Cheers, new here....

[Duh_Vinci]

Cheers all!

New here, from Virginia, not new to MB, but certainly new to M119. I've owned many MB cars over the years and still have few, never a V8.

First and foremost, I must say how much I appreciate the “How To” topics here written by MB enthusiasts! Exceptionally well written and documented and organized!

I recently purchased (initially for parts) 1995 SL500, been sitting outside for 2 years, didnt want to start, did not want to stay running, lazy transmission, and slew of other things... I've spend hours and hours reading your articles, once I realized how much R129 cars share with W124 in terms of drivetrain and suspension. The information here is beyond valuable and I thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with the world!!!

Prior owner (one family since new) gave up on the car after it developed intermittent issues with idle, excessive fuel consumption, stalling under load... Its been through few shops under his ownership but no resolution... The only reason why I even gave this car a chance, he spent thousands of $$ on new harness, rebuilt TB, all new ignition components and more... And the body straight as an arrow.

I got the car to run (fairly well, still need to go trough adaptation process, still have few things to go over) after replacing every vacuum hose, line, elbows, connector etc, intake temp sensor and MAF. Prior shop what worked on it made a huge mess of vacuum lines, all wrong!

Engine appears to be very strong and powerful and last week it had it's “maiden voyage” and nowI'm willing to restore it. Next is suspension components and upgrading brakes to SL600 caliper units with 320mm rotors. All has to be 100% driving, handling and stopping before going to the paint booth. So it is indeed a project, but I just din't want the car to go to the scrap yard..

Again, thank you for all the information you have available on this forum immensely valuable !


Regards,
D

 

[gsxr]

Welcome aboard! Sounds like a nice project you have there.

Be warned... the SL600 320mm front brake rotors sit ~6mm further inward, and require modifications to fit. Normally the proper fix is to install the late-style LCA's (used on all years of SL600) but those are NLA from MB as of last week, and aftermarket can't be trusted. If you can locate used ones with tight ball joints and intact balljoint boots, you can rebuild a set by installing new rubber bushings and a new BJ boot. Otherwise, you'll need to cut a hole in the dust shield and most likely need to grind the outer face of the existing LCA for clearance. Any less than ~2mm airgap will result in rubbing when turning. Click here for detailed photos.

 

[TerryA]

Welcome!!

Thanks for saving another Benz from an early ‘BONEYARD DEATH’. A 95 R129 SL500 is a nice model to have if you have the space for it. Some of our members do have one. Sounds like the PO gave up to soon after spending a lot of $$$ trying to get it back in shape. After 23 years of ownership all he could see setting in front of him was a ‘MONEY PIT’ especially if he was paying someone else to do the work.

How many miles on your new to you SL500? The M119 engine is good for a long life if it was serviced properly.
We have one member here w/ 625K miles on the original engine but many here w/ 200K+ Miles also.

Although it’s not a 124 036 E500E or a 126 Coupe you can find a lot of relevant info in regards to the drivetrain.

BUT BE WARNED!! if you stick around to long you will end up with a genuine 124 036 E500E!!

Good Luck w/ your new project.

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Dave,

Very much appreciate the info on the conversion, I've seen your site and used it so many times for various projects! Few weeks ago I had the opportunity to purchase ATE calipers from SL600 and a set of Brembo for 334mm rotors from the late SL500 at a very reasonable price! I indeed, after looking at your comparison pictures on LCA units, and after reading few posts on conversion, I updated LCA units arrived last week



My hope is that I can use my freshly refurbished old LCA units from my SL320 to accept 320mm rotors with ATE SL600 calipers with the dust shield modification (since I believe 320mm units are few mm thinner than the Bembo set) and use the updated LCA set with the Brembo 334mm setup... Thanks for for heads up, appreciate it indeed!


Terry,

Yes, I should have bought a proper 036 when I had a chance years ago, now, it maybe a long shot based on their current values. Nevertheless, there were 3 cars in the early 90's were a dream "poster" cars for me: 500E and Mosselman "Silver Arrow" C124 and R129 cars. Still timeless and beautiful!

M119 has 119K miles, it is very quiet, very smooth running. It has some minor "seepage/wetness" in few areas, but no leaks. Been reading few threads here on various oils M119 owners use, so will see... all the choices! For now, I changed the oil to basic dyno Castrol 10w40, since I will draining it again in about hundred miles (second oil change in less than 2 weeks), just want to make sure it cleans up well and ready to be fully road worthy.

Here is the "good side"




Regards,
D

 

[gsxr]

Sounds good! What brand late LCA's did you buy? I can't quite tell from the photo above.

The 334mm rotors sit ±1mm further inward than the 320mm rotors, btw.

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Every millimeter counts, right? These are Febi 15694 and 15695 units.

Regards,
D

 

[gsxr]

Every millimeter counts, right? These are Febi 15694 and 15695 units.

D'oh. If you use those, check the ball joints for play frequently - like, every few thousand miles. There have been reports from several different people where the Febi LCA's had ball joint failures after only a few thousand miles. Click here to read one story on a 500E, click here for another interesting thread. If possible, I'd return them for a refund, too much hassle vs potential risk / lost $$$.

 

[gerryvz]

D'oh. If you use those, check the ball joints for play frequently - like, every few thousand miles. There have been reports from several different people where the Febi LCA's had ball joint failures after only a few thousand miles. Click here to read one story on a 500E, click here for another interesting thread. If possible, I'd return them for a refund, too much hassle vs potential risk / lost $$$.

+1

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Wow... Did read, and this what makes your forum so unique, hand on, enthusiasts, tried, experimented, tracked then feedback based on all of the above!

So if can't trust Febi/Bilstein anymore... Disappointing indeed! I've used their products with no premature failures in the past, but I guess times have changed! For better or worse, these are made in India, and according to PFC, these were old stock clearance... They also included the following

"FCP Eurp Lifetime Promise: Every auto part you buy from FCP Euro is guaranteed for life, for as long as you own the vehicle. Our Lifetime Replacement Guarantee covers everything we sell, including wear-and-tear items like brake pads, gaskets, brake rotors, filters, and wiper blades..."

To return them now would be a hassle do to the size and weight of the package, so what I'm going to do (since I'm pretty much stuck with these), I will repack them with Redline as listed in the above mentioned threads, and run them on my SL320, in hopes that the lesser weight of of M104 would wear these as quickly.

Again, many thanks for your feedback, much appreciate it!

Regards,
D

 

[gerryvz]

FCP Euro does offer a warranty on things they sell. I don't know how many people actually take advantage of that, however.

For lower control arms, it's best to go with factory units, which have been made in recent years by TRW. Evidently they recently became NLA, at least the ones for the later cars, which as Dave says are required if you want to use larger brakes.

FEBI (which is NOT NOT NOT the same company as Bilstein the shock/strut company), is NOT a manufacturer of parts, and only re-boxes parts made elsewhere and by other vendors. So, when you get a Febi item, it's usually crapshoot as to the quality of the part you get. Much more often than not, it's a junk Chinese part, or something made in the Third World of poor or at best questionable quality.

Febi (FErdinand BIlstein) parts are often mistaken for the excellent quality Bilstein shocks and suspension parts, but they are unrelated companies. Then there are the companies like "Meyle" who put "Meyle Germany" on every package, because the company (Wulf Gaertner AG) is headquartered there, but if you look closer at the package, you'll see that the part is manufactured in China or other Third World countries.

The only thing that is probably OK these days to purchase from Febi, is flex discs, which seem to consistently be re-packaged SGF items (SGF is the OEM for the Mercedes units).

Read this thread, as it will inform you as to what brands are considered good, mediocre, and "never" to buy:
https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1919

You pay much more for MB OE parts, but you generally only have to replace them once. And, MB parts now have a two-year warranty on them, so if you can prove you bought a part from MB (online or through a dealer), then you can get a warranty on it if it fails.

 

[gsxr]

Wow...
So if can't trust Febi/Bilstein anymore... Disappointing indeed! I've used their products with no premature failures in the past, but I guess times have changed!

^^^ Yes. A long time ago, like 15+ years ago, Febi-Bilstein often reboxed OEM parts, and you had maybe a 50/50 chance of getting a decent part in the box. Today, for the 124 chassis at least, it's more like a 90/10 chance at best (90% cheap junk, 10% OEM). Maybe 95/5. The only item I'm aware of that has been consistently OEM are the V8 flex discs, Febi has been reboxing OEM SGF.

[edit - Gerry and I were typing at the same time, wooops.]



[edit - ]

 

[Duh_Vinci]

...Read this thread, as it will inform you as to what brands are considered good, mediocre, and "never" to buy:
https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1919 ...

Long list of good and bad, thank you!

Regards,
D

 

[Duh_Vinci]

So on that note of "Quality Parts", does anyone still make a full rear control arm kit? I see Meyle allover the net, but Lemfoerder would be preferred I guess... Or am I limited on getting these pieces individually and not as a kit? Lower unit I will just replace the bushings.

Regards,
D

 

[JC220]

In defence of Febi I have had good experiences with their parts of late. The following items were all OE made in Germany parts:

M104 Flex Discs (SGF)
Steering Damper (Stabilus)
Tensioner shock (Stabilus)


And wheel front + rear w124 wheel bearing kits which were Made In Germany and had the MB star stamped into the front Dust caps. The prices of all these parts were also a fraction of the MB dealer prices.

I have been a long critic of Febi too but many local parts stores only carry their parts. But as outlined above I have been getting OE parts in my orders so cannot complain at all. Credit where credit is due!! Indeed my Lemforder orders in recent months have been way more sketchy than Febi which is changed times.

The Febi LCA failures in yesteryear were due to the clear / crap quality Dust boots. As per recent threads on 500E board Febi have addressed this issue on current arms which come with soft black dust boots which do not pop of like the old ones did. I have a pair of these Febi LCA’s to fit which I will report back on how they last in a year or two. I also packed them with Redline grease to give them the best start in life.

Are the current TRW aftermarket arms any better than they were before? (Same dust boot issues IIRC) With the MB arms now NLA what is the best option for new? I’m quite sure many other companies produce these LCA’s. (Moog, First Line & the likes)

I would never expend effort in removing used LCA’s to re-use on my car’s but that’s just my opinion. New all the way even if the life span may not be 20 years like the arms these cars came with when new. Hell at the Febi prices on LCA’s even 3 - 4 years life would be a good deal.

IF the Lemforder early type LCA’s are still made in Germany you can grind the edge to allow clearance and have the added bonus of replaceable ball joints. I know some members prefer that route and it is certainly an option. I did that on my E36 build. But having a good option on new late LCA’s would be ideal. For now I think Febi’s current offerings are OK for the money until someone shows a failure on their current arms with improved dust boots.

After this rant I’ll let myself out now

 

[Klink]

Duh_Vinci ! That is such a fabulous handle! I feel like a dumbass for never having thought of it myself. Welcome aboard! As you already know, basically, if you have a SL500SL, you essentially have a two-seat E500E with a removable top. Not too shabby, those...

 

[gsxr]

I can't find the post (useless search function!) but I saved the photos. samiam44 on this forum cut apart a Febi and an OE late-style ball joint, you can see the differences... the Febi design is definitely inferior. Febi is the flat-bottomed one, with the thin steel bottom plate.

 

[500AMM]

I can't find the post (useless search function!) but I saved the photos. samiam44 on this forum cut apart a Febi and an OE late-style ball joint, you can see the differences... the Febi design is definitely inferior. Febi is the flat-bottomed one, with the thin steel bottom plate.

Post #47: https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4858

 

[500AMM]

In defence of Febi I have had good experiences with their parts of late
.......
.......

Great write up, Joe!
Since your experience varies from what the US members are seeing, does FEBI have different business units in the US and Europe? ...where FEBI repack business in Europe stays "closer" to use of OE parts?

 

[JC220]

I can't find the post (useless searchfunction!) but I saved the photos. samiam44 on this forum cut apart a Febi andan OE late-style ball joint, you can see the differences... the Febi design isdefinitely inferior. Febi is the flat-bottomed one, with the thin steel bottomplate

I recall seeing those pictures before and they are agreat resource! My thoughts are that the prime reason for most ball joint failures are usually down to the dust boots popping off on the inferior Febi arms of the past. Once the road dirt & water gets in the joint will quickly destroy itself. Those pictures and dissected ball joint are in year 2016 or prior. My point is simply that the Febi arms available now do not have the fatally flawed clear dust boot they once had - now they have soft black dust boots that stay on and are nice & flexible.

FYI for anyone that hasn't seen is before; here is a complete discussion on these arms in this thread. Please refer to post number 42 for pictures of my Febi arms received recently.

Great write up, Joe!
Since your experience varies from what the US members are seeing, does FEBIhave different business units in the US and Europe? ...where FEBI repackbusiness in Europe stays "closer" to use of OE parts?

That's an interesting thought but I wouldn't know the answer to be honest! My gut feeling is their parts will be the same worldwide - the main variable may simply be how long a vendor has had the item in inventory. The likes of Amazon would be a better bet to get 'fresh' produced parts since they will move more numbers than say a small parts store.

There are alot of crap Febi and other aftermarket parts out there which I do not deny. For example would you trust a Febi made in china transmission mount? Nope. You just have to do your homework on the specific parts you want to buy and even better buy them from somewhere with a hassle free returns policy - should an inferior item turn up you can send it right back.

Genuine MB parts are the best way forward in all cases. But if you can source OE Stabilus & SGF parts for example in Febi or other aftermarket boxes with significant savings then that's a very smart & safe way to save! I will be fitting the pair of Febi LCA's I have very soon to my 300E-24. I will keep the board informed of how they last - good, bad or indifferent.I need a second set at least so I may try another brand such as Moog - or Febi again who knows.

Has anyone recently bought the TRW aftermarket 124 LCA's? Very curious on the quality of those nowadays.

 

[gsxr]

Post #47: https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4858

THANK YOU! I have copied the source post to the other 2 threads above.

 

[Duh_Vinci]

I changed the diff fluid today, topped off transmission fluid (since B1 is leaking, have to add a little bit), and while under the car, trying to figure out how to attend the leaking B1 seal with out dropping the tranny inspected the front and rear flex discs - happy to see they are appear to be brand new and both have MB stamps with absolutely no signs of wear...

So now that I knew all these drive line components are good, all the fluids are brand new and she is good to go - for the first time since my ownership and 1st time in at least 2 years (since prior owner parked it) I drove it hard! So this is what you guys with M119 5.0 engines enjoy, fun fun fun!!! Gets ass happy quite willingly!

Still much to be done, but serious enjoyment this M119 R129 is! And come to think of it, I bought as a "parts car" for $900 to dismantle...



Regards,
D