Wavetrac LSD group buy

[Beater400E]

I've been chatting with Jonai at UroTuning.com (no affiliation) about potentially getting an order going with Wavetrac for some LSDs.

If anyone is interested, let me know or reach out to Jonai at Jonai@urotuning.com and let him know you're interested in a Wavetrac 50-309-150WK as part of the possible 500eboard group buy. Obviously no guarantees that anything will come of it, but the more interest we show here, the better the odds it will happen.

And in case anyone is curious, UroTuning.com is not affiliated with URO Parts. Just an unfortunate coincidence.

 

[gsxr]

Is Wavetrac still insisting on a MOQ of 25 units (at ~$1k/ea wholesale/dealer cost)?

 

[Beater400E]

Is Wavetrac still insisting on a MOQ of 25 units (at ~$1k/ea wholesale/dealer cost)?

I don't know. I would guess yes, and I mentioned that to Jonai when I spoke with him. He said if we generate a "good amount of interest" he'd try to work some magic. I don't know what a good amount of interest is, but I'm hoping that between any interested parties here, and a speculative investment from UroTuning, we might be able to put something together.

 

[tanger]

Did this ever get off the ground? I would be interested in an (extra) unit that people no longer want or need

 

[gsxr]

I think at the moment the easiest solution is to buy the Quaife QDF5V, which is available off-the-shelf from multiple vendors, last I checked? Looks like $1400-$1500 right now. If you hate money, look at the OS Giken units for like $3k-$4k.

There is very little difference between the Wavetrac and Quaife. Ten years ago, it was a PITA to get Quaife as the only vendors were overseas in UK. Overseas shipping was expensive, exchange rates weren't always favorable, sometimes credit cards had international conversion fees. Wavetrac was enticing because they were located here in the colonies, shipping was reasonable, credit card payment was fine.

Today, Wavetrac does not seem interested in producing more units unless they can sell a minimum of 25-50 of a particular diff, which is a little insane. Wavetrac is snubbing consumers with their high MOQ's, and Quaife seems to want our business. Hmmm, which to pursue...

 

[Alphasud40]

One benefit of a quaife is a larger range of options if you want to run a numerically higher ratio over 3:07 they have spacers and bolt kits to accommodate. That’s the way I will go when I add LSD to the 3:69 differential I have.

 

[tanger]

Thanks! I need to do some much more research. Only reason I was considering it was my diff is leaking and if I have to crack it open to reseal maybe put in a LSD. My slipperly slopes tend to be more like cliffs LOL...

 

[gsxr]

One benefit of a quaife is a larger range of options if you want to run a numerically higher ratio over 3:07 they have spacers and bolt kits to accommodate. That’s the way I will go when I add LSD to the 3:69 differential I have.

I wasn't aware of this! Do you know if they have anything for the QDF5V specifically, which fits the E500E pumpkin? Of course, finding a 3.27 or higher numerical is a separate challenge if your car has ASR... then you need a 722.6 with 0.83 overdrive to make it livable on the freeway... slippery slope falling off a cliff, indeed.

3.27 x 0.83 = 2.71
3.46 x 0.83 = 2.87
3.69 x 0.83 = 3.06

 

[Alphasud40]

I don’t know for sure but I’m using the large pumpkin from a 92 SL without ASR. I emailed them a while back and they could provide me with parts to make a 3:69 a LSD using the same differential center section we use for the E420/400E cars without ASR.

 

[oaklandw124]

I have a used quaife from GSXR's 500E that I would be willing to sell if interested. Dave, is this LSD what Alphsud40 is looking for?

 

[gsxr]

I have a used quaife from GSXR's 500E that I would be willing to sell if interested. Dave, is this LSD what Alphsud40 is looking for?

Yup, that's a QDF5V for 2.65/2.82/3.06 ratios in a 210mm housing!

 

[tanger]

I have a used quaife from GSXR's 500E that I would be willing to sell if interested. Dave, is this LSD what Alphsud40 is looking for?

If Alphsud40 doesn't want it I am interested. Haven't done the research yet but I'm not looking to move off stock ratios so will this work for my stock 500E? I would like to add ASR defeat though.

 

[gsxr]

If Alphsud40 doesn't want it I am interested. Haven't done the research yet but I'm not looking to move off stock ratios so will this work for my stock 500E?

Yup, this will work with a stock 500E diff.

I would like to add ASR defeat though.

That's a completely separate project, you can add ASR defeat before or after.

 

[Beater400E]

Oooh, me too! I'll take one.

 

[oaklandw124]

So, right now the LSD is installed in my E420 but I'm wanting to switch back to the E420's original diff. Might take me a month or so to remove from the car. I was thinking $900.00 plus shipping but I do not know the market price of used LSD's...only what they cost new.

 

[Alphasud40]

Go ahead guys the timing is not right for me.

 

[kegmankipp]

So, right now the LSD is installed in my E420 but I'm wanting to switch back to the E420's original diff. Might take me a month or so to remove from the car. I was thinking $900.00 plus shipping but I do not know the market price of used LSD's...only what they cost new.

Please
Let me know

Ready to buy

 

[Beater400E]

 

[oaklandw124]

Hi everyone, I have removed the diff with the LSD from my E420 so it is now available. $900.00

One thing I wanted to mention is that there is a whining noise coming from the diff...around 45-70mph If you want to use the 2.65 diff with the LSD as one piece, you will have to deal with the whine. I would say on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being loudest) it is around a 3 but that is subjective.

My thought is that someone would just want the LSD unit and end up not using the diff. Again, the diff came in GSXR's 500E that I purchased. I went back to the stock 500E diff.

 

[TerryA]

@oaklandw124,
You might want to contact @yao500e who is looking to change his 95-E36 differential to a 3.07 out of a 97-E36. He might be interested in installing along w/ his new 3.07

 

[Beater400E]

I'm interested, but admittedly the whining noise would make me really nervous. Where are you located @oaklandw124 ?

 

[oaklandw124]

I'm interested, but admittedly the whining noise would make me really nervous. Where are you located @oaklandw124 ?

I am in Michigan.

 

[oaklandw124]

@oaklandw124,
You might want to contact @yao500e who is looking to change his 95-E36 differential to a 3.07 out of a 97-E36. He might be interested in installing along w/ his new 3.07

Thanks, Terry. I will send him a PM

 

[oaklandw124]

I'm not trying to sell both a good diff and the LSD. I'm offering to sell a LSD that happens to be in a whining diff. If you are looking for a 2.65 diff that includes the LSD, then this probably isn't for you unless you are willing to investigate the whine. If you have a project where you want to add a LSD to your existing diff, this would be a better scenario.

My indy shop doesn't think the LSD is causing the whine, and maybe GSXR can confirm that statement.

 

[gsxr]

My indy shop doesn't think the LSD is causing the whine, and maybe GSXR can confirm that statement.

I agree with the indy. The whine is likely from the pinion bearings, which are original. The LSD (which is Quaife ATB, not Wavetrac) had new bearings when installed in the 2.65 diff.

 

[oaklandw124]

I agree with the indy. The whine is likely from the pinion bearings, which are original. The LSD (which is Quaife ATB, not Wavetrac) had new bearings when installed in the 2.65 diff.

Thanks!

 

[Beater400E]

My indy shop doesn't think the LSD is causing the whine, and maybe GSXR can confirm that statement.

Yeah, thr more I think about it the less likely it seems the issue would be with the LSD. At 45+ MPH the LSD isn't doing anything. I guess carrier bearings could be making noise, but you'd change those to install it in another housing anyway. More likely to be pinion bearings or even the ring and pinion gears.

How much do you think it would be to ship? I'm in Boise, Idaho 83709.

 

[oaklandw124]

Yeah, thr more I think about it the less likely it seems the issue would be with the LSD. At 45+ MPH the LSD isn't doing anything. I guess carrier bearings could be making noise, but you'd change those to install it in another housing anyway. More likely to be pinion bearings or even the ring and pinion gears.

How much do you think it would be to ship? I'm in Boise, Idaho 83709.

I'm going to guess about $100.00

 

[dreaming.haze]

Try Pirate Ship for a more reasonable price on the shipment. Should lower the price a bit

 

[oaklandw124]

Try Pirate Ship for a more reasonable price on the shipment. Should lower the price a bit

Beater400e, I will go to my shop and get the dimensions of the box and see what the rates are if you're interested.

 

[Beater400E]

I will talk to my wife and see how much trouble I'll be in and let you know.

Incidentally, I have lots of parts for sale if anyone wants to help me fund the purchase.

 

[Beater400E]

Well, I guess the universe wants me to buy that diff. My wife begrudgingly said yes, and I just sold several hundred dollars in parts in last hour.

@gsxr, what was your experience with the Quaife? Sounds like the very best option out there, especially with my 3.06 gears. Any reason I wouldn't be happy with it? Also, does $900 + shipping seem fair for it?

 

[oaklandw124]

Well, I guess the universe wants me to buy that diff. My wife begrudgingly said yes, and I just sold several hundred dollars in parts in last hour.

@gsxr, what was your experience with the Quaife? Sounds like the very best option out there, especially with my 3.06 gears. Any reason I wouldn't be happy with it? Also, does $900 + shipping seem fair for it?

Hi, can you PM me your address so I can look at shipping? Thanks,
Eric

 

[Beater400E]

Hi, can you PM me your address so I can look at shipping? Thanks,
Eric

Message sent. Thanks Eric.

 

[gsxr]

Well, I guess the universe wants me to buy that diff. My wife begrudgingly said yes, and I just sold several hundred dollars in parts in last hour.

@gsxr, what was your experience with the Quaife? Sounds like the very best option out there, especially with my 3.06 gears. Any reason I wouldn't be happy with it? Also, does $900 + shipping seem fair for it?

I like both Quaife and Wavetrac. The designs are extremely similar. Price is very reasonable IMO, especially with Wavetrac being OOS everywhere. I think a new Quaife would cost you 50% more?

 

[ArauzMotoring]

Sorry for the thread hi jack but would that 2.65 final drive work on the 500E and potentially provide for higher top speed? Asking for a friend

 

[gsxr]

Sorry for the thread hi jack but would that 2.65 final drive work on the 500E and potentially provide for higher top speed? Asking for a friend

Yes. Theoretical top speed is 172-174mph with 2.65 gears... allegedly, the 5.0L engine runs out of steam in the low 170's.

To go faster than that, both taller gears (2.47 or 2.24) and more power is required.

 

[Beater400E]

I like both Quaife and Wavetrac. The designs are extremely similar. Price is very reasonable IMO, especially with Wavetrac being OOS everywhere. I think a new Quaife would cost you 50% more?

Yeah, that's what I'm seeing too. The best price I've found is £1115 ($1412 USD) plus shipping from Dorking, UK. (Got to love British place names.) I'd speculate freight would be a few hundred more, so we're approaching $2k, and that's before installation.

OaklandW124's diff is $1000 including shipping, and includes a whole diff housing, and a set of 2.65 gears. So I figure I'm getting the equivalent of half off. Obviously I'll need to do some work to get it all assembled, but it shouldn't be too bad.

We did the deal this morning. It's on its way to Idaho now. I'm stoked.

Thanks again, @oaklandw124

 

[Alphasud40]

Shameless plug for my Wavetrac listed in the E420/400E parts for sale.

 

[Beater400E]

Man, the rocking horse poop is all popping up this week.

Incidentally, I have a W126 clutch-type LSD I'll be putting up for sale shortly as well if anyone is looking for a budget option.

 

[Beater400E]

So let's talk about the behavior of the Quaife diff. I'm fiddling around with this one and it's not behaving as I would expect. It basically acts like a spool. Both sides appear to be fully locked together. That's not normal, is it?

My understanding is that it should essentially act like an open diff when no load is on either side, and then act like a locked diff when one side has resistance.

When I received the diff, it was pretty loose in its packaging, and one axle shaft had fully come out of the case. I'm concerned it could be a damaged unit.

Anyone have any experience testing one of these?

 

[gsxr]

These are ATB diffs and are quite "tight" on the workbench. It does act like an open diff when both sides are unloaded. With the car in the air, you can turn one wheel by hand.

When one wheel starts to lose grip, power is transferred to the opposite wheel, but it does not act like a locked diff - ever. However when one wheel has ZERO grip (like, on ice)... zero power is transferred to the opposite wheel. There are some videos online explaining more about how these (and Wavetrac, which are nearly identical design) function when driving.

The axles are retained by C-clip snap rings, if they have lost tension, replace them. It's pretty much unpossible to damage a diff during shipping inside a diff housing. There are pics on my website of the internals, it's just packed with gears.

 

[Beater400E]

These are ATB diffs and are quite "tight" on the workbench.

Yeah, I think that's all it is. It sounds like I might need quite a bit more torque to get it to turn on the bench.

The axles are retained by C-clip snap rings, if they have lost tension, replace them.

I think at least one of them is a little weak. It took way less effort to get one side out than the other. I'll see if I can replace them both.

 

[gsxr]

Yeah, I think that's all it is. It sounds like I might need quite a bit more torque to get it to turn on the bench.

There's a mounting tool that clamps in a bench vise, that you bolt the LSD to... this allows wrenching on an axle stub shaft. You could make one if you don't already have it. MB # 201-589-02-31-00 ($90) or the aftermarket equivalent Miller 9630 ($13 on eBay here).

 

[Beater400E]

You could make one if you don't already have it.

Yeah, that will be an easy one to make.

 

[gsxr]

 

[Beater400E]

View attachment 210024

I find this hilarious and delightful. The fact that there is a published blueprint for a piece of scrap metal with two holes drilled in it is the most German thing I can think of.