Front springs are collapsing on the E 420 need advice.

[Ascension]

Debating as to whether to go back with stock springs sportlines or the H&H springs but have to replace at the least the front springs on my car. The left front is collapsing and is likely what has given me fits with tire clearance.
What I need are the pro and cons and also shock recommendations. I'm ok on this car with gong back stock in many ways as this one is just a DD and long distance highway cruiser. I'm looking for a nice C 55 or AMG C 32 for a more performance oriented easy to maintain toy. The H&H set up looks cool but concerned about ride quality.
Know a number here have run the HH springs and looking at my options want to hear from folk who have experience with the different set ups.

 

[gerryvz]

If I were you, with a daily driver, I would stick with stock springs all around. In my opinion, H&R springs lower the car too much.

 

[gsxr]

I'm not sure what you mean by "collapsing". Unless a portion of the bottom coil broke off, these springs neither sag nor collapse. What is the distance from fender lip to wheel center, left and right, as shown below?

Would also need to know your wheel width, offset, and tire size to determine clearance issues.

 

[Gatorblue92]

I’ve got the H&R springs with Bilstein B8 struts on mine and I absolutely love the ride and look of the car. I know it’s not for everyone though. The ride is certainly firmer than stock but it’s not jarring or rough by any means. I do have 3 bump spring pads on mine so it’s as high as possible with the lowering springs.

 

[Ascension]

Drivers side clearance

Passenger side

I don't need a tape to see this. All bushings ect are in great shape the drivers front spring is just gone. Likely the original owner was shall we say portly and --. Car sits low in the left front. Wheels and tires are CLK's and 205x55x16 Conties

I'm not sure what you mean by "collapsing". Unless a portion of the bottom coil broke off, these springs neither sag nor collapse. What is the distance from fender lip to wheel center, left and right, as shown below?

Would also need to know your wheel width, offset, and tire size to determine clearance issues.

View attachment 119557

 

[Ascension]

I’ve got the H&R springs with Bilstein B8 struts on mine and I absolutely love the ride and look of the car. I know it’s not for everyone though. The ride is certainly firmer than stock but it’s not jarring or rough by any means. I do have 3 bump spring pads on mine so it’s as high as possible with the lowering springs.

Thanks for that.

 

[gsxr]

Yep, I can see it too, but I can't tell what the difference is left to right. The measurement will give exact data to work with.

What springs are in there now? Stock? Original spring pads?

Those wheels/tires should clear without issues, but if rubbing at the wide fender moulding behind the tire, add spacers like on the AMG spacer kits.

And inspect the bottom coil on both sides to see if one has snapped. Photo below of what to look for.

 

[Ascension]

If I were you, with a daily driver, I would stick with stock springs all around. In my opinion, H&R springs lower the car too much.

Trust you opinion Gerry thanks.

 

[Ascension]

Yep, I can see it too, but I can't tell what the difference is left to right. The measurement will give exact data to work with.

What springs are in there now? Stock? Original spring pads?

Those wheels/tires should clear without issues, but if rubbing at the wide fender moulding behind the tire, add spacers like on the AMG spacer kits.

And inspect the bottom coil on both sides to see if one has snapped. Photo below of what to look for.

View attachment 119576

View attachment 119577

Stock springs and likely shocks also. Looked before but will take another look and get back to you on that bottom coil. Has gotten slowly worse over the years I have had it it's to the point now I have to address this. Whats the story on the different spring pads?

 

[JC220]

I have had only one w124 before with aftermarket lowering springs and it too slowly sank at the front after a couple years. It was the springs themselves appeared to lose their tension or something strange so they were junked.

 

[gsxr]

I chased a front-end "sag" on a couple cars over the years, and found the culprit was the struts, not the springs. New struts can cause the ride height to be a full 1/2" (12mm) or more higher vs old/worn struts, with the same springs.

On one car I measured the ride height as it was with old/worn struts, installed new struts and saw the ride height increase significantly, then monitored the ride height over the next 5 years / 50kmi (approx). Sure enough, over time the front end slowly dropped. Installing new struts raised it back up. The old struts were not worn out, just reduced pressure, enough to change ride height. I now compensate for this when dialing in my target ride height with new struts and expect it to drop over time.

Interestingly, the rear shocks appear to have almost zero effect on ride height, even for shocks that are completely dead / no pressure.

I have yet to encounter 124 coil springs that were confirmed to be worn/sagged, not saying it can't happen, just that I've never seen it with OE springs. Can't comment on aftermarket stuff; I generally avoid them and use OE Sportline to go lower.

 

[Ascension]

I chased a front-end "sag" on a couple cars over the years, and found the culprit was the struts, not the springs. New struts can cause the ride height to be a full 1/2" (12mm) or more higher vs old/worn struts, with the same springs.

On one car I measured the ride height as it was with old/worn struts, installed new struts and saw the ride height increase significantly, then monitored the ride height over the next 5 years / 50kmi (approx). Sure enough, over time the front end slowly dropped. Installing new struts raised it back up. The old struts were not worn out, just reduced pressure, enough to change ride height. I now compensate for this when dialing in my target ride height with new struts and expect it to drop over time.

Interestingly, the rear shocks appear to have almost zero effect on ride height, even for shocks that are completely dead / no pressure.

I have yet to encounter 124 coil springs that were confirmed to be worn/sagged, not saying it can't happen, just that I've never seen it with OE springs. Can't comment on aftermarket stuff; I generally avoid them and use OE Sportline to go lower.

FCP has the Sachs 115-070 struts on close out right now at $77 a piece right now so--. I noticed after I did the front brakes the car seemed to sit level for a day or so then seemed to settle again lower to the left so??
UPDATE Pulled the trigger on the struts tonight from FCP along with a pair of Bosh distrubiter rotors and a new steering dampener plus a right tie rod end as what ever bounced under my car about a month ago at speed cut the boot and I didn't catch it at first so it's now contaminated. Lets see if this works if not will replace the front springs.

 

[Ascension]

Quick question on this as have never done struts and shocks on one of these. What all do I need have shocks and struts incoming from FCP but suspect i will also need new bump stops for the struts and the boots at the least. All they had were aftermarket so will make a run by my dealer for the bump stops and boots as well as a few more small things anything else I will need other than this?

 

[LWB250]

FCP has the Sachs 115-070 struts on close out right now at $77 a piece right now so--. I noticed after I did the front brakes the car seemed to sit level for a day or so then seemed to settle again lower to the left so??
UPDATE Pulled the trigger on the struts tonight from FCP along with a pair of Bosh distrubiter rotors and a new steering dampener plus a right tie rod end as what ever bounced under my car about a month ago at speed cut the boot and I didn't catch it at first so it's now contaminated. Lets see if this works if not will replace the front springs.

I seem to recall that the 115-070 were not correct for the .034, and that the 115-069 were the correct ones. We had a lengthy discussion about this in my owner's thread. I'll see if I can find it and post a link.

Found it - the discussion starts here.

 

[gsxr]

Get OE stop buffers and only OE accordion dust boots. Aftermarket won't last.

 

[Kyiv]

@Ascension, I have been DD'ing my 93 400E for 5,5+ years. I vote for all stock suspension. Also, as LWB250 mentioned, 115-069 is the correct - per Sachs's own parts catalog - for 400E/E420. FCP's catalog is wrong

 

[Kyiv]

Yep, I can see it too, but I can't tell what the difference is left to right. The measurement will give exact data to work with.

What springs are in there now? Stock? Original spring pads?

Those wheels/tires should clear without issues, but if rubbing at the wide fender moulding behind the tire, add spacers like on the AMG spacer kits.

And inspect the bottom coil on both sides to see if one has snapped. Photo below of what to look for.

View attachment 119576

View attachment 119577

What has happened to my 5 year old M-B front spring with zero rust:

 

[gsxr]

I can't confirm, but it kinda looked like 115-069 was softer/Comfort, and 115-070 was firmer/HD? The pinch bolt hole may need to be enlarged for installation on the 034 but that's easy enough.

I'd use either if you're not super picky on the exact damping rates.

I forgot about kiev's broken new spring - that's craztytown.

 

[Ascension]

The 115-69 was correct just confirmed it after running the VIN with FCP . Have the return label for the 70's in hand and a set of the correct struts incoming. Will drop by the local dealer for the boots and bump stops. Thanks guys for catching that as the 69 is set up to be a little stiffer to handle the additional weight of the M119 and would not have know it without you.

 

[LWB250]

Glad we were able to help out. @kiev was kind enough to point this out to me when I was positing the possibility of replacing shocks on my 95 E420, although I haven't done it and probably won't in the near future.

I've see the "tails" of MB front springs broken before as well, although in my case it was on an E420 S420 W140 model. It appears that if the paint or coating on the springs gets nicked that corrosion can start and after a while weaken the spine enough that it finally breaks.

 

[Ascension]

Question on this what about the Strut mounts? I never thought about them untill now and the rubber on both shows cracks so no question on replacing them. FCP has the Sachs that match the Struts for under $30 a pop or should I grab the OEM's at my dealer when I grab the boots and bump stops? Which stops? Turning into my driveway is where I have had real issues as it's a hard turn and uphill so really have to be careful now to come in easy to not compress the suspension and get into the drivers fender in particular when turning left. Thinking the 84mm medium might be the safest bet to limit the travel just a little.

 

[gsxr]

OE mounts are now made in Turkey and smell like aftermarket... I'd get Sachs (ZF/Lemforder) from FCP for the lifetime warranty.

EPC spes 83mm soft stop buffers for USA-spec 034. You can use whatever you want of course. And, you can add a spacer above the buffer (between buffer and strut mount) like AMG did to reduce travel for phat wheel installs. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Ascension]

OE mounts are now made in Turkey and smell like aftermarket... I'd get Sachs (ZF/Lemforder) from FCP for the lifetime warranty.

EPC spes 83mm soft stop buffers for USA-spec 034. You can use whatever you want of course. And, you can add a spacer above the buffer (between buffer and strut mount) like AMG did to reduce travel for phat wheel installs. Whatever floats your boat.

My Driveway is at an odd angle coming in from a left turn and have some damage to the drivers fender lip as a result from the 17's want to make sure I don't bottom out into the fender if I come in to fast running the CLk's or the 17's I also have. Will do on ordering the FCP Sachs mounts tonight.

 

[Ascension]

Well got a rude awakening on going to my stealership on the boots and 83mm soft strut buffers. First the cost for 2 factory strut buffers and 2 dust boots was $118.26. Secondly been over a week and the strut stops that supposedly would be here the next day and are now stuck in customs in Memphis. After market stops and boots would have been under $30 shipped and would have arrived to my door in 3 days from FCP. I won't do this again so who do I need to go to for real MB parts when FCP can't get what I need? PS my quote on cost for the replacing the hoses across the top of my M119 was over $400 from my dealer not just no but HELL NO!

 

[Kyiv]

First the cost for 2 factory strut buffers and 2 dust boots was $118.26.

Whomever priced those items is a horrible, vicious, mentally unhinged person. That's MSRP + 100% mark up on top.

Internet price is $43

 

[Ascension]

Whomever priced those items is a horrible, vicious, mentally unhinged person. That's MSRP + 100% mark up on top.

Internet price is $43

View attachment 120263

Tell me something I don't know. Was trying to get this done this week and the last parts I needed to do the job were the boots and stops. This will never happen again you can bet on that. Who do I need to be going to here guys cause sure won't be those guys.

 

[gsxr]

If you haven't paid, yet, don't. Show them what MSRP is and ask why you are getting >100% markup.

 

[LWB250]

If you haven't paid, yet, don't. Show them what MSRP is and ask why you are getting >100% markup.

What @gsxr said.

Stealerships will routinely take list plus "X" and then quote you a "discount", when in reality you're still paying 50% over list. It's a horrible, inexcusable business practice but it's common.

As @gsxr mentions, in a lot of cases when they're confronted with this behavior, they're quick to back down. If not, ask for any money back that you may have paid out and walk away. If they refuse, casually mention that your next call will be to MBUSA to complain about their business practices. Believe me, they don't like the mothership to get static about stuff like this.

The whole set of M119 breather hoses should be around $200-$250 depending on the configuration and discount. Anything more and you're getting hosed (no pun intended.)

Dan

 

[northNH]

I have made three appearances at my most-local MB dealer, 75 miles away, as necessary...
~4 years ago for a cracked windshield replacement for my CE;
~3 years ago to pick up a correctly keyed ignition tumbler for same;
~2 weeks ago for a cracked windshield replacement for my E420.

Each time, when gently chided for their parts pricing in this internet age, they were sympathetic, cheerily charged list price and suggested I have a latte or two before I left.

Windshield work first class, both times.

 

[Ascension]

If you haven't paid, yet, don't. Show them what MSRP is and ask why you are getting >100% markup.

Paid up front was promised the parts the next day over a week later still nothing. Never again will these guys see a dime from me. Not a huge sum of $ but the principal of this. Was trying to get this done before the holidays but--.

 

[Ascension]

What @gsxr said.

Stealerships will routinely take list plus "X" and then quote you a "discount", when in reality you're still paying 50% over list. It's a horrible, inexcusable business practice but it's common.

As @gsxr mentions, in a lot of cases when they're confronted with this behavior, they're quick to back down. If not, ask for any money back that you may have paid out and walk away. If they refuse, casually mention that your next call will be to MBUSA to complain about their business practices. Believe me, they don't like the mothership to get static about stuff like this.

The whole set of M119 breather hoses should be around $200-$250 depending on the configuration and discount. Anything more and you're getting hosed (no pun intended.)

Dan

Thanks Dan have never worked with a MB dealer before on parts but have seen this crap with Volvo dealers here before. Needed the parts to get this done so knew I overpaid but will never do this again. Still no stops BTW.

 

[Ascension]

Whomever priced those items is a horrible, vicious, mentally unhinged person. That's MSRP + 100% mark up on top.

Internet price is $43

View attachment 120263

Thanks for that . Didn't know about those guys looked them up and have them bookmarked now. Will come in handy!

 

[LWB250]

Thanks Dan have never worked with a MB dealer before on parts but have seen this crap with Volvo dealers here before. Needed the parts to get this done so knew I overpaid but will never do this again. Still no stops BTW.

I don't think it's unique to Mercedes dealers. My local Ford dealer did it, too. I called them out on it and they immediately "adjusted" my pricing. Never got the gouge from them again.

Dan

 

[Ascension]

Wow how did I miss my Strut mounts were in this bad shape?

 

[gerryvz]

Don’t cheap out and get aftermarket. Get the factory mounts via a discount online MB dealer.

 

[Ascension]

Don’t cheap out and get aftermarket. Get the factory mounts via a discount online MB dealer.

Its all from the ZF Lemforder group through FCP. The right Lemforder tie rod end ( boot is cut so is contaminated ) then got matching Sachs Shocks struts and mounts plus a new dampner all with their lifetime warranty. Used MB bumps and boots everything else looks to be in good shape. Had to run the VIN with a rep to get the correct set up as the on line catalog had her running the same set up as a E320. Will get it in next week when I can get access to a buddies shop and lift.

 

[LWB250]

Don’t cheap out and get aftermarket. Get the factory mounts via a discount online MB dealer.

Agreed. The factory mounts aren't that expensive relatively speaking. And this is a mission critical part you don't want failing on you, either.

Dan

 

[Ascension]

Got all Sachs parts for the Shocks Struts and Mounts through FCP . From what Iunderstand the MB mounts are made in Turkey now not Germany and aftermarket so just went with a matched set of the ZF stuff and got the FCP lifetime warranty. Visually they look identical to the original mounts. Went Lemforter on the tie rod end Sachs on the Struts Shocks, dampener and Mounts then used real OE boots and stops. Got them in ride height is up notable and the car feels much different now. Will give it a few more days get some photos and measurements but so far so good. Would guess the ride height is at least an inch and half up overall and maybe over 2 on the drivers side now from where it was.

 

[Kyiv]

You need an alignment now. What have you decided to do with the springs? (Sorry if I missed it)

 

[Ascension]

You need an alignment now. What have you decided to do with the springs? (Sorry if I missed it)

Already done on the alignment. Did not change springs but may have to as looks like the car is still listing to the left front. The struts mounts and shocks were all needed and it's better am giving it another few days to fully settle then will take measurements. Springs are all I Know of that are are left if it shows it is still running low on the left front unless there is something else I have missed. If I have to change them will just go back with OEM stockers but won't unless I have no choice. How bad is a front spring change on these? Had to farm out the other job as have no lift and doing that job in the driway on jack stands was not an option.

 

[Kyiv]

I'm the least DIY capable person on this forum, yet with an encouragement from colleagues here and this type (officially approved by 500eboard) of spring compressor I was able to replace them myself, in the driveway. Second time around I could probably do each side in 45 minutes, and only because it's a dangerous job, which one does want to perform in a controlled, non-rushed, diligent manner.

 

[Ascension]

Just realized I never updated on the front end work. We took a direct tornado hit at the house in March so has taken some time to get things back to normal.
After everything settled in have had no issues with it. Sits level now no clearance issues so on this front she is doing well with no spring change.