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FOR SALE GROUP BUY: Mercedes 500E Badge

My circumstance is slightly different with the reservoir purchase (group buy) but met with the same lack of response albeit one year later. Robert supposedly sent me the item in Aug/020 with tracking number. Fast forward to Nov/2021 the US border finally reopened to non essential travels and I went to pick up my parcels only to discover Robert's was not one of them. The fact a year has elapsed the USPS tracking number is no longer useful. That is when I tried to contact Robert on Nov 19, I used his phone number, 500 Forum PM and email to no avail. To be fair the missing tank might not have anything to do with Robert but he has not reponded to assist me either. I have to let go of the $80 I spent.

While I did not partake in the group-buy of the badges I can relate to the collective angst of the participants. For me it would not be about the money as there are different levels of annoyances and judgements. At the end of the day though I have to circle back to my own self responsibility just as much as Robert is expected to be responsible. Not every choice I make work out but I made them. It's not an easy pill but it helps me to let go.
 
But he's my friend and I'm not going to pile on him on a public forum.

Regarding Robert being on the forum yesterday, we spoke for a few minutes yesterday and he told me he updated the first post to add tracking numbers for packages that he had just dropped off for shipping. I don't know why he didn't add a new post telling everyone that.
Thanks @Melville.

I was wondering the same thing and then you pointed out that there are a whole crap-ton of tracking numbers added to the first post! That's great!
 
Hi Everyone. Sorry for my complete lack of responsiveness. You deserved more and I did not provide it.

Note that I spent a considerable amount of time yesterday assembling and sending shipments. I updated the first post of this thread last night with tracking numbers for these shipments. I expect to complete the balance of what is left in the next day or so.

I'll be back to explain a little more later so you can understand the delay in this project.


Robert
 
Glad that you are still amongst the living and happy too that you are working on sending the badges out!

Life gets complicated and priorities shift. Look forward to getting my badge and also to learn what happened.

All the best,

Joe
 
I publicly committed that all requested refunds, no matter how much, will be paid for by me. That includes folks who ordered greater numbers of trunk badges, such as yourself. All reimbursements will come through PayPal (or check, if requested) from my bank account. There is no expiration date on this reimbursement offer.
@gerryvz Thank you, much appreciated, but you missed my point. I don't want your money for someone else's misstep, if any. I chose to ride this out, and since my earlier post it seems Robert @Ntrepid has resurfaced and updated the group buy sheet with shipping information. Glad he is OK, first of all, and secondly, that the orders are being fulfilled. As I posted last year somewhere on this thread, the GBs are a thankless job. Pitchforks can be put down now.

Thank you all.
 
So as I indicated earlier today, I owed all of you a more detailed update as to the progress (or lack thereof) on this Group Buy.

I would describe this effort in 3 acts:
  • Reproducing
  • Machining
  • Finishing
The first two phases paled in comparison with effort to the last stage of Finishing (with chrome and the pinstripe under 500E).

As you may have read earlier, the finishing act used the Hexavalent Chroming initially had me mark off with plating tape which would leave the area under the 500E without chrome. After speaking with the chromer, it was decided that this could produce corrosion issues later so the entire badge was chromed. This created challenges for the pinstriper to apply the black line which provide challenging as a paint which adheres to glass did not adhere at all. We attempted to bake the paint on with low heat to no avail. We then tried abrading the surface and muriatic acid solution which had minimal improvement than without.

So this left us with finding a pinstripe material which would adhere to area we have been trying to paint. The resource who helped identify the material which they had used successfully in the past for project like this struggled with finding the material as 3M had stopped manufacturing it in 2020. So a search ensued to find the exact size material because cutting it by (a) drag knife, (b) laser, or (c) die was impossible at the resolution we needed or, in the case of the die, would cost thousands of dollars more for a double sided solution.

So the process then centered on finding 3M Scotchcal in 70202 or 70212 on the secondary market. The first 50' roll was found and delivered on 15 January. The issue was 50' would not cover the 9" needed for each badge (7" plus an inch on each side for positioning) for the entire Group Buy. The good news is I was able to get another 40' roll on Thursday of last week to complete the rest of the badges.

Here is what the final product looks like (and yes, there is a real badge among these):

B6AE5A2A-240B-4DCC-8AF3-3530D0FBF509.jpeg

Each badge went through the process of cleaning with 70% isopropyl alcohol before first applying the custom cut double sided adhesive to affix the badge to the car followed by cleaning the area for the the pinstripe, applying and trimming to fit, and then passing it over a heat gun 10x to activate the adhesive. After that final check to ensure no blemishes in the chrome nor issues with the pinstripe, and the rear adhesive, the badge was then bagged in a bubble wrap sleeve for shipment.

So a word of caution (and hope) on these badges - the pinstripe should cure with age. I would recommend holding off as long as possible with handling the badge until it needs to go on to your car. I would exercise caution to not use a pressure washer directly on it. As a backup, I spoke to @captruff on Sunday about looking at another solution for a custom cut label through his neighbor that he has used for labels like what are put on the Silver Arrow brake calipers.

Lastly, there were some, as we call it in computer industry, "infant mortalities" with the finish which I am having re-addressed with the chromer. With that, in order to provide everyone with a badge that they ordered, I purposely shorted a few orders so that no one would be waiting to get their order but some would wait to have their order completed.

Once again, I am sorry that I have not been communicating which tried your patience. I would expect the same as someone in your shoes. All of you invested in this project and deserved more which I did not provide. I meant no harm and only wanted the best for this.


Robert

237A238C-25EF-43AE-9FED-0BB9E7D86BE7.jpeg04FB69B5-0D0B-4B09-9942-98EAD7EAB899.jpeg
 
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@Ntrepid, Thank you for the detailed explanation on the manufacturing process. It is more complex and involved than I had imagined.
While folks' patience were tested, please do not overly beat yourself up. No one else here had the chutzpah to assemble this "Kickstarter-esque Campaign to develop and test this manufacturing process". You have already put together a great and very successful previous group buy with the SLS reservoir tank.

Personally I have three takeaways from this:
  1. Group Buys - I think of these as an exercise in batch-process order fulfillment against a product which is already in the market and is shipping.

  2. Development Project - Personally I think this 500E badge project was a development project that was misnamed. Probably because we didn't know better. These are projects that contain significant amounts of research, development, prototyping, alpha product, first article inspection, rejection, etc ad-nauseum until one can come up with shippable product. Once this is all done, then logistics of order fulfillment can come into play. With any research project comes the need for regular status updates. While DSU Daily-Stand-Ups are probably not required (those of you that do these endless daily scrums know what I'm talking about), weeklies or monthly comms are probably a good idea.

  3. Embrace Misteps - One of the qualities that I really admire about this place, @gerryvz, is the culture that has been fostered here. Communication expectations for this project were not met, and were this my board (and it is not my board) I would encourage an environment of "fail early and fail often." If we learn from our mistakes and embrace them, then we can encourage an environment where people take (calculated) risks. It sounds like this project was an exceedingly technical project that required the involvement a couple (not just one) member of this place. It would be a shame if we, culturally, swing the pendulum the other way so much that members are afraid to take risks and take on big challenges like this again.

Just my opinion --- take it for what it is worth, which is nothing, because I don't have any dollars invested here, other than my time, which, according to my wife, is of negligible value! 🤣
 
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Robert, glad you are ok and thank you for the update! I appreciate all your efforts in this herculean endeavor! I will gladly buy extra badges of those that backed out and did not take Gerry's gracious refund offer.
 
So as I indicated earlier today, I owed all of you a more detailed update as to the progress (or lack thereof) on this Group Buy.

I would describe this effort in 3 acts:
  • Reproducing
  • Machining
  • Finishing
The first two phases paled in comparison with effort to the last stage of Finishing (with chrome and the pinstripe under 500E).

As you may have read earlier, the finishing act used the Hexavalent Chroming initially had me mark off with plating tape which would leave the area under the 500E without chrome. After speaking with the chromer, it was decided that this could produce corrosion issues later so the entire badge was chromed. This created challenges for the pinstriper to apply the black line which provide challenging as a paint which adheres to glass did not adhere at all. We attempted to bake the paint on with low heat to no avail. We then tried abrading the surface and muriatic acid solution which had minimal improvement than without.

So this left us with finding a pinstripe material which would adhere to area we have been trying to paint. The resource who helped identify the material which they had used successfully in the past for project like this struggled with finding the material as 3M had stopped manufacturing it in 2020. So a search ensued to find the exact size material because cutting it by (a) drag knife, (b) laser, or (c) die was impossible at the resolution we needed or, in the case of the die, would cost thousands of dollars more for a double sided solution.

So the process then centered on finding 3M Scotchcal in 70202 or 70212 on the secondary market. The first 50' roll was found and delivered on 15 January. The issue was 50' would not cover the 9" needed for each badge (7" plus an inch on each side for positioning) for the entire Group Buy. The good news is I was able to get another 40' roll on Thursday of last week to complete the rest of the badges.

Here is what the final product looks like (and yes, there is a real badge among these):

View attachment 142548

Each badge went through the process of cleaning with 70% isopropyl alcohol before first applying the custom cut double sided adhesive to affix the badge to the car followed by cleaning the area for the the pinstripe, applying and trimming to fit, and then passing it over a heat gun 10x to activate the adhesive. After that final check to ensure no blemishes in the chrome nor issues with the pinstripe, and the rear adhesive, the badge was then bagged in a bubble wrap sleeve for shipment.

So a word of caution (and hope) on these badges - the pinstripe should cure with age. I would recommend holding off as long as possible with handling the badge until it needs to go on to your car. I would exercise caution to not use a pressure washer directly on it. As a backup, I spoke to @captruff on Sunday about looking at another solution for a custom cut label through his neighbor that he has used for labels like what are put on the Silver Arrow brake calipers.

Lastly, there were some, as we call it in computer industry, "infant mortalities" with the finish which I am having re-addressed with the chromer. With that, in order to provide everyone with a badge that they ordered, I purposely shorted a few orders so that no one would be waiting to get their order but some would wait to have their order completed.

Once again, I am sorry that I have not been communicating which tried your patience. I would expect the same as someone in your shoes. All of you invested in this project and deserved more which I did not provide. I meant no harm and only wanted the best for this.


Robert

View attachment 142549View attachment 142550
hi Robert.Nice too hear your you again.I feel with you with .My Project has the maybe same issues.But my Respekt that you have pulled throug and now you are standing. straight here. When your somtimes going too Germany (East) i invate you to an Barbeque and a good Beer .
This Offer is naturally for all 500e Entusiast.
 
In reality, I feel significantly responsible for this situation, because I own and run the forum on which it happened. Thus, as a good-will measure for forum members, and so that the forum as an entity does not lose face or standing or trust in the eyes of members who have paid into this Group Buy, I am 100% willing, if people want to PM me, to reimburse anyone who feels they need immediate reimbursement.
Holy Moly, people, just let it go. You spent money on something that ended up falling through. So what? It shouldn’t be for the owner of this forum to reimburse all the folks who think they got burned. Just take your individual loss and move on instead of putting the financial burden on the guy running the forum we all have gotten invaluable information from.

I updated the first post of this thread last night with tracking numbers for these shipments. I expect to complete the balance of what is left in the next day or so.


Hello people, well well well! (+10 pts for those of you who know whose persona I am channelling....)

Since @Ntrepid has been shipping out badges, then may I impress upon us that if we receive our badges AND we receive a refund from @gerryvz that we return those funds to @gerryvz ASAP? That way Gerry is not paying for folks to have free badges. Thank you!

PS - I am hoping this place still remains 500Eboard and not 500EboardPropertyandCasualty or 500EboardREinsuranceCorp or something like that. 🤣
 
Note that I spent a considerable amount of time yesterday assembling and sending shipments. I updated the first post of this thread last night with tracking numbers for these shipments.
@Ntrepid when looking through the tracking numbers it appears some of these badges have not been posted yet.

Whilst you issued tracking numbers it seems you still need to post some of them just clarifying that. Have you posted all of them or when do you intend to do so?
 
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Since @Ntrepid has been shipping out badges, then may I impress upon us that if we receive our badges AND we receive a refund from @gerryvz that we return those funds to @gerryvz ASAP? That way Gerry is not paying for folks to have free badges. Thank you!
I would like to think that @Ntrepid immediately reconciled that with Gerry before aparantly posting off badges after months of radio silence.
 
@Ntrepid when looking through the tracking numbers it appears none of these badges have been posted yet.

Whilst you issued tracking numbers it seems you still need to post them just clarifying that. Have you posted them or when do you intend to do so?

I would like to think that @Ntrepid immediately reconciled that with Gerry before aparantly posting off badges after months of radio silence.
@JC220, although I am neither Gerry nor Ntrepid, may I ask as a favor to me - if any of us end up receiving both badges and refunds, then can we return the refund to Gerry? And, can we let sleeping dogs lie?

I know it has been very irritating to wait through 9 months of radio silence. That sucks for us. Aarrghh.

As well, sometimes we fail at things in life that we are not proud of. I can appreciate if Ntrepid is sufficiently embarrassed enough now to just fulfill what he set out to do and cut bait.

As well - our long suffering benefactor Gerry must be gnashing his teeth - he spends thousands of dollars per year allowing us to freely communicate and on top of that hundreds if not thousands of hours per year of his time ….. and now I think of how he must feel to be “put in the middle” and on top of that offering refunds for people who might even get badges….

Thank you for listening. Maybe we can continue on as virtual friends and not self-flagellate any more than needed.

All the best,
Jlaa


PS - I should mention that USPS tracking sucks. I posted something early yesterday afternoon and it did not show up in tracking results until today….. even though I watched the postal employee scan my package when I dropped it off......and to further point out USPS' cruddy system, the tracking result for the package that I dropped off now shows that I dropped it off FIVE HOURS EARLIER than when I ACTUALLY dropped it off. 🤦🏻‍♂️
 
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As far as I am concerned, I made my position clear, and it remains unchanged.

If someone wants a refund for their badge, I will continue to provide surety as I promised several days ago. I do not want, nor will I accept, any "reimbursement" from anyone. I chalk all of these costs up to the ongoing running costs of the forum. All payments to me will be returned.

Furthermore, I have decided to move on from this whole "badge" debacle and let you guys sort it out. While I will monitor the thread in the role of a forum moderator, there is nothing more for me to say on the matter, and I have no further investment or interest in it.

I am happy that movement has occurred with regard to this situation, and fundamentally that there seemingly were no health or other negative life issues that fomented it. I also sincerely hope that everyone gets exactly what they ordered or paid for, and that all are happy with the product in the end.

And as a veteran of managing several complex custom manufacturing Group Buys, and a fair number of simpler/more straightforward "discount procurement" Group Buys over the past 20 years, I hope for any future GBs, that lessons are learned as to the importance of providing regular status updates.

That is all.
 
I publicly committed that all requested refunds, no matter how much, will be paid for by me. That includes folks who ordered greater numbers of trunk badges, such as yourself. All reimbursements will come through PayPal (or check, if requested) from my bank account. There is no expiration date on this reimbursement offer.
Thank you Gerry, that is very kind and generous. I hope though that the order will be fulfilled as planned and echo the sentiments of other forum members who have placed orders with Robert .
 
Now where else can you get that kind of integrity nowadays?

Robert: Apologies for hinting at your demise. I'm sure you understand it was an indicator of my perceived trust in you.
 
@Ntrepid when looking through the tracking numbers it appears some of these badges have not been posted yet.

Whilst you issued tracking numbers it seems you still need to post some of them just clarifying that. Have you posted all of them or when do you intend to do so?
Good question. Since the USPS labels were created online, the Post Office required a signature on the Customs Labels versus my name in all caps. I made a separate trip to take the forms out in triplicate and sign above my name yesterday after work. Checking the tracking numbers it shows they are in transit.

I'll send the balance of the ones today.


Robert
 
My circumstance is slightly different with the reservoir purchase (group buy) but met with the same lack of response albeit one year later. Robert supposedly sent me the item in Aug/020 with tracking number. Fast forward to Nov/2021 the US border finally reopened to non essential travels and I went to pick up my parcels only to discover Robert's was not one of them. The fact a year has elapsed the USPS tracking number is no longer useful. That is when I tried to contact Robert on Nov 19, I used his phone number, 500 Forum PM and email to no avail. To be fair the missing tank might not have anything to do with Robert but he has not reponded to assist me either. I have to let go of the $80 I spent.

While I did not partake in the group-buy of the badges I can relate to the collective angst of the participants. For me it would not be about the money as there are different levels of annoyances and judgements. At the end of the day though I have to circle back to my own self responsibility just as much as Robert is expected to be responsible. Not every choice I make work out but I made them. It's not an easy pill but it helps me to let go.
Sorry that you did not receive your package. It seems that the tracking number provided did expire after a period of time. I feel bad about that and happy to help. I participated in the Group Buy for these reservoirs and have one myself. Happy to send it to you gratis as it is not right that you invested and, for some reason, never received it.


Robert
 
Hi Everyone. Sorry for my complete lack of responsiveness. You deserved more and I did not provide it...

Robert
There he is! What's up Big Guy! Glad to see you're still among us. Great work on the badges BTW. You should sell the rest to MB Classic Center. Only one shipping label necessary...

Cheers,

maw
 
Received my 2 badges today. Well worth the wait!!!! Robert, many thanks again for spearheading this group buy. The badges are better than the plastic OEM of which I have one NOS in its factory bag! The badges are a master piece! As stated earlier I will gladly buy some more badges if there are left overs for what ever reason.
 
Very shocked to come home and find this on my doorstep. No communication that it was on the way, but they arrived. Chrome finish is just beautiful. Can’t really say the same for the black stripe but completely understand and am 100% pleased.

Hold tight folks, yours are probably arriving soon as well…

Thank You Robert! @Ntrepid
 

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Got mine today and was very satisfied. I completely understand how these projects can sometimes become more complicated than originally expected. The pricing is well in line with the product and definitely worth the wait when you consider the relative affordability. Prior to this, the only alternative was NOS at a much higher price. If only we could do this for Euro headlamps!

Thank you for putting this together @Ntrepid !
 
Hello everyone!

Although I am not a member of this group purchase, I would like to express some thoughts.

The closure in this purchase is closely observed, and, to tell the truth, it has already been thought that this good business will not be crowned. I truly experienced this myself.

But, as I see it, everything went well, although not without a long wait.

I admire your patience! I admire the owner of this site. I am sincerely glad that I got into this friendly company! Thank you!

Sorry if I got into this topic with my thoughts!

Thanks!
 
I, too, received my 500E badge. Have a minor flaw in the chrome plating under the black line, but not very noticeable.

Congrats to Robert for a fine job coordinating this GB. This one was a challenge and the time line was longer than anyone expected for the final product, but doo-doo happens. Well done, Robert, to see this through. I would gladly buy a 2nd badge if available, Robert/Gerry.
 
Hello everyone,
For me the story is a little more complicated ...

My friend @ricsim ordered 2 badges and I ordered 1, but with only one package for all 3.

When Gerry offered to refund those who didn't want to wait anymore, I accepted and Gerry immediately refunded my badge.
In the meantime Robert tells us that the package is on its way and Gerry asks me when I receive the package to send him my badge or to give him back the amount he refunded me (which is quite normal).

The parcel arrived today but with only 2 badges inside ... which I will give to @ricsim and hope that Gerry will be able to get back the money he paid me from Robert.

Nothing was easy in this story :yayo:

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 
The parcel arrived today but with only 2 badges inside ... which I will give to @ricsim and hope that Gerry will be able to get back the money he paid me from Robert.
You may not have seen my earlier post that there were a few people who ordered multiple badges that would not get their entire order so as to not have people who got their multiple badge order while others continued to wait.

Please PM me on how to handle the fulfillment of the single badge remaining in your order.


Robert
 
You may not have seen my earlier post that there were a few people who ordered multiple badges that would not get their entire order so as to not have people who got their multiple badge order while others continued to wait.

Please PM me on how to handle the fulfillment of the single badge remaining in your order.


Robert
Forget about sending my badge, since Gerry reimbursed me for it in the meantime.

I'll give both to @ricsim.

But I'll let you make arrangements with Gerry to give him the money.

Marc
 
Keep the surety money I paid to you, @marco92. It's all good -- everybody who claimed the surety money got paid, people got their badges, and Gerry underwrites it :)

At this point in time I just consider it an additional sunk cost of operating this forum. :spend:
 
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