20" wheels on our E500E

[500AMM]

Hello E500E lovers.

Do someone have experience with 20" wheels on the E500E? The biggest I've seen around in here is 19".

I guess it's not any special precautions for the E500E cars, except changes in the handling like less flexibilty etc.. Another thing is added weight in the outer circumference on the wheels, giving higher pheriperal forces which means slower acceleration and decelaration in theory. What happens to that in real life and how much it means, I don't know.
But I have to admit my weakness for big wheels - it is soooo many nice set-up to see.

-a-

 

[gerryvz]

I think there have been two or three folks over at 500Ex who have gone as large as 19" with no issue, including Jeff Wong. I don't remember that anyone has done a 20", at least without mods. Maybe one guy did it. Come to think of it ... I've seen photos of 20s. IMHO that's "dub" territory ;-)

But (if I remember correctly) the consensus has been that a 19-Zoll looks a bit too large for the car, and also has commensurate ride quality/harshness issues.

Most folks feel that a 17- or an 18-Zoll is best from a (respectively) ride quality and looks perspective. I'm a firm believer in 18-Zoll wheels myself.

For drag-racing wheels, I recommend a 15-Zoll or 16-Zoll steel wheel.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[michel]

I have had it for 1 day, tires to flat, driving sucks and your brakes looks like they come of an A-klasse.

Definitly a no same as 19 inch, 16, 17 and 18 are the sizes for a 500.

 

[500AMM]

Yes, this is my comprehension too, especially regarding the driving characteristics. To keep the wheel rolling diameter whitin the limits, the profile will be too low and lose all flexibility. But the look may not be that strange, it depends on the choosen rim style. But the standard brakes will appear very tiny. So 20" and BBK (big brake kit) goes hand in hand to get a good look.

It's pity that many of the rim makers now offers from 20" and up?! This locks out many alternatives. 19" could be an alternative but they must be light weight, which means forged wheels. I have the 18" MAE and 17" AMG Aero, both 3-modular with forged OZ rings, and they are very light and strong. At the moment I refurbish the AMG Aeros and the rings are so light! I also have a set of 18" AMG mono II which are quite heavy compared to the forged wheels. But the AMG mono II are even among the lighter one-piece cast wheels, so that is a good choice too.

-a-

 

[gsxr]

In case anyone needs a BBK to fill up the big wheels, I've got a set of the Silver Arrow Brembos available...

 

[Honza]

Hi Arnt, ask Bernard He has got 20" Brabus Monoblock III on his Brabus E60 Limited because of the really BIG Movit´brake kit.

http://www.e500.cz/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=511

 

[michel]

Hi Arnt, ask Bernard He has got 20" Brabus Monoblock III on his Brabus E60 Limited because of the really BIG Movit´brake kit.

http://www.e500.cz/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=511

These are only nice for the picture, driving is another story.

And even on the pics the whole car is out of balans with 20" wheels and in my opinion this is to much.

max 18" better is 17", and yes I have had all types under my car.

 

[500AMM]

These are only nice for the picture, driving is another story.

And even on the pics the whole car is out of balans with 20" wheels and in my opinion this is to much.

max 18" better is 17", and yes I have had all types under my car.

Michel,

I partly agree, but it's a question about style and preferences. Cool wheels on a modified car may not give satisfactory running characteristics, so it's always a compromise. The wheel design is also conclusive and in some cases they can give a strange look on the car. Have a look at the rear wheels set-up on my SuperMerc when I picked it up in Zürich. The 18" MAE themselves are great wheels and in mint condition. But they protrude 10mm and have 50-60mm clearance from the fender. They look like freakin donuts on the car IMHO. I have now lowered the car 25mm and taken of the 10mm spacer and got a much better look.

My preferences says 19" as max. for a couple of reasons. When going up from 18" to 19" we normally lower the profile with 5% for the same tire width. But I wouldn't do that, but keeping the profile to maintain the flexibility as with 18". The tires rolling diameter would then exceed the standard 16" wheels with 4-5% which is not too bad. The proportions between rim and tire should also give good appearance on the car. I would lower the car a bit more and adjust the camber and caster accordingly.

Cheers
-arnt-

 

[500AMM]

Hi Arnt, ask Bernard He has got 20" Brabus Monoblock III on his Brabus E60 Limited because of the really BIG Movit´brake kit.

http://www.e500.cz/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=511

Hi Jan.

Thanks for the great info about Bernhard. I think I have to give him a call now about several things.

Cheers
-arnt-

 

[gsxr]

My preferences says 19" as max. for a couple of reasons. When going up from 18" to 19" we normally lower the profile with 5% for the same tire width. But I wouldn't do that, but keeping the profile to maintain the flexibility as with 18". The tires rolling diameter would then exceed the standard 16" wheels with 4-5% which is not too bad. The proportions between rim and tire should also give good appearance on the car.

I agree with Arnt. On the .036 chassis, either a 17" or 18" works great and looks great too. I think 19" is the reasonable limit, and anything 20"+ is pure bling. If you need brakes large enough that they won't fit under 18" wheels, you better have over 600hp under the hood.

There's a point of diminishing returns with all this in regards to braking power and the weight of large brakes/wheels/tires... huge brakes/wheels/tires are heavy, and can actually *reduce* your car's acceleration performance in exchange for looking cool (big wheels) or stopping fade-free (big brakes). I've become a lot more sensitive to this after discovering that a 5-10 lb change in wheel/tire weight makes a very significant change in dragstrip performance (at least 1-2 tenths, which translates to 10-15hp... maybe more). Really big/heavy setups would be even worse. My car has always run its absolute quickers & fastest times with the stock 16", 8-hole wheels.

For reference, stock 500E 8-hole wheels weigh approx 23.5 lbs and with a new tire mounted they will be approx 48 lbs (this varies by the brand / model of tire, and will drop 3-5 lbs as the tire wears down to the 2/32 min tread depth). My target is to keep any aftermarket wheel/tire package at least below 50 lbs each with new tires, preferably less. Check the specs on new tires, you'd be surprised at the different weight between brands for the same tire size. Tire Rack now includes weight in their specs - very useful.

 

[500AMM]

Dave, that's my worries too - the weight increase. I'm tempted to say most affordable big wheels, are too heavy. To get the weight down we are definitively talking about forged 3-modular wheels, probably a few brands 2-modular. And the price is 3-4 times higher. I guess it's other amusing things to put that money into, a limited slip diff. would be nice.

-arnt-

 

[gsxr]

Exactly. In general, for max (acceleration) performance, it makes sense to stay with the smallest diameter wheel you can live with cosmetically (I think 17's are just fine) and just make sure they're not excessively heavy. Example - the 9-hole Brabus Monoblock III wheels, in 17x8.0 size, look awesome. But they are porky at 29 lbs each! Ouch. That's a 20% weight penalty compared to stock. I'm happy with anything under 24 lbs, preferably under 22-20 but as you said they are hard to find and often very expensive.

This is also why I like the Silver Arrow 334mm Brembo brake upgrade... it weighs almost the same as the stock iron 320mm Ate setup, offering significantly more braking power and fade resistance with basically zero weight penalty. But yes, things like LSD (which help put power to the ground) make more sense than big wheels, if you don't mind the LSD being "invisible" (nobody can see it, lol!).

 

[szvook]

Unless the wheels are forged, the weight will play a factor no matter what for larger wheels. A non forged 20” wheel must weight a ton, and to have that weight (aside from the calipers and rotors) on the car is useless, unless the car is for show. IMHO, even 19” wheels are too big for our cars and doubt the ride is tolerable, unless you are on glass.

Or magnesium wheels might be another option. Or since some manufactures have started to make carbon fiber barrels, additional weight can be saved there if one must have larger wheels.

 

[maggot]

...

 

[500AMM]

I have a set of Magnesium Dymag's 8 x 18 front and 10 x18 rears. Fronts weigh 8kg and rears 9kg. That's about 17.5 and 20 IIb. They are for sale but shipping would be expensive I imagine.

Hi maggot.

The wheels looks good. Magnesium wheels are sensitive for cracks, dependent on the age and loads they have been exposed to. What's the age on yours, and have you checked for any cracks? What's your asking price?

Since you are located in UK you may know something about Dymag. Due to the global economy recession they ran into financial problems about a year ago and became bankerupt. Are they up and running again?

-arnt-

 

[500AMM]

Unless the wheels are forged, the weight will play a factor no matter what for larger wheels. A non forged 20” wheel must weight a ton, and to have that weight (aside from the calipers and rotors) on the car is useless, unless the car is for show. IMHO, even 19” wheels are too big for our cars and doubt the ride is tolerable, unless you are on glass.

Or magnesium wheels might be another option. Or since some manufactures have started to make carbon fiber barrels, additional weight can be saved there if one must have larger wheels.

Hi Steve.

Yes, these wheels are very nice, but veeeery expensive too. In accordance to the info below, Dymag were bankrupt;
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1267412
But in accordance to the the next web below they are still available;
http://www.speedforsale.com/nissangtrpa ... p-942.html

Cheers
-arnt-

 

[szvook]

these wheels are very nice, but veeeery expensive too.

Completely agree. The only way to get light and strong wheels is to pay for them, there’s just no way around it, unless one can get used wheels in good condition. It took me a while to come to terms with pursuing light and forged wheels. If I didn’t have musical gear that I wasn’t using anymore that I could sell, my HRE wheels would have to wait for a year or two before I had the cash to buy them. And since I only wanted one set of wheels on my car, my decision was easily made for which brand of wheels to get.

The Carbon Magnesium Wheels are very light, as you can see the weight is quite low for 20” wheels - 20"x9.5" (17 pound weight) in the front and 20"x11" (20 pound weight) in the rear - that is more like it.

 

[500AMM]

Steve,

I had a look at your car under the "Owners and their cars". Your HRE's looks great, and you choosed to stay with 17" too, keeping the classic appearance on the car. Great car with the right mods IMO.


Cheers
-arnt-

-----------------
By the way - I saw your plans about acquiring a Victor steering wheel. I will probably swap mine to a new with Bird's Eye Maple wood, so mine will be for sale. Black leather, hazelnut wood. Close to mint condition, just "minor wear" on leather color some places, which I will brush up before any sale. PM me if you are interested and I pass over some pics.

 

[szvook]

Steve,

I had a look at your car under the "Owners and their cars". Your HRE's looks great, and you choosed to stay with 17" too, keeping the classic appearance on the car. Great car with the right mods IMO.


Cheers
-arnt-

-----------------
By the way - I saw your plans about acquiring a Victor steering wheel. I will probably swap mine to a new with Bird's Eye Maple wood, so mine will be for sale. Black leather, hazelnut wood. Close to mint condition, just "minor wear" on leather color some places, which I will brush up before any sale. PM me if you are interested and I pass over some pics.

Thank you, Arnt.

I kept to the 17” size to also have nice ride when get old and bitch about how bad the roads are. Your Victor steering wheel offer is very tempting, but I might pursue an all black leather steering wheel with potentially perforation added. My tuner has as a few Victor steering wheels with wood as well, but we will send one over to Victor to custom cover it with my choice of design and finish.

 

[500AMM]

(A sidetrack to the thread, but however...)

....My tuner has as a few Victor steering wheels with wood as well, but we will send one over to Victor to custom cover it with my choice of design and finish.

That sounds great. I've contacted Victor Germany, but I didn't feel any enthusiastic cooperation. I asked for a couple of alternatives for retrimming mine with Bird's Eye Maple items, but they would only sell the new one. I asked for refund of the German VAT on export items, but no. So I'm locked up to buy a new one and sell the other. Think that should go well.


-a-

 

[124036-009]

Hi Arnt, ask Bernard He has got 20" Brabus Monoblock III on his Brabus E60 Limited because of the really BIG Movit´brake kit.

http://www.e500.cz/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=511

Just an little update:
Now'a'days Bernard are running 10,5JX21 Brabus Monoblock VI(Maybach) with 295/25R21 rear 255/30R21 front dont know the width on front wheels

/Jack