Future servicing of classic Mercedes

[Mercedes>BMW]

Hey Gents, since Mercedes Benz is not supporting these classics anymore with full parts quality and availability, what will the future hold for classic Mercedes Benz?

Let's say one wants to have a top of the line nice condition example of each of these classics: W124, W126, W140, R129 etc. Is it possible to have these in working order ready for a Sunday cruise at any time or will the disminishing parts quality keep that more of a dream?

Porsche seems to have good parts supply with great quality.. It seems maintaining those cars and even modding them is still a good way to go for a more fun driving experience. What about classic Mercedes that were built like best.

 

[doolar]

I think it will be perfectly possible to keep a classic Mercedes, but it will be more difficult and expensive, both in parts with the NLA and hourly rates since it’s already now few mechanics who can and will work on the classics.

I’m quite optimistic for the W124 due to the build quality of the cars, immense production numbers and the large enthusiastic following.

We’re seeing companies stepping up and offering repro parts, offering services on parts etc, and that’s entirely driven by production numbers and the demand for parts.

People who can’t or don’t want to wrench will have to pay a premium for sure to have work done.

My hope is that Mercedes will continue and even be better at keeping parts available, for them to backtrack to their old way of keeping parts availability.

If they’re even slightly interested in doing something for the environment, keeping older cars that already paid their largest cost to the planet rolling is a given and really low hanging fruit. I think it should be calculated into a manufacturer’s environmental CO2 footprint for example.

But that of course demands that they’re not buying into the narrative that if we only buy new correct things to replace what we already own we can save the planet. It is not possible to consume more to work our way out of rising CO2 emissions IMO.

 

[duuder]

mercedes has no interest anymore, they dont even service cars that are 15 years old anymore. we can keep our cars running, they just wont be mint... we may just have to do what 3rd world countries do and hack up old parts to keep them running

 

[doolar]

mercedes has no interest anymore, they dont even service cars that are 15 years old anymore. we can keep our cars running, they just wont be mint... we may just have to do what 3rd world countries do and hack up old parts to keep them running

But is that really fully true? If I brought my 500E to Mercedes, they won’t service it? Or if 15 years is the cutoff, not a R230 SL?

I’m not being cheeky, I have no idea since I’ve never serviced a Mercedes at the dealer, so I’m genuinely curious!

 

[TimL]

Doolar, in the U.S. it depends on the dealership, but it is not uncommon that they will reject working on cars that are older than 15 years. It doesn't fit their business model. According to the MB tech I work with MBs new cars are designed for "remove and replace" while old cars are about diagnosis and repair and for that there is no room anymore. It's about pumping through as many cars as they can with as little effort as possible. Waiting around for hard to get parts while lift space is occupied and lengthy, often difficult diagnosis are obstacles to those objectives and several dealers don't want anything to do with it anymore

 

[maw1124]

Doolar, in the U.S. it depends on the dealership, but it is not uncommon that they will reject working on cars that are older than 15 years. It doesn't fit their business model. According to the MB tech I work with MBs new cars are designed for "remove and replace" while old cars are about diagnosis and repair and for that there is no room anymore. It's about pumping through as many cars as they can with as little effort as possible. Waiting around for hard to get parts while lift space is occupied and lengthy, often difficult diagnosis are obstacles to those objectives and several dealers don't want anything to do with it anymore

@TimL they call them "stores" these days, which is indicative of how they want to operate.

The flip side of this (to the extent there is any), is they appreciate when you can come in and say change this part or that part. But "something is wrong, can you figure it out" requests aren't really what they're trying to do, as you know. Those turn into "throw parts at it" exercises anyway.

;-D

maw

 

[TimL]

@TimL they call them "stores" these days, which is indicative of how they want to operate.

The flip side of this (to the extent there is any), is they appreciate when you can come in and say change this part or that part. But "something is wrong, can you figure it out" requests aren't really what they're trying to do, as you know. Those turn into "throw parts at it" exercises anyway.

;-D

maw

Totally. I am lucky that I have had a dealership over the last 6 years which a) has a really capable tech for old cars and b) is willing to "put up" with having my car block lift space while they wait for parts. Who knows when the shoe drops and either a or b go away :-(

 

[duuder]

But is that really fully true? If I brought my 500E to Mercedes, they won’t service it? Or if 15 years is the cutoff, not a R230 SL?

I’m not being cheeky, I have no idea since I’ve never serviced a Mercedes at the dealer, so I’m genuinely curious!

sorry, i meant parts for cars that are only 15 years old. but that too, they're not called mechanics, they call themselves technicians now and correct you when you call them a mechanic

 

[Mercedes>BMW]

I have some indys by me who are well versed in these older cars but if the parts for a complex car like a W140 are not available new its going to be a big issue. Like if one wants to do a complete suspension refresh which supposedly made a W140 ride better than a new S-class.

 

[doolar]

sorry, i meant parts for cars that are only 15 years old. but that too, they're not called mechanics, they call themselves technicians now and correct you when you call them a mechanic

Haha it’s like the HR department at work who got renamed to “People and Culture” and get stingy every time I call them HR. Care to guess if I ever say anything else but HR?

 

[bgalakazam]

Not really surprised. Germany has such strict inspection laws that most people just lease their entire lives. If they do buy, they change vehicles often. Once these cars start failing inspection, they usually get "exported" to other EU countries with less stringent inspections. Stimulates their economy of always building cars and forcing people to buy/lease new ones. One of the automatic fails is rust on the frame. Good luck finding a 15+ year old car which was street parked (80+% of German cars) that doesn't have it. Most "oldtimers" as they call them, are US re-imports.

Also the Mercedes dealer here would not service my 1995. I would NOT MIND ONE BIT to do swap repairs, most industries are moving that way. The problem is, the parts that are swapped are no longer made. Case in point, a control valve I need for my 722.5 is faulty. I can only find a couple options, used probably, for ~$1,000. For that much or less, I can just get a used 722.5 transmission. I also can't find a 5th gear switch, once a $30 part, now nonexistent.

Rich people here drive Ford not Mercedes, go figure. My Explorer and F-150 are "fancy" here. F-150 not even sold here, and the only Explorer sold starts at 85K Euro... Lot of Teslas, too.

 

[gerryvz]

I think it will be perfectly possible to keep a classic Mercedes, but it will be more difficult and expensive, both in parts with the NLA and hourly rates since it’s already now few mechanics who can and will work on the classics.

I’m quite optimistic for the W124 due to the build quality of the cars, immense production numbers and the large enthusiastic following.

We’re seeing companies stepping up and offering repro parts, offering services on parts etc, and that’s entirely driven by production numbers and the demand for parts.

People who can’t or don’t want to wrench will have to pay a premium for sure to have work done.

My hope is that Mercedes will continue and even be better at keeping parts available, for them to backtrack to their old way of keeping parts availability.

If they’re even slightly interested in doing something for the environment, keeping older cars that already paid their largest cost to the planet rolling is a given and really low hanging fruit. I think it should be calculated into a manufacturer’s environmental CO2 footprint for example.

But that of course demands that they’re not buying into the narrative that if we only buy new correct things to replace what we already own we can save the planet. It is not possible to consume more to work our way out of rising CO2 emissions IMO.

I agree 100% with @dollar on his sentiment.

 

[doolar]

Not really surprised. Germany has such strict inspection laws that most people just lease their entire lives. If they do buy, they change vehicles often. Once these cars start failing inspection, they usually get "exported" to other EU countries with less stringent inspections. Stimulates their economy of always building cars and forcing people to buy/lease new ones. One of the automatic fails is rust on the frame. Good luck finding a 15+ year old car which was street parked (80+% of German cars) that doesn't have it. Most "oldtimers" as they call them, are US re-imports.

Also the Mercedes dealer here would not service my 1995. I would NOT MIND ONE BIT to do swap repairs, most industries are moving that way. The problem is, the parts that are swapped are no longer made. Case in point, a control valve I need for my 722.5 is faulty. I can only find a couple options, used probably, for ~$1,000. For that much or less, I can just get a used 722.5 transmission. I also can't find a 5th gear switch, once a $30 part, now nonexistent.

Rich people here drive Ford not Mercedes, go figure. My Explorer and F-150 are "fancy" here. F-150 not even sold here, and the only Explorer sold starts at 85K Euro... Lot of Teslas, too.

More or less the same in Sweden, everyone is leasing, including me for my wife’s car. It’s cheap and care free. Over a three year contract the total cost is lower than buying. And depreciation is not my problem. Only way to own a car cheaper is to buy used, but my wife wants (deservedly) a new car.

Me? I’m happy with my motorcycle (bought used) and the 500E. New cars very rarely interest me. The Lexus LC500 perhaps!

 

[jhodg5ck]

Just called to order the headrest adjustment reepair gear, got the last one in the world. Sweet, Thanks Mercedes!

 

[gsxr]

Just called to order the headrest adjustment reepair gear, got the last one in the world. Sweet, Thanks Mercedes!

Jono, do you mean these?

Both show NLA at MBCC.

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

 

[GRAEME JOHNSON]

I saw something online about Star Parts a lower grade of parts sold through US main dealers for cars over
5 years old.
Is this an option or do you have to have this stuff ?
At a dealer the labour is the killer saving a pound/ dollar for a second grade part seems daft
Graeme Johnson

 

[gsxr]

I saw something online about Star Parts a lower grade of parts sold through US main dealers for cars over
5 years old.
Is this an option or do you have to have this stuff ?

Star Parts was intended as a low-cost option for consumables like filters, brake pads/rotors, wipers, and spark plugs. See attached PDF.

I don't think this ever got much traction. @LWB250 - didn't you have some discussion about this with your local dealer parts guys?

 

[Benzy Boy]

Will they eventually fall under the Mercedes classics parts initiative they have for some even older vehicles?

 

[gerryvz]

Jono, do you mean these?

Both show NLA at MBCC.

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

View attachment 187312

I have a full set of these, factory, for the later chassis number cars. They can be for sale, if needed, but price is the usual NLA $5,000.

 

[alabbasi]

Mercedes Benz will have no interest in supporting older cars. I'm already finding that some parts for my W211 are NLA and this modelled ended production in 2009. There will still be a market for these cars and the parts that support these cars so my hope eventually is that companies will step in and fill the gap with good quality parts.

If anyone is familiar with Rolls Royce or Bentley cars, you can buy pretty much anything for them through two main suppliers (flying spares and introcar). They've even taken to performing their own R&D to make higher quality parts like head gaskets for the turbo models as the original head gasket which was first introduced in the 50's struggled to keep together on the turbo cars.

Right now, there are suppliers who are making parts for classic Mercedes Benz, but because of the relative low cost of these older models. they're still appealing to the budget buyer and U'll Replace Often if you use them.

It takes a long time for a Mercedes Benz to transition from an old car to a classic. For the above to happen, many more cars will need to come off the road.

 

[Mercedes>BMW]

The main thing to me is it seems they don't want to support old cars and do not care anymore about the brand or legacy. First lexus caused them to change their philosophy of building the best and when they were getting back to making decent cars Tesla came (although they truly aren't luxury). Now everyone wants a POS computer on wheels.

 

[alabbasi]

35 years ago, Mercedes Benz cars (and BMW for that matter) had about 5 different models in their line up and about 7 different engines that were shared across the lineup (i.e the same 6 cylinder engine was found in the E, S, SL , and G glass). The cars also had a 10-12 year shelf life which made it easy to provide parts support as they did not have to carry such a large variety of parts.

Today, Mercedes Benz probably has more models then the entire GM model lineup and restyles their cars every 3 or so years. In order for them to provide support to models after 5 years of production, they will need to carry a lot more parts then they did for 30 years in the past. Space is not getting cheaper and slow moving parts are being sacrificed to make room for faster moving parts. It's business.

 

[gsxr]

Mercedes Benz will have no interest in supporting older cars. I'm already finding that some parts for my W211 are NLA and this modelled ended production in 2009.

Pfffft. Five years ago I was running into NLA parts for the W211 chassis! I'm sure it's worse now...

 

[Jlaa]

35 years ago, Mercedes Benz cars (and BMW for that matter) had about 5 different models …

Today, Mercedes Benz probably has more models then the entire GM model lineup…

Unmanaged SKU proliferation can turn any company, regardless of huge top line revenue number, into a 5% (or worse) operating margin company.

 

[gsxr]

Unmanaged SKU proliferation can turn any company, regardless of huge top line revenue number, into a 5% (or worse) operating margin company.

Yep. I have first-hand experience with this phenomenon... it ain't pretty.

 

[Gatorblue92]

My only remaining Mercedes is my 77 240D and it’s been over 10 years since I even attempted to get any parts for it from the dealer. I think the last thing I bought was flex disks for the manual transmission conversion and I had to wait for shipment from Germany. There isn’t much left for the W123 and my local dealer wouldn’t even touch it when I needed an alignment.

 

[Mercedes>BMW]

Is that the conclusion then? Abandon these over engineered cars and sometimes needy cars! Does anyone have any work around for new parts that have good quality?

 

[gsxr]

Is that the conclusion then? Abandon these over engineered cars and sometimes needy cars! Does anyone have any work around for new parts that have good quality?

It's still possible to restore & maintain the 124, for now... it just will take more time and $$$ than it did 10-15 years ago when parts were more easily available. I'm not abandoning them yet. Besides, what I would I replace them with?

 

[bclifton]

Is that the conclusion then? Abandon these over engineered cars and sometimes needy cars! Does anyone have any work around for new parts that have good quality?

I'd say we are a very biased group - so we might not be the ones to give a fair and balanced answer But I personally don't see the W124 going away and have no intention of abandoning.

I can absolutely see folks that lack the ability (talent, tools, or time) to work on their own cars giving up and throwing in the towel. Like others have shared, many dealerships have policies about the age of the car. Mercedes-Benz of Chandler is local to me and the earliest they work on is 1990... Which is definitely generous given some of the experiences of others shared here. But still, I have a 1987 so I can't go to them.

Indy shops are a better way to go when you don't DIY. And there will always be high end restoration shops - including MB Classic Center in Irvine if you have an open wallet. But some Indy shops have already turned me down for specific repairs in the past- like replacing a head gasket, the evaporator, and heater core. Big jobs that suck. Sure, you could call around and find someone eventually, but that's extra work and you have to be dedicated to keeping the car on the road. These shops don't want a car taking up space waiting for parts for an unknown amount of time. There are so many old brittle parts you can break while doing a job too. Taking a dash off might break plastic bits that you won't find replacements for.

These situations are way too much trouble for regular people. Even enthusiasts that love the brand and/or love the platform... I bet there are times where we have all thought "Why am I doing this to myself?".

I still see a steady (albeit slow) stream of W124 come into the local junkyards. I'll continue to pull parts and help get them to folks. I'll do my part to help when people have questions or need a hand - because others have done that for me, providing help in times of need and basically helping sharing their knowledge of the platform.

Let's stay optimistic This board is definitely one of the best resources out there! And these are great cars after all

 

[mikeym]

I’ll keep driving my 95 e320 as long as I can. Between this car and a backup and limited commute, I’m set.
Wife get a new leased car of her choice every 3 years; keeps me free to focus on my 2 car fleet.

To your main point, yes it is getting more expensive but my main concern is lack of parts and that means these cars may not be fully restored to factory conditions and always have a punch list.

 

[TimL]

It's still possible to restore & maintain the 124, for now... it just will take more time and $$$ than it did 10-15 years ago when parts were more easily available. I'm not abandoning them yet. Besides, what I would I replace them with?

Dave, if YOU, with your mad technical skillzz are thinking that abandoning is even a remote possibility (“not abandoning them yet”), then shop customers like myself should be making their way to the exits now (a.k.a. panic in the disco)

 

[gsxr]

Dave, if YOU, with your mad technical skillzz are thinking that abandoning is even a remote possibility (“not abandoning them yet”), then shop customers like myself should be making their way to the exits now (a.k.a. panic in the disco)

I think we're still a decade or two away before it becomes too much of a PITA to repair/maintain these older cars. The unknown is, how much aftermarket support will appear in the future. For example, Kurth Classics offers some repair items that are otherwise difficult to obtain / replicate. If we get better aftermarket support with decent reproduction parts, that will be a big help. I figure in another 20-25 years I'll be too old to wrench anyway, and resigned to leasing some self-driving iPad on four wheels. Not there yet though!

 

[TimL]

Love that Monty Python scene

 

[chicky]

I'd say we are a very biased group - so we might not be the ones to give a fair and balanced answer But I personally don't see the W124 going away and have no intention of abandoning.

I can absolutely see folks that lack the ability (talent, tools, or time) to work on their own cars giving up and throwing in the towel. Like others have shared, many dealerships have policies about the age of the car. Mercedes-Benz of Chandler is local to me and the earliest they work on is 1990... Which is definitely generous given some of the experiences of others shared here. But still, I have a 1987 so I can't go to them.

Indy shops are a better way to go when you don't DIY. And there will always be high end restoration shops - including MB Classic Center in Irvine if you have an open wallet. But some Indy shops have already turned me down for specific repairs in the past- like replacing a head gasket, the evaporator, and heater core. Big jobs that suck. Sure, you could call around and find someone eventually, but that's extra work and you have to be dedicated to keeping the car on the road. These shops don't want a car taking up space waiting for parts for an unknown amount of time. There are so many old brittle parts you can break while doing a job too. Taking a dash off might break plastic bits that you won't find replacements for.

These situations are way too much trouble for regular people. Even enthusiasts that love the brand and/or love the platform... I bet there are times where we have all thought "Why am I doing this to myself?".

I still see a steady (albeit slow) stream of W124 come into the local junkyards. I'll continue to pull parts and help get them to folks. I'll do my part to help when people have questions or need a hand - because others have done that for me, providing help in times of need and basically helping sharing their knowledge of the platform.

Let's stay optimistic This board is definitely one of the best resources out there! And these are great cars after all

... just wanted to update you ... MB Classic Center is now located in Long Beach, Calif

 

[Rettopian]

Jono, do you mean these?

Both show NLA at MBCC.

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

View attachment 187312

Hi. Are these the parts that lift/drop the electric front headrests? Are they specific to the Recaro seats or would parts from any 124 series car with electric adjustment work? Asking for a friend…….

 

[gsxr]

Hi. Are these the parts that lift/drop the electric front headrests?

Yes.

Are they specific to the Recaro seats or would parts from any 124 series car with electric adjustment work? Asking for a friend…….

I believe they are the same on all 124 factory front seats with electric headrest adjustment.

 

[Rettopian]

Great. Thank you.

 

[nocfn]

I believe that I purchased my last new MB in 2019. Fantastic car, cabriolet (last model year not an SL) but the writing is on the wall for parts. I put the vin in the dealer catalogues and several parts are NLA, Luckily, when a valet broke a door light with his foot keeping the big heavy steel door from breaking his tibia ..... it was still available in the proper color for a cheap $11.85 - Looking around there was quite a bit of piddly things NLA. especially trim bits since that battery operated push.,......

 

[gerryvz]

I find that many color-specific interior items, and small trim pieces for my 2007 E63 AMG are NLA, and have been for some time. One small example - the small chrome-plastic "handle" piece that presses into the wood-veneer roll-top that slides over the center console/cupholder assembly. However, the plastic piece that anchors the handle to the underside of the wood/veneer roll-top, is available for like $5.00.

Same with small hardware and exterior fasteners, etc. Most M156 engine and W211 suspension pieces are definitely available.

Seems to be very similar to what we have seen with the W124 over the decades.

There are aftermarket options to many things, such as exhausts. The larger aftermarket for these cars (W211 and W212) will be helpful in the future as the parts supply dries up. The W124 never had the level of "performance" aftermarket support that I have seen with the W211/212 for things like exhausts and such.

 

[yao500e]

I find that many color-specific interior items, and small trim pieces for my 2007 E63 AMG are NLA, and have been for some time. One small example - the small chrome-plastic "handle" piece that presses into the wood-veneer roll-top that slides over the center console/cupholder assembly. However, the plastic piece that anchors the handle to the underside of the wood/veneer roll-top, is available for like $5.00.

Same with small hardware and exterior fasteners, etc. Most M156 engine and W211 suspension pieces are definitely available.

Seems to be very similar to what we have seen with the W124 over the decades.

There are aftermarket options to many things, such as exhausts. The larger aftermarket for these cars (W211 and W212) will be helpful in the future as the parts supply dries up. The W124 never had the level of "performance" aftermarket support that I have seen with the W211/212 for things like exhausts and such.

Wow! already some interior parts and pieces are no longer avaiable for w212 AMG???!!! that is insane. those cars to me are still modern.

 

[gerryvz]

Well, the W211 was last manufactured in 2009 (16 years ago), and the W212 was manufactured from March 2009 through January 2016, essentially 10 years ago......

 

[yao500e]

Well, the W211 was last manufactured in 2009 (16 years ago), and the W212 was manufactured from March 2009 through January 2016, essentially 10 years ago......

w212 is probably the best looking E class, i gotta be honest. love the w124, then w210...but w212 really is amazing styling.

10 years ago isnt that old. E63 is a beast.

 

[gerryvz]

I think the W211 is better looking than either the 210 or the 212. Not comparing any of these to the 124. The 212 is too squarish looking to me, and on the pre-facelift cars the treatment above the rear wheels looks too forced in terms of trying to dredge up something that MB had on the Pontons many years earlier.

The 211 was a pretty significant leap ahead of the 210 in terms of overall engineering, handling, electronics and more.

Under its skin, the 212 was a slightly evolved 211, but honestly the 212 wasn't the major leap forward that the 211 was over the 210, or the 124 was over the 123.

The 212 was a departure from earlier E-class models in terms of the interior controls. If you own a 211, and a 124, it's pretty easy to make the jump in terms of the controls and how they are placed (same with the 210). It's not as intuitive going from a 124 to a 212 in terms of the controls.

 

[gsxr]

I'm not a fan of the flat fender sides on the 212. Something about the shape just doesn't seem right to my eyes. The 211 looked pretty good. The 210 is more of an acquired taste.

However, as Gerry mentioned, the controls received some MAJOR changes with the 212. GSXR was not a fan. Read this rant for more details.

 

[195910]

w212 is probably the best looking E class, i gotta be honest. love the w124, then w210...but w212 really is amazing styling.

10 years ago isnt that old. E63 is a beast.

Only modern Benz I am keeping, I still have the ~800PS 2014 E63, nearly 9 years now. Couldn't stand the 211's over-rounded design. The 210 is a good car everywhere except in Europe.