H&R vs Eibach lowering springs

[T0Pnotch55]

hi everyone, what would you recommend for 1995 E320 Wagon, H&R or eibach lowering springs

any other options are welcome

thank you.

 

[gsxr]

Pretty sure I've posted this before, but:

H&R (and Eibach, and any other aftermarket spring mfr) have a "one size fits most, sort of" fitment. his results in your Eibach/H&R springs being a guessing game as to what the ride height will be. If you buy them, make SURE they are specified for the wagon AND with SLS. The rear springs are completely different without SLS and for the lighter A/C/W124 chassis.

The factory Sportline springs vary based on engine and optional equipment, which is why there are a dozen different Sportline spring part numbers vs H&R's handful. The Sportline springs are specific to the exact combination of chassis, engine, and optional equipment. There are charts in the EPC (screenshots attached) which specify the spring pad to be used depending on the optional equipment and color code of the spring (red vs blue). T

The typical USA-spec .092 will end up around 70-75 "points" depending on options, which means using the tallest / #30 front spring (for example), with varying pad thickness depending on the color code. See attached screenshot. Rear spring will be mid-70's points, and #28 spring with varying pads. Good news is the #30 front spring is still available new (ignore the Backordered / Currently Unavailable BS shown on RevParts, this just means it has to come out of Germany). Bad news is the rear #28 spring may have gone NLA recently and will be more difficult to locate. Worse news, almost all Sportline rear springs are NLA now, and only a handful of other rear springs are available from MB. But, since we have the specs for these springs, they could be reproduced (same as the E60 springs).

If you use aftermarket springs, you'll end up with trial and error to get the ride height where you want it. As I've stated elsewhere, I don't recommend going much lower than 14.0" from wheel center to fender lip, on a standard 124 (non-E500E), for a street-driven car. The 036 measurements are slightly different due to the fender shape. On any normal-fender 124, I try to set ride height at 14.00-14.25" front & rear, with a full tank of fuel, and new front struts.

The front ride height will gradually drop over 3-5 years as new struts slowly lose pressure. Better to set the front higher initially and let it settle down, vs set it low and end up with it too low a few years later. Also, thick spring pads crush over time. I prefer a longer/taller spring with a thin pad, vs a shorter spring with thick pad, as the thin pad will remain the same. The thick pad will gradually let the ride height drop - not a lot, but a new vs used 4-pt front pad could translate into a 0.25" difference at the wheel-to-fender measurement.

 

[T0Pnotch55]

Pretty sure I've posted this before, but:

H&R (and Eibach, and any other aftermarket spring mfr) have a "one size fits most, sort of" fitment. his results in your Eibach/H&R springs being a guessing game as to what the ride height will be. If you buy them, make SURE they are specified for the wagon AND with SLS. The rear springs are completely different without SLS and for the lighter A/C/W124 chassis.

The factory Sportline springs vary based on engine and optional equipment, which is why there are a dozen different Sportline spring part numbers vs H&R's handful. The Sportline springs are specific to the exact combination of chassis, engine, and optional equipment. There are charts in the EPC (screenshots attached) which specify the spring pad to be used depending on the optional equipment and color code of the spring (red vs blue). T

The typical USA-spec .092 will end up around 70-75 "points" depending on options, which means using the tallest / #30 front spring (for example), with varying pad thickness depending on the color code. See attached screenshot. Rear spring will be mid-70's points, and #28 spring with varying pads. Good news is the #30 front spring is still available new (ignore the Backordered / Currently Unavailable BS shown on RevParts, this just means it has to come out of Germany). Bad news is the rear #28 spring may have gone NLA recently and will be more difficult to locate. Worse news, almost all Sportline rear springs are NLA now, and only a handful of other rear springs are available from MB. But, since we have the specs for these springs, they could be reproduced (same as the E60 springs).

If you use aftermarket springs, you'll end up with trial and error to get the ride height where you want it. As I've stated elsewhere, I don't recommend going much lower than 14.0" from wheel center to fender lip, on a standard 124 (non-E500E), for a street-driven car. The 036 measurements are slightly different due to the fender shape. On any normal-fender 124, I try to set ride height at 14.00-14.25" front & rear, with a full tank of fuel, and new front struts. The front ride height will gradually drop over 3-5 years as new struts slowly lose pressure. Better to set the front higher and let it settle down, vs set it low and end up with it too low a few years later.




View attachment 233641 View attachment 233642

hi Dave, what about E320 sportline springs, are those still available?

 

[T0Pnotch55]

Pretty sure I've posted this before, but:

H&R (and Eibach, and any other aftermarket spring mfr) have a "one size fits most, sort of" fitment. his results in your Eibach/H&R springs being a guessing game as to what the ride height will be. If you buy them, make SURE they are specified for the wagon AND with SLS. The rear springs are completely different without SLS and for the lighter A/C/W124 chassis.

The factory Sportline springs vary based on engine and optional equipment, which is why there are a dozen different Sportline spring part numbers vs H&R's handful. The Sportline springs are specific to the exact combination of chassis, engine, and optional equipment. There are charts in the EPC (screenshots attached) which specify the spring pad to be used depending on the optional equipment and color code of the spring (red vs blue). T

The typical USA-spec .092 will end up around 70-75 "points" depending on options, which means using the tallest / #30 front spring (for example), with varying pad thickness depending on the color code. See attached screenshot. Rear spring will be mid-70's points, and #28 spring with varying pads. Good news is the #30 front spring is still available new (ignore the Backordered / Currently Unavailable BS shown on RevParts, this just means it has to come out of Germany). Bad news is the rear #28 spring may have gone NLA recently and will be more difficult to locate. Worse news, almost all Sportline rear springs are NLA now, and only a handful of other rear springs are available from MB. But, since we have the specs for these springs, they could be reproduced (same as the E60 springs).

If you use aftermarket springs, you'll end up with trial and error to get the ride height where you want it. As I've stated elsewhere, I don't recommend going much lower than 14.0" from wheel center to fender lip, on a standard 124 (non-E500E), for a street-driven car. The 036 measurements are slightly different due to the fender shape. On any normal-fender 124, I try to set ride height at 14.00-14.25" front & rear, with a full tank of fuel, and new front struts. The front ride height will gradually drop over 3-5 years as new struts slowly lose pressure. Better to set the front higher and let it settle down, vs set it low and end up with it too low a few years later.




View attachment 233641 View attachment 233642

how do i find the chassis code to see which springs will work for me, this chart is a bit confusing for me

 

[gsxr]

hi Dave, what about E320 sportline springs, are those still available?

Only the front springs are still available. Rears are NLA now.

how do i find the chassis code to see which springs will work for me, this chart is a bit confusing for me

Use LastVIN to decode a USA-spec VIN into the chassis code. Late S124 wagons will be 124.092 for example.

 

[T0Pnotch55]

Only the front springs are still available. Rears are NLA now.

Use LastVIN to decode a USA-spec VIN into the chassis code. Late S124 wagons will be 124.092 for example.

thank you very much

 

[T0Pnotch55]

威昶

www.sf-racing.com

anyone know about this guys?
any experience?


I saw a vide on YouTube someone installed springs and shocks from them and the springs were adjustable

any thoughts?

 

[sheward]

The W124 chassis is not structurally sound for a coilover setup. Stick with the factory suspension.

 

[T0Pnotch55]

The W124 chassis is not structurally sound for a coilover setup. Stick with the factory suspension.

if you saw the video its not a coil over setup, its same as original but the springs have adjustability

 

[sheward]

I did not catch that. Looks interesting.

See post no. 2.

 

[gsxr]

anyone know about this guys?
any experience?
I saw a vide on YouTube someone installed springs and shocks from them and the springs were adjustable
any thoughts?

It's an interesting design that seems to primarily offer adjustable ride height along with limited damping adjustment (either compression OR rebound, not both, and not specified... not cool.) The kit appears to have a 1-size-fits-all approach which I'm not crazy about, seems they provide the identical springs for all 124 chassis, regardless of weight. We have no idea what chassis (if any) this kit was optimized for. Overall it will be a gamble as to how it works out. You get to be the guinea pig.

Questions:

1) How much is this kit?

2) What are you trying to do exactly - meaning, why do you NOT want to use Sportline springs and commonly available dampers (Bilstein Sports / KONI)?

威昶

www.sf-racing.com

 

[T0Pnotch55]

It's an interesting design that seems to primarily offer adjustable ride height along with limited damping adjustment (either compression OR rebound, not both, and not specified... not cool.) The kit appears to have a 1-size-fits-all approach which I'm not crazy about, seems they provide the identical springs for all 124 chassis, regardless of weight. We have no idea what chassis (if any) this kit was optimized for. Overall it will be a gamble as to how it works out. You get to be the guinea pig.

Questions:

1) How much is this kit?

2) What are you trying to do exactly - meaning, why do you NOT want to use Sportline springs and commonly available dampers (Bilstein Sports / KONI)?

威昶

www.sf-racing.com

View attachment 236156 View attachment 236158

i don’t know how much is it, i emailed them asking details

it looks like it could solve the problem with the aftermarket springs, like h&r makes the springs one size fits all and its a hit or miss, here you have the option to properly set the ride height

i don’t know if they make this for cars with SLS, waiting on a response from them

the sportline springs you said only front are available, rear springs NLA

i was just curious to see any other options on this

 

[gsxr]

The adjustable ride height solves one problem - ride height. However, it still provides a single, unknown spring rate that may or may not be ideal for the chassis in question. A 260E won't need the same spring rate as a 400E or a cabrio, for example.

Yeah - the rear Sportline springs went NLA recently, which is a real bummer. We have enough data to have them reproduced, although I don't know what the cost might be.

 

[T0Pnotch55]

The adjustable ride height solves one problem - ride height. However, it still provides a single, unknown spring rate that may or may not be ideal for the chassis in question. A 260E won't need the same spring rate as a 400E or a cabrio, for example.

Yeah - the rear Sportline springs went NLA recently, which is a real bummer. We have enough data to have them reproduced, although I don't know what the cost might be.

i gues the adjustability on the springs would work if the spring rate will also be made for the corespondent car like the inline 6 and V8

what are the details on the rear sportline spring?

 

[gsxr]

what are the details on the rear sportline spring?

MB 124 spring specs (free length, number of coils, and wire diameter) are in this PDF document.

The one hassle for reproducing them is the top coil which is flattened and squished against the next coil.

 

[T0Pnotch55]

Only the front springs are still available. Rears are NLA now.

Use LastVIN to decode a USA-spec VIN into the chassis code. Late S124 wagons will be 124.092 for example.

hi Dave, can you help me a little bit, you said to use the lastVIN to decode the chassis code, having a bit of a trouble to do that
this is the 1995 E320 Wagon VIN: wdbea92e0sf306338. I couldn't see any numbers from my vin to match on the document, what am I doing wrong?

 

[gsxr]

hi Dave, can you help me a little bit, you said to use the lastVIN to decode the chassis code, having a bit of a trouble to do that
this is the 1995 E320 Wagon VIN: wdbea92e0sf306338. I couldn't see any numbers from my vin to match on the document, what am I doing wrong?

Chassis code for that VIN is 124.092, see screenshot below, you want the 6 digits of the FIN after "WDB".

Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN

Datacard for 1995 Mercedes-Benz E320T (124.092) - WDBEA92E0SF306338

www.lastvin.com

BTW - the rear Sportline #28 springs do appear NLA, but the #23 are still available. MBCC shows they are "reproduced", link. $220 MSRP, ~$160 discount. These are a smidge on the low side for a stock Sportline wagon but might still work ok with the thickest spring pad. You'd have to call a dealer to order, they show as "backorder / unavailable" from most online dealers.

 

[T0Pnotch55]

Chassis code for that VIN is 124.092, see screenshot below, you want the 6 digits of the FIN after "WDB".

Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN

Datacard for 1995 Mercedes-Benz E320T (124.092) - WDBEA92E0SF306338

www.lastvin.com

BTW - the rear Sportline #28 springs do appear NLA, but the #23 are still available. MBCC shows they are "reproduced", link. $220 MSRP, ~$160 discount. These are a smidge on the low side for a stock Sportline wagon but might still work ok with the thickest spring pad. You'd have to call a dealer to order, they show as "backorder / unavailable" from most online dealers.

View attachment 236198

thank you very much Dave

I am looking at the charts that you shared and I hope I got it right on the front springs, is this the part number for the front sport line springs #1243212904, did I got it right?

 

[T0Pnotch55]

Chassis code for that VIN is 124.092, see screenshot below, you want the 6 digits of the FIN after "WDB".

Mercedes VIN Decoder | Decode Your Mercedes-Benz VIN

Datacard for 1995 Mercedes-Benz E320T (124.092) - WDBEA92E0SF306338

www.lastvin.com

BTW - the rear Sportline #28 springs do appear NLA, but the #23 are still available. MBCC shows they are "reproduced", link. $220 MSRP, ~$160 discount. These are a smidge on the low side for a stock Sportline wagon but might still work ok with the thickest spring pad. You'd have to call a dealer to order, they show as "backorder / unavailable" from most online dealers.

View attachment 236198

what do you think about combining the front sport liner and maybe h&r or eibach rear springs?

 

[gsxr]

thank you very much Dave

I am looking at the charts that you shared and I hope I got it right on the front springs, is this the part number for the front sport line springs #1243212904, did I got it right?

From what I can tell, it looks like a USA-spec .092 wagon will be right around 67-68 points up front, which is juuuust over the #29 springs with a thick pad and would normally use a #30 spring with a thin pad. Ideally you'd get a #30 spring, but if NLA, the #29 with thick pad should be fine. I know the #29 are still available, I just got a pair last week.

Remember this also depends on your preference for ride height. If you want a bit lower than factory Sportline, the #29 is probably what you want anyway.

 

[gsxr]

what do you think about combining the front sport liner and maybe h&r or eibach rear springs?

Depending on the specs for the aftermarket springs, that may be fine, however they usually only sell them in a set of 4 springs.

 

[T0Pnotch55]

From what I can tell, it looks like a USA-spec .092 wagon will be right around 67-68 points up front, which is juuuust over the #29 springs with a thick pad and would normally use a #30 spring with a thin pad. Ideally you'd get a #30 spring, but if NLA, the #29 with thick pad should be fine. I know the #29 are still available, I just got a pair last week.

Remember this also depends on your preference for ride height. If you want a bit lower than factory Sportline, the #29 is probably what you want anyway.

thank you very much Dave

 

[T0Pnotch55]

Depending on the specs for the aftermarket springs, that may be fine, however they usually only sell them in a set of 4 springs.

hi Dave, I found the 124-321-29-04 for a 102.05$ and the 124-324-23-04 for a 165$ from discount dealer, are these good prices? both have to be ordered from Germany, immediately still looking but so far these are the lowest I could find

 

[T0Pnotch55]

MB Parts Giant | Genuine Mercedes-Benz Parts Online Store

MBPartsGiant - Your hub for genuine Mercedes-Benz parts. Experience swift shipping and exclusive discounts. Visit MBPartsGiant for OEM parts today!

www.mbpartsgiant.com

found these guys have the lowest price so far

 

[gsxr]

hi Dave, I found the 124-321-29-04 for a 102.05$ and the 124-324-23-04 for a 165$ from discount dealer, are these good prices? both have to be ordered from Germany, immediately still looking but so far these are the lowest I could find

Yes, those prices are pretty good, as long as S&H isn't crazy. There are some dealers with lower pricing but often their S&H is very high.

 

[gsxr]

MB Parts Giant | Genuine Mercedes-Benz Parts Online Store

MBPartsGiant - Your hub for genuine Mercedes-Benz parts. Experience swift shipping and exclusive discounts. Visit MBPartsGiant for OEM parts today!

www.mbpartsgiant.com

found these guys have the lowest price so far

I'd avoid them like the plague. Search the address on Google and read the reviews. They are terrible. It's a 3rd-party drop-shipper... prepare for lots of problems if you order anything from them.

 

[T0Pnotch55]

I'd avoid them like the plague. Search the address on Google and read the reviews. They are terrible. It's a 3rd-party drop-shipper... prepare for lots of problems if you order anything from them.

so far everything i ordered before from them didn’t had any issues

 

[gsxr]

so far everything i ordered before from them dihad any issues

Really! I'm surprised. Are you only buying OE / dealer items from them? Or also aftermarket stuff?

 

[T0Pnotch55]

Really! I'm surprised. Are you only buying OE / dealer items from them? Or also aftermarket stuff?

im buying OE stuff, they had very low prices , i bought sway bar bushings from them because of the low price, but im buying OE stuff

 

[T0Pnotch55]

Really! I'm surprised. Are you only buying OE / dealer items from them? Or also aftermarket stuff?

i ordered some stuff from them ill let you know how it goes

 

[T0Pnotch55]

@gsxr

Dave do you know by any chance if this spring shim is available at all or NLA

#201-321-12-84 this is the 23mm

 

[gsxr]

Dave do you know by any chance if this spring shim is available at all or NLA

#201-321-12-84 this is the 23mm

It appears the 4-pt pad 201-321-12-84 has been replaced with version 201-321-12-84-64, that should be available, but may need to come from Germany? There are aftermarket brands also available. All the RevParts sites show Backordered / Currently Unavailable so you'll need to contact a live person at a dealership.

MBCC:

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

 

[T0Pnotch55]

It appears the 4-pt pad 201-321-12-84 has been replaced with version 201-321-12-84-64, that should be available, but may need to come from Germany? There are aftermarket brands also available. All the RevParts sites show Backordered / Currently Unavailable so you'll need to contact a live person at a dealership.

MBCC:

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search.

Browse through the Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search to see the availability of parts, promotional and newly manufactured parts and order them online (only in Germany).

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

View attachment 236279

thank you very much Dave,

so far the MB dealer from scotsdale AZ has been my go to, very nice to work with and very good prices and the online page seems to be always updated, and they dont mind ordering from germany

 

[T0Pnotch55]

https://www.springrates.com/search?categories=Coilovers&page=1&q=E320+1995

 

[gsxr]

https://www.springrates.com/search?categories=Coilovers&page=1&q=E320+1995

<rant>

These are not "coilovers". It's getting really old seeing wrong terminology applied to aftermarket kits, probably because the kids these days think "coilover" sounds cool and they want it. What's being sold above (and, by SF Racing in Taiwan) are ADJUSTABLE SPRINGS with separate, custom dampers. The spring design includes a threaded collar/plate assembly which replaces the stock rubber pad, and that combination allows ride height adjustment with the included spanner.

A true "coilover" integrates both the spring AND damper into a single unit, where the coil sits "over" the damper. This design is a Very Bad Idea for any 124/129/201 chassis because the suspension was never designed to support the full weight of the vehicle on the strut or shock tower upper mounts. Thankfully there are very, very few true coilover setups offered for the 124.

It's still annoying to see misleading advertising / marketing. In this case, the MTS Technik don't even offer adjustable dampers, which is additional misinformation, apparently an error on their PDP (Product Detail Page). The "standard features" list includes "Adjustable Shock Absorbers", yet the specifications clearly state damping is "Non-Adjustable".

Also annoying is that none of these places show photos of their exact product actually installed on a 124 chassis. Have they even tested them on a real car?

 

[gsxr]

so far the MB dealer from scotsdale AZ has been my go to, very nice to work with and very good prices and the online page seems to be always updated, and they dont mind ordering from germany

That's awesome you found a good dealer to buy from. I had been using MB Laredo for the past few years due to the best prices with shipping, but their service has been declining, and they recently added a flat 3% "handling charge".

MB Portland has even better pricing but their S&H is quite high if you don't live on the west coast.

 

[T0Pnotch55]

<rant>

These are not "coilovers". It's getting really old seeing wrong terminology applied to aftermarket kits, probably because the kids these days think "coilover" sounds cool and they want it. What's being sold above (and, by SF Racing in Taiwan) are ADJUSTABLE SPRINGS with separate, custom dampers. The spring design includes a threaded collar/plate assembly which replaces the stock rubber pad, and that combination allows ride height adjustment with the included spanner.

A true "coilover" integrates both the spring AND damper into a single unit, where the coil sits "over" the damper. This design is a Very Bad Idea for any 124/129/201 chassis because the suspension was never designed to support the full weight of the vehicle on the strut or shock tower upper mounts. Thankfully there are very, very few true coilover setups offered for the 124.

It's still annoying to see misleading advertising / marketing. In this case, the MTS Technik don't even offer adjustable dampers, which is additional misinformation, apparently an error on their PDP (Product Detail Page). The "standard features" list includes "Adjustable Shock Absorbers", yet the specifications clearly state damping is "Non-Adjustable".

Also annoying is that none of these places show photos of their exact product actually installed on a 124 chassis. Have they even tested them on a real car?




View attachment 236287

yes its a little bit all over the place with the product description, i was hoping on those guys from youtube video do tell how is the ride but they never followed up with another video, i guess if someone will buy a set and do some testing, also they dont have a kit for Wagon, and they looks like are using Eibach springs, wich makes me think , probably the only good part from the kit is the custom damper thing for adjustability, i feel like you can use that thing on a regular spring

whats your opinion on price?

 

[gsxr]

MTS Technik price at $850 isn't terrible, but not a great deal either. It's on par with buying a set of standard aftermarket springs and sport dampers. ALl you are getting is finer adjustability with ride height, plus no-name dampers of questionable quality.

SF-Racing, still don't know the price, but the same thing kinda applies. Their kit at least has single-adjustable dampers, likely adjustable rebound only, like KONI.

Both of these kits have a single spring rate, which may or may not be ideal for your particular car. This is why I prefer the factory Sportline setup where possible, MB engineers already did the nerdy stuff to figure out what worked well for a specific 124 chassis.