Great video from Jason Cammisa:
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500E vs M5, RS2 drag race - Cammisa Video
- Thread starter dionphaneuf
- Start date
Torque = Horses minus Ponies
maw
EDIT… And this is why only the 500E was a “must have” for me out of these cars… from the first time I rode in one… that Benz exhaust sound is really something distinctive for anyone here who doesn’t have one of these. Horses v Ponies is actually not joking, from someone who owns a BMW M car and a V8 Audi Wagon. Although in Tiptronic form the Allroad 4.2 doesn’t suffer from what plagued the RS2 here. The ZF 5-speed there is just as good as the 722.6 IMO.
maw
EDIT… And this is why only the 500E was a “must have” for me out of these cars… from the first time I rode in one… that Benz exhaust sound is really something distinctive for anyone here who doesn’t have one of these. Horses v Ponies is actually not joking, from someone who owns a BMW M car and a V8 Audi Wagon. Although in Tiptronic form the Allroad 4.2 doesn’t suffer from what plagued the RS2 here. The ZF 5-speed there is just as good as the 722.6 IMO.
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Actually the M119 does have variable valve timing! Technically it's a fixed advance of 20° for the intake cams only in a limited RPM range (to boost midrange torque), so it's a bit rudimentary compared to newer engines that have more variability on all 4 cams. Still, this was space-shuttle type stuff in 1990.
It probably was mentioned somewhere, but might have been fine print, and not discussed in detail? It originally debuted with the R129 500SL in 1990. Screenshot from the FSM below:
I believe Honda had its VTEC system back then, and wasn't BMW phasing in its VANOS or other VVT system in that time frame? MB by no means had a monopoly on VVT in the early 1990s.Actually the M119 does have variable valve timing! Technically it's a fixed advance of 20° for the intake cams only in a limited RPM range (to boost midrange torque), so it's a bit rudimentary compared to newer engines that have more variability on all 4 cams. Still, this was space-shuttle type stuff in 1990.
VTEC - Wikipedia
EDIT: BMW introduced VANOS for the 1992 model year.
Sure, it is in all of the major magazine reviews and such. Not highlighted as a Space Shuttle advantage, but certainly mentioned. Having taken my adjusters apart in 2020, when I did my Top-End Refresh™, I learned how they work. By no means are they rocket science. That technology could have been introduced 20 years earlier IMHO given that the system is largely mechanical/electromagnetic.
I believe @dionphaneuf's murder-machine has new Magnaflow catalysts, Flieben catalyst-back exhaust, still-stumbling-wetness-distributor caps/rotors/insulators, and over 200K+ miles on the clock....Seems like a slightly stronger than normal 500E in terms of ET and trap speed (or an exceptionally good launch). Typical would be around 14.1-14.2 at 99 MPH.
Best I ever got was 12.89 seconds at 108 MPH, but that was with NOS and drag radials.
Looks like the Honda system was introduced in Japan/Europe cars circa 1989, and was first seen in USA in 1991 on the NSX?
It would be interesting to see what mfr/model had the first VVT implementation on a production V8 engine. I suspect the M119 was one of the early adopters.
It would be interesting to see what mfr/model had the first VVT implementation on a production V8 engine. I suspect the M119 was one of the early adopters.
I think that Wikipedia article is wrong regarding the model year. I had a 1992 BMW 325i with the M50B25 straight six. I remember it did not have VANOS nor knock sensors. In September of 1992, BMW did release the M50B25TU (TU = technical update) for the 1993 model year which had VANOS and knock sensors.I believe Honda had its VTEC system back then, and wasn't BMW phasing in its VANOS or other VVT system in that time frame? MB by no means had a monopoly on VVT in the early 1990s.
VTEC - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
EDIT: BMW introduced VANOS for the 1992 model year.
I distinctly remember this when I was experimenting with forced induction with that engine....
BMW M50 - Wikipedia
Guess the Avant driver thinks he's Number "1"
That honor goes to the Alfa Spider with a similar setup to Mercedes on the 1987 and newer models.
My wife and I are watching this on TV… Her: “That sounds just like your car!”
The car’s voice is SOOO good!!
maw
Car is mine! Couldn't be happier w the result and also how well it came out. It'll hit 250k mi soon and is generally running quite well. I have the Fleiben cat back exhaust (love love love it, couldn't recommend more) and then I replaced the old cats w Magnaflows this year. Distributor and some other minor issues have been annoying as of late but making great progress on fixing things over time.
Just need to tidy up the melted exhaust near my rear bumper...
Just need to tidy up the melted exhaust near my rear bumper...
I like how they readvance above 250 km/h, I'll have to try that at some point.
I don't think the M119 gets enough credit for how advanced and generally successful it was. It took BMW quite some time to produce a V8 with more hp - really the later M62s in the late 90s, and those didn't even get VANOS until 1998. The M119 also won at Le Mans in the 80s and then dominated in the CLK LM (to such an extent that they stopped the series!) nearly a decade later. It's pretty impressive stuff and I don't think gets acknowledged enough.
250k miles and such a results… woah 
Video is really impressive. Jason Camissa and his team are doing the best job out there on YT, hands down.
We need to collectively send this video to Doug DeMuro but I guess he’s not going to understand it anyway.
Video is really impressive. Jason Camissa and his team are doing the best job out there on YT, hands down. We need to collectively send this video to Doug DeMuro but I guess he’s not going to understand it anyway.
More amazing is that M119 is pushed to almost 1000 hp for the Mercedes Benz C11 Race car. It has a 5 speed manual too.
Wonder if it can be same done to the E500E?
Source: Mercedes-Benz C11 - Wikipedia
I know! They're so much more well produced, presented, and watcheable then listening to a dork talk about quirks and fetaures in a not very funny way for 30 minutes. I watch all his stuff, the Legends series (including the 500E episode) is great. Also very funny.250k miles and such a results… woah
We need to collectively send this video to Doug DeMuro but I guess he’s not going to understand it anyway.
The BTS w DTS series is also fantastic - I learned a ton in the one on the Aston V8 that I didn't know, both about that car and the brand.
The car media landscape is a bit sad these days - mainstream magazines I used to love like Car and Driver are shadows of their former selves and caught competing with instagram/YT influencers and other low cost outlets for clicks and can't get the ad revenue they need. Definitely support the channels like Jason's as much as you can, that's the only way they can stay afloat and produce great content like this.
@dionphaneuf,
That’s a
video! I Loved, Loved, Loved seeing your 500E blow off the competition like that. It’s impressive to see that 354# of torque really showing up as the 500E just walks away (swiftly I might add) from the Beemer and the Audi. 
I have never drag raced my 93 car which was cut down a little on HP/TQ but I remember one day while on lunch break I had 3 of my work associates with me and they asked what make my car so special and I floored it from a rolling 20 mph and shocked them as they were pinned back in the seats.
Thanks for submitting your car for the contest and sharing the video.
That’s a
video! I Loved, Loved, Loved seeing your 500E blow off the competition like that. It’s impressive to see that 354# of torque really showing up as the 500E just walks away (swiftly I might add) from the Beemer and the Audi. I have never drag raced my 93 car which was cut down a little on HP/TQ but I remember one day while on lunch break I had 3 of my work associates with me and they asked what make my car so special and I floored it from a rolling 20 mph and shocked them as they were pinned back in the seats.
Thanks for submitting your car for the contest and sharing the video.
Somehow these no longer look the same...
bringatrailer.com
maw
No Reserve: 1995 Audi RS2 Avant
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maw
