Can anyone recommend a fan clutch at all? (and a couple of other quick questions)

[silver50]

Hi all,

I'm in the UK and have just completed quite a major underbody restoration on a 94 SL500 and have resprayed the vehicle too. It's currently at a small shop that an ex MB tech runs. It's hesitating when blipping throttle. I've installed new upper harness and TB was checked/rewired, Done all the obvious ignition parts incl coils. This is one of his jobs to hopefully help "tie up" all my work.

The fan clutch spring dislodged just not long ago. The original clutch is gone now having bought an "NRF" one. It's hopeless. I hadn't realised it was difficult to get a good one. Can anyone help on choosing one? (from Autodoc in Germany) : RIDEX, DASIS, TRUCKTEC AUTOMOTIVE or VEMO? Or (from Rock Auto) : BECK/ARNLEY, URO PARTS, HAYDEN, FOUR SEASONS, GMB, US MOTOR WORKS. Thanks

I was watching (as I often do) vs and vs Restore your Mercedes on YouTube. Some of you might have seen Victor has been working on a 500E. It isn't unlike what my SL was like. It too had not been used for a number of years. Q: Is it not unusual that over time there can look like there's a bit of "goo" build up at the inlet manifold onto the cylinder head? I noticed Victor's car had this on it's M119. I saw this slight brown oily goopiness when I removed the TB. It's hard though, not like drippy oil. Victors 500E seemed to be running great after his work so there was obviously not big vacuum leaks.

Lastly, why oh why hasn't there been a scan tool made that replicated the Mercedes HHT? I don't understand why there are Chinese made multiplexers etc but not a simple all in one computer like the HHT. Even if it only did the engine.

TIA

 

[Markus-MD]

Old snap on tester can doo this .And used C3 C4 Stardiagnosis are emulate the HHT

 

[silver50]

Old snap on tester can doo this .And used C3 C4 Stardiagnosis are emulate the HHT

Interesting re old snap on, I've not heard that before. I assume you mean the laptop/multiplexer etc you'd need for C3/4. I wanted to try and set myself up with that but I'm not the greatest with computers and it always looks quite involved. I've read most of this Exploring the MB STAR C3 (SDS) | De-Coding which was good but didn't inspire me with confidence!

 

[gsxr]

I'm in the UK and have just completed quite a major underbody restoration on a 94 SL500 and have resprayed the vehicle too. It's currently at a small shop that an ex MB tech runs. It's hesitating when blipping throttle. I've installed new upper harness and TB was checked/rewired, Done all the obvious ignition parts incl coils. This is one of his jobs to hopefully help "tie up" all my work.

Is it still hesitating when blipping the throttle after all new ignition components? Have you cleared and re-checked fault codes on all powertrain modules after test driving?

The fan clutch spring dislodged just not long ago.

Was this on the OE Sachs/Horton clutch? That is very unusual, unless someone had previously tried to "adjust" the clutch by bending the bracket which holts the flat spring. If it's bent outward a hair too much, the spring will pop out. However, there is a plastic shield on the 129/140 clutch which should keep the spring from being lost. Might be able to fix it, unless you already tossed it? (Nevermind - I see below that the old clutch is gone. )

The original clutch is gone now having bought an "NRF" one. It's hopeless. I hadn't realised it was difficult to get a good one. Can anyone help on choosing one? (from Autodoc in Germany) : RIDEX, DASIS, TRUCKTEC AUTOMOTIVE or VEMO? Or (from Rock Auto) : BECK/ARNLEY, URO PARTS, HAYDEN, FOUR SEASONS, GMB, US MOTOR WORKS. Thanks

They are all crap. The challenge is to find the best of the crap. I have a feeling there are only 2 or 3 factories in China making these, and all the above brands are reboxing the same stuff. There are NOT a dozen different clutches available. Only a dozen reboxers / labels on the outside of the box.

You could get a good used OE clutch (119-200-00-22) and hope for the best, however these may have calibration issues similar to the W124 clutches (which are slightly different, but the same basic design). These early m119 clutches are extremely robust and do not wear out or leak fluid, but may need calibration if not engaging by ~100°C coolant temp.

The BEST solution is to scrap the viscous clutch entirely and custom-install a factory PWM electric fan with aftermarket controller. This isn't cheap, and requires some fabrication, but has better functionality in every way. Upgrade to a 150A alternator if you do this (also plug+play). DO NOT install an aftermarket electric fan. Full stop. Factory PWM, or mechanical viscous are your fan options.

I was watching (as I often do) vs and vs Restore your Mercedes on YouTube. Some of you might have seen Victor has been working on a 500E. It isn't unlike what my SL was like. It too had not been used for a number of years. Q: Is it not unusual that over time there can look like there's a bit of "goo" build up at the inlet manifold onto the cylinder head? I noticed Victor's car had this on it's M119. I saw this slight brown oily goopiness when I removed the TB. It's hard though, not like drippy oil. Victors 500E seemed to be running great after his work so there was obviously not big vacuum leaks.

There is always a trace of oil oozing from the timing cover and upper cylinder head area, which over time mixes with dirt, and creates a thick goop. If you clean it off spotless, you'll see the trace of oil coming out after driving a few hundred miles. The Band-Aid fix is to apply an external bead of RTV over the seams which are oozing. This isn't pretty, but it is functional. Click here and here to see what I'm talking about, the same would apply up near the intake manifold / cylinder head gasket area. The intake cam solenoids are persistent leakers, if those have not been replaced or re-sealed as shown here, that could be causing some of your goo buildup.

Lastly, why oh why hasn't there been a scan tool made that replicated the Mercedes HHT? I don't understand why there are Chinese made multiplexers etc but not a simple all in one computer like the HHT. Even if it only did the engine.

Why oh why? No demand. It's a niche market. Most MB owners don't own tools, let alone have any interest in using them. The Snap-On MT2500 has limited functionality. With the correct MB software AND hardware, it can do about 85-90% of what HHT / HHT-Win can do, for a W124 with V8 engine. On the R129, maybe 60-75% (pretty sure the Snap-On doesn't support all the additional R129 body modules - only powertrain).

Your best bet is to get SDS with HHT-Win support, however as you noted in that thread, it's become difficult to buy something that has a fully populated 38-pin cable, and actually works with all powertrain modules. Real shame all the vendors don't seem to care about this, but again, we are a tiny percentage of their customer base. Most SDS buyers are using DAS/Xentry on OBD-2 cars, not messing with our "ancient" OBD-1 models.

 

[Markus-MD]

correkt Snap on solus can only Engine Traction and Gearbox for NAG1, read and delete, not more. but fore this its the best. Fast and work.

For all other, StarDiagnostics.

 

[silver50]

Thanks v much for your informed replies.

I hadn’t checked for or cleared any codes after fitting the wiring loom, the ETA and ignition parts. I perhaps should have tried with blink code reading and clearing.

Because of all the replacement of suspension etc the car hasn’t really been driven with A) badly needing alignment and B) not being road legal (UK MoT test and this likely means needing the running issue sorted. It was smelling very rich). If it had been running fine I would’ve taken it for alignment myself and then tried some driving but I had to take a decision on moving the project forward. Hence taking it to the ex MB tech to (hopefully) complete some tasks.

Yes, the fan clutch was the original, inside the plastic basket. I’ve no idea why the metal strip suddenly dislodged. It gave me a fright clattering like something deadly had happened! BTW my new replacement was too engaged (not at all free and roaring from the off at idle). Engine of course was not fully warming up with it. To add insult to injury I accidentally ordered the same NRF make again when I’d wanted to try a different one. Looking on here I see there’s a Febi (17996). But it has a different part number to 1192000022. 1192000122. Is it an option?

I would like to have some diagnostic capability myself. I was looking at the old snap on machines earlier. Being that there is quite a following for “modern classic” MB’s I’d have thought there might be enough demand for a diagnostic tool. I say this mainly upon seeing there has obviously been demand for the Chinese SDS clones.

My man with the car seems somewhat quiet. Hoping he gets on ok with it.

 

[gsxr]

OE Sachs/Horton fan clutches 119-200-00-22 and 119-200-01-22 are similar, but the #01 is slightly more compact to fit the 124 chassis, and has an "open" plastic cover.

All of the aftermarket Chinese clutches are a completely different design, much thinner, and require a shorter mounting bolt. These aftermarket clutches will be identical for both the #00 and #01. Probably the same exact stuff in the box, with a different label. And you discovered one of the annoyances of the skinny aftermarket clutches, they tend to be engaged at all times, regardless of engine temp. However, if the engine never warms up, that's not the fault of the clutch... the thermostat is defective and needs to be replaced.

There is a decent following for classic MB's, but the LH-SFI system was only used on certain models between 1990-1995, with relatively low total production and even lower numbers still on the road. So in comparison, the number of people who want/need OBD-2 support is several orders of magnitude larger. SDS with HHT-Win is what we need for LH-SFI, and it's available, just a hassle to get a working setup. Because this is available, no vendor is interested in reinventing the wheel to create a new, separate diagnostic tool that would duplicate what HHT-Win already does.

 

[silver50]

Thanks. Unless a coincidence I assumed the fan clutch was my culprit on not heating up fully. It was fine before with the one that failed. I can’t remember exactly what the temp gauge showed but it was only getting up to about half the temperature it did previously. This all being on idle so I don’t know if it’d warm up more getting driven. No doubt the fan was roaring, unlike previously. The part I bought came with a shorter bolt.

 

[gsxr]

If you let the engine idle long enough, it should eventually come up to normal temp, which is 80°C on the gauge. If it doesn't hit 80C, the thermostat is bad. It will get to 80C faster if driven.

That's good the skinny clutch included the correct bolt. I hadn't heard if the clutch reboxers were finally getting smart and including that (major CSAT issue otherwise).

 

[silver50]

Thanks for all your input, much appreciated

 

[silver50]

Just an interim update and another couple of questions if I may.

My ex MB tech who has my car at his shop has seeminging had the HHT onto it (‘94 500SL). He’s saying it looks like the MAF is bad. I’m not sure what he’s ordered to replace the OE Bosch but he seems to have something arriving..
My issue was hesitation from idle when blipping throttle. Certainly there was zero running difference with the MAF disconnected but I know that often doesn’t mean much. So we’ll see..

Can bad wiring harnesses kill an MAF? My car had bad wiring but it actually got a new MAF from Mercedes a year or so before the vehicle went out of use. Hence wondering if bad wiring may have killed the newish MAF. I noticed it looked almost new when I removed the ETA.

Next, I could get an MAF from a damaged. ‘94 S420. I bought it’s fan clutch today. I await a price. It has however been lying in a for a long time (15+ years). If it’s a reasonable price is it worth buying as a spare (even putting aside the supposed current issue getting resolved)? Same question re its E-GAS module and LH module. Is there anything else like that I should perhaps buy?

Many thanks.

 

[gsxr]

My ex MB tech who has my car at his shop has seeminging had the HHT onto it (‘94 500SL). He’s saying it looks like the MAF is bad. I’m not sure what he’s ordered to replace the OE Bosch but he seems to have something arriving.

I'm curious what he saw via HHT to lead him to believe the MAF was bad. You need to look at live airflow data at varying RPM's. Since these are NLA, most likely he just found a used one for sale.

My issue was hesitation from idle when blipping throttle. Certainly there was zero running difference with the MAF disconnected but I know that often doesn’t mean much. So we’ll see..

If the MAF is defective, the car should run better with it disconnected. If there's no change, that generally indicates the MAF isn't the problem.

Can bad wiring harnesses kill an MAF? My car had bad wiring but it actually got a new MAF from Mercedes a year or so before the vehicle went out of use. Hence wondering if bad wiring may have killed the newish MAF. I noticed it looked almost new when I removed the ETA.

I think it is unlikely that a bad harness could kill a new MAF. I don't know for sure. @Klink? Definitely hang on to that almost-new one!

Next, I could get an MAF from a damaged. ‘94 S420. I bought it’s fan clutch today. I await a price. It has however been lying in a for a long time (15+ years). If it’s a reasonable price is it worth buying as a spare (even putting aside the supposed current issue getting resolved)? Same question re its E-GAS module and LH module. Is there anything else like that I should perhaps buy?

Yes, it's worth buying the spare MAF, assuming it checks out OK (they are relatively rare failures, so odds are in your favor). The 4.2L LH module is mostly good for test purposes only, the 5.0L have different fuel programming (although, you could swap EPROMs). E-GAS from the 140 will work for testing in the 129 but cruise control will not work. The MAF would definitely be of interest at the right price. LH/E-GAS would need to be pretty cheap.

 

[silver50]

Thanks for the advice on the spares.

Apart from seeing if unplugging the MAF did anything regarding it was just at idle nothing changed, I don’t actually know if my hesitation upon revving was improved or not. I should have tried I guess.

He said the HHT showed most systems looked to be functioning fine. I assume from looking at live data. I imagine there’s a fault code for the MAF? He said he reset the LH adaptations and got a slight improvement but it sounded like a fault must have still showed in some way for the MAF. I imagine this second hand info of mine isn’t a lot of help!

His working life was at MB for I believe around 25-30 years. I’m not certain he’s had a lot of need to use the HHT for some time but I’d like to think he’s still fairly familiar with it/my age of car.

 

[gsxr]

There can be a fault code for a completely failed MAF, but a failed or failing MAF may not necessarily store a fault code. Live data is the main criteria to use when evaluating an MAF.

LH adaptations can indicate problems if they are near the limits (either rich or lean), but resetting generally isn't going to help anything. They will adapt again back to where they had been, unless something changes.

Guess we'll see what happens when the replacement MAF arrives!

 

[silver50]

Yes, exactly!

Thanks

 

[silver50]

This MAF is the one I got delivered today from the S420. I thought it was a 1994 car. Turns out build date 12/95. MB part: 000 094 07 48 and Bosch number 0 280 217 807. But it’s not what I expected! Different to my Bosch metal one on my 1994 500 R129.

This is a film one isnt it rather than hot wire? I can probably sell it if it’s no good to me (I believe I got it at a good price) but I’m just surprised. It seems to incorporate the air temperature sensor too. I thought when I physically saw the S420 that is was the same as my car with distributer caps. Maybe it’s the version that moved on to coil packs?

It’s not been an updated part from Mercedes has it?

 

[gsxr]

Yep... wrong part, that is hot film for later ME 1.0 injection systems. Won't work on your car, and also none of the other modules will work at all (the 12/95 car will not have LH, E-GAS, EZL). And yes, the 12/95 car has coil packs... not distributors.

The 12/95 production car would be "1996 Model Year" in USA. Coil packs / etc started in MY96 here in the colonies... roughly 08/1995 production date.

 

[silver50]

Thanks. Bit of a blow! Not to worry.