No it didn't - the same as running the Shell oil.
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No it didn't - the same as running the Shell oil.
Well I did get the Oil change completed and filled it to this level as recommended-
I took another look & cannot find a MB fully Synthetic 5w40 Oil currently available with 229.3 approval. They are 229.5 and 229.51 approval Oils which are incorrect for the m119 motor IMO in particular due to the Oil Filter.
Our m119’s have paper pleat / Cellulose Oil Filters. To run Fully Synthetic Oil a Fleece type Filter should be used – but they are not available for m119’s to my knowledge. The Fleece Filters are designed for use with newer Synthetic Oils and as such they are available for newer models of Mercedes but not m119’s (M119’s were not ‘designed’ for use with Synthetic Oils). Therefore the advantage of extended service intervals with Fully Synthetic Oils is gone due to the limit of the service life of the paper Oil Filter element.
I have changed the Oil in a 2002 S500 Mercedes where the previous mechanic had used a Paper Oil Filter with the Fully Synthetic Oil. The Paper Filter had broken down and some of it was stuck inside the Oil feed tube in the filter housing. Not good at all. I removed all the debris and fitted the correct MB Fleece Oil Filter.
Of course you can still run Fully Synthetic Oil and keep to the regular Oil Change interval due to the Oil Filter but then – where’s the advantage of running a thinner grade more expensive oil? 229.3 10w40 Oil is what I run in all my w124’s and what is ‘correct’ spec for that era of MB motor IMO.
Given the paper Oil Filter breakdown risk (The only type of Oil Filter available for a m119 to my knowledge) and that the Helix has the correct MB 229.3 approval I will stick with it I think. That is, unless Dave chimes in with a MB Fleece Oil Filter Part number for m119
Edit – I guess this describes my Rant perfectly but in more detail-
Fleece filter alternative for full-synthetic?
I took another look & cannot find a MB fully Synthetic 5w40 Oil currently available with 229.3 approval. They are 229.5 and 229.51 approval Oils which are incorrect for the m119 motor IMO in particular due to the Oil Filter.
Our m119’s have paper pleat / Cellulose Oil Filters. To run Fully Synthetic Oil a Fleece type Filter should be used – but they are not available for m119’s to my knowledge. The Fleece Filters are designed for use with newer Synthetic Oils and as such they are available for newer models of Mercedes but not m119’s (M119’s were not ‘designed’ for use with Synthetic Oils). Therefore the advantage of extended service intervals with Fully Synthetic Oils is gone due to the limit of the service life of the paper Oil Filter element.
I have changed the Oil in a 2002 S500 Mercedes where the previous mechanic had used a Paper Oil Filter with the Fully Synthetic Oil. The Paper Filter had broken down and some of it was stuck inside the Oil feed tube in the filter housing. Not good at all. I removed all the debris and fitted the correct MB Fleece Oil Filter.
Of course you can still run Fully Synthetic Oil and keep to the regular Oil Change interval due to the Oil Filter but then – where’s the advantage of running a thinner grade more expensive oil? 229.3 10w40 Oil is what I run in all my w124’s and what is ‘correct’ spec for that era of MB motor IMO.
Given the paper Oil Filter breakdown risk (The only type of Oil Filter available for a m119 to my knowledge) and that the Helix has the correct MB 229.3 approval I will stick with it I think. That is, unless Dave chimes in with a MB Fleece Oil Filter Part number for m119
Edit – I guess this describes my Rant perfectly but in more detail-
Fleece filter alternative for full-synthetic?
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I can't believe I am being stupid enough to respond to an oil thread, but here goes: Don't go nuts over this stuff. Also, there is absolutely no substance to the "fleece must be used for synthetic in a Benz". That is complete nonsense, and indeed, most of the engines we have that use synthetic oil exclusively do not use a fleece filter. Use whatever filter is specified for the engine, and change it at the specified interval. That is all you need to do. Also, if that cellulose filter that came apart in your 112/113 engine did that with less than 13,000 or so miles on it, it did that because it was a POS filter, not because it was paper. The Mickey Mouse/no name/ElCheapo version of a brand-name you have heard of/standard equipment at the quick lube paper filter will do that with as little was 4000 miles on it. We pull them out in several pieces 5000 miles old all day long. 229.5 is absolutely fine, and is the correct substitution for anything that originally specified 229.3. Indeed, 229.51 is a low/zero ash formulation for diesels with particle filters, so it's not the best choice for these engines. If you still want to go nuts, you have many choices. One that may suit you can be found at Mercedes-Benz and Porsche dealers, possibly some other places, and it is a Mobil1 5W-50. It meets 229.3. IIRC, Porsche dealers had it for the Carrera GT, and Benz dealers had it for the SLR.
But don't worry about 229.5. It is simply a slightly longer life qualification of what is basically 229.3
But don't worry about 229.5. It is simply a slightly longer life qualification of what is basically 229.3
I've been running RedLine synthetic oil with Hengst filters for many years now, with zero problems. As far as I know, a Hengst filter is at least as good as an MB factory filter in terms of quality. I've never had a quality aftermarket filter (Hengst, Mann, Mahle or Knecht) fail after any mileage, on any engine (M119, M117 or M104).
Cheers,
Gerry
Cheers,
Gerry
If memory serves me right it was a Mahle Filter in the S500 that had failed. Indeed I don't know where anyone around here would be able to find a no brand 'Chinese' Oil filter. It can happen with any car I guess but it's scary picking bits of oil filter out of your car. With respect lets- not get into how or why that filter may have failed. Point is- they can fail which is why I'm more than happy to run even shorter than specified service intervals. My 500E will do minimal miles really so an oil change even once annually would likely be in the 1k miles range.
Quite so. And for those that may not know, all of those that Gerry mentioned ARE "factory" filters. One of those brands will be what comes out of the box with the star on it.
Just to continue the Oil discussion
See the pic attached – there is a washer at the top bolt of the Oil Filter Housing. I noticed a very light oil stain on the top of the housing when I removed it for the filter change. I see that if a circlip is removed the bolt will pull right through and I could fit a Copper Washer there next time around to stop any slight Oil weeps. Does anyone replace this washer or should I just leave it alone?
I took it for about a 50 miles drive today and it runs like a wet dream. Hot Oil pressure after the drive at idle as per the pic – it’s a healthy motor
I also bought that First Gear Start module that was advertised on 500E Board so that should be here in a couple of weeks. Fitting the new pair of Aux Fans in the next task to begin this week.
See the pic attached – there is a washer at the top bolt of the Oil Filter Housing. I noticed a very light oil stain on the top of the housing when I removed it for the filter change. I see that if a circlip is removed the bolt will pull right through and I could fit a Copper Washer there next time around to stop any slight Oil weeps. Does anyone replace this washer or should I just leave it alone?
I took it for about a 50 miles drive today and it runs like a wet dream. Hot Oil pressure after the drive at idle as per the pic – it’s a healthy motor
I also bought that First Gear Start module that was advertised on 500E Board so that should be here in a couple of weeks. Fitting the new pair of Aux Fans in the next task to begin this week.
I always replace the washers and o-rings with those supplied with the oil filter kits. Quality oil filter kit should have replacement silver washer for that one at the top of the oil filter housing.
I never have to replace the oil drain bolt washers because I suck my oil out through the dipstick tube with a Topsider-type oil extraction device. Much easier and cleaner than doing it from below, although you don't have the opportunity to visually examine things underneath the car when you change oil from the top.
Always loosen, remove & replace the oil filter first before extracting oil. Also, best to change oil with a warm engine. Let the engine sit at least 10-15 mins after shutting it off, before beginning the drain/extraction process. This lets things drain down to the pan as much as possible.
Cheers,
Gerry
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I never have to replace the oil drain bolt washers because I suck my oil out through the dipstick tube with a Topsider-type oil extraction device. Much easier and cleaner than doing it from below, although you don't have the opportunity to visually examine things underneath the car when you change oil from the top.
Always loosen, remove & replace the oil filter first before extracting oil. Also, best to change oil with a warm engine. Let the engine sit at least 10-15 mins after shutting it off, before beginning the drain/extraction process. This lets things drain down to the pan as much as possible.
Cheers,
Gerry
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Thanks Gerry- yes I let the Oil Drain for a few hours yesterday and changed the filter first so as that oil isn't trapped in there.
Yes I use the new O Rings for the cap & Copper washer for the sump plug supplied with the new Filter. But they never come with a washer for that cap securing bolt. I have loads of Copper Crush washers in all metric sizes so I would have one that would fit in there.
The original washer is a steel one so it seems it's not designed to be a crush washer but it would provide a better seal of it was maybe- but then will require changing every oil change. I'll replace it next oil change anyway I think just to see if it will dry up the top cap.
Yes I use the new O Rings for the cap & Copper washer for the sump plug supplied with the new Filter. But they never come with a washer for that cap securing bolt. I have loads of Copper Crush washers in all metric sizes so I would have one that would fit in there.
The original washer is a steel one so it seems it's not designed to be a crush washer but it would provide a better seal of it was maybe- but then will require changing every oil change. I'll replace it next oil change anyway I think just to see if it will dry up the top cap.
As with all Mercedes-Benz cartridge type oil filters having a free spinning through bolt, the sealing washer between the bolt head and top cap is a finely finished steel washer. On the some versions of it, one side is slightly beveled. The beveled/rounded edged portion of it goes against the cap. Some later versions of this washer are smoothly machined on both sides, and obviously, they can go on either way. They do not usually come in M119 filter kits because M119 used a circlip on the inside that was intended to conveniently pop the cap up out of the filter housing as the bolt was unscrewed. The steel ring doesn't compress and simply gets reused, so without the risk of you ever losing or dropping the steel seal ring, there's no reason to supply one in a kit. Interestingly enough, there was often a copper washer installed between the circlip and the inside of the cap simply serving as a soft smooth surface for the circlip to push and possibly spin against. So, just use and reuse your steel washer. It's the right thing to do. I am not in a position to supply part numbers right now, but if somebody needs them, bump me on this issue and I'll get them.
Overall, this "cap attached to the bolt" is a somewhat curious arrangement that was used on no other MB passenger car engine. It works well enough on the 124 and 129 vehicles, but most annoyingly, it actually prevents you from getting the cap out of the car on some 140 models unless the motor mounts are literally like new, and I mean new like yesterday. That being the case, most of the people that worked on M119 motors for a living got in the habit of simply disassembling this entire arrangement, throwing away the circlip and the inner washer. The tragically hip paid attention to, and were careful to retain and reuse the steel washer. Others, and this was most often the case, did not know or did not care about the steel washer and why or why not it may have been chosen by the engineers, and they just grabbed whatever copper washer fit on the bolt and used that. Interestingly enough, a copper ring that works just fine often is present in the filter kits, but this copper ring, as I pointed out, actually belonged in a section of the assembly that "wasn't supposed to be" disassembled during a filter change, so I always thought that this was simply a misallocation error from the people that originally put together the contents of the filter kits. Yes, this kind of thing happens all the time, and often persists into perpetuity. So, ironically, a copper ring that can fits on the top, where the steel ring is actually supposed to be, is often present in the filter kits. All of this is why you will so often find a copper seal instead of the correct steel washer between the bolt head and the oil filter cap on a M119, especially if it is in a 140. By interesting contrast, the M116/117 engines use a nearly identical filter arrangement, except without the retaining circlip on the underside of the cap. The filter kits for those most conveniently include the correct steel washer. I believe the assumption there was since the cap/bolt could always be completely removed from each other, the risk of losing the steel ring was always present, hence a new one was always supplied in the kit...
Overall, this "cap attached to the bolt" is a somewhat curious arrangement that was used on no other MB passenger car engine. It works well enough on the 124 and 129 vehicles, but most annoyingly, it actually prevents you from getting the cap out of the car on some 140 models unless the motor mounts are literally like new, and I mean new like yesterday. That being the case, most of the people that worked on M119 motors for a living got in the habit of simply disassembling this entire arrangement, throwing away the circlip and the inner washer. The tragically hip paid attention to, and were careful to retain and reuse the steel washer. Others, and this was most often the case, did not know or did not care about the steel washer and why or why not it may have been chosen by the engineers, and they just grabbed whatever copper washer fit on the bolt and used that. Interestingly enough, a copper ring that works just fine often is present in the filter kits, but this copper ring, as I pointed out, actually belonged in a section of the assembly that "wasn't supposed to be" disassembled during a filter change, so I always thought that this was simply a misallocation error from the people that originally put together the contents of the filter kits. Yes, this kind of thing happens all the time, and often persists into perpetuity. So, ironically, a copper ring that can fits on the top, where the steel ring is actually supposed to be, is often present in the filter kits. All of this is why you will so often find a copper seal instead of the correct steel washer between the bolt head and the oil filter cap on a M119, especially if it is in a 140. By interesting contrast, the M116/117 engines use a nearly identical filter arrangement, except without the retaining circlip on the underside of the cap. The filter kits for those most conveniently include the correct steel washer. I believe the assumption there was since the cap/bolt could always be completely removed from each other, the risk of losing the steel ring was always present, hence a new one was always supplied in the kit...
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Apologies for the crap pic attached- but it seems item 20 is the Steel Ring. I might order a new one with the next lot of parts from Germany.
Edit - also for those interested attached is a full up to date list of 229.3 Approved Oils I printed from WIS.
Edit - also for those interested attached is a full up to date list of 229.3 Approved Oils I printed from WIS.
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Hi Gerry - this appears to be the Hengst Filter X Ref if I'm lookinbg it up correctly- http://www.hengst-katalog.de/en/filter/342110000/01/E153H%20D25
Are you saying you DO fit the new Steel washer on top of the Filter Housing Cap when you do an Oil Change? (Since the Hengst Filters come with the Steel Rings) I might just order a Hengst filter to get the new Steel Ring.
Klink is correct. TheAs with all Mercedes-Benz cartridge type oil filters having a free spinning through bolt, the sealing washer between the bolt head and top cap is a finely finished steel washer. On the some versions of it, one side is slightly beveled. The beveled/rounded edged portion of it goes against the cap. Some later versions of this washer are smoothly machined on both sides, and obviously, they can go on either way. They do not usually come in M119 filter kits because ... The steel ring doesn't compress and simply gets reused, so ... there's no reason to supply one in a kit. ... So, just use and reuse your steel washer. It's the right thing to do.
So, ironically, a copper ring that can fits on the top, where the steel ring is actually supposed to be, is often present in the filter kits. All of this is why you will so often find a copper seal instead of the correct steel washer between the bolt head and the oil filter cap on a M119, especially if it is in a 140.
they are not STEEL...they are ALuminium washers
The one I'm talking about is steel. I pick them up with my magnet all day long.
The steel washer in question is item #23 in the EPC photos. It should be number #20, but they are shown out of order. The old part numbner is 119 990 01 40 and as of a few years ago it was subbed to a 601 number that I don't have in front of me at the present.
Then Hengst is doing a damn good aftermarket M119 kit, which would be no surprise. Their stuff it top notch, but it would be the first ever that I have seen that had the steel washer in a M119 kit. We will await your Hengst M119 kit inspection upon your return.
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I'll have to look in my M119 Hengst kits when I get back home on the 12th.
I can tell you 100% definitively that Hengst includes both the copper oil drain pan washer and the aluminum (steel?) silver colored washer for the top of the M117 oil filter housing. I replace the M117 silver washer every time I change my oil at 3,000 miles on my 560SEC.
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I can tell you 100% definitively that Hengst includes both the copper oil drain pan washer and the aluminum (steel?) silver colored washer for the top of the M117 oil filter housing. I replace the M117 silver washer every time I change my oil at 3,000 miles on my 560SEC.
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Here is the Hengst M117 engine kit. You can see the copper drain plug and aluminum filter canister washers.
The larger diameter copper "crush" washer isn't used for most M117 applications. I have collection of dozens of these copper washers as well as the smaller drain plug washers.
Cheers,
Gerry
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The larger diameter copper "crush" washer isn't used for most M117 applications. I have collection of dozens of these copper washers as well as the smaller drain plug washers.
Cheers,
Gerry
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Klink is correct. Thesteelaluminumsilver-colored washer on top DOES NOT come with the filter kits. It is not normally replaced. Thecoppershiny brown colored washer included with the filter is for the oil pan drain plug. NOT the filter housing.
Klink - my MB Dealer is letting me order item #'s 23 & 20 in the pic. Cost is miniscule so I am going to order them anyway and see what turns up. (The number has been superseded to A601078017)
Regarding the First Gear Start module - big thanks to Doolar for forwarding me the Software needed! I intend to install the FGS Module as soon as it gets here in a couple of weeks.
I would like to install it so it is activated with the S switch beside the gearlever. This is the sportier mode of shift patterns / driving so it suits the first gear start. Whereas I want to retain the E switch mode as is - with it's 2nd gear start and lower RPM upshifts.
Doolar installed his installed his own FGS module in just the same manner as I described above - thus the FGS module is active only when the S switch is engaged. However, he reports the car 'losses' 4 th gear in the S mode since the FGS was added. But when he switches to E mode all is fine again and his car upshifts into 4th as before. So it seems FGS module related.
Has anyone experienced any such problems with the FGS modules? Or how have you guys installed yours? I think Dave maybe runs one of these at least.
Regarding the First Gear Start module - big thanks to Doolar for forwarding me the Software needed! I intend to install the FGS Module as soon as it gets here in a couple of weeks.
I would like to install it so it is activated with the S switch beside the gearlever. This is the sportier mode of shift patterns / driving so it suits the first gear start. Whereas I want to retain the E switch mode as is - with it's 2nd gear start and lower RPM upshifts.
Doolar installed his installed his own FGS module in just the same manner as I described above - thus the FGS module is active only when the S switch is engaged. However, he reports the car 'losses' 4 th gear in the S mode since the FGS was added. But when he switches to E mode all is fine again and his car upshifts into 4th as before. So it seems FGS module related.
Has anyone experienced any such problems with the FGS modules? Or how have you guys installed yours? I think Dave maybe runs one of these at least.
its kinda weird that they STILL supply some Copper washers..as you are NOT supposed to use Copper and aluminum together.
At the mercedes dealership,we ALWAYS used aluminum washers on the drain plugs,and these aplications.
just a fun fact
It’s funny you should mention that – any crush washers I buy from MB are usually aluminium! It seems Knecht didn’t get that memo......
But having said that I much prefer copper crush washers. They are a little softer and provide a better seal - which is why I have 4 sets of copper washers. (1000+ in all sizes
)
Like I said up above, the inclusion of the small copper crush washer in the M119 kit is a misallocation mistake made by the people that originally put the blueprint for the kits together. They were likely using the same photo and number reference that is shown in the EPC, and that has been shown in the parts microfilms since this engine was introduced. The small copper washer, just like the un-supplied steel washer, is never actually supposed to be "disassembled out of" or otherwise exposed from the cap/bolt assembly. It belongs on the INSIDE of the cap, above the circlip! The small copper washer in this assembly functions as a soft washer for the circlip to abraid against as it pushes the cap out of the filter housing. It serves no sealing function in the M119 application whatsoever, and there is no reason for it to be supplied in the kit. The larger copper washer obviously is there for the drain plug, and the drain plug application on this vehicle is steel against steel.
So, to say it for the last time, the confusion comes from the fact that a small uncompressed copper washer WITHOUT any sealing function IS supplied in the kit, while a steel washer that DOES have a sealing function is NOT supplied in the kit. Neither really matters, because the copper washer is NOT ever consumed/compressed in the process, and neither is the steel washer, and people are doubly confused because the kit has this misallocation of supplied parts AND multiple oil changers before you have disassembled the cap/bolt assembly for no good reason...
So, to say it for the last time, the confusion comes from the fact that a small uncompressed copper washer WITHOUT any sealing function IS supplied in the kit, while a steel washer that DOES have a sealing function is NOT supplied in the kit. Neither really matters, because the copper washer is NOT ever consumed/compressed in the process, and neither is the steel washer, and people are doubly confused because the kit has this misallocation of supplied parts AND multiple oil changers before you have disassembled the cap/bolt assembly for no good reason...
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Tonight I started into renewing the twin Aux Fans. The ones on the 500 were squeaking a little when activated so they were due replacement. I bought 2 Trucktec Units and they appear high quality very much like OE fans. I know some other aftermarket Aux fans come with sealed motors and missing some cable clips on the brackets etc but these ones are just like OE. The frame is aluminium on them – not plastic.
So they should be mounted up tomorrow night. I am following GSXR’s DIY and removed the Radiator first. Should have it back together tomorrow night but at the same time I will flush the matrix / block and re-fill with new correct antifreeze. (Blue stuff was in there) One Hose clamp was non original so I bought 3 new MB ones (Minimum order qty) to replace the rad hose clamps.
Happily – I discovered the 500E has a new Nissens Radaitor installed and the condenser looks less than a year old. All like brand new without a scratch on them so I was very careful pulling the rad.
So they should be mounted up tomorrow night. I am following GSXR’s DIY and removed the Radiator first. Should have it back together tomorrow night but at the same time I will flush the matrix / block and re-fill with new correct antifreeze. (Blue stuff was in there) One Hose clamp was non original so I bought 3 new MB ones (Minimum order qty) to replace the rad hose clamps.
Happily – I discovered the 500E has a new Nissens Radaitor installed and the condenser looks less than a year old. All like brand new without a scratch on them so I was very careful pulling the rad.
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Another parcel turned up today 
It was the new replacement crystal clear / chrome indicators. I loved the new E500 headlamps chrome look but the stock indicators looked a bit out of place / tired.
I think these ones look great and fit in well with the E500 look - chrome bulbs fitted also. (They alight Amber in colour)
It was the new replacement crystal clear / chrome indicators. I loved the new E500 headlamps chrome look but the stock indicators looked a bit out of place / tired.
I think these ones look great and fit in well with the E500 look - chrome bulbs fitted also. (They alight Amber in colour)
![DSC01459[1].JPG](/forums/data/attachments/1/1894-7d749887efef66d1583cb466a448df47.jpg?hash=fXSYh-_vZt)
Hi all, yes these are aftermarket but they 'seem' particularly high quality I don't think the lens will fly out but these are not permanent. I just got tired of the Hella clear units!
Somehow they don't jive with the E500 headlamps IMO but these are the ones I really would like (USA facelift 'turn Signals') & what I'll order when I have £200 to burn! They are particularly spendy buggers this type it seems
Somehow they don't jive with the E500 headlamps IMO but these are the ones I really would like (USA facelift 'turn Signals') & what I'll order when I have £200 to burn! They are particularly spendy buggers this type it seems
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Well both new Aux fans are now fitted into place – but having the radiator out gives much needed access to the front of the motor.
Looking closer at the front of the heads / block there is a slight oil weep on both sides. See the Pics below – could this oil be coming from the cam magnets? I know the Distributers were bone dry when I renewed the caps / rotors recently so it’s not coming from them. What else would leak oil in this area on a m119?
Under the tandem pump looks filthy also – but I am not sure if this is from the oil leak above or the pump itself – or indeed a combination of both!
Since the rad is out & access is good I have ordered a rebuild kit for this Luk tandem pump. I will pull the pump in the coming days & wait until the new seals get here. The pump will be rebuilt - then the radiator re-installed and filled with fresh Antifreeze. And.... since the belt will be off and access is good I am ordering a Bosch 150amp Alternator also (Upgrade)
I’m not sure if I want to take into the Cam magnets / front covers just now – but I would sure appreciate your opinions on where the oil could be coming from. If I get the tandem pump rebuilt before the radiator goes back in that will be a good step forward.
I do intend to fit all of the parts below this Winter. I JUST changed the Engine Oil so I want to at least enjoy the last couple months driving this year then drain the oil again and fit the following parts -
Oil Check valve updated A1191840130
Oil Level Sender O rings-
0179975748
0179975848
Updated Pickup Tube- 1101860007
Oil Strainer – 6011800155
Pan Gasket- 1190140822
Oil Filter housing gasket 1191840280
Cam Cover Gaskets –
1190101330
1190101430
Upper Sliding Rail 1190521116 (x2).
Upper Guide 1190500216
Upper Guide 1190500316
MB Cam sealant- 002989472010
I have listed these parts to sort of explain that I will be working in & around that upper head area anyway so it might make more sense to just wait a couple of months until I tackle those upper Oil leaks.
Looking closer at the front of the heads / block there is a slight oil weep on both sides. See the Pics below – could this oil be coming from the cam magnets? I know the Distributers were bone dry when I renewed the caps / rotors recently so it’s not coming from them. What else would leak oil in this area on a m119?
Under the tandem pump looks filthy also – but I am not sure if this is from the oil leak above or the pump itself – or indeed a combination of both!
Since the rad is out & access is good I have ordered a rebuild kit for this Luk tandem pump. I will pull the pump in the coming days & wait until the new seals get here. The pump will be rebuilt - then the radiator re-installed and filled with fresh Antifreeze. And.... since the belt will be off and access is good I am ordering a Bosch 150amp Alternator also (Upgrade)
I’m not sure if I want to take into the Cam magnets / front covers just now – but I would sure appreciate your opinions on where the oil could be coming from. If I get the tandem pump rebuilt before the radiator goes back in that will be a good step forward.
I do intend to fit all of the parts below this Winter. I JUST changed the Engine Oil so I want to at least enjoy the last couple months driving this year then drain the oil again and fit the following parts -
Oil Check valve updated A1191840130
Oil Level Sender O rings-
0179975748
0179975848
Updated Pickup Tube- 1101860007
Oil Strainer – 6011800155
Pan Gasket- 1190140822
Oil Filter housing gasket 1191840280
Cam Cover Gaskets –
1190101330
1190101430
Upper Sliding Rail 1190521116 (x2).
Upper Guide 1190500216
Upper Guide 1190500316
MB Cam sealant- 002989472010
I have listed these parts to sort of explain that I will be working in & around that upper head area anyway so it might make more sense to just wait a couple of months until I tackle those upper Oil leaks.
The oil leak up top is pretty likely to be from the cam solenoids but you'll need to remove the plastic covers which surround them to fully inspect. If they are leaking, there should be liquid oil at the electrical connector (solenoid itself is leaking), or around the bottom half. If that area is totally dry, it may be from something else. If you are not sure, clean it with solvent / rags / etc and stuff some paper towels in various places to pinpoint the source. If the leak is from the solenoids, re-sealing them may or may not cure the issue... it's becoming more common for the solenoids to leak between the two riveted body halves and re-sealing doesn't fix that leak. You can attempt rebuilding (samiam44 posted info on this), buy new ones, or take the easy route as I showed here - note this was applied externally only!
Thanks Dave I will remove the plastic out of the way & inspect the cam magnets this week.
Tonight I got the original Alternator removed- has anyone removed an alternator from a Euro 500E before!? Mine would not come out without removing the upper oil cooler line. (It was stuck within the brackets jammed up against the cooler line) Just getting the nuts off that oil cooler bracket took about 30 minutes - such a tight area. Good thing the radiator is out- there was no where else with enough room to get the alternator out with the cooler lines snaking around.
The surprise was this alternator appears to have already been rebuilt at some point. The slip rings have no wear and the brushes are about 30% wore - bearings smooth & silent. I will be selling this alternator when I am sure the 150amp unit fits first!
Tonight I got the original Alternator removed- has anyone removed an alternator from a Euro 500E before!? Mine would not come out without removing the upper oil cooler line. (It was stuck within the brackets jammed up against the cooler line) Just getting the nuts off that oil cooler bracket took about 30 minutes - such a tight area. Good thing the radiator is out- there was no where else with enough room to get the alternator out with the cooler lines snaking around.
The surprise was this alternator appears to have already been rebuilt at some point. The slip rings have no wear and the brushes are about 30% wore - bearings smooth & silent. I will be selling this alternator when I am sure the 150amp unit fits first!
So I got the plastic cover off the LH side of the motor – I had to remove the PS reservoir in order to remove it. Anyway – as per the pic below oil is coming out from the Magnet area and maybe also that upper ‘plate’ that magnet attaches to. So when doing the upper engine work I may have to remove that cover to re-seal it.
I am having mega trouble even seeing, let alone removing the bolts holding on the tandem pump bracket. (Behind it & under the exhaust manifold – several hoses etc) It seems possible that I can pull the front off the Tandem pump in situ – what do you guys think?
Again with the Radiator out I have room to work at it. Fit the new seals and put the innards back in with the rear part of the casing still fixed in the car? Everything can be cleaned with a Diesel Steam cleaner when the pump lines are hooked up again. The tandem pump does not appear to be leaking - but I got this far so why stop now!
I am having mega trouble even seeing, let alone removing the bolts holding on the tandem pump bracket. (Behind it & under the exhaust manifold – several hoses etc) It seems possible that I can pull the front off the Tandem pump in situ – what do you guys think?
Again with the Radiator out I have room to work at it. Fit the new seals and put the innards back in with the rear part of the casing still fixed in the car? Everything can be cleaned with a Diesel Steam cleaner when the pump lines are hooked up again. The tandem pump does not appear to be leaking - but I got this far so why stop now!
Search the forum (and my website, in the M119 section) for info on the tandem pump R&R. There are a few tricks to getting that puppy out without filling the swear jar.
The front head cover ALMOST never leaks, even it it looks like it is leaking. The oil is almost always from somewhere else and traveling around the engine. BT, DT...
The front head cover ALMOST never leaks, even it it looks like it is leaking. The oil is almost always from somewhere else and traveling around the engine. BT, DT...
Ahh- got it thanks Dave
http://www.w124performance.com/images/M119/PS_pumps/
Ill remove the air duct underneath and try again tomorrow night. I'll try to remove the pump and leave the bracket in place. So it's the 2x rear hex bolts I need to undo and the pump is free!
http://www.w124performance.com/images/M119/PS_pumps/
Ill remove the air duct underneath and try again tomorrow night. I'll try to remove the pump and leave the bracket in place. So it's the 2x rear hex bolts I need to undo and the pump is free!
Now I’ve got this far it seems like the time is nigh to update the other parts in the Engine I had planned to do. As I keep saying having that radiator out of the way gives alot more room to work and I don’t fancy taking it out again in a couple of months time.
So this morning all these parts were ordered (Genuine MB)-
Brake Reservoir seals- 0014312687 (x2)
Power Steering Box Seal Set-
0099974245
1244660060
0219971648
0149975248
0089976048
0199975047
S Return Hose – 1244663281
Heat Shield tubing for hose 1269972982 £6.86 per m (x2m)
Oil Check valve updated A1191840130
Oil Level Sender O rings-
0179975748
0179975848
Updated Pickup Tube- 1101860007
Dipstick O-Ring 0179971648
Oil Strainer – 6011800155
Pan Gasket- 1190140822
Oil Filter housing gasket 1191840280
Seal Ring- Oil Filter Housing- 0129975648
Cam Cover Gaskets –
1190101330
1190101430
Upper Sliding Rail 1190521116 (x2)
Upper Guide 1190500216
Upper Guide 1190500316
I have a busy few weeks ahead
So this morning all these parts were ordered (Genuine MB)-
Brake Reservoir seals- 0014312687 (x2)
Power Steering Box Seal Set-
0099974245
1244660060
0219971648
0149975248
0089976048
0199975047
S Return Hose – 1244663281
Heat Shield tubing for hose 1269972982 £6.86 per m (x2m)
Oil Check valve updated A1191840130
Oil Level Sender O rings-
0179975748
0179975848
Updated Pickup Tube- 1101860007
Dipstick O-Ring 0179971648
Oil Strainer – 6011800155
Pan Gasket- 1190140822
Oil Filter housing gasket 1191840280
Seal Ring- Oil Filter Housing- 0129975648
Cam Cover Gaskets –
1190101330
1190101430
Upper Sliding Rail 1190521116 (x2)
Upper Guide 1190500216
Upper Guide 1190500316
I have a busy few weeks ahead
Further investigation revealed 80% of the oil leak is coming from inside of the cam Magnet (Through the edges of it) and the rest from the Cam Cover Gasket.
The debate is – even if I splash out on new Magnets – won’t they leak again at some point? Maybe this will be a more permanent fix to that issue. So I figured I had nothing to lose but split it and see what’s going on. (Inspired by Samiam44’s thread) It’s a simple device with the magnet flanked by two rubber gaskets which are clamped inside the casing. I drilled out the old rivets with a 3.2mm bit in my drill press – 2 minute job.
This is what they look like split
So I figure I have nothing to lose cleaning them up, dressing both sides of each rubber gasket with a thin smear of RTV & pop riveting them back together. I didn’t fancy the idea of bashing metal rivets in so I found a solution I liked in the form of 3.2mm, countersunk closed end pop rivets. I think they are perfect for this application & hell the magnet reseal / rebuild job will take less than 15 minutes per magnet!
A caveat to this repair as Dave rightly pointed out is effort of this repair vs replacement of new later style Magnets (Cheaper than the early version magnets which are £££) But I found the effort to split the magnet was minimal and I’m happy to concede defeat if they ever leak oil again.
The debate is – even if I splash out on new Magnets – won’t they leak again at some point? Maybe this will be a more permanent fix to that issue. So I figured I had nothing to lose but split it and see what’s going on. (Inspired by Samiam44’s thread) It’s a simple device with the magnet flanked by two rubber gaskets which are clamped inside the casing. I drilled out the old rivets with a 3.2mm bit in my drill press – 2 minute job.
This is what they look like split
So I figure I have nothing to lose cleaning them up, dressing both sides of each rubber gasket with a thin smear of RTV & pop riveting them back together. I didn’t fancy the idea of bashing metal rivets in so I found a solution I liked in the form of 3.2mm, countersunk closed end pop rivets. I think they are perfect for this application & hell the magnet reseal / rebuild job will take less than 15 minutes per magnet!
A caveat to this repair as Dave rightly pointed out is effort of this repair vs replacement of new later style Magnets (Cheaper than the early version magnets which are £££) But I found the effort to split the magnet was minimal and I’m happy to concede defeat if they ever leak oil again.
Today I tried to get the rear bolts out so I could remove the tandem pump from the 500E. After 90 minutes trying to get one bolt out from underneath I gave up. It was stuck solid and the allen slot starting to try rounding out. So I resorted to plan B – split the pump in situ. This worked out well actually so far. Everything will be thoroughly cleaned before re-assembly of the pump.
The MB price for the LUK seal kit is £90ish vs £10 for a Febi Kit was so I went for the Febi which I don’t normally like doing. But MB really were taking the cake with that price WTF.
EDIT - DONT ORDER THIS FEBI KIT IT'S RUBBISH - SEE BELOW
Anyway from disassembling the pump mine appears to not require the centre seals – there were none fitted in the dual slots and the new seals are not compatible. Has anyone encountered a tandem pump like this? (With no centre pump seals)
The main front seal will be replaced tomorrow and a couple of O rings at the front. As per Dave’s advice I will leave the centre seal alone since it looks like a PITA and the car is not mixing fluids.
Should I unbolt the upper plate on the pump (Where the pipe from the PS reservoir attaches) – will there be more seals in there worthwhile to replace?
The MB price for the LUK seal kit is £90ish vs £10 for a Febi Kit was so I went for the Febi which I don’t normally like doing. But MB really were taking the cake with that price WTF.
EDIT - DONT ORDER THIS FEBI KIT IT'S RUBBISH - SEE BELOW
Anyway from disassembling the pump mine appears to not require the centre seals – there were none fitted in the dual slots and the new seals are not compatible. Has anyone encountered a tandem pump like this? (With no centre pump seals)
The main front seal will be replaced tomorrow and a couple of O rings at the front. As per Dave’s advice I will leave the centre seal alone since it looks like a PITA and the car is not mixing fluids.
Should I unbolt the upper plate on the pump (Where the pipe from the PS reservoir attaches) – will there be more seals in there worthwhile to replace?
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JC,
Now, That looks like a plan and probably will last forever.
Can you post a couple of photos of the re-assembled magnets before you install them. I plan on doing this same job in the near future. I hope it works because I already have the riviter. It hasn't been used in 25 years. I bought it to install a new SS battery tray in my long gone 190 SL back in the late 80s.
Now, That looks like a plan and probably will last forever.
Can you post a couple of photos of the re-assembled magnets before you install them. I plan on doing this same job in the near future. I hope it works because I already have the riviter. It hasn't been used in 25 years. I bought it to install a new SS battery tray in my long gone 190 SL back in the late 80s.
Hi Terry, yes no problem I'll take pictures of each stage & post them here. For the rivets I will be installing them from behind so I'll need to countersink the rear plate face for the rivets heads to sit flush. Im still waiting on the Rivets to turn up in the post but when they do I'll finish rebuilding the first magnet
Took into cleaning the pump this morning and realised that the main seals were stuck to the flange and just looked like they were part of the assembly so ignore my comment above!
The Febi kit is crap just look at these seals for comparison.
So I'll order the £££ MB seal kit now Part number 0004604580 and wait 2 weeks until it gets here- that sucks. This is the pump parts removed so far but I will remove the entire pump bracket now off the engine and clean everything up.
It seems like there is very little info out there for the LUK tandem pump rebuild - I will post plenty of pics. BUT - it looks like this centre section could come out - what are you guy's thought's on that?? I could try am internal puller on it but I don't want to damage anything. I want this to be a full rebuild now with every seal so if some O-rings are hiding in there I would like to replce them.
The Febi kit is crap just look at these seals for comparison.
So I'll order the £££ MB seal kit now Part number 0004604580 and wait 2 weeks until it gets here- that sucks. This is the pump parts removed so far but I will remove the entire pump bracket now off the engine and clean everything up.
It seems like there is very little info out there for the LUK tandem pump rebuild - I will post plenty of pics. BUT - it looks like this centre section could come out - what are you guy's thought's on that?? I could try am internal puller on it but I don't want to damage anything. I want this to be a full rebuild now with every seal so if some O-rings are hiding in there I would like to replce them.
I have the ZF pump so I can't say from personal experience, but I'm pretty sure that the center section of your LUK pump does come out. See Gerry's epic tandem pump (ZF) rebuild thread here - HOW-TO: Removing and re-sealing ZF tandem pump (SLS and power steering), post #46 for how to remove (or you can refer directly to the FSM procedure mentioned). It's a bit scary hammering it out, but the procedure does work (at least it did for me). The smaller shaft seal is underneath that center piston and I don't think you can easily access it without first removing the center piston. I used a pilot bearing puller to remove the seal itself. Note how that seal is installed before you remove it so you can install the new seal back in the same relative position (channel side in).
Thanks for the info I appreciate that. I had looked at Gerry's DIY it's very good! Just a shame these cars run 2 types of pumps and mine has the rarer more expensive to rebuild one.
There is no access to hammer the centre section out on the LUK pump but I do agree it looks like that part comes out.
So I also ordered one of the pilot bearing puller sets as per the pic. This will let me pull the centre section & renew the centre seal when it's out of the way. There is a small gap where the centre seal could be grabbed with this puller set
