LSD install with ASR

[yao500e]

hello Gents,

Is it possible to install and LSD into the diff if the car came with ASR?

thank you

 

[gerryvz]

Yes. No sense in re-hashing previous answers and threads when there is a lot of information here on the forum about this. There are a couple or three solutions. Many many many threads of good reading.

Use the search terms Wavetrac or Quaife. Also you can use LSD as a search term and check the “titles only” box.

 

[yao500e]

Yes. No sense in re-hashing previous answers and threads when there is a lot of information here on the forum about this. There are a couple or three solutions. Many many many threads of good reading.

Use the search terms Wavetrac or Quaife. Also you can use LSD as a search term and check the “titles only” box.

got it. thanks very much. someone planted in me some information about ASR cars have issues.

 

[gerryvz]

In the 20+ years I've been associated with the E500E community, I have seen very very little problem with the ASR system on these cars. Generally, any activation of the ASR light has been associated with specific component failures, such as the neutral safety switch. Overall the ASR-III system as found on the E500E is very very reliable and much better than the ASR-I as found optionally on the 1991 model year US-spec W126 models. LSD is not particularly needed, though some have found it interesting and useful. You're not really going to use it or notice it in everyday driving.

 

[gerryvz]

got it. thanks very much. someone planted in me some information about ASR cars have issues.

This site has one of the most advanced and performant search functions available (outside of Google) on the planet. It is powered by the Elasticsearch engine, which is flexible and very powerful.

As an addition to the "base" Elasticsearch engine, we have implemented a "Google-style" engine that automatically and instantly provides search answers as you type in additional characters, changing its results the more letters you type in. Again, this very advanced search capability is not found on most forum sites.

Here are a few sample searches that can get you going on your quest for information:
. .

 

[yao500e]

In the 20+ years I've been associated with the E500E community, I have seen very very little problem with the ASR system on these cars. Generally, any activation of the ASR light has been associated with specific component failures, such as the neutral safety switch. Overall the ASR-III system as found on the E500E is very very reliable and much better than the ASR-I as found optionally on the 1991 model year US-spec W126 models. LSD is not particularly needed, though some have found it interesting and useful. You're not really going to use it or notice it in everyday driving.

Really helpful. you saved me a ton of money and time. I will remain ASR after a few days of thinking about it.
I also found a video of a '95 C36 owner who thought he had LSD since both wheels were spinning during a burn out launch when in reality he had ASR. so it seems ASR mimics or very close to LSD.

thank you!

 

[gsxr]

I also found a video of a '95 C36 owner who thought he had LSD since both wheels were spinning during a burn out launch when in reality he had ASR. so it seems ASR mimics or very close to LSD

Many cars with open differentials will spin both wheels during a burnout. This is normal when the grip levels are even left to right. LSD helps when the grip levels are different on each side. An open diff will spin both tires only when conditions are just right. LSD helps when conditions are just wrong.

 

[Benzy Boy]

off topic but wavetrac and quaife both have no applications for the 1997 SL500
any options?

 

[yao500e]

Many cars with open differentials will spin both wheels during a burnout. This is normal when the grip levels are even left to right. LSD helps when the grip levels are different on each side. An open diff will spin both tires only when conditions are just right. LSD helps when conditions are just wrong.

ok. thank you. that makes sense. So ASR is not any sort of 'soft LSD' feature. no lock up function to make both wheels spin. So i guess ASR wont work for some light drifting? (not that i would drift with a C36 lol )

 

[gsxr]

off topic but wavetrac and quaife both have no applications for the 1997 SL500
any options?

Nothing exists off the shelf that I know of. The 129.067/.076 use a "reinforced" differential that is completely different than the W124 (and early R129). RENNtech offered a custom one decades ago but I think it was $7500 plus installation?

The SL500 really doesn't need it - not enough power. Maybe an SL600, definitely an SL74.

 

[gsxr]

ok. thank you. that makes sense. So ASR is not any sort of 'soft LSD' feature. no lock up function to make both wheels spin.

ASR is traction control, not LSD, but it simulates part of the effect of LSD by braking the wheel which is spinning. It has NO lockup function of any kind. Read this for details on what ASR does.

So i guess ASR wont work for some light drifting? (not that i would drift with a C36 lol )

Nope, you'd have to disable ASR for drifting (or add an ASR Off switch), then you have an open differential. It might drift some of the time when you break loose both tires, but not consistently.

 

[NIIBE]

I am a Fun or Crazy about LSD.
I am using OS giken TCD for 500E with 2.65.2.82.3.04.3.47 and 3.67. more than 6 OS giken LSD.
The Performance is worth to invest not small amount of budget.

Not only for drifting or Drag racing but also street high way driving with stability and straightness even hard wind or heavy rain.

Hence Genuine 500SEC LSD was almost useless for my purpose.
The problem is small diameter drive shaft.
these are easy to break and may cause severe damage.

Now Kangaroo provide nice budget friendly drive shafts with hub.

These products are relatively for high end parts,
so it would cost total more than 10,000USD for LSD, rebuild, drive shafts, Hub, kuckle and labor.

But worth to squeeze budget for me.




OS GIKEN USA MERCEDES

OS LSD 500E

Team Kangaroo
Drive Shafts Kangaroo


Niibe Speed

 

[gsxr]

Nothing exists off the shelf that I know of. The 129.067/.076 use a "reinforced" differential that is completely different than the W124 (and early R129). RENNtech offered a custom one decades ago but I think it was $7500 plus installation?

The SL500 really doesn't need it - not enough power. Maybe an SL600, definitely an SL74.

@Benzy Boy , check out this possible option from OS Giken (thanks, Niibe!). I don't know if it's a bolt-in, but it's the first off-the-shelf option I've seen for the R129 SL500/SL600 with reinforced 210mm differential:

OS SuperLock LSD for Mercedes Benz - D TYPE

Description The OS Giken Super Lock LSD uses our patented pressure ring design that allows for smooth, progressive locking. This design is a spline-through-side-gear design that allows for fitment of more friction plates (up to 2x as many as competitors versions). All components are chemically...

osgikenusa.com

 

[TerryA]

I am a Fun or Crazy about LSD.
I am using OS giken TCD for 500E with 2.65.2.82.3.04.3.47 and 3.67. more than 6 OS giken LSD.
The Performance is worth to invest not small amount of budget.

Not only for drifting or Drag racing but also street high way driving with stability and straightness even hard wind or heavy rain.

Hence Genuine 500SEC LSD was almost useless for my purpose.
The problem is small diameter drive shaft.
these are easy to break and may cause severe damage.

Now Kangaroo provide nice budget friendly drive shafts with hub.

These products are relatively for high end parts,
so it would cost total more than 10,000USD for LSD, rebuild, drive shafts, Hub, kuckle and labor.

But worth to squeeze budget for me.

View attachment 177898View attachment 177899View attachment 177900View attachment 177901


OS GIKEN USA MERCEDES

OS LSD 500E

Team Kangaroo
Drive Shafts Kangaroo


Niibe Speed

@NIIBE,
So you have done numerous mods to your 500E. Those driveshafts are impressive.

Inquiring minds want to know. What do you estimate your HP/TQ to be in your M119? Have you any Dyno Runs yet?

lol

 

[NIIBE]

Inquiring minds want to know. What do you estimate your HP/TQ to be in your M119? Have you any Dyno Runs yet?

I have been racing on track and strip with other race cars and as racing team member since I was teen,
More than 40years. and That's my life.

My 500E is just one of for my fun and not only seeking the weekly/ season basis result but enjoying the long process and time,
base on our good and bad experience.

Of course I am respecting their confidence and know how from their experience,
So I haven't disclose all of my test and RD results including each cylinder pressure, temp, O2 and flow etc.
If you have interest, you can dig out some part of results as follows,

As such as,

500E M800 ECU Dyno result in 2015 summer hot day 363.1kw/6130rpm　590.8nm/3100rpm　Intake temp 71℃/998hpa
　
ECU Map out look 550cc injector/73.5% 550cc injector is almost full open 75% is 3/4 cycle.

For my next step, build new engine with new fuel feed line.

I am continuously building and up date for new motors with something new, but step by step.

I am preparing new billet Cr-Mo Camshafts without HLA for High rev.
The dry sump might be next motor after New head modification and these results.

Modern Fuel pumps with catch tank shall feed enough gas, current ones are almost maximum.
preparing #AN8 fuel rail and pressure regulator, 800cc to 1000cc modern injectors shall be redone for more power.

Not to mention new modern ECU with CAN.

My 180 degree headers are designed for this new version or next new motor.

I thought that I am lucky,
These are not for my Investment and business, so no need to count money and time.

What a wonderful thing!
No need to count or speak efficiency and such the "slavery" words of ROI or Cost Performance/ Time Performance.

I thought that these are to pursue my interests and enjoy the whole process.

Memento mori Carpe diem

Speed Niibe

 

[TerryA]

@NIIBE,
Thank you. Your answer is close enough for me. It shows that your research and enthusiasm has really paid off. I’m sure your current project will be outstanding!

I wish you the best of luck!