Broken timing chain rails

[aliking]

hello all
today was a bad day, when i was in my way to work the car stopped suddenly, i tried to run the engine again but no luck.
i called a friend and he helped me and towed the car to my home.
now the real work started, i took off the valve covers both sides and found the driver side upper rail broken, the passenger side is ok.
now i need some advices and answers from you guys, any help would be very appreciated.

1- should i replace both sides rails even if they are not broken?
2- what should i use in replacement, can i use rails from another engine (used in good condition) because i live in Jordan and we dont have new oe parts, i asked the dealer and said the parts i need are NLA.
3- should i replace the valve stem seals bcoz i have a set of NOS seals.
4- i have new Erling valve cover gasket set, is it ok to use it to replace the original one in my car.
5- should i replace the timing chain tensioner bcoz i have a new Febi tensioner and i think its the reason to break the rails bcoz its not tightening the rail good.
6- do i need to set the timing again?
7- is there anything else to check bcoz i dont want to repeat this work again.

Pictures here to describe the case

i also would like to thank gerry and gsxr for their great DIY threads here that helped me to take off the valve covers in a professional way.

 

[gerryvz]

hello all
today was a bad day, when i was in my way to work the car stopped suddenly, i tried to run the engine again but no luck.
i called a friend and he helped me and towed the car to my home.
now the real work started, i took off the valve covers both sides and found the driver side upper rail broken, the passenger side is ok.
now i need some advices and answers from you guys, any help would be very appreciated.

1- should i replace both sides rails even if they are not broken?
2- what should i use in replacement, can i use rails from another engine (used in good condition) because i live in Jordan and we dont have new oe parts, i asked the dealer and said the parts i need are NLA.
3- should i replace the valve stem seals bcoz i have a set of NOS seals.
4- i have new Erling valve cover gasket set, is it ok to use it to replace the original one in my car.
5- should i replace the timing chain tensioner bcoz i have a new Febi tensioner and i think its the reason to break the rails bcoz its not tightening the rail good.
6- do i need to set the timing again?
7- is there anything else to check bcoz i dont want to repeat this work again.

Pictures here to describe the case

i also would like to thank gerry and gsxr for their great DIY threads here that helped me to take off the valve covers in a professional way.

What is the mileage on your car?

Are you talking about the chain guides that sit on top of the chain between the cams on each side, or the actual timing chain slide rails that the chain rests on, in the ends of the cylinder heads?

1. REPLACE ALL OF THE UPPER RAILS AND THE TENSIONER RAIL WITH NEW OE MB PARTS ONLY. DO NOT use "used" parts. Only NEW and FACTORY parts for these.

2. All of the rails are available new from MB. You can get the part numbers from this site, and order them from ANY MB dealer. They are not hugely expensive. I just bought new ones for my parts stash last year. They are DEFINITELY available.

3. I recommend that you also buy a new timing chain tensioner at the same time, and replace it. You should also seriously consider replacing the timing chain, but this is not 100% required. Febi tensioner is junk. ONLY use a factory MB tensioner.

4. You should not really have to replace the valve stem seals, as they are not known for wear on the M119. If you do replace them, the cylinder heads will need to be removed from the car. This necessitates a couple of thousand dollars of expense for labor and parts.

5. A new Elring valve cover seal set is EXCELLENT and will work just fine. Elring is an OEM for MB for many types of gaskets on many cars, and their quality is good. They are fine to use as replacements for the MB parts.

6. YES, you will need to re-set the timing after replacing the rails and such. This is good basic protocol anyway.

7. You will want to replace all of the rubber air intake hoses on the top of the engine underneath the airbox, if they are hard and brittle. There is plenty of info on this forum about how to do this, part numbers, and so forth. This includes the donut rings for the two halves of the intake manifold, the ETA gasket, all vacuum lines, fuel injector seals, and so forth.

You may as well do all of this work in one shot, so you never have to do it again.

 

[gerryvz]

The factory parts diagram shows the timing chain rails as follows:

Tensioner rail (complete) -- 1190500416 -- US part cost ~$90
Driver's side outside rail -- 1190521316 -- US part cost ~$45
Driver & passenger side inside rail (you need to order TWO) -- 1190521116 -- US part cost $10 each

Timing chain tensioner and gasket -- 1190501711 -- US part cost $280

Driver & passenger side upper timing chain guide (between cams) - (you need to order TWO) -- 1190520916 -- US part cost $11 each
Passenger side chain guide (between cams) -- 1190500316 -- US part cost $16
Driver's side chain guide (between cams) -- 1190500216 -- US part cost $15

 

[RicardoD]

I am sorry to hear of your car troubles. Please follow Gerry's advice. I had to go through this on my car at about 170k miles but I found the problem before I had any engine trouble. Good luck with your repair.

 

[aliking]

What is the mileage on your car?

Are you talking about the chain guides that sit on top of the chain between the cams on each side, or the actual timing chain slide rails that the chain rests on, in the ends of the cylinder heads?

1. REPLACE ALL OF THE UPPER RAILS AND THE TENSIONER RAIL WITH NEW OE MB PARTS ONLY. DO NOT use "used" parts. Only NEW and FACTORY parts for these.

2. All of the rails are available new from MB. You can get the part numbers from this site, and order them from ANY MB dealer. They are not hugely expensive. I just bought new ones for my parts stash last year. They are DEFINITELY available.

3. I recommend that you also buy a new timing chain tensioner at the same time, and replace it. You should also seriously consider replacing the timing chain, but this is not 100% required. Febi tensioner is junk. ONLY use a factory MB tensioner.

4. You should not really have to replace the valve stem seals, as they are not known for wear on the M119. If you do replace them, the cylinder heads will need to be removed from the car. This necessitates a couple of thousand dollars of expense for labor and parts.

5. A new Elring valve cover seal set is EXCELLENT and will work just fine. Elring is an OEM for MB for many types of gaskets on many cars, and their quality is good. They are fine to use as replacements for the MB parts.

6. YES, you will need to re-set the timing after replacing the rails and such. This is good basic protocol anyway.

7. You will want to replace all of the rubber air intake hoses on the top of the engine underneath the airbox, if they are hard and brittle. There is plenty of info on this forum about how to do this, part numbers, and so forth. This includes the donut rings for the two halves of the intake manifold, the ETA gasket, all vacuum lines, fuel injector seals, and so forth.

You may as well do all of this work in one shot, so you never have to do it again.

thank you mr gerry for explaining everything.
about the mileage i really cant tell what is it, bcoz when i bought the car a year ago the odometer was not working and stopped at 97000 km, i replaced the broken gear like 4 months ago and it worked again, now its 99600 km, so i cant tell whats the exact mileage in it.
about the broken guides, im talking about the chain guides that sit on top of the chain between the cams on the driver side only, the passenger side is ok.
anyway i will look for them on ebay and order them online, till that time i will put the valve covers again on their place to prevent any dust to get into them.

 

[aliking]

I am sorry to hear of your car troubles. Please follow Gerry's advice. I had to go through this on my car at about 170k miles but I found the problem before I had any engine trouble. Good luck with your repair.

thank you mr Ricardo, i appreciate ur reply

 

[gerryvz]

Aah, I see. Just the guides on top of the timing chain. They are cheap parts, as I mentioned above. Just order them and replace.

If your engine stopped, I have a sneaking suspicion that something else is wrong. You may want to have a professional do a more thorough investigation.

 

[gsxr]

Does the engine rotate easily when turning the 27mm nut at the crankshaft? If so, check to see where the cams pin. Spec is 45° BTDC and you may find each one pins in a slightly different location, possibly between 35-45° BTDC. If you measure anything drastically different, you'll need to re-set the cams which are out of spec, and hope there was no further damage.

 

[aliking]

i attached this video to the car before i take off the valve covers

 

[aliking]

Aah, I see. Just the guides on top of the timing chain. They are cheap parts, as I mentioned above. Just order them and replace.

If your engine stopped, I have a sneaking suspicion that something else is wrong. You may want to have a professional do a more thorough investigation.

thats what i will do, i will take it to a professional m119 mechanic and see what else is wrong, i think the timing skipped more than 2 teeth and damaged the valves

 

[aliking]

Does the engine rotate easily when turning the 27mm nut at the crankshaft? If so, check to see where the cams pin. Spec is 45° BTDC and you may find each one pins in a slightly different location, possibly between 35-45° BTDC. If you measure anything drastically different, you'll need to re-set the cams which are out of spec, and hope there was no further damage.

yes mr gsxr, it rotates very easily like there is no compression, i think there is a bigger damage from what i read on this forum.

 

[gsxr]

If the spark plugs are removed, it's normal for the engine to spin freely. With spark plugs installed, it should move easily for a short bit, then get harder to rotate as engine compression builds in a cylinder, then releases, etc. Hope you don't have bent valves or something.

 

[aliking]

If the spark plugs are removed, it's normal for the engine to spin freely. With spark plugs installed, it should move easily for a short bit, then get harder to rotate as engine compression builds in a cylinder, then releases, etc. Hope you don't have bent valves or something.

i will test the compresssion of the cylinders to check if the valves are bent, i think it will not be easy repair.

 

[aliking]

hello again guys
today the mechanic checked the pressure in both sides, its sad that no pressure on the gauge, here is a video for the test, now i think i have bent valves and i have to take off the engine head and replace the valves with used good condition valves.

 

[aliking]

Hello guys, i hope everybody is safe and in good health.
After a long days of quarantine, i finally twoed my car again to the mechanic center to repair the engine.
What we found after taking off the engine off the car and disassemble the engine heads is.
1- all valves are bented and needs replacement
2- upper rails are broken and needs replacement
3- engine cylindee heads are in a great condition , no bent no overheat symtoms after inspection
4- the lower rail 119-050-04-16 in a very good condition and no need to change it, so i will not have to remove the front engine block to replace this rail.
5- valve stem seals will need replacement along with the valves replacement
6- i ordered a chain and a chain tensioner and im replacing them

Any advice would be very appreciated

 

[gsxr]

Oh no. Any idea what cause the problem?

I'd reconsider using Trucktec-brand chain rails unless they are OEM Mercedes parts with MB part number on them. And I'd only use Genuine MB valve stem seals...

 

[RicardoD]

Sorry to hear the news but looks like you are making progress.

 

[aliking]

Yes they are truktec oem, but i couldnt find geniune valve stem seals, i only found victor rienz, are they good?
Thank you gsxr and Recardo for the help.

 

[gsxr]

Are the Trucktec items repackaged OEM? Is there a Mercedes part number on each plastic chain rail?

Also, can you post a photo of the Victor Reinz seals?

 

[gerryvz]

The Victor Reinz seals will be better than Trucktec.

 

[Rouven036]

Other than that use all rails and chain MB only. Available at your local mb dealer (or at least to order). Also ensure proper cleanliness while working on the open engine, seeing the surrounding area and background of your pictures. While you are in there anyways, consider to change front and rear crank oil seals, lower oil pan seal, oil pump strainer, power steering return hoses etc.
Further, assuming you are located in the middle east, see that these gaskets you got are not that old since storage conditions in the souk stores are often at similar temperatures as ambient. So materials age quicker....

 

[aliking]

Thank you gsxr, the trucktec chains with mercedes number on the pack only, inside its trucktec stamp and made in germany in yellow printing, the victor reinz seals are in cartoon pack, will post picture for them wheb i go to the mechanic shop.
Thank you Gerryvz, i will use them, bcoz the other brand i found here is (dph) and its not famous as victor reinz, im also using a febi timing chain tensioner, but i read in lot of posts that u dont prefer febi tensioners, but i found that its a swag tensioner packed in a febi cartoon, the timing chain brand is Wippermann, i dont know if its as good as ewis.
Thank you Rouven, im putting plastic bags on each side to protect the engine from any dirts, i did my best to find mb parts but no luck specially with quarntine in my country, but i was lucky to find the upper 4 rails original mb this afternoon, im changing the oil pump strainer and the rear crank seal, but i forgot about the front crank seal and the ps return hoses, im also changing the oil level sensor with new oem one, and the intake manifold gaskets.

 

[gerryvz]

Just because the package says "Trucktec Germany" DOES NOT mean that it was MADE in Germany. Several manufacturers including Febi and Meyle do this -- they have "Germany" in their name, but many if not most of the products they sell are not made there.

It must say exactly "Made in Germany" to be beliveable. A SWAG timing chain tensioner in a Febi box is OK - the tensioner should say SWAG and "Made in Germany" on the tensioner.

Trucktec products are nearly all Chinese made and should NEVER be installed on a car. Did you look at the approved parts manufacturer list thread? If a part does not say Made in Germany on it, then do not use it (if in a Febi or other package).

Reinz products are OK. But if you can get an Elring product as an alternative, I would go with that preferably. Otherwise Reinz is OK.

You MUST MUST MUST be careful with stuff like Trucktec and Febi.

 

[aliking]

Just because the package says "Trucktec Germany" DOES NOT mean that it was MADE in Germany. Several manufacturers including Febi and Meyle do this -- they have "Germany" in their name, but many if not most of the products they sell are not made there.

It must say exactly "Made in Germany" to be beliveable. A SWAG timing chain tensioner in a Febi box is OK - the tensioner should say SWAG and "Made in Germany" on the tensioner.

Trucktec products are nearly all Chinese made and should NEVER be installed on a car. Did you look at the approved parts manufacturer list thread? If a part does not say Made in Germany on it, then do not use it (if in a Febi or other package).

Yes Gerry, please can u read my previous reply, i just edited it.

 

[aliking]

Here is another picture for the rail, written on it Made In Germany
I would like to thank you again Gerry, i always take ur advices in all posts. Happy to be a member in this forum.

 

[Rouven036]

That's exactly the issue, it says truck tec Germany and this is considered as a name only with no relevance to the actual place where it is made. As stated earlier, do not trust truck tec, febi etc.
Mechanical parts is a clear advice to get original only.
Maybe trucktec or febi,meyle and Co can be considered if the part to change is easy accessible (I personally will never use them) but certainly not inside an engine where huge labor is implied and/or other (expensive) components are at risk in case of failure. What you find around might be cheaper and available instantly but is not recommended even though the mechanics are telling you. I have a couple of years of experience in that region and know how it works in most most most of the garages. Currently in middle East you should be able to get parts from your dealer if parts are available in dubai rlc within 7 to 10 days max (4 days should be possible via courier order), in case parts are available in Germany only, shall take you in average 10 to 14days....

 

[aliking]

That's exactly the issue, it says truck tec Germany and this is considered as a name only with no relevance to the actual place where it is made. As stated earlier, do not trust truck tec, febi etc.
Mechanical parts is a clear advice to get original only.
Maybe trucktec or febi,meyle and Co can be considered if the part to change is easy accessible (I personally will never use them) but certainly not inside an engine where huge labor is implied and/or other (expensive) components are at risk in case of failure. What you find around might be cheaper and available instantly but is not recommended even though the mechanics are telling you. I have a couple of years of experience in that region and know how it works in most most most of the garages. Currently in middle East you should be able to get parts from your dealer if parts are available in dubai rlc within 7 to 10 days max (4 days should be possible via courier order), in case parts are available in Germany only, shall take you in average 10 to 14days....

Hello mr Rouven, i twoed my car back to home, and i kept the engine in the mechanic shop till i order geniune mb chains, im not using trucktec or febi. Its ok for me to take more time but i want good results, as u said those parts are not easy to replace at anytime, and i want to keep my car's original engine in good condition. Thank you again for ur advices, and i want to ask Gerry about this brand (bapmic) to see where he will put it in the parts brand thread (picture shows bapmic chain)

 

[gerryvz]

I am not familiar with any brand of timing chain other than IWIS. And, IWIS is the OEM for MB chains, but also available on the aftermarket. 100% trusted brand.

Again the label on that "BAPMIC" chain says "BAPMIC GERMANY" -- very similar to Meyle Germany or Trucktec Germany or Febi Germany. But it is NOT any type of guarantee that the product was MADE IN GERMANY.

Is it true that that BAPMIC packages came with the gold "made in China" label on it? You didn't add these China labels -- ? If this is correct -- I would dig a 2-meter deep hole in the ground, and bury the BAPMIC chain and plastic chain rails at the bottom of the hole, and put the dirt back. This is the fate that the BAPMIC parts deserve. Certainly not on a car.

 

[gsxr]

For the record... I would not install plastic rail guides that do not have the Mercedes logo and part number. The OE Genuine Mercedes rails are not expensive, and failure of these parts can cause you to repeat the whole job in the future.

Gerry, since you have these parts loose for your current project, can you confirm that all the OE rails have MB part numbers and Star logo?

 

[gerryvz]

For the record... I would not install plastic rail guides that do not have the Mercedes logo and part number. The OE Genuine Mercedes rails are not expensive, and failure of these parts can cause you to repeat the whole job in the future.

Gerry, since you have these parts loose for your current project, can you confirm that all the OE rails have MB part numbers and Star logo?

Here are the three "real" MB factory upper chain rail parts (excepting the large "banana rail"). Indeed, both of the parts (one of the rails is used twice) have the MB star and part number on them. Note that they are made in Germany, as well.

 

[Rouven036]

Then good luck and progress, hope your parts will arrive soon.

 

[aliking]

Hello all, i ordered new mb rails. Im waiting and will not place any other brand. Till that time im cleaning the engine bay, changing the hood insulation pad, also replacing all vaccum lines, and cleaning engine outer parts like valve covers and ps pump.
Again, thank you all for ur help.

 

[gerryvz]

Hello all, i ordered new mb rails. Im waiting and will not place any other brand. Till that time im cleaning the engine bay, changing the hood insulation pad, also replacing all vaccum lines, and cleaning engine outer parts like valve covers and ps pump.
Again, thank you all for ur help.

Hello -- do you have any updates on how the repairs went, and if things turned out OK and you are driving the car again?

 

[aliking]

Hello -- do you have any updates on how the repairs went, and if things turned out OK and you are driving the car again?

Hello mr gerry
Im happy to tell you that everything is ok now.
I changed all the parts you and other members mentioned above.
The car now runs great again, the work delay was only bcoz of covid-19.
I think the engine now is ready to work for another 10years hopefully.
Again im really thankful to all of you here, honestly this forum learned me lot of things about the E500.
Here are some photos