92 500e high temp

[Benz_Fanatic650]

Hello all.
Here comes my first issue.
I am Getting a panicky temp reading on my dash, freeway driving 50°F outside temp.
Fans are roaring, coolant looks good, fan shrouds look good.
Previous owner just fixed the A/C a few weeks ago.
Turning the heater on does the trick for a few seconds then the needle jumps again.



Climbs a little over between 100° and 120°
Any advice?

Thank you

 

[gsxr]

Your photo shows a temp of ~105°C, which is above normal, but not yet a cause for panic.

You said "fans are roaring", but is that the electric fans, or the mechanical fan? If the mechanical fan isn't engaged, fix that FIRST. Also pressure-test the cooling system & cap. Keep in mind the electric fans run on low speed based on refrigerant pressure, and only run on high speed when temp exceeds 107°C (or lower, if a CoolHarness™ is installed).

If still no change, next steps would be to remove the radiator and clean out the condenser fins with compressed air from both directions. How old is the radiator & thermostat? If the radiator is not recent Behr, I'd replace it on principle. They can look perfect externally but not cool properly, and if it's 10-15 years old or more, proactive replacement isn't a bad idea. Ditto for the t-stat if over ~7 years old.

There are some very long threads discussing high temp issues, I highly recommend reading them start to finish. Those will answer many of your questions and help you diagnose the issue.

 

[TerryA]

@Benz_Fanatic650, You may have other problems but your engine fan turns freely when you turn it by hand (motor off) you probably need a new fan clutch. OEM fan clutch is NLA. I installed an ACM fan clutch recently and all of my high temps went away.

Before my engine temp would climb up
in slow traffic. It made me very nervous. With the new ACM clutch it gets to about 85C max.

Check it out.

 

[Benz_Fanatic650]

Thank you all, sent to Porschedes. Oem fan does turn freely when car is off @TerryA, tech mentioned he wants to change that and thermostat. I will update when I hear back

 

[Leon_V]

Your photo shows a temp of ~105°C, which is above normal, but not yet a cause for panic.

You said "fans are roaring", but is that the electric fans, or the mechanical fan? If the mechanical fan isn't engaged, fix that FIRST. Also pressure-test the cooling system & cap. Keep in mind the electric fans run on low speed based on refrigerant pressure, and only run on high speed when temp exceeds 107°C (or lower, if a CoolHarness™ is installed).

If still no change, next steps would be to remove the radiator and clean out the condenser fins with compressed air from both directions. How old is the radiator & thermostat? If the radiator is not recent Behr, I'd replace it on principle. They can look perfect externally but not cool properly, and if it's 10-15 years old or more, proactive replacement isn't a bad idea. Ditto for the t-stat if over ~7 years old.

There are some very long threads discussing high temp issues, I highly recommend reading them start to finish. Those will answer many of your questions and help you diagnose the issue.

Preventative maintenance is key. Albeit a E500/500E or in my case an E420. I replaced the thermostat in the summer of 2021 and had a new OEM (Behr) radiator installed in Nov. 2021 just to be cautious. Those two items are the last things I'd want going out regardless of the season!

 

[gsxr]

Thank you all, sent to Porschedes. Oem fan does turn freely when car is off @TerryA, tech mentioned he wants to change that and thermostat. I will update when I hear back

If the fan clutch is replaced, can you ask for the old one back and snap a photo? If it's original, I might be interested in buying it to fiddle with.

Note that the OEM clutches are NLA, and aftermarket replacements require a shorter bolt. Search the forum for details...

 

[tomer]

gsxr, I am happy to give you my old fan clutch (aka boat anchor... actually too small for boat anchor, too big for paper weight, pretty much useless!). Apologies as I am frustrated with my situation right now...

This has never locked up for me here in Northern California, no matter how hot ambient temps are... I purchased an OEM replacement from the stealership before covid, and it would not lock up... ever... took the car back for part warranty, they tested it still on the car and said they could get the new clutch to lock up by packing the front of the car with tarps or something like that - of course I could not go into their shop to witness this tomfoolery but the tech did call me later that day and told me this nonsense...

Would appreciate your guidance on what money I should throw at the problem, as my temps do exceed 100 degrees on a regular basis. And the fan never roars!

 

[dionphaneuf]

I used one of these at work to verify that mine clutch was good (and eventually find out that the issue lay in my temp sensors). $22 to your door with prime and probably accurate enough for the purposes of this test. I put one sticker on the motor side, another on the fan side.

https://www.amazon.com/AGPtek%C2%AE-Professional-Digital-Tachometer-Contact/dp/B004Q8L894/ref=asc_df_B004Q8L894/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312152566480&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7721152818821727669&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031948&hvtargid=pla-472577771481&psc=1

 

[Benz_Fanatic650]

@gsxr i will contact him in the morning to have him put it one the side for me (you).

Picked up the car today after hours. Temp looks great. However that fan sounds like thunder. When launching from a full stop or when giving it a slight rev in park… really really loud. Any thoughts?

 

[TerryA]

@gsxr i will contact him in the morning to have him put it one the side for me (you).

Picked up the car today after hours. Temp looks great. However that fan sounds like thunder. When launching from a full stop or when giving it a slight rev in park… really really loud. Any thoughts?

@Benz_Fanatic, So what brand was the fan clutch replacement? Just curious.

I don’t think my ACM is that loud. I can hear it outside the car but not while driving. At least not with the windows up.

 

[gsxr]

Most aftermarket clutches are engaged far more often, but the engagement level (temp / RPM / etc) varies between manufacturers. When cold, it may roar a bit at first, but gradually quiet down. Some "bad" aftermarket clutches may be engaged nearly 100% of the time which you obviously don't want, the noise is annoying, and it reduces power & fuel economy a bit as well.

 

[Benz_Fanatic650]

@gsxr yes this is exactly what I meant, that fan is on almost the whole time. When stopped at a light it sounds normal and as soon as i step On the gas it just sounds like a strong industrial fan And it is LOUD! Gonna take it back to Porschedes to check if this is a “bad” clutch @TerryA i will Have to ask what brand it is. I didnt Get the chance to speak much to the shop owner.

 

[tomer]

@Benz_Fanatic650 I look forward to knowing what brand of fan clutch your shop installed and what the owner says about how it is operating. At this point I would prefer more "roar" to silence!!

 

[gsxr]

If the fan never "shuts off"... changing to a different brand may help. It's easy & quick to swap them out, ~15 minutes total with the proper tools. If it isn't ACM, I'd try one of those next.

 

[Benz_Fanatic650]

I want To drive it a bit today and get a feel for that fan and see if it ever turns off. The sound isn’t bad at all, i am Just wondering if it’s “normal” id love to link up with someone from the board to have a sound check from a pro.

 

[Jlaa]

@gsxr yes this is exactly what I meant, that fan is on almost the whole time. When stopped at a light it sounds normal and as soon as i step On the gas it just sounds like a strong industrial fan And it is LOUD! Gonna take it back to Porschedes to check if this is a “bad” clutch @TerryA i will Have to ask what brand it is. I didnt Get the chance to speak much to the shop owner.

Porschedes works on Mercedes cars, but they are not E500E specialists. By this I mean no one on their crew was working in a MB dealership’s service dept when these were new.

When having them do work on E500Es, I highly suggest you do copious research, site suck all of w124performance.com and memorize it , source all the parts yourself, and quadruple check with them such they can gain a measure of confidence that you know what you are doing with parts sourcing more than they do for this specific model.

If a shop is to get comfortable with a customer sourcing parts, the shop needs to feel like the customer is going to save them time and headaches.

 

[Jlaa]

@Benz_Fanatic, So what brand was the fan clutch replacement? Just curious.

I don’t think my ACM is that loud. I can hear it outside the car but not while driving. At least not with the windows up.

When cold, [aftermarket clutches] may roar a bit at first, but gradually quiet down. Some "bad" aftermarket clutches may be engaged nearly 100% of the time which you obviously don't want, the noise is annoying, and it reduces power & fuel economy a bit as well.

My ACM is like TerryA's fan clutch. I can hear it outside the car but not while driving w/ the windows up.

Also, it roars and first but then quiets down.

 

[JC220]

My ACM is like TerryA's fan clutch. I can hear it outside the car but not while driving w/ the windows up. Also, it roars and first but then quiets down.

View attachment 146183

View attachment 146184

View attachment 146185

Same as my ACM clutch behaviour. It works great I don't mind the occasional roar if it is working!

 

[TerryA]

Same as my ACM clutch behaviour. It works great I don't mind the occasional roar if it is working!

I don’t know how long the ACM clutches will last compared to OEM but for about $100.00 each you could buy 6 or 7 compared to one OEM that is NLA anyway. I’m a happy camper.

 

[Benz_Fanatic650]

You guessed it correct my friends. Porschedes installed a behr fan clutch. Fan is 100% on. Owner advised me to find the ACM fan clutch and he’s willing to swap

I believe i will Be making the switch to silver star motors after we settle this repair.

As for the original fan clutch it seems to be long gone sorry @gsxr

 

[Jlaa]

You guessed it correct my friends. Porschedes installed a behr fan clutch. Fan is 100% on. Owner advised me to find the ACM fan clutch and he’s willing to swap

I believe i will Be making the switch to silver star motors after we settle this repair.

As for the original fan clutch it seems to be long gone sorry @gsxr

Just curious - so are you going to switch bc porschedes was unhappy about swapping out the defective BEHR or are you switching because they put in a BEHR or something else? Just curious…

 

[Benz_Fanatic650]

i was given the covid part shortage and advised to find it myself. I expect More. I found The part and ordered it in minutes. I dunno maybe he’s busy

Any help with the shorter bolt? I want To be able to tell him which bolt to use for the ACM

 

[Jlaa]

i was given the covid part shortage and advised to find it myself. I expect More. I found The part and ordered it in minutes. I dunno maybe he’s busy

Any help with the shorter bolt? I want To be able to tell him which bolt to use for the ACM

Got it. You should be able to do a search here and find the shorter bolt that goes with the ACM. Unless you pay me, then I will deliver more for your expectations. JK.

 

[Benz_Fanatic650]

Got it. You should be able to do a search here and find the shorter bolt that goes with the ACM. Unless you pay me, then I will deliver more for your expectations. JK.

Mbz 000912-010222 thanks

MERCEDES BENZ GENUINE NEW CAP BOLT 000912010222 | eBay

CAP BOLT 000912010222. Genuine Quality. Cooling Parts. Electric System. Brake Parts. Body Parts. Engine parts.

www.ebay.com

 

[Jlaa]

Mbz 000912-010222 thanks

You found it, excellent!

To be fair, I don't think I would expect any MB shop to know what bolt to go with an aftermarket ACM fan clutch were unless they were specialists in the E500E car and saw dozens of those cars a month. Maaaaaaaayybbbbbeeeee I might expect that one famous shop near Atlanta to know, but even then, these independents are not really in the biz of putting "ACM" anything on our cars....

That is unless Porschedes had done several E500Es and bought the ACMs andi installed them themselves, but I kind of doubt they have..... they are probably much more used to putting on whatever MB-branded part that EPC says is correct....

Hope it works out for you! I'd love to know the difference between your aftermarket BEHR and the aftermarket ACM.

PS - the parts shortage is real. I had a faulty HFM on my Sport Beetle and I JUST COULD NOT FIND a Bosch one ANYWHERE. Bosch is the OEM of the Porsche part. I cringed and ended up putting on a Febi. So far it works .... but I am just waiting for that decision to bite me....

 

[gsxr]

All the aftermarket clutches use the same shorter bolt, any generic cap screw of the proper length/thread will work. I'm not positive if 000912-010222 is still available; it could supercede to a star/Torx head bolt, which may not be easily accessible with the radiator in place. The Behr clutch is SuperChina, and if anything like the Behr W210 clutch I had years ago, was engaged constantly even in winter.

 

[TerryA]

All the aftermarket clutches use the same shorter bolt, any generic cap screw of the proper length/thread will work. I'm not positive if 000912-010222 is still available; it could supercede to a star/Torx head bolt, which may not be easily accessible with the radiator in place. The Behr clutch is SuperChina, and if anything like the Behr W210 clutch I had years ago, was engaged constantly even in winter.

View attachment 146239

The bolt was available in September 2021 from the Classic Center. I’m sure that bolt has gotta be used in other applications.

 

[gsxr]

Thanks, Terry! I need to order a few spares to keep on the shelf.

FWIW, MB has changed some other bolts - like the "standard" bolt for original M119 fan clutch - to a different number with a Torx head. This renders all the factory fan clutch tools useless because they have 8mm hex drive, not Torx... the dealer will tell you "hey, the bolt is the same dimensions" which is true, but doesn't help you or your mechanic.

 

[Benz_Fanatic650]

Loud roaring sound has substantially decreased since i have Been getting the chance to drive it, car sounds/runs great. Most importantly car runs at the perfect temp.

Still on the search for a ACM set just in case.

(apology owed to porschedes) they did a great job.

 

[Jlaa]

Loud roaring sound has substantially decreased since i have Been getting the chance to drive it, car sounds/runs great. Most importantly car runs at the perfect temp.

Still on the search for a ACM set just in case.

(apology owed to porschedes) they did a great job.

Ah, what was the outcome at Porschedes?

 

[Benz_Fanatic650]

Ah, what was the outcome at Porschedes?

didnt visit them since they replaced the fan clutch, drove it about 90 miles since. not sure what did it but the fan is no longer running 100% of the time.

 

[gsxr]

Keep an eye on the face of the clutch, if it starts to look oily/grimy, that indicates the internal fluid is leaking out. Not likely to happen this quickly though.