High performance & what max rpm?

[m119volvo]

Hi, do anyone know what the max engine rpm is without dry sump? a little scared for oil pump cavitation.
Today i have redline sitting at 7200rpm...

Some information
m119.980 4.2l open deck.
11:1 compression.
1300cc injectors.
e85 fuel.
Turbo, Holset hx52 pro inducer 71mm exducer 72mm.
polished crank, max bearing play by oe means.
oe pistons, oe rods, oe head gaskets, even got the used oe bolts...
camshafts from m119.960 5.0
double valve springs from the same 960(Opel valve locks)
the light 64g tappers

higher oil pressure by adding pressure to the relive spring.
valvoline vr1 10w60 + extra zink(brake in additive)

625whp 760nm
Then i got to much back pressure, ended up at 1.2 bar of boost. (17psi).

I am going to change turbine axel for a 77mm.
and if its possible i will ramp up boost and run at around 800nm for as long as the engine will make power.

 

[gsxr]

Wow! That's amazing power output from a 4.2L engine.

With peak power just before 6000rpm, why do you want to rev to 7000rpm or beyond? I'd leave it alone and stay under 7000.

What chassis is this engine in (124, 140, etc)? Will it be used for road racing, drag racing, drifting, etc?

 

[gsxr]

Oh, btw, welcome to the forum!

 

[Bogeyman]

Is it in a Volvo??

 

[m119volvo]

@gsxr thanks for the welcome, been here looking around for a while but this is my first post.

peak power at 6000, we could not put on more boost because of the back pressure.
because of the ratio in the gearbox 550hp can give more to the ground at 3th gear than 600hp at 4th gear.

This added dyno graph is from last year with the boost sitting flat at 0.8bar.
This year we started at 0.6 bar then started putting on more boost from 5000rpm but we could not go further on boost / rpm due to the back pressure was rising.

I am a little afraid of cracking the cylinders due to high cylinder pressure in the open deck. at around 800nm or slightly below at the hub feels just right. if i can have a bit more power up high by adding boost that would give me a lot more hp. I am not afraid of the boost, just afraid of the back pressure and the risk of oil pump cavitation .

currently running a 722.6 i built with more frictions, controller for this is ofgear.
I ran a 220 cdi converter, now it away for higher stall, waiting to get it back for testing.

at the dragstrip last year i riped the splines of the axles in the rear end, so i built a Ford 8.8 with 33 splines this winter, and put a 4.1 final drive in it.

I have tested it a little at the local drag strip last year running 560whp when the gearbox could not hold for more power and it was a lot of fun!
I am going to drive a lite of everything, Drag, drift and street!

im not quite sure if i can tell what chassie it sits in
But @Bogeyman have a clue

 

[jhodg5ck]

8k and you need a dry sump on the 5L.

Good luck, awesome work!

 

[gsxr]

peak power at 6000, we could not put on more boost because of the back pressure.

More boost is unlikely to change the shape of the power curve. Yes, more boost will make more power (assuming backpressure is ok) but the peak power will probably remain around the 6000rpm ballpark. Pretty sure you'd need modified camshafts and/or cam timing to shift the peak power higher than 6000rpm. Unless you have a specific need for the higher RPM (i.e., road racing, trying to avoid unnecessary gear changes for certain corners) it may not be worth chasing this, nor trying to rev it beyond 7k. High RPM is more for normally aspirated builds. I'd be ecstatic with 600hp at the wheels at 5900rpm, which should be good for high 10's in the quarter mile in a W124 chassis.

This added dyno graph is from last year with the boost sitting flat at 0.8bar. This year we started at 0.6 bar then started putting on more boost from 5000rpm but we could not go further on boost / rpm due to the back pressure was rising.

What ECU / boost controller are you using? Is the wastegate controlled electronically?

I am a little afraid of cracking the cylinders due to high cylinder pressure in the open deck. at around 800nm or slightly below at the hub feels just right. if i can have a bit more power up high by adding boost that would give me a lot more hp. I am not afraid of the boost, just afraid of the back pressure and the risk of oil pump cavitation .

Yeah, I'd be a little concerned as well. Just curious, why did you choose an open-deck block? I'm curious how a 5.0L engine would perform with similar boost. Staying below 7k avoids issues with oil pressure and valve float and all that jazz. As mentioned previously, since you can make power by adding boost, there's not as much need for the higher revs.

currently running a 722.6 i built with more frictions, controller for this is ofgear.
I ran a 220 cdi converter, now it away for higher stall, waiting to get it back for testing.

Nice! What is the advantage of the 220CDI converter, instead of the M119 converter? Also, how high will the new stall speed be?

at the dragstrip last year i riped the splines of the axles in the rear end, so i built a Ford 8.8 with 33 splines this winter, and put a 4.1 final drive in it.

Twisted the axle shafts and ripped the splines... that is awesome!

I have tested it a little at the local drag strip last year running 560whp when the gearbox could not hold for more power and it was a lot of fun!
I am going to drive a lite of everything, Drag, drift and street!

Very cool! Have any dragstrip timeslips yet? What is the rear axle ratio?

im not quite sure if i can tell what chassie it sits in
But @Bogeyman have a clue

LOL, now I see... you should add a 3-pointed Star on the hood of the brick!

 

[m119volvo]

More boost is unlikely to change the shape of the power curve. Yes, more boost will make more power (assuming backpressure is ok) but the peak power will probably remain around the 6000rpm ballpark. Pretty sure you'd need modified camshafts and/or cam timing to shift the peak power higher than 6000rpm. Unless you have a specific need for the higher RPM (i.e., road racing, trying to avoid unnecessary gear changes for certain corners) it may not be worth chasing this, nor trying to rev it beyond 7k. High RPM is more for normally aspirated builds. I'd be ecstatic with 600hp at the wheels at 5900rpm, which should be good for high 10's in the quarter mile in a W124 chassis.

yeah, can i get 800nms at 6500rpm that would be equal to 730hp if my Maths not wrong. going higher on torque will crack the cylinders are i afraid. torque Translates to cylinder pressure. thats why i add more boost to keep the torque longer.
yes the shape would stay the same but be more all over if i added the same amount of boost all the way. But if it gets to unreasonable amount of boost then i will back down on it but i would like to get the most out of the 71mm compressor

What ECU / boost controller are you using? Is the wastegate controlled electronically?

Ecu::Maxxecu Race

wastegate 60mm, controlled by maxxecu true a Mac valve.

Yeah, I'd be a little concerned as well. Just curious, why did you choose an open-deck block? I'm curious how a 5.0L engine would perform with similar boost. Staying below 7k avoids issues with oil pressure and valve float and all that jazz. As mentioned previously, since you can make power by adding boost, there's not as much need for the higher revs.

I got the donation car with the engine Pretty Cheap, it all started there. did not know about open and closed deck in them when i bought the car.

if im not remembering wrong, Hp equals to torque(lbs/ft) /5252 times the rpm you have the torque at. i

The problem with valvefloat would come a bit higher, m104 do they rev to 8000-8500rpm with double springs if i remember correct. a lot of parts are the same and i have read workshop manuals of them both and verified, i also have the light weight tappers and the lighter valves in my .980 heads.

I want more horsepower, but i am afraid that the torque will kill the engine. thats why i want to add more boost at higher rpm when the torque drops a bit.. i would have a huge amount of torque if i hade the same boost pressure at 5000rpm where it essentially peaks.

Nice! What is the advantage of the 220CDI converter, instead of the M119 converter? Also, how high will the new stall speed be?

the 220 cdi converter if smaller in diameter and therefore it have a higher stall, if i hold it on the Brakes with standard converter it will burn rubber at 15-1800rpm, the 220 cdi converter let me rev to 2400 before it turned the wheels, the new would be about 1000rpm higher sitting at 3400 at the starting light, then it would be much faster starts from zero of course on sticky tires.. it wont bolt straight on, but its do-able

Twisted the axle shafts and ripped the splines... that is awesome!

Very cool! Have any dragstrip timeslips yet? What is the rear axle ratio?

1500kg car, 201m was around 7.3 second. It was 3.73 then. first time racing and the car was just ready after building

LOL, now I see... you should add a 3-pointed Star on the hood of the brick!

That would be something

I not sure if this would block me, but i attached a picture of a burnout on 5th gear running 560hp and 235/40-18 tires, no problem at all getting them loose

 

[m119volvo]

Update on the Build.

changed to a bigger turbin shaft in the sameexhaust housing and cranked the power up quite a bit, ended up at 960nm @ 3300rpm and 730whp.

lifted the heads and got a coolant leak in the burnout before the final. ended up second place in the club Championship(dragrace).

Lifted out and when i inspected of the engine i found 2 crooked rods but no cracked cylinders.
bearings Showed signs of wear.
iron coating in the piston have melted at the dome and stuck to the sparkplugs.

going to rebuild the engine and putting in China rods.
still shooting for the magical 1000+

 

[m119volvo]

Got the cam shafts away for regrind, anyone know how much play you need between retrainer and valve seal i need to have?

Update below. got the China rods, put the pistons in the lathe and going for more power.

Also been grinding a bit in the heads.

 

[m119volvo]

Update, a close engine Builder recommend atleast 1.5mm play.

Update, since i use the the old valvespring and retainer on the newer m119.98x heads with (Opel valve locks) I can take out some material in the bottom of the retrainer to make room for more lift

 

[m119volvo]

Been doing some more work on the heads as i wait for the camshafts.

Going to be a blast in the dyno and see the results

 

[m119volvo]

So i got the engine right and up and running with the updates, and it really sound good
Made a few updates on the fuel system as well.

I will post a video on YouTube later and drop the link, stay tuned for further updates.

 

[m119volvo]

Dyno today to adjust the engine management and se the results. a big loss in bottom end. ended up at 859whp, 3 gear pull, using the 722.6 transmission.
youtube link to dyno pull.