500E 500E and 928 GTS

[JCM1]

I just saw this video and felt I should share with the forum.

A Porsche 928 and a Mercedes-Benz 500E Make a Perfect V8 Pair

They're two very different cars, but together, they make a heck of a two-car garage.

www.roadandtrack.com

I also have a 1992 500E and a 1993 928GTS - for me these are among the two best German V8s out there and both put a big smile on my face when I drive them!

Hope you all enjoy!

All the best,

Joe

 

[Jlaa]

I just saw this video and felt I should share with the forum.

A Porsche 928 and a Mercedes-Benz 500E Make a Perfect V8 Pair

They're two very different cars, but together, they make a heck of a two-car garage.

www.roadandtrack.com

I also have a 1992 500E and a 1993 928GTS - for me these are among the two best German V8s out there and both put a big smile on my face when I drive them!

Hope you all enjoy!

All the best,

Joe

@JCM1 I would be interested to hear you compare and contrast the driving experience of the 500E and the 928GTS —- especially if both are automatics!

 

[gsxr]

Doesn't @Klink own some of each?

 

[Jlaa]

@Klink owns a non GTS 928. The GTS version has metal fender flares and is 5.4L, which is 400cc more displacement than “pedestrian” 928s. It is the perfect complement to the E500E or perhaps a 6 liter 036.

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Beautifully shot video in minimalistic style, presenting two fabulous autos, thanks for sharing!

 

[maw1124]

Funny, the 928 GTS was next on my list when I was having trouble finding my E5E. And then, just like that... Still very nice cars if you can source a good one. I recall this story though.

Cheers,

maw

 

[alabbasi]

@Klink owns a non GTS 928. The GTS version has metal fender flares and is 5.4L, which is 400cc more displacement than “pedestrian” 928s. It is the perfect complement to the E500E or perhaps a 6 liter 036.

You can really tell the difference that 400cc makes to a pedestrian car from the size of the fender flares.

 

[JCM1]

@JCM1 I would be interested to hear you compare and contrast the driving experience of the 500E and the 928GTS —- especially if both are automatics!

Well I really enjoy driving both!

I've had the GTS since 2007 and have done a lot to address some of its well know problems, i.e., excessive oil consumption (no oil drain back holes on the pistons) by installing a crankcase vacuum system, upgraded the water pump, alternator, etc. Now recently ordered the EZK-S, a chip for the LH module that creates a custom advance map for each cylinder!! I expect that will make an already peppy engine even more enjoyable.

They have different personalities but also many similarities. As you may know, the 928 GTS shares the same transmission as the 500E albeit with a slightly different shifting setup - Porsche set up the GTS to stay in gear until you reach red line or back off on the accelerator. Also, I think the gearing is different for the 500E with the final drive a 1:1 while the GTS is a bit lower I think allowing it a top speed of 171 mph. Both have the same drop a gear when full throttle is applied.

The 500E has undergone a lot of improvements since I first got it sigh unseen in 2017. Transmission rebuild, complete redo of the suspension, air ride, bushings, power steering, fuel pumps, new upper and lower wiring harnesses, new headliner, SA brakes, fresh exhaust/resonator, cats, and significant cutting/welding to address rust in the battery tray, rocker panels and most recently on the rood trim panel clips. I also just replaced the LH module (after hearing the FP relay ticking away under the rear passenger seat) and replace the distributor rotors and caps with fresh Bosch units that have been notched to allow for proper venting of moisture. All I can say is WOW what a difference in performance. Pre- LH/distributor changes the 500E was a quick and steady ride but now it's a monster waiting only for a jab from the right foot.

Driving the 500e at speed is a bit more confidence inspiring than the GTS which is significantly stiffer and has the Weissach rear link preventing over steer on deceleration. The 4 link suspension of the 500e is rock steady and makes high speed driving less of a big deal than in the GTS. I often find I'm driving much faster than I think in the 5000E! What a Q-ship!

I have yet to take the 500E on a long trip and do look forward to doing that once this terrible COVID 19 pandemic is behind us. It is really a fantastic highway cruiser and I hope to take it to Laguna Seca for the races next year. The GTS is a pure pleasure to drive at high speed. On a return trip to Vancouver from Laguna Seca I was well in to the triple digits for extended periods of time on I5 and the car was so settled and hunkered down it was incredible. It really comes into its own above 130 mph!

Breaking is similar now that I have the Silver Arrows and the big difference is that with 500E I have room for 4 whereas with the GTS it's two adults and maybe a small pet in back. Fuel economy is about the same.. depending on driving style with low 20 mpg for each when driven in compliance with highway speed limits.

I feel very fortunate to have two of the finest German V8s made!


All the best,


Joe

 

[Jlaa]

Well I really enjoy driving both!

I've had the GTS since 2007 and have done a lot to address some of its well know problems, i.e., excessive oil consumption (no oil drain back holes on the pistons) by installing a crankcase vacuum system, upgraded the water pump, alternator, etc. Now recently ordered the EZK-S, a chip for the LH module that creates a custom advance map for each cylinder!! I expect that will make an already peppy engine even more enjoyable.

They have different personalities but also many similarities. As you may know, the 928 GTS shares the same transmission as the 500E albeit with a slightly different shifting setup - Porsche set up the GTS to stay in gear until you reach red line or back off on the accelerator. Also, I think the gearing is different for the 500E with the final drive a 1:1 while the GTS is a bit lower I think allowing it a top speed of 171 mph. Both have the same drop a gear when full throttle is applied.

The 500E has undergone a lot of improvements since I first got it sigh unseen in 2017. Transmission rebuild, complete redo of the suspension, air ride, bushings, power steering, fuel pumps, new upper and lower wiring harnesses, new headliner, SA brakes, fresh exhaust/resonator, cats, and significant cutting/welding to address rust in the battery tray, rocker panels and most recently on the rood trim panel clips. I also just replaced the LH module (after hearing the FP relay ticking away under the rear passenger seat) and replace the distributor rotors and caps with fresh Bosch units that have been notched to allow for proper venting of moisture. All I can say is WOW what a difference in performance. Pre- LH/distributor changes the 500E was a quick and steady ride but now it's a monster waiting only for a jab from the right foot.

Driving the 500e at speed is a bit more confidence inspiring than the GTS which is significantly stiffer and has the Weissach rear link preventing over steer on deceleration. The 4 link suspension of the 500e is rock steady and makes high speed driving less of a big deal than in the GTS. I often find I'm driving much faster than I think in the 5000E! What a Q-ship!

I have yet to take the 500E on a long trip and do look forward to doing that once this terrible COVID 19 pandemic is behind us. It is really a fantastic highway cruiser and I hope to take it to Laguna Seca for the races next year. The GTS is a pure pleasure to drive at high speed. On a return trip to Vancouver from Laguna Seca I was well in to the triple digits for extended periods of time on I5 and the car was so settled and hunkered down it was incredible. It really comes into its own above 130 mph!

Breaking is similar now that I have the Silver Arrows and the big difference is that with 500E I have room for 4 whereas with the GTS it's two adults and maybe a small pet in back. Fuel economy is about the same.. depending on driving style with low 20 mpg for each when driven in compliance with highway speed limits.

I feel very fortunate to have two of the finest German V8s made!


All the best,


Joe

Thanks for this lovely comparison / contrast write up. This is the most informative writeup about the similarities and differences in driving experience between these two cars I have ever found ..... anywhere. One of these days I would like to own a 928 ... and go through what you have done to address known weaknesses. Specifically, I would like an Aventura Green 928 GTS, which I saw for sale on BaT some time ago, but elected not to purchase.

Perhaps when/if I move to Nevada and have more time on my hands to tackle a 3rd pleasure car, I will do so. As it stands, I don't have enough mental capacity and time to immerse myself in a 3rd pleasure car. That said, I like 928s not only because the 928 represents the ne-plus-ultra of 80s shapes to me, but also because I find the community and tribal knowledge to be excellent, without the "hey look at me" attitude that afflicts the community of rear engined sport-beetle owners.

 

[maw1124]

As it stands, I don't have enough mental capacity and time to immerse myself in a 3rd pleasure car.

This part... I feel blessed to have around me guys who are willing to think through these projects with me. Just this week, Satish stepped up once again to solve a niggling bluetooth issue on the S55 that I couldn’t get anyone else to think about. Without friends like him, Rex at German Cars, Marc at Sun Valley, @Klink, @gsxr and others on this board, I would not be able to keep the ones I have let alone entertain more. As it stands, the journey continues...

maw

 

[JCM1]

Thanks for this lovely comparison / contrast write up. This is the most informative writeup about the similarities and differences in driving experience between these two cars I have ever found ..... anywhere. One of these days I would like to own a 928 ... and go through what you have done to address known weaknesses. Specifically, I would like an Aventura Green 928 GTS, which I saw for sale on BaT some time ago, but elected not to purchase.

Perhaps when/if I move to Nevada and have more time on my hands to tackle a 3rd pleasure car, I will do so. As it stands, I don't have enough mental capacity and time to immerse myself in a 3rd pleasure car. That said, I like 928s not only because the 928 represents the ne-plus-ultra of 80s shapes to me, but also because I find the community and tribal knowledge to be excellent, without the "hey look at me" attitude that afflicts the community of rear engined sport-beetle owners.

Thanks for the kind words! I can vouch for a similar group of e500e type enthusiasts that reside on Rennlist to support 928s. A great community of folks with lots of experience and advice. There are also a select group of suppliers that keep owners cars on the road with replacement parts and upgrades.

All the best,

Joe

 

[alabbasi]

Some of the 928 guys that live in DFW are pretty good guys. I tucked mine into a corner about 4 years ago and it hasnt moved since. I should crank it and see if it still runs.

 

[JAB12]

Some of the 928 guys that live in DFW are pretty good guys. I tucked mine into a corner about 4 years ago and it hasnt moved since. I should crank it and see if it still runs.

View attachment 119960

Pretty good stuff in there it seems. Have you ever considered selling any? If there were ever 2 cars to keep: A Porsche and an E5E would be it. to the OP thanks for sharing the video. Pretty bleak scenery in Iceland so the cars keep the gentleman sane.

 

[dionphaneuf]

Love the 928! Used to have a 944 S2 which was a bit more nimble than either car, but only hear great things about the 928GTS and can only imagine what the car would be like with twice the motor size as the S2!

 

[maw1124]

If there were ever 2 cars to keep: A Porsche and an E5E would be it.

^^^ what he said... I’d add a MB S55 and BMW E46M to that list... I’m trying to figure out if there are any others that don’t wear Porsche badges.

maw

 

[alabbasi]

Pretty good stuff in there it seems. Have you ever considered selling any? If there were ever 2 cars to keep: A Porsche and an E5E would be it. to the OP thanks for sharing the video. Pretty bleak scenery in Iceland so the cars keep the gentleman sane.

All the time, whenever I do, i seem to add instead of subtract.

 

[JAB12]

All the time, whenever I do, i seem to add instead of subtract.

I know that feeling. PM me what else you have. Maybe I can help you subtract eventually. All the best..

 

[RicardoD]

I would love to drive a well sorted 928 GTS to compare against my E500. And I have noticed the strong community of 928 owners.

 

[maw1124]

I’ve considered this before, wondering how different they would actually be. Manual form 928 would certainly be different. But given the 129SL underpinnings and weight distribution of the E5E, I’m just not sure how different they would be. But I never found one to drive because my E5E showed up first.

maw

 

[alabbasi]

I have both an 88 928S and a 98 SL500. To me, the R129 is an evolution of the 928 that's more suited to me. The 928 is a GT car but it leans more sporty than GT in my opinion. Quick steering, super stuff structure and powerful brakes. The 98 SL500 is more refined, smoother engine, transmission etc. It leans strictly GT with no pretentions of being a sports car.

I've not driven mine in a long time because my R129 checks so many boxes that it does. For the boxes it does not check, the SL55 and V8V fill the gap (those two hardly ever get driven either).

 

[JCM1]

I find that I drive the 500E more now that it is mostly sorted out (still have a problem with water pooling in the driver and passenger foot wells. Thought the problem was due to rusted out trim clips for the roof but after fixing still have the problem. Next place to check is the wheel wells where water picked up by the tires must be leaking into the rocker panels. It has about 102,000 miles and is complete pleasure to drive.

The GTS only gets occasional road time but it is still a blast to drive. It has about 150,000 miles and is arrest me red so unlike the 500E it attracts attention. It is a also a lot stiffer, much lower and more violent when driven aggressively. Fortunately we have a very capable mechanic who has sorted out most of the problem issues and has helped me keep it in tip top condition. He also rebuilt the 500E's transmission which is very similar to the 928GTS'.

 

[alabbasi]

He also rebuilt the 500E's transmission which is very similar to the 928GTS'.

It's exactly the same (except the one in the 928 is mounted in the rear)

 

[maw1124]

Yeah, SL55 checks all boxes in this format... if it wasn’t for those headlights I would have bought a buddy’s back when he couldn’t give it away... Silver over Red ‘03, mechanic owned car with under 40k on the clock circa ‘14... man that thing was fun to drive, especially with the paddle shifters and top down... but I digress... what’s the V8V? “Quick steering, super stiff structure and powerful brakes” sounds plenty fun though.

maw

 

[alabbasi]

what’s the V8V?

One of these

 

[maw1124]

Ok…wow!! Just … wow!

Euro 1986 Porsche 928S

Bid for the chance to own a Euro 1986 Porsche 928S at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #63,519.

bringatrailer.com

I kinda would have wanted to commission and oversee the work myself, but… provided it was done properly… which it appears to have been… but. For instance, they mention a respray but the doors aren’t aligned and I still see swirl marks and the remnants of holes in the front bumper. Details. It’s interesting how they didn’t try to make it perfect for sale. I wonder if parts are abailable.

maw

 

[ccrelan]

Ok…wow!! Just … wow!

Euro 1986 Porsche 928S

Bid for the chance to own a Euro 1986 Porsche 928S at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #63,519.

bringatrailer.com

I kinda would have wanted to commission and oversee the work myself, but… provided it was done properly… which it appears to have been… but. For instance, they mention a respray but the doors aren’t aligned and I still see swirl marks and the remnants of holes in the front bumper. Details. It’s interesting how they didn’t try to make it perfect for sale. I wonder if parts are abailable.

maw

I used to own a 84 928 Euro S with the twin distributors. I believe this engine in the 86 car is the same as a USA model.

 

[alabbasi]

I used to own a 84 928 Euro S with the twin distributors. I believe this engine in the 86 car is the same as a USA model.

In 86, the ROW cars in the earlier body style still used SOHC 16V engines, although they made around 310hp. In 1985 Porsche introduced the 5.0 DOHC engine in the earlier body style which made 288hp for these US market only. This i believe are unofficially called the S3. Once the S4 was introduced, all of the regions used the same 32v engine.

I'd like to try an ROW 5 speed car as I'm more partial to the earlier body style, and I drove a 928 with a 5 speed once and it was a day and night difference to the automatic.

 

[maw1124]

The exact cutoffs are hard to parse through, but I thought the 5.0L, 300hp-ish cars were much later. See here... Porsche 928 - Wikipedia ... for this reason I'd always focused on an '89 or '93 car. Manual is the one to have but I don't like driving that way just yet. As I get older and drive fewer miles though, anything can change.

maw

 

[alabbasi]

The exact cutoffs are hard to parse through, but I thought the 5.0L, 300hp-ish cars were much later. See here... Porsche 928 - Wikipedia ... for this reason I'd always focused on an '89 or '93 car. Manual is the one to have but I don't like driving that way just yet. As I get older and drive fewer miles though, anything can change.

maw

I'm pretty sure that the ROW cars had 300hp from the introduction of the 928S, so i'm guessing sometime around 1982-1983? The twin dizzy ones made 310hp and they came later.

The 5 speed car that I drove with an 85 US 32V car. It was not in great shape, but the responsiveness compared to my 88 automatic was day and night. A lot of people prefer the auto in the 928. If there were better automatic transmission options to the 722.3, I may like it more too.

 

[maw1124]

I hear you. The Wiki timeline is guessing otherwise.

maw

 

[Matt-R20]

I guess I did this backward to most here, started with the 928 and adding in the 500e. Can’t wait to get the 500 in to compare. I think a 928 is well suited to the auto, and the manuals don’t shift like a Honda, but they come with dogleg 5spd’s which offer a unique experience. I’d say manual 928 and auto 500 is a great combo. GT models are the ones to get and the ‘89 is the only non airbag version and pretty rare. GTS’s had notable improvements, better sound deadening, easier steering and 6 speed which makes them easier to drive. But as many have said the early models are the pure design. Great video, thanks for sharing.

 

[maw1124]

@Matt-R20 how have you found the parts availability and service community to be with 928s? I've read and heard a lot of the folks who used to be expert in these going by the wayside (mainly the interior refurb folks). I suppose when I got serious about buying one, I'd join some chat room like I did for every other car to learn up and make a decision. But since you're here I figured I'd ask. I'd also call @Klink ...

maw

 

[oaklandw124]

I have a 1993 GTS 5-speed and a 1985 Euro twin dizzy 5 speed 928. Both are great cars. I'm in the process of doing the top end refresh on the GTS.

I would agree the 500E seems much more solid/planted than the 928 at higher speeds.

MAW, we need to meet up in the spring so you can go for a ride!

Matt-R20, nice looking S4 you have there. Correction, GTS manual is not a 6-speed, it is a 5-speed dogleg.

 

[maw1124]

@oaklandw124 I was on the same page before Delta this summer. I was on my way to play Blackheath one morning and started to call you on the way back. You and @Matt-R20 just laid out why I had landed on '89 or '93 cars. We'll connect soon.

Cheers,

maw

 

[oaklandw124]

Sounds good!

 

[alabbasi]

. GT models are the ones to get and the ‘89 is the only non airbag version and pretty rare. GTS’s had notable improvements, better sound deadening, easier steering and 6 speed which makes them easier to drive.

What?


@Matt-R20 how have you found the parts availability and service community to be with 928s?

@Matt-R20 how have you found the parts availability and service community to be with 928s?

If you live in DFW, it's real good as a specialist parts supplier and mechanic both live here.

 

[oaklandw124]

@Matt-R20 how have you found the parts availability and service community to be with 928s? I've read and heard a lot of the folks who used to be expert in these going by the wayside (mainly the interior refurb folks). I suppose when I got serious about buying one, I'd join some chat room like I did for every other car to learn up and make a decision. But since you're here I figured I'd ask. I'd also call @Klink ...

maw

The 928 community over at Rennlist.com is one of the best. Online resources are huge and there are quite a few events held each year across the country. Some great parts vendors, too. Both new and used. I would say this board and the 928 forum are two of the best in terms of resources for our cars.

 

[maw1124]

I have a 1993 GTS 5-speed and a 1985 Euro twin dizzy 5 speed 928. Both are great cars. I'm in the process of doing the top end refresh on the GTS.

I would agree the 500E seems much more solid/planted than the 928 at higher speeds.

MAW, we need to meet up in the spring so you can go for a ride!

Matt-R20, nice looking S4 you have there. Correction, GTS manual is not a 6-speed, it is a 5-speed dogleg.

@oaklandw124 does Satish care for those too?

maw

 

[oaklandw124]

@oaklandw124 does Satish care for those too?

maw

Satish has not seen my 928's yet. We have a couple of local guys that can do pretty much anything on a 928 so I work with them.

 

[Matt-R20]

I have a 1993 GTS 5-speed and a 1985 Euro twin dizzy 5 speed 928. Both are great cars. I'm in the process of doing the top end refresh on the GTS.

I would agree the 500E seems much more solid/planted than the 928 at higher speeds.

MAW, we need to meet up in the spring so you can go for a ride!

Matt-R20, nice looking S4 you have there. Correction, GTS manual is not a 6-speed, it is a 5-speed dogleg.

Yes, you are correct got my transaxles mixed up, 968 got a 6spd over the 944. Also my car is not an S4, its a GT.

 

[Matt-R20]

@Matt-R20 how have you found the parts availability and service community to be with 928s? I've read and heard a lot of the folks who used to be expert in these going by the wayside (mainly the interior refurb folks). I suppose when I got serious about buying one, I'd join some chat room like I did for every other car to learn up and make a decision. But since you're here I figured I'd ask. I'd also call @Klink ...

maw

Parts are pretty good, some stuff going away but still lots around. I’m lucky to be 10 minutes from Greg Brown and Precision Motorwerks who know these cars inside out. Also as someone else mentioned, 928 engagement on Rennlist is strong.