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320 CE (M 104) - an automatic transmission saga

masinistul

Member
Member
Hello everyone!

Take your seats and buckle up, this is going to be a long one.

So I own a 1993 320 CE, pre-facelift M104 coupe with a 722.3 transmission showing a millage of 184.000 km on the dash. Last year I overhauled it myself (head gasket engine out job, timing, and all the gaskets/rings/sensors, probes, wear items, remanufactured wiring for engine, throttle, dash out evaporator core replacement, tranny out for seals and everything), and it ran well for a while. It`s still getting hot sometimes, around 110 degrees, but never got to the red line over 120. But now let`s talk about the transmission saga.

While on a mountain trip, a little spirited driving, I experienced some noise from the gearbox that got worse on the way back and stayed that way. Also, when the noise emerged, the transmission felt a little erratic with the changes, but everything came back to normal in a couple of days. The noise, like a whine, louder in reverse or 1st gear, was coming from the TC/front pump zone. I`ve driven the car a couple of times, short trips only, until it also developed an oil spill from the TC while reversing. Serious spills, leaving a red line on the asphalt. So I left it parked for a while until I finished my garage with a lift and everything for these kinds of jobs.

Two weeks ago I took the gearbox out and found out that the pump bearing was now a part of the torque converter. I had a spare transmission from a W210 (also a 722.3, but without the rear section with a cable speedo drive), the good part was that the pump and TC were similar to mine. So I swapped the whole pump/reverse piston assembly and the torque converter, changed the filter, new oil, and voila: it worked like a dream... for a while. Because I can hear the problem coming back.

So the gearbox works wonderfully, very smooth changes, but after 1000 km driven last weekend, I noticed a new whine coming back from under the car. More specifically, from the same pump/TC area. Can be heard while in Neutral or in Park, it`s quite loud and with a changing pitch. I bet it`s the same pump bushing about to be ripped again. So why does my car eat those bearings/bushings?

I`ll give you the first theory. So, when I replaced the rear crank seal, I changed the flex plate bolts. Didn't bother to measure the original ones for any stretching, just ordered new ones. But the new ones (original code from Mercedes) came with a different shape, longer threads, and bigger heads (torx instead of M12 star-shaped heads - I`m attaching pictures). I installed them, torqued them, and didn't bother to measure anything. But in the light of my gearbox problem, I started thinking: could be the bolts, with their big heads, pushing the torque converter against the pump and it`s destroying its bearing? How are the tolerances there, can 2-3 mm make a difference?
 

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  • old flexplate bolts.JPG
    old flexplate bolts.JPG
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  • new flexplate bols.JPG
    new flexplate bols.JPG
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It`s still getting hot sometimes, around 110 degrees, but never got to the red line over 120.
110°C is NOT normal. You should investigate further, particularly the fan clutch and radiator are suspect if old or original. Typical temps are 85°-100°C on the gauge under most conditions.


But now let`s talk about the transmission saga.
So why does my car eat those bearings/bushings?

I`ll give you the first theory. So, when I replaced the rear crank seal, I changed the flex plate bolts. Didn't bother to measure the original ones for any stretching, just ordered new ones. But the new ones (original code from Mercedes) came with a different shape, longer threads, and bigger heads (torx instead of M12 star-shaped heads - I`m attaching pictures). I installed them, torqued them, and didn't bother to measure anything. But in the light of my gearbox problem, I started thinking: could be the bolts, with their big heads, pushing the torque converter against the pump and it`s destroying its bearing? How are the tolerances there, can 2-3 mm make a difference?
Unless the taller bolt head is touching something (which seems unlikely), it wouldn't cause a problem. When pulling the converter up to the flex plate, it should move up easily with your fingers, and seat flush on the flex plate - no tools required. If so, the bolt heads are probably not the issue.

Any chance there's somehow misalignment between the transmission bellhousing and engine?

@Klink and @jhodg5ck might have seen something bizarre like this before. I've never heard of it.

:detective:
 
110°C is NOT normal. You should investigate further, particularly the fan clutch and radiator are suspect if old or original. Typical temps are 85°-100°C on the gauge under most conditions.
It’s going up to 110 degrees in heavy traffic, while outside temperatures reach 40 degrees in the shades. Everything is new: radiator, water pump, hoses, termostat, fan clutch. I can even hear the engine fan roaring when I accelerate. This is the normal way I think.
 
It’s going up to 110 degrees in heavy traffic, while outside temperatures reach 40 degrees in the shades. Everything is new: radiator, water pump, hoses, termostat, fan clutch. I can even hear the engine fan roaring when I accelerate. This is the normal way I think.
40°C (104°F) is pretty warm. If it does not exceed 107-110°C on the gauge (also confirm the twin electric fans engage at 107C)... AND, in cooler ambients (20°-30°C) it runs cooler than 100°C... that may be ok. But if it's running 95-100C in cooler temps, something's off.

If the condenser hasn't been blown out to remove debris/detritus, that's another thing to check... but requires radiator removal.

:tumble:
 
Are the centering pins(2) still present between block and transmission housing?
Also does the transmission/block mating surface fully align or are they being pulled together by the bolts?
If there is any slight tension the TC might be not fully/properly inserted.
 

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