400E Best tire suspension set-up for 400E/E420

[future400]

I am interested in acquiring a 400E/E420 and have a couple of questions. I am a bit spoiled by the high speed handling of new cars and currently track a road course (mildly prepped) 2007 Mustang GT. So I believe I need more handling than stock 195 series tires provide. Living in Idaho with our 80 mph highway speed limit and mountain roads makes good handling important.

I am NOT interested in using a 400E on the track but want good street handling.

Should I:

1. Seek or avoid the ASR?
2. Try to upgrade the car to Sportline option specs - does this provide a noticeable benefit?
3. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

 

[gerryvz]

You should speak with our member @gsxr, who lives at the very far end of the Boise Metropolitan Area. He (and particularly his wife) are legendary Mercedes racers at the Firebird Raceway there. He has unrivaled expertise in 400E models and perhaps even has a few examples for sale at an undisclosed location between Star and Amsco, ID.

My recommendations:

1. ASR is a good thing, and preferable over non-ASR cars (particularly in Idaho winters)
2. No major benefit to Sportline spec -- it's not a major difference that you will feel that much. But if you have the $$$.....why not.
3. Be sure to get a car that has had the upper and lower wiring harnesses done. IMHO a 1994 or 1995 E420 is preferable to a 1992-1993 400E for a bunch of reasons.

Seriously, contact the @gsxr. His shop is amazing and I believe you would walk away from a visit with him quite enlightened !!

 

[gsxr]

EDIT: First things first... what Mercedes have you owned, and if you've owned any 124 chassis, what year/model of 124? You only mention the 2007 Mustang, wasn't sure what MB seat time you have.

I agree with Gerry. You can add an ASR defeat switch if desired for hooning, but you can't add ASR to a non-ASR car. The ASR is fabulous on slippery roads. Yes, it can sometimes require effort to troubleshoot the system when a component acts up, but IMO it's worth it. I won't buy a 400E/E420 without ASR. This will limit your purchase options, as ASR is not common on the .034. You can confirm if a car has ASR by looking for the ASR unit under the hood (or snow chain switch in the console), or better yet, get the VIN and look up the datacard at LastVIN.com and check for option code 471.

The stock suspension will likely feel a bit floaty compared to your late-model ponycar, but drive it as-is for a while before deciding what (if any) suspension upgrades you want to pursue. The Sportline springs aren't cheap, and you might need to get sway bars from Blue Ridge MB as the rear bar is NLA. Wider wheels & tires will help but the fenders limit your options here, still, most anything is better than the silly 195/65 stockers. Bilstiein Sport dampers all around will also help, but will be firmer of course.

The other purchase advice I'd offer is to consider 94-95 E420 models if possible, main reason is they have decent headlights from the factory, and it's simple to upgrade the stereo head unit if desired. But if you find a super nice 92-93, it's not a dealbreaker. You'll likely need to search the entire west coast (CA,OR,WA) to find one. There are not many for sale around Idaho. If needed, the upper wire harnesses are available new, the lower is available from Blue Ridge. While it's nice to get a car that has one or both replaced, it also isn't a dealbreaker (ditto for the ETA).

Required reading for handling junkies:

A W124 suspension tuning adventure | Brakes, Suspension and Steering

We have a 400E with 500E engine (55k mi.), all new suspension, 2.82 diff. w/LSD. Lots of details not relevant to this thread. We have nearly completed a rather lengthy suspension tuning that I thought might be interesting to this forum. The list of new parts so you understand the complete...

www.500eboard.co

 

[northNH]

My experience with non-036 124s...

My coupe came to me needing shocks with a couple broken springs...
I used Bilstein HD shocks (not Comfort or Sport), correct Sportline springs with 8mm pads, 28.5mm cabrio/18mm 500E ASBs, 7x16 CLK wheels with 215/55 Michelins, and as importantly, a sedan Sportline steering box á la GSXR.

My 420 came to me with perfectly functioning stock suspension setup, but that didn’t stop me...
Now with correct Sportline springs, 500E front/Sportline rear shocks with 8mm pads, 500E ASBs F&R, 7.5x16 8-hole wheels with 215/55 Michelins.

Based on my reluctance to compromise the stock creamy ride on either car, I avoided H&R springs and Bilstein Sports.
A cheaper satisfactory upgrade alternative for the 420 might be Bilstein HDs, stock 400 springs cut down to lower ~1”, the 500 ASBs, and 7x16/215s...

Both notably improved over stock without compromising ride quality; my TE remains stock and now seems floaty as hell.
For me the Sportline springs have been worth the money, as is the ASR even if I had had to pay for it.

 

[future400]

You should speak with our member @gsxr, who lives at the very far end of the Boise Metropolitan Area. He (and particularly his wife) are legendary Mercedes racers at the Firebird Raceway there. He has unrivaled expertise in 400E models and perhaps even has a few examples for sale at an undisclosed location between Star and Amsco, ID.

My recommendations:

1. ASR is a good thing, and preferable over non-ASR cars (particularly in Idaho winters)
2. No major benefit to Sportline spec -- it's not a major difference that you will feel that much. But if you have the $$$.....why not.
3. Be sure to get a car that has had the upper and lower wiring harnesses done. IMHO a 1994 or 1995 E420 is preferable to a 1992-1993 400E for a bunch of reasons.

Seriously, contact the @gsxr. His shop is amazing and I believe you would walk away from a visit with him quite enlightened !!

EDIT: First things first... what Mercedes have you owned, and if you've owned any 124 chassis, what year/model of 124? You only mention the 2007 Mustang, wasn't sure what MB seat time you have.

I agree with Gerry. You can add an ASR defeat switch if desired for hooning, but you can't add ASR to a non-ASR car. The ASR is fabulous on slippery roads. Yes, it can sometimes require effort to troubleshoot the system when a component acts up, but IMO it's worth it. I won't buy a 400E/E420 without ASR. This will limit your purchase options, as ASR is not common on the .034. You can confirm if a car has ASR by looking for the ASR unit under the hood (or snow chain switch in the console), or better yet, get the VIN and look up the datacard at LastVIN.com and check for option code 471.

The stock suspension will likely feel a bit floaty compared to your late-model ponycar, but drive it as-is for a while before deciding what (if any) suspension upgrades you want to pursue. The Sportline springs aren't cheap, and you might need to get sway bars from Blue Ridge MB as the rear bar is NLA. Wider wheels & tires will help but the fenders limit your options here, still, most anything is better than the silly 195/65 stockers. Bilstiein Sport dampers all around will also help, but will be firmer of course.

The other purchase advice I'd offer is to consider 94-95 E420 models if possible, main reason is they have decent headlights from the factory, and it's simple to upgrade the stereo head unit if desired. But if you find a super nice 92-93, it's not a dealbreaker. You'll likely need to search the entire west coast (CA,OR,WA) to find one. There are not many for sale around Idaho. If needed, the upper wire harnesses are available new, the lower is available from Blue Ridge. While it's nice to get a car that has one or both replaced, it also isn't a dealbreaker (ditto for the ETA).

Required reading for handling junkies:

A W124 suspension tuning adventure | Brakes, Suspension and Steering

We have a 400E with 500E engine (55k mi.), all new suspension, 2.82 diff. w/LSD. Lots of details not relevant to this thread. We have nearly completed a rather lengthy suspension tuning that I thought might be interesting to this forum. The list of new parts so you understand the complete...

www.500eboard.co

Thanks for the welcome and advice regarding my fellow Idahoan.

 

[future400]

Thanks for the welcome and advice regarding my fellow Idahoan.

 

[future400]

I am getting the hang of this. So, I have owned (when stationed in Germany) a BMW 3.0S, and a German spec 6-cylinder 320I. Back in the US, a 1983 911 SC, a late 1990's VW Passat, and my wife currently has a 2015 VW GTI with a 6-speed manual. I have never owned an MB. My late uncle had a 1972 450 SEL that he let me drive decades ago and that feeling never left me - just such a solid car. So now it is time for an MB. Originally I was thinking about a 450 SLC 5.0, but want a more modern car.

 

[gsxr]

Ah, that helps a lot. I would STRONGLY recommend test-driving several different Mercedes models, over a few different chassis. Once you settle on the chassis and/or model you like, find a few different ones to drive, as some may be poorly maintained (while looking great) and you won't know how it's supposed to drive, if you only drive one that's not running properly.

Assuming you are looking for a mid-size 4-door sedan, that means a 124, 210, or 211 chassis. All will be roughly in the same price ballpark. Shell out for the best example you can find, it will generally save you $$ in the long run. Each of the 3 chassis have a different feel. The 210 in particular feels larger inside compared to the 124 or 211, which you may or may not like. Driving some E320's will help you get a feel for the chassis & transmission. You might find the 124 doesn't float your boat. The W210 E430/E55 or W211 E500 might be good alternatives.

 

[future400]

Dave, great advice. I would like to stick with an M119 engine if possible and I worry about post-merger cars and quality. Am I wrong? Chassis feel is huge of course. However, I am not afraid of an older car and totally agree on buying an excellent example.

 

[gsxr]

The M119 is fantastic, but I'm clearly biased. And, it will require owning an SDS C3/C4 for diagnostics... you'd really need that for the W210/W211 as well. However, the M113 which replaced the M119 was also nearly bulletproof, just a bit more 'boring' except in Kompressor form.

Quality did slip a bit in the mid-90's, IMO, mostly on the early 210's. Nothing drastic, but IME the 210 interiors don't hold up as well to abuse like the 124 did. But if cared for, the 210 interior can still look great with high miles. The 210 had issues with rust but that's not a concern on the west coast - but if the car spent any time in the rust belt, watch out. I've only owned one 211 (my sis owns one too) but those do seem to be pretty decent, probably better than the 210, but not quite as tough as the 124 interiors.

Assuming you are looking for good handling and power, I'd check into the E55 AMG (W210 or W211). The E430 is nice, and although there's a Sport edition, it's just an appearance package... but you can install the E55 suspension. Also, a W211 E550 Sport would be another contender (preferably 2009). These are all moving into higher price ranges, but by the time you buy a nice 400E420 and upgrade the suspension, the cost might be a wash either way. Oh yeah - dunno if this floats your boat, but the 2005-2006 E320 CDI can be tweaked to make serious power, if you don't mind an oil burner. If you start shopping for 210/211, you'll need to be more picky about options, there were more to choose from. For the W124 your pretty much just want ASR and heated seats.

 

[future400]

Dave M. I would like to meet you to discuss W124's, etc. My cell number is 208-863-7981. Thanks, Fred

 

[gerryvz]

Dave M. I would like to meet you to discuss W124's, etc. My cell number is 208-863-7981. Thanks, Fred

If you do meet him, you will be only the third or fourth person on the forum to ever meet him in person. There have been rumors that he is not a real human, but rather some sort of cyborg.

 

[Quick4door]

I run Eibach springs, 2 dot spring pads, bilstein sport shocks, stock 400e sway bars with new bushings, 500e alignment, adjustable rear camber arms to bring rear camber in spec, and AMG wheels 17x7.5 f 17x8.5 r with 225/45/17 front and 245/40/17 continental conti pro tires. Daily driven in all conditions and a great street setup. Stiff and responsive.

 

[future400]

Thanks,