Fails on All Accounts - 2019 CLS - verschlimmbessern

[Jlaa]

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mer...enz-cls-class-2019-car-of-the-year-contender/

This is what happens when MB stops focusing on long-lasting modernity and starts focusing on chasing fashion.

MB for 25 years has been engaged in verschlimmbessern.

 

[ace10]

...focusing on chasing fashion.
...

IMO, this picture of silly multi-color LED lighting on overly stylized HVAC vents perfectly demonstrates your comment.

 

[a777fan]

Reviews like these are almost satisfying to read given the obvious direction of the company over last few decades. I often wonder if they have passed a point of no-return, or if the current situation is salvageable.

Conversely, I also wonder if they are doing everything ‘right’. I mean, who cares about chassis dynamics if you spend all your time ranting at the service desk about the fact that your grill star isn’t illuminated with the power of 4 neutron stars? AMG now seems to be among the worlds most desirable fashion brands, right up there with Gucci and YSL, and looks best parked in the lot outside your kids next soccer practice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[maw1124]

I think I disagree with all of this. I didn’t like the CLS until the 2012 restyle, blunting the nose. Since then, I think it fits dead on between the EClass and the SClass. Almost a smaller, more performance oriented SClass in my view, as the SClass is affirmatively a whale since the W220 chassis. Problem is, the interior has been all EClass. I’ve seen some outfitted with a 4seater package (like our 500E), alcantara headliner (I think, don’t quote me), pano roof, but even then, that TV looking nav system haphazardly stuck onto the dash ruined it for me.

Finally, it looks like they have the integrated dash a la W222 SClass, and depending upon the option packages, a winner in my books — again for someone who wants to stand apart from (and perhaps above) the EClass but doesn’t want to drive a whale (let alone maintain one), and isn’t quite ready to ball out for the GT-4door (garish AMG on full display). Alas, the build tool on mbusa is still fitted for 2018 models, so I can’t tell what’s on offer. But a CLS AMG with lavish wood and leather interior, all wheel drive, integrated dash, rear seat appointments (4seater, heated, cool, recline) and sans carbon fiber boy racer package, might actually tick my boxes.

In short, you only want it to go like an AMG, not look like one. That’s been the case since the beginning — you wanted AMG to fit your drive train and suspension, and leave the rest of their garishness to themselves.

maw

P.S. Another review, mentioning the 500E even...https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2019-mercedes-benz-cls-class-first-drive-review; and another one, which captures my sentiments...the marketing department is just confused...https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2019-Mercedes-Benz-CLS-Class-Overview-c27606

 

[alabbasi]

I love the CLS styling, especially the last generation wagon which was available in Europe with a big diesel engine and a 9 speed automatic. I do agree with everything being said about MB's current strategy. They are diluting their own brand in order to make a quick buck. I expect to see 'zero deposit, and no payment for the first 6 months' in the next round of commercials.

 

[Jlaa]

IMO, this picture of silly multi-color LED lighting on overly stylized HVAC vents perfectly demonstrates your comment.

View attachment 83276

:thank you: !!!!


MORE THIS PLEASE:




NOT THIS:

 

[ace10]

Anybody notice anything unusual here?






I haven't logged on to the PL in several years... I *almost* feel like heading over there and doing some serious trolling.


One of my last interactions over there was a live chat with the AMG brand people... I suggested that they were heading in the wrong direction, and their reply (paraphrased) was that I had no other option in the marketplace, so I should pound sand.

 

[Jlaa]

Is the plastic shroud supposed to make what is an inline-6 "look" as if it is a V engine????!?!?!?!?!
I thought BMW was the new Pontiac of Germany. Maybe MB is as well.

 

[nocfn]

Kinda looks like the wifes A207 V6 engine bay.

 

[maw1124]

They have to sell to today’s customer. Once you have ambient lighting, there’s no reason not to make it customizable by the customer. Today’s customer is garish, and understatement isn’t luxury to them — it’s just boring. It’s not just MB — Rolls and Bentley have gone the same way with blingy interior highlights and everything overly accented on the exterior. At least this CLS smoothed out some of the rough, angular accents of the sheet metal. But, their commitment to engineering, safety and quality remain.

I, for one, don’t miss the MB of the 1980s. I thought they were boring, even if they were well built. I liked the wolf in sheep’s clothing ethos. Now everything has a wolf’s clothing, and howl — oh well.

maw

 

[gerryvz]

I, for one, don’t miss the MB of the 1980s. I thought they were boring, even if they were well built.

They were SUPPOSED to be boring, and understated. That was always the point of MB, until the late 1990s.

What ruined it for me was when they started putting the grill stars on almost everything, starting with the MLs in 1997. It once was that ONLY the sportiest models had the center grill stars. Now it's an option if not standard on pretty much every Benz out there. To underscore this .. note that they didn't even put a center grill star on the 124 cabriolets.

What was notable about the MBs of the 1980s, and even into the 1990s, was that when you SAW a Benz, you KNEW it was a Benz. Even from a distance. They had presence, and that presence translated into respect based on the car's:

• sobriety of design (call it boring-ness if you want)
• sobriety of form and function
• restraint from over-garishment
• quality of materials
• quality of engineering safety qualities

I'm planning on purchasing a new C63 AMG on European Delivery (working with my local stealership now), and I have to be honest with you -- I'm struggling with it. REALLY struggling with it. Not only is the car garish, but all of the bling add-on optional packages just make the car worse. The nanny devices are killing me -- they are taking the joy out of driving. Not to mention that I really don't need 600HP, when 315 will do just fine.

I'm very very tempted just to spend the money on getting another high-end E500E and pushing it up to near-600Eric levels.

If it wasn't for the bucket-list item of getting a car on Yurro Delivery, I'd dismiss the idea altogether. But I want the YD experience so I can check it off my list.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Jlaa]

They have to sell to today’s customer. Once you have ambient lighting, there’s no reason not to make it customizable by the customer. Today’s customer is garish, and understatement isn’t luxury to them ...Rolls and Bentley have gone the same way with blingy interior highlights and everything overly accented on the exterior.

They were SUPPOSED to be boring, and understated. That was always the point of MB, until the late 1990s.

They had presence, and that presence translated into respect based on the car's:

• sobriety of design (call it boring-ness if you want)
• sobriety of form and function
• restraint from over-garishment
• quality of materials
• quality of engineering safety qualities

I'm planning on purchasing a new C63 AMG on European Delivery (working with my local stealership now), and I have to be honest with you -- I'm struggling with it. REALLY struggling with it. Not only is the car garish, but all of the bling add-on optional packages just make the car worse....

I have a theory on why this is ---- and is that we see the culture itself is changing. The culture is more accepting of coarseness - the proximate result of Globalization, as manifested initially by the formation of the EU and then with broader global links to the newly rich in Asia, light speed of internet communication, etc.

Not that I'm an anti-globalist mind you - I'm a firm believer in forming links and bonds that bind societies together expressly to avoid conflict. That being said, the theory goes something like this -

• Mid 1800s, "German" products were crap and inferior to English/French goods.
• 1871 - Formation of German State under aegis of Prussia - adoption of Prussian bureaucratic systems:
  • methodical organization
  • proper (impersonal) business relationships
  • emphasis on success of the organization over personal circumstances
• "Moral Code" of Prussian system adopted as Germanic
  • discipline
  • responsibility
  • obedience
  • diligence
• Protestant work ethic overlays on top of work as the chief meaning of life - and this also gives credence to the following values which are seen as virtuous:
  • Frugality
  • Moderation / Modesty
  • Negative attitudes towards ostentation
  • Negatives attitudes towards wastefulness

Of course, 2 cataclysmic wars in the meantime only served to reinforce all these values.

Once we hit the late 1980s / 1990s, we start to see the downside of modern globalization efforts - a relaxing of the traditional cultural norms, a loosening of the moral code. This is because:

• From outside in - German companies increasingly have to sell their wares and adapt their products to markets that do not share the traditional German "moral code" as derived from the Prussian state.

• From inside out - television, movies, Hollywood, Internet, Email, Instagram, websites, Reddit, etc etc .... all this serves from the inside out to show the "average German" a "moral code" which is different from the norm.

Which is why stuff seems more coarse, more vulgar, and more ostentatious today.

 

[nocfn]

JLAA for President 2020 (or a threat to take on the assumed speaker in 2020)...

 

[Jlaa]

... all of the bling add-on optional packages just make the car worse. T

Verschlimmbessern

From "The 10 most untranslatable German terms you should know" - https://matadornetwork.com/read/10-untranslatable-german-terms/

2. Verschlimmbessern. Which leads me to verschlimmbessern (the verb verschlimm means “to make things worse” and the verb verbessern means “to improve”). This word literally equates to making something worse during the act of trying to improve it.

 

[Bogeyman]

Speaking of the plethora of SL grilles on every model. I saw an ad for a new E class wagon with a traditional grille and I thought OK, they're finally starting to get it...

So I went on the site and did a "build". It showed the wagon with the SL grille. Further down in the build I found a "luxury option" that included a traditional
grille for only $1100 extra....

 

[gsxr]

Verschlimmbessern

From "The 10 most untranslatable German terms you should know" - https://matadornetwork.com/read/10-untranslatable-german-terms/

2. Verschlimmbessern. Which leads me to verschlimmbessern (the verb verschlimm means “to make things worse” and the verb verbessern means “to improve”). This word literally equates to making something worse during the act of trying to improve it.

My employer (or rather, top-level / "Cxx" management) has done this more times than I can count. ROTFL...

 

[ace10]

Is the plastic shroud supposed to make what is an inline-6 "look" as if it is a V engine????!?!?!?!?!
I thought BMW was the new Pontiac of Germany. Maybe MB is as well.

You're in the neighborhood...

 

[alabbasi]

Wasn't it Lee Iacocca who decided that the Lincoln Continental should be a Ford Thunderbird with a Rolls Royce grille? I'm not sure if globalization has anything to do with it. I think that it's more about market share and profit.

Gadgets have been a substitute for quality on cars for decades. It's pretty much how the domestic market competed for years. If you're a middle manager with a company car budget, you can either buy a bare bones Mercedes or a fully loaded Ford. Ford is improving their fit and finish so MB is finding it hard to compete so they're cutting costs, adding gadgets and expanding their product line. The strategy will be re-thought in the next recession.

 

[gerryvz]

Wasn't it Lee Iacocca who decided that the Lincoln Continental should be a Ford Thunderbird with a Rolls Royce grille? I'm not sure if globalization has anything to do with it. I think that it's more about market share and profit.

Gadgets have been a substitute for quality on cars for decades. It's pretty much how the domestic market competed for years. If you're a middle manager with a company car budget, you can either buy a bare bones Mercedes or a fully loaded Ford. Ford is improving their fit and finish so MB is finding it hard to compete so they're cutting costs, adding gadgets and expanding their product line. The strategy will be re-thought in the next recession.

Agree 100%. It’s all about selling cars and maximizing profits.

MB has been finding it ever-harder to compete since Acura came out in 1986, and Lexfiniti arrived on the scene for ‘89.

Do you remember the big MB “price cut” of 1994? They had to do it to compete with the Japanese. I’m sure Klink remembers it quite well.

The 1996 W210s cost 25% less to produce than the predecessor W124s. This allowed MB to maximize and even grow profits, despite the lower prices begun in 1994.

 

[maw1124]

Things change and businesses have to keep up. The W220 never got a triple star in the grille either, even on the "sporty" S55, which I sort of liked. It looks like Grandma's Mercedes (just like the 500E), but neither of them act like it. Unless your grandma is my mom, in which case all bets are off. I'm told she drives the 500E harder than I do. But I digress.

Gerry has nailed it. The Acura Legend and the Lexus LS400 made them completely re-think what they were doing. They were lighter and more powerful, and therefore more athletic, and every bit as reliable for all intents. I didn't mind that MB's looked boring. I did mind, however, that they drove heavy, ponderous and boring, at least to me. And then came Audi with the all aluminum space frame on the S8 -- more lighter athleticism. The result was the AMG acquisition -- a welcome development in my book. To my teenage eyes, they drove just like the Cadillac in the driveway, just cost double or triple -- I didn't understand.

A similar thing is happening with single malt scotches right now. Since the Japanese have entered that ultra-premium market, everyone else has to be open to doing today what would have been considered sacrilege 10 years ago. "Aged in cognac barrels?!?!?! A pox on your house for considering it!!"

I'm happy when competition drives market innovation. Mercedes still has the best profit margin of any manufacturer, because they can design and recoup on the S and SL, then everywhere else those improvements show up is all gravy. It's not like they're mediocre competitors in every segment. They're market leaders in every segment. With the profit margin to boot.

They can afford to have the car concierge show up and show you how to work the gadgets on your new S560. Or to fiddle around with interior packages and pricing for 15years on the CLS until they get it right.



maw

 

[Jlaa]

Just an observation -

Toyota, BMW, and Audi have superior operating margin over Daimler AG:

https://www.gurufocus.com/term/operatingmargin/TM/Operating%2BMargin/Toyota+Motor+Corp

 

[maw1124]

Yeah, I'm more looking at profit per car, like these kinds of studies...(https://www.motor1.com/news/261613/ferrari-highest-profit-per-car/) than I am Daimler as a whole (trucks) or BMW (motorcycles), or "operating margin" type analyses that have all sorts of stuff baked in, much of which will always favor Asian manufacturers (lower labor costs). But I take your point, that maybe Benz isn't passing along R&D costs down the brand as efficiently as I think, which may be why adjustable color LED makes so much sense for them.

maw

 

[alabbasi]

Interesting that VW and Audi are differentiated as they share the same platform and I assume much of the same R&D cost.

 

[Ntrepid]

Anybody notice anything unusual here?

View attachment 83280

Not sure if you can tell from this picture but here goes:

- No belts
- Turbo nested inside the manifold
- A blower motor to get the turbo going which eliminates turbo lag
- No starter motor
- A 48V motor


Robert

 

[Melville]

Anybody notice anything unusual here?

View attachment 83280




I haven't logged on to the PL in several years... I *almost* feel like heading over there and doing some serious trolling.


One of my last interactions over there was a live chat with the AMG brand people... I suggested that they were heading in the wrong direction, and their reply (paraphrased) was that I had no other option in the marketplace, so I should pound sand.

No plaque on the AMG engine with the signature of the person who “built” the engine.

 

[Stevester 500E]

A used but low mileage .036 Limited from Europe doesn't qualify as a Yurro Delivery?

....Yurro Delivery, I'd dismiss the idea altogether. But I want the YD experience so I can check it off my list.

Cheers,
Gerry