ACM fan clutch NLA ?

[RobertK]

Related to the cooling problems I have at this moment, I am looking on the Web for the M119 ASM ACM fan clutch which has been discussed and recommended several times. I cannot find any supplier which can deliver this clutch at this moment.

Does anybody knows what (European) supplier can deliver such a clutch ?

 

[JC220]

Related to the cooling problems I have at this moment, I am looking on the Web for the M119 ASM fan clutch which has been discussed and recommended several times. I cannot find any supplier which can deliver this clutch at this moment.

Does anybody knows what (European) supplier can deliver such a clutch ?

For what car Robert? W124, r129 etc?

Have you tried Autodoc? Use their app and you should find the fan clutches.

ACM is what you are referring to I think?

I have found NRF to be a good quality m119 fan clutch from autodoc

 

[RobertK]

Sorry, for my '92 (Japan import) W124 500E.
ACM indeed (not ASM)

I will take a look at Autodoc, thank you !
The NRF 49641 is also a good alternative is your experience ?

 

[TerryA]

@RobertK, I just checked AutohausAZ & FCP Euro here in US. Both said “unavailable” That’s disappointing. I bought my ACM from AutohauzAZ.

Currently, They are selling a Febi-Bilstein clutch. No idea about the quality.

It’s getting harder by the day to get good quality parts for our E500Es

 

[Duh_Vinci]

ECS is out of them too... Shame! I've had mine ACM for a while now, no complaints.

 

[RobertK]

After searching and searching I noticed the same what you said. That ACM fan clutch is nowhere available, unfortunately.
What JC220 said, the NRF fan clutch is possibly a good alternative.

 

[TerryA]

I’m good for now to on the ACM clutch. Maybe it’s a temporary supply chain issue. FCP Euro did have other ACM parts.

 

[tomer]

I experienced the same thing, and ordered an "ACM" clutch from an ebay seller. brand new.. I was thoroughly confused and maybe angry when what arrived was a febi-bilstein box with a clutch that is labelled "Borg Warner Shenglong". But it also has the Febi logo, so I think I was ripped off.

Is the ACM clutch labelled Borg Warner?

 

[Jlaa]

I experienced the same thing, and ordered an "ACM" clutch from an ebay seller. brand new.. I was thoroughly confused and maybe angry when what arrived was a febi-bilstein box with a clutch that is labelled "Borg Warner Shenglong". But it also has the Febi logo, so I think I was ripped off.

Is the ACM clutch labelled Borg Warner?

View attachment 146800

No, the ACM clutch used to be boxed in a Borg Warner Box, but it didn't have a "Febi" stamp on it.
That said, "Febi" and "BorgWarnerShenglong" stamps aside, your photo looks pretty close to my ACM clutch photos from 2017. What does the other side look like @tomer?

 

[tomer]

If I did not know any different, I would say the plot thickens!! My Febi sure looks exactly like your ACM!!! The markings on the bearing are almost identical!

 

[gsxr]

All these no-name suppliers are reboxing the same junk coming out of Shenglong (assuming that's a real place, although it wouldn't matter if it isn't).

Febi, Borg Assimilation, Vemo, whatever - they're all a crapshoot. The bad ones never disengage at all and will roar to 6000rpm in freezing ambient temps. And/or, they will never disengage under any circumstances. ACM was the least of the weevils, and would "only" rev 1000rpm higher than OE and disengage at ~4500rpm; and would usually disengage at cool ambients / cool engine temps.

Almost all the aftermarket clutches will look nearly identical visually. I've not found a way to identify a specific manufacture / specific building in Shenglong they all come out of. Use any of these and you gotta ask yourself...

 

[JC220]

This NRF item was for my W140 M119 car so may not be same part on w124 chassis which IIRC is thinner.



It was at least marked as being made by NRF and came with a bench test sheet for the exact clutch. It worked perfect I had no issues. If NRF supply one I would go for that. Use the Autodoc app for best price. This code will also get you £3 off AC25501200 (as me recommending a new customer I also get £5 FYI)

It takes about 1 - 2 weeks at present for the autdoc orders to reach UK. But I can't find better selection or prices anywhere hence I am willing to plan ahead and wait.

Do be sure to double check the part numbers on the listing. You can also search by part number directly In the app. Just don't rely on their suggestions as like any online store they may not be correct hence best use the part number search when you know the number.

 

[gsxr]

This NRF item was for my W140 M119 car so may not be same part on w124 chassis which IIRC is thinner.

The OE Sachs/Horton are different between 140/129 and 124, but the "thin" aftermarket clutches for the 140 may work on a 124 - need to check on that.

There may only be ~8mm difference in fan blade location per the photos on K6JRF's page. (Warning - ignore almost all of the content & testing data/conclusions, on that page, it's inaccurate and misleading).

https://www.k6jrf.com/MB_Sachs.html

 

[tomer]

@gsxr, good point, but given my current clutch will never engage I think it makes sense for me to give this "thing" a shot... Now where to find an M10 x 50mm left hand thread bolt.... Does it need to be grade 8, or a junkie grade 5 will do?

 

[gsxr]

OH, the bolt is standard thread! No Leftorium stuff required.

 

[tomer]

Thanks Dave!!!!

 

[TerryA]

@gsxr, good point, but given my current clutch will never engage I think it makes sense for me to give this "thing" a shot... Now where to find an M10 x 50mm left hand thread bolt.... Does it need to be grade 8, or a junkie grade 5 will do?

@tomer, I bought the bolt from the MB Classic Center, in Irvine, CA. It was cheap (Under $5.00) but someone else will have to give you the part number. If not I may be able to find the receipt tomorrow.

 

[RobertK]

I will give it a try with an NRF
@JC220 this one should I choose I suggest ?

https://www.autoonderdelen-direct.nl/auto-onderdelen/nrf/p-9808152

Do I need also other bolts for this one ?

 

[nic520]

I have used the Febi-boxed BorgWarner. It still works and disengages at 3.500 - 4.000 rpm. It roars on and after cold start though.

 

[195910]

Is the Sachs Visco-clutch NLA ?

 

[JC220]

I will give it a try with an NRF
@JC220 this one should I choose I suggest ?

https://www.autoonderdelen-direct.nl/auto-onderdelen/nrf/p-9808152

Do I need also other bolts for this one ?

See link below- the NRF clutch comes with the short bolt. The number I ordered is also visible there. I believe @gsxr is correct on this one being thin and probably works on w124 chassis also.

Post in thread 'M119 Running Too Hot' M119 Running Too Hot | M119 Engine

 

[tomer]

What does the collective wisdom think of this tool to hold the fan clutch pulley?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0075CQRZ8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

I am going to order and give it a try, I could not loosen the bolt on my OE clutch by pushing on the belt :-(

 

[nic520]

I am a big fan of this:
Riemenscheibenschlüssel Gegenhalter Keilriemenscheiben 800 mm Flachriemen Satra

Worked on my clutch together with the correct allen key and a good extention on it.

 

[tomer]

I guess for this type of tool you would first need to remove the serpentine belt right?

 

[nic520]

Yes. Or at least move it over to the engine.

 

[Jlaa]

What's the hot setup on aftermarket fan clutches these days?
My car seems to creep to 100C on the temp gauge crawling up hills at 10mph more frequently than before...
I SEEM to detect that the ACM fan clutch I installed in 2016 shows somewhat less ROAR noise than before. I'm not really sure. Seems like it. But I'm not averse to throwing another $100 part at the maybe-kinda-not-really-sure-problem .... especially since replacing the thin aftermarket fan clutches with another thin fan clutch is much easier than getting in the OE thick fan clutch.

Are the fan clutches all the same these days? GMB / Four seasons / Febi / etc?

thanks.

 

[gsxr]

Jlaa, I think there is more than 1 manufacturer of the cheap stuff now... but I don't know which ones are preferred (don't want to use the term 'good', lol).

Next time the temp is near 100C, park the car, roll down the driver window, and pop the hood. Slowly rev the engine and listen for the fan. It should be engaged and roaring. See at what RPM it disengages / decouples. If it's roaring away to 3000+rpm, the clutch is probably engaged and doing its job.

Just today I did the above test on my 500E race car... 85F ambient, AC running, 100C+ engine temp. The fan was engaged to ~2000rpm but would disengage above that. This shows that particular clutch is likely mis-calibrated. I purposely want a clutch that engages late / not enough, for race purposes, as I don't want the fan unexpectedly engaging at sub-100C temps. I did find the twin electric fan worked on high speed, but NOT low speed! Fuse good, red switch good, relay clicks when red switch jumped, wiring good at the resistor... now I get to trace schematics. Yay?

 

[Jlaa]

Jlaa, I think there is more than 1 manufacturer of the cheap stuff now... but I don't know which ones are preferred (don't want to use the term 'good', lol).

Next time the temp is near 100C, park the car, roll down the driver window, and pop the hood. Slowly rev the engine and listen for the fan. It should be engaged and roaring. See at what RPM it disengages / decouples. If it's roaring away to 3000+rpm, the clutch is probably engaged and doing its job.

Yessir! . Ugh on the twin electric fan issue. Would be super interested to hear what you find on that one! .

 

[gerryvz]

I have seen the electric fans “freeze” and become unfrozen when manually “prodded” — perhaps try that. A result of sparing use.

 

[Jlaa]

I got the Febi fan clutch. It is made by Borg Warner... just as the ACM fan clutch I bought in 2016 was made by Borg Warner, as shown in post #9. The Febi-BW looks very similar to the ACM-BW. Indeed, this 2025 fan clutch is made by Borg Warner Shenglong, which I understand is a wholly owned subsidiary of BW in Ningbo, China - Made in China—at a BorgWarner Plant. I bet its the same thing as the ACM.

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[gsxr]

I have seen the electric fans “freeze” and become unfrozen when manually “prodded” — perhaps try that. A result of sparing use.

I've seen the same thing - however the fans run normally on high speed. I'll give them a spin when the low-speed relay is engaged though, for grins. Just got back from the race weekend so now I need to start diagnosing this!

 

[gsxr]

I did find the twin electric fan worked on high speed, but NOT low speed! Fuse good, red switch good, relay clicks when red switch jumped, wiring good at the resistor... now I get to trace schematics.

Update on the above issue:

I found the 2.5mm² Bk/Vi wire between the relay and the auxiliary fan resistor is open (broken) somewhere inside the harness! The connections were solid on both ends. Very, very bizarre. I will need to route a separate, external wire to fix this. It's unpossible to extract and open the harness to find where the breakage is.

 

[Markus-MD]

Look to the Resistor under the left Headlamp.Corrosion or kommplet default on the Resistor .And take it fast .I have see some burned there.
the lower rpm from the fan goes over this Part

 

[gsxr]

Look to the Resistor under the left Headlamp.Corrosion or kommplet default on the Resistor .And take it fast .I have see some burned there.
the lower rpm from the fan goes over this Part

The resistor itself checks out ok. I had already repaired the upper connection years ago (the one with 2 wires at the same terminal), this fixed a "no fan" issue. As described above, this time it's an open wire/conductor between the relay socket and the resistor.

 

[gsxr]

Update #2:

I replaced the broken 2.5mm² Bk/Vi wire with a new, external 12-gauge wire. I had some stranded copper THHN, 90°C rated, Southwire Made in USA normally used for commercial wiring (not automotive applications). I briefly looked for automotive wire with silicone or other higher-temp ratings, but all I could find was either high priced name brand stuff (>$1/ft, usually min 100' reels) or no-name junk on Amazon that I don't trust the quality of the wire (may not be copper), nor the size (likely undersized), nor the claimed insulation rating.

With the new wire installed, the electric fans are back to normal operation. I measured ~12A draw via Fluke clamp ammeter with the engine off.

Interestingly, I also learned that the typical area where the wiring harness overheats and fails at the resistor, is where the high speed fan wire joins the wire which goes to the fans. It seems the resistor itself may not be the problem. Or possibly, it's that the terminal location is an issue, with the 2-wire connection at the top of the resistor (more heat) vs the bottom. Makes me wonder if the connections were reversed, if there would be the same 'overheating' issue. I had repaired that broken wire years ago and the old repair was still intact. The recent failure was completely separate, buried somewhere inside the harness.

 

[Jlaa]

Update #2:

I replaced the broken 2.5mm² Bk/Vi wire with a new, external 12-gauge wire. I had some stranded copper THHN, 90°C rated, Southwire Made in USA normally used for commercial wiring (not automotive applications). I briefly looked for automotive wire with silicone or other higher-temp ratings, but all I could find was either high priced name brand stuff (>$1/ft, usually min 100' reels) or no-name junk on Amazon that I don't trust the quality of the wire (may not be copper), nor the size (likely undersized), nor the claimed insulation rating.

With the new wire installed, the electric fans are back to normal operation. I measured ~12A draw via Fluke clamp ammeter with the engine off.

Interestingly, I also learned that the typical area where the wiring harness overheats and fails at the resistor, is where the high speed fan wire joins the wire which goes to the fans. It seems the resistor itself may not be the problem. Or possibly, it's that the terminal location is an issue, with the 2-wire connection at the top of the resistor (more heat) vs the bottom. Makes me wonder if the connections were reversed, if there would be the same 'overheating' issue. I had repaired that broken wire years ago and the old repair was still intact. The recent failure was completely separate, buried somewhere inside the harness.

Perhaps it is worthwhile to reconsider relocating the resistor to the area just forward of the electric cooling fans, like they do in the W140 chassis? Then, we could leave the wire join of the high-speed line to the fan line in place behind the headlight?

 

[gsxr]

Perhaps it is worthwhile to reconsider relocating the resistor to the area just forward of the electric cooling fans, like they do in the W140 chassis? Then, we could leave the wire join of the high-speed line to the fan line in place behind the headlight?

Yes - I do believe relocating the resistor behind the grille, where it's cooled by fresh air, would help. This would be an interesting experiment to see if the 2-wire joint no longer displays signs of heat stress with the resistor Far Away.

Note in my photo, the top terminal has the yellow plastic partially discolored from heat. That happened in less than 5kmi. Side note, the resistor is almost new, also about 5kmi since installed.

With the PWM factory fan upgrade, the twin auxiliary fans should never run on high speed - only low speed.