenger seat. My little rear view baby=mirror thing works great, and so far so good!

 

[8899]

As mentioned above, the Recaro doesn't have a built in "Lock-off" clamp, so I had to use one of these:

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/drm/74356/image/3/

Yep, that's what I use and you can see it installed above in post #21.

 

[Melville]

Thanks everyone for this amazing information. I really appreciate it. There is a great community in this forum that is hard to beat.

 

[Dbreid]

One other quick thing. When I installed the Convertible seat, the angle wasnt quite right. Even with the car seat reclined (in the rear facing position), I couldn't quite get it to lay "back" enough so my son was comfortable. I read in the manuals that this is sometimes an issue, so they sell a thing to help fix it.

I got one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Diono-Rite-Se...ompl_ba_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=0HPB24TK5YH9TEGTQC0E

And that worked pretty well.

 

[400Eric]

034 owners have the middle position as an option, and they will find that that middle position will give them a different angle option.

I'm gonna have to re-visit all of this stuff soon enough myself as our youngest just turned 6 months old.

 

[Dbreid]

Bumping this back up. I now need to turn my car seat forward facing. Klink, any update on bolt kit for the top tether?

 

[nocfn]

Hey nobody take offense here, but at age 50, I remember cars without seatbelts, let alone a car seat that was not designed for safety but parents... Sheesh times have changed (mb first to have the tether in the W126)

 

[Dbreid]

OK, I just talked to the dealer, and I gambled on ordering a few things based on this page: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w12...4434-w126-child-car-seat-tether-brackets.html

We shall see what arrives from Germany, and if I can make any of it work!

 

[Klink]

Bumping this back up. I now need to turn my car seat forward facing. Klink, any update on bolt kit for the top tether?

Oy, I'm nowhere near my car for a few weeks. I'll see if I can find a late 124 around here to poke my head in...

 

[Klink]

In this 1994 124 I found this pre-drilled attachment point (?). It is on the forward vertical section of the rear wall, positioned at about midway between the forward detent latch points for the first aid cover. Here is a photo taken from inside the trunk:

 

[tanger]

FWIW, I installed a Britax Frontier front facing by doing the following (I thought I shared my install on this board but maybe I forgot to)

I removed the bottom cushion
Bought 2 harness mounts off Rennline (http://www.rennline.com/Harness-Mount-Door-Side/productinfo/SA03/)
Uninstalled the little plastic "pocket" between the seat and the door to access the seat belt mount
Installed one of the rennline harness mounts at the door side seat belt mount
Then went to the center and installed the other rennline harness mount to the center seat belt mount.
The 2 rennline seatbelt mounts are now your latch mounts.
I also used the shoulder belt through the car seat for redundancy.
Worked great with hardly any car seat movement.

EDIT: Found my post from a few years ago.
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1929

 

[Dbreid]

Ok, I found the spot Klink took a picture of, and it looks like that is correct, but the issue for the 500 is that it is in the CENTER. That would mean that the seat would have to go in the middle of the rear seat, which is obviously a no-go.

 

[Klink]

Ok, I found the spot Klink took a picture of, and it looks like that is correct, but the issue for the 500 is that it is in the CENTER. That would mean that the seat would have to go in the middle of the rear seat, which is obviously a no-go.

Why is that a no go? I would think that's exactly where you want it. Anyway, as you can see, there is nothing stopping you from making identically configured holes in that particular area of the shelf anywhere you want, as long as you were using the appropriate force distributing threaded plate behind it.