Extracting maximum output from a given engine

[duuder]

Moderator edit: Posts below cleaved from this thread about an M119 "tuning package", since the discussion departed from M119 tuning.

Mercedes and our other german competitor did a real good job of squeezing max hp out of their NA engines before induction...

The E46M made 333hp, E39 did 394hp, E55 made 349hp, and a 63 made 507 - that's just the top of my head... really amazing engineering

 

[Draginev]

Mercedes and our other german competitor did a real good job of squeezing max hp out of their NA engines before induction...

The E46M made 333hp, E39 did 394hp, E55 made 349hp, and a 63 made 507 - that's just the top of my head... really amazing engineering

Also it made me appreciate the M113k with supercharger. Nothing else.

 

[szvook]

There were rumors circulating a while back that VÄTH had a handful of fully built 6.0L M119 engines sitting around.

 

[maw1124]

Mercedes and our other german competitor did a real good job of squeezing max hp out of their NA engines before induction...

The E46M made 333hp, E39 did 394hp, E55 made 349hp, and a 63 made 507 - that's just the top of my head... really amazing engineering

And Audi pulled 340hp / 310tq out of a 5v 4.2L V8.

The horsepower wars between '00 and '06 were really the place to be... before the USEPA gave birth to CAFE regulations and their progeny -- forced induction everything.

maw

EDIT... I once did a chart comparing my stuff, and that E46M had the most power per liter between it, the Audi 4.2 and the S55k. That may have changed once I tuned the 55k.

 

[gsxr]

The best method to compare different engine output is power per liter. The M119 in all displacements makes 63-65hp per liter in stock form. The peak was the E50 AMG which squeezed 69hp/L out of the M119.980 engine with cams, porting, and higher compression.

When you start getting into really high outputs, like the Audi 340hp 4.2L (81hp/L) or M156 (82hp/L stock, 87hp/L tuned)... those motors have the latest, greatest technology applied to a normally-aspirated engine. Stuff like variable cam timing on all 4 cams, possibly variable lift, fully optimized intake/exhaust, far more sophisticated engine management, high compression, etc etc.

It's borderline impossible to get beyond ~70hp/L from a normally aspirated M119 without forced induction, or massive changes like ITB's (which would kill low-end torque).

 

[maw1124]

The E46M was over 100hp per Liter... and that's in the detuned NorthAm spec.

I'm pretty sure the 55k gets there with a mild tune. All of the reported numbers are right around that, 550hp-575hp before you get into stupid, creating problems for yourself, more work than benefit type modifications.

maw

 

[gsxr]

The E46M was over 100hp per Liter... and that's in the detuned NorthAm spec.

100hp/liter is NUTS. Most of the time, this power level is achieved by revving to the moon. The E46 M3 uses the high-RPM method to get 333hp from 3.2L. Peak power is at 7900rpm. This is not a torque monster, lol.

I'm pretty sure the 55k gets there with a mild tune. All of the reported numbers are right around that, 550hp-575hp before you get into stupid, creating problems for yourself, more work than benefit type modifications.

Forced induction is a whole 'nuther ball of wax. The M113K can make crazy power. Same with the OM603/OM606 "superturbo" diesels. 200hp/L is not unheard of.

 

[maw1124]

I'll have to look back at it... I think I used a metric that combined HP and TQ for this very reason ... but then I realized it didn't matter if I didn't account for weight ... at which point HP and TQ should probably not be weighted equally ... and then I stopped thinking about it.



They're all just the best of breed from the horsepower wars, a sedan, a wagon and a convertible, be happy and have a nice day. Don't over complicate life.

maw

 

[sheward]

Not sweatin the details, but Audi pulled 360HP out of that 5V 4.2!

It's the torque that causes the M119 addiction.

 

[gsxr]

It's the torque that causes the M119 addiction.

Yup. And if you ever get to drive a properly-running 6L M119, suddenly the 5L feels... inadequate.

Just ask @Jlaa's daughter.

 

[duuder]

Where are all these 6.0 I keep hearing about

 

[duuder]

100hp/liter is NUTS. Most of the time, this power level is achieved by revving to the moon. The E46 M3 uses the high-RPM method to get 333hp from 3.2L. Peak power is at 7900rpm. This is not a torque monster, lol.

It wasn't torque'y but it sure did scream! Speaking of screaming, a buddie left his E46M running while he was checking out its competitor (my 996), I hoped in his car and took off...

 

[ArauzMotoring]

The Honda s2000 with the f20c engine made 240 hp from 2 liters.. it revved to 9000 or so rpms and had reportedly not so much torque lol

 

[maw1124]

Not sweatin the details, but Audi pulled 360HP out of that 5V 4.2!

It's the torque that causes the M119 addiction.

Yeah I didn't want to brag, thought that was just mine after the APR tune... forgot about your S8 and the APR tuned S4... I'm convinced that's just electronic timing advance and better fuel though.

It counts nonetheless.

It wasn't torque'y but it sure did scream! Speaking of screaming, a buddie left his E46M running while he was checking out its competitor (my 996), I hoped in his car and took off...

Bro, from 4500RPM to 7500RPM with the top down you're having an absolute ball. I enjoy it more than any 996 or 997 I ever drove. You have to get into TT land to have that much fun, but then the power comes on too strong and too late to be any fun.

I enjoy "grown man" driving in the S55, .036 and Wagon (also a screamer at WOT but nothing like the Motorsport S54)... but when I just want to go for shitz, gigglz and grinz, it's the E46M all day long.

maw