M119 front main crank / hub seal replacement

[mercedesbenz911]

My front main crankshaft seal is leaking and needs replacement. I've looked through the service manual and Mercedes calls for installing a special locking tool to prevent the engine from rotating while undoing the main bolt and later retorquing it to the required 400Nm. I looked for info from others that have done this job before and found very little info online for the M119 unfortunately.

I don't have this tool and it costs over $100 to buy new. Not to mention that it requires removal of the starter and left exhaust downpipe, according to the service manual, both of which I'd like to avoid if at all possible.

For those that have replaced this seal before, how do you counterhold the engine while removing the crankshaft bolt? I've done the job on front wheel drive vehicles before, and you can use the starter to break the bolt loose by resting the tool solidly against the frame and "bumping" the starter briefly. Even if you could do that here, there's no way you could torque it back to 400Nm without the engine rotating first.

 

[emerydc8]

You can lock the engine from turning if you remove the two bolts on the access plate on the bottom of the transmission bell housing and turn the crank clockwise (while facing the engine) until you can see one of the three torque converter bolts. Then, pull out the bolt (see pic) and replaced it with a longer bolt that has a sleeve on it (I used some large nuts too, as spacers). You can get the bolt and sleeve at Ace hardware, but make sure you get the hardest bolt they have.

Use a floor jack under a breaker bar to loosen the big 27mm damper bolt. Be careful because this does put some stress on your motor mounts and it's not generally viewed as safe to use a jack and breaker bar in combination. I did this on my 93 400E and it actually lifted the engine up before the bolt finally came loose.

There is a special tool to press in the new crank seal. It is two-sided and one side pushes the seal back further in the event you have running scores. I would bet that GSXR or GVZ has one in his toolbox. I recall using a blow torch to heat up the sleeve so it would easily slide back over the crank on re-installation. You may be able to get away without having the tool but the tool definitely makes it easy.

The last time I checked, the MB crank lock that goes where the starter is was over $300.

As for torquing the bolt on re-installation, I don't know if they even make a torque wrench that goes up that high. I recall the shop foreman at the dealer telling me that they used to max out their torque wrench and then go another 1/4 or 1/2 turn. I'm sure Klink can tell you.

 

[gerryvz]

Typically, I'd just go to my local indy shop and borrow their M119 flywheel lock tool for the weekend, seeing this is a pretty rare job to do. Jon's method would certainly work in a pinch. The photo below shows the flywheel bolt access panel on an M104, which is similar to where you'd insert the bolt on an M119.

I would always prefer to do the job with the proper flywheel lock, if possible/available.

Yes, I own the Miller 9101 and 9103 front crank seal installers, which are German-made Chrysler Crossfire tools, but directly applicable for the M104 and M119 engines. Let me know if you would like to borrow .. but I need my head bolt socket back first

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[samiam44]

Easy-

I have done this twice. I do seal replacement at the time of the water pump. Note, I would borrow the autozone harmonic balancer puller and pull the hub/balancer as a unit. Sometimes the balancer will come off the hub easily- but sometimes it is quite tight. You can then remove the remaining hex bolts and separate them on the bench. Simply support the balancer with a few boards and a few smacks with a dead blow and it will separate.
I own both tools - a miller for seal installation(they were cheap and plentiful on ebay when chrysler dealerships were closing circa 2008) and the cranklock. I have 3/4 drive torque wrench for removing and installing the big bolt. some ppl go 200 ft-lbs or what ever their largest setting +1/4 turn.

I think on peach parts someone simply used a longer torque converter bolt and a spacer to lock it from turning.

Warm the hub up in the oven to 250 F, slide it on the crank snout. Be careful to get the crankshaft key in the hub.


I highly recommend replacing the water pump unless it is very low mileage. It's around 5-6 hrs work and you will have to do 95% of the job over- to do the pump. Can be done with or without the radiator removed.



Michael

 

[gerryvz]

I highly recommend replacing the water pump unless it is very low mileage. It's around 5-6 hrs work and you will have to do 95% of the job over- to do the pump. Can be done with or without the radiator removed.



Michael

Excellent advice, Michael !! Great post ! Thanks.

 

[modzona]

As for torquing the bolt on re-installation, I don't know if they even make a torque wrench that goes up that high. I recall the shop foreman at the dealer telling me that they used to max out their torque wrench and then go another 1/4 or 1/2 turn. I'm sure Klink can tell you.

Torque wrenches goes as high as what you are willing to pay. At work we have one that goes to 1200nm (850ft lb). We use it when we are building steel power line towers. Its around 1.5m long and you have to be two people to max it out. Pain in the ass to use up in the air. I think the price was around 2000$ so its not for the hobby garage.

 

[gsxr]

Jon and Michael covered all the main points. Follow the FSM procedure.

The nuisance is obtaining the 3/4" torque wrench for the 400Nm spec, name-brand units are expensive to buy new, and the local rental place may just rent a Harbor Freight cheapie with questionable calibration history (don't ask how I know). With a new HF wench at ~$80, might be worth buying new, hoping it's calibrated within reason, using it once, and re-selling... at least that way your "rental" is brand new. Ideally you have a friend/relative with a fancy Snap-On or Mac item they'll loan you in exchange for a few beers.

3/4 in. Drive 50-300 ft. lb. Click Torque Wrench

Amazing deals on this 3/4In Dr Click Type Torque Wrench at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

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3/4 in. Drive 150-750 ft. lb. Digital Torque Adapter

Amazing deals on this 3/4In Drive Digital Torque Adapter at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

 

[gerryvz]

My front main crankshaft seal is leaking and needs replacement. I've looked through the service manual and Mercedes calls for installing a special locking tool to prevent the engine from rotating while undoing the main bolt and later retorquing it to the required 400Nm. I looked for info from others that have done this job before and found very little info online for the M119 unfortunately.

I don't have this tool and it costs over $100 to buy new. Not to mention that it requires removal of the starter and left exhaust downpipe, according to the service manual, both of which I'd like to avoid if at all possible.

For those that have replaced this seal before, how do you counterhold the engine while removing the crankshaft bolt? I've done the job on front wheel drive vehicles before, and you can use the starter to break the bolt loose by resting the tool solidly against the frame and "bumping" the starter briefly. Even if you could do that here, there's no way you could torque it back to 400Nm without the engine rotating first.

Ali,

If you are able to score this tool for $100 or so, I'll buy it off of you when you're done with it. Let me know.

Cheers,
Gerry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[samiam44]

When I need the big torque wrench- I found mine on ebay via a local pon shop. It was a snap-on dial which is 50-600 ft-lb and it was in the same price range as what your are listing. It being large and in a case- it's obvious it has seen very little use.
If you do the water pump, I would do some advanced planning and buy new water pump bolts. I would plan on using sealant on all the bolts. About 1/2 will be easily available from a good hardware store, but the rest are going to be MB specific and come from Germany. A few bolts were not shown in the US EPC, but Arnt found them in Euro catalog.

Michael

 

[quicksilver500]

If its anything like doing it on a m104, you want it at TDC when you do the work so the key doesn't fall out. You need to make extra sure if it is keyed you don't knock it into the oil pan. You can watch it with a mirror as you put the flange back on. Also if you hub has a groove on it where it's worn down usually you have to press the seal in deeper otherwise it will just leak again.

-Mike

 

[samiam44]

It's about like doing a 104. The key should be level or positive(not upside down), but orientation doesn't matter that much. You just don't slam it on. You "feel the key and slide". You should naturally visually look at the key and see that it is straight and seated. It should never be up, but I have had cars where for what ever reason it's up and when you slide it on - they key is pushed out.

Seal use to be ~$10.


M

 

[gsxr]

The M119 key is retained by the crank sprocket, IIRC... no worries about it falling out or being dislodged, preventing the hub from seatling properly. This affects the OM60x (or, I presume, M104) but not the M119.

Mike is 100% correct about not putting the new seal in the same location. Ideally it should be 2-3mm offset from the previous location, inspect closely before removal. I mentioned this elsewhere, but to me it seemed the seal was located 1.5mm inset from the surface/lip of the cover, which can make it interesting to obtain the desired offset. Don't forget to clean the hub surface with Scotch-Brite or similar.

Current MSRP on seal p/n 120-997-03-46 is $16 USD, a 20% drop from last year... had been $20 list.

EDIT: Now $40 MSRP as of Jan-2023!

 

[mercedesbenz911]

Thank you all for the excellent and thorough replies! I'll hold off until I have a new water pump and bolts to install at the same time. Gerry, I haven't forgotten about your M104 head bolt tool! (and pin puller tool) Believe it or not, the head is still off the car. I just haven't had time to finish the job. But I'm going to start wrapping it up this week. I'm probably not going to buy the crank holder tool. I'll try the torque converter bolt trick first so I can avoid removing the starter and exhaust. As for pushing the new seal in, I was just going to use a large socket...but I guess it would be prudent to use the proper tool, eh?

 

[gerryvz]

If you are careful, you can use a large socket or other device to press it in. I was very careful doing the rear main seal on my M104 and didn't have any problems. It was nice to be able to have the rear main carrier detached from the motor, to do this. You don't have that luxury with the front crank seal.

Yes, I was going to ping you about getting my tools back.

 

[gsxr]

Given the low cost of the correct seal insertion tool, and the number of hours involved if you had to repeat the job... I'd shell out for the tool. You can always re-sell after you're done. Besides, if you want to inset the new seal +3mm, there's no way to reliably do this without the tool.

BTW - no need to remove the starter to use the factory crank lock, only the exhaust crossover pipe. The lock goes on the driver side of the block, the starter is on the passenger side.

 

[samiam44]

If you don't have a tool- make a gauge. You can use the back end of a caliper to measure 3mm. Work the seal gently.. but it is so stinkin' easy to do it with the tool- just buy one.




Michael

 

[whitehawk]

So which is the correct insertion tool for the front main bearing on a '93 500E? the Miller 9101 or the 9103. I'm finally getting to thinking about doing the water pump and want to be prepared.

Typically, I'd just go to my local indy shop and borrow their M119 flywheel lock tool for the weekend, seeing this is a pretty rare job to do. Jon's method would certainly work in a pinch. The photo below shows the flywheel bolt access panel on an M104, which is similar to where you'd insert the bolt on an M119.

I would always prefer to do the job with the proper flywheel lock, if possible/available.

Yes, I own the Miller 9101 and 9103 front crank seal installers, which are German-made Chrysler Crossfire tools, but directly applicable for the M104 and M119 engines. Let me know if you would like to borrow .. but I need my head bolt socket back first

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[whitehawk]

Well, the Miller 9103 is not the correct tool for the M119. Once I find to find the correct tool I can finish the job. Also a seal extraction tool would be useful. The new seal is mostly in place but I can see that the stainless steel spring ring on the inside of the seal is not positioned in the seal correctly. It will have to come out and be re-seated. Would be nice to do this non-destructively.

 

[gsxr]

D'OH! The 9103 fits some Mercedes diesel engines, and also the M112/M113. This is equivalent to factory tool # 611-589-00-14-00.

The Miller 9101 fits the M119/M120 (also M112/M113?)... the 9101 is shown in my pics in post #7. This is equivalent to factory tool # 119-589-01-14-00. Remember that one side of the tool seats the seal flush with the cover edge, the other side sets it in 3mm deeper.

I missed your post 2 weeks ago, sorry! If you don't have any use for the 9103, you can probably re-sell it on one of the MB forums to someone with a diesel or M112/M113.

 

[whitehawk]

Looking to borrow a Miller 9101. Can send a pre-paid Fedex label and return promptly. Let me know. Thanks! I'm a Patient DIY'er!

 

[gsxr]

FYI - a seller on eBay has four of them, $35 / OBO with free shipping... I'd offer $20 or $25 and see what happens!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111405793612

 

[whitehawk]

I offered $25, then $28. Seller wants $30. With Fedex, I can ship for about $6-7 each way. Just being frugal as I don't expect to need this tool again (of course I could resell it).

 

[mercedesbenz911]

I replaced the front main seal on my M104 fairly easily without any special tools. Locked the torque converter using a longer bolt snugged down with larger nuts used as spacers. Stood up to removing and retorquing the main crank bolt at 370Nm!

Removed the old seal carefully with a screwdriver, being careful not to nick the aluminum timing cover or the crankshaft. Reinstalled the new seal with a large socket and a few light taps with a hammer.

Of course after going through all that trouble I ended up removing the lower timing cover later anyways to replace the timing chain and guides...would've been easier to do off the car. Still, at least I was able to see that it went in straight using the socket method.

 

[gsxr]

Continuation of the valve cover job at this link:

The next part of my 150kmi service was fixing other oil leaks besides the valve covers. The front crank seal had been weeping for years, now was the time to do it. I've noticed the factory position of the seal is usually 1.0-1.5mm inward from the face of the timing cover. The factory seal installer tool either sets the new seal flush, or inward 3mm... this would result in the new seal riding on the hub only ~1.5mm away from the original position.

Despite there being almost no wear on the hub, I set the new seal around 1.2-1.5mm protruding out of the cover. This will have the new seal riding ~3mm away from the original sealing surface. I've done this on several engines and so far, have had zero leak issues afterwards. When doing this job, definitely check the position of the old seal BEFORE replacement. If the old seal is either flush, or set inward 3mm, the seal has likely been replaced in the past.

YMMV, etc. Photos attached below.

 

[liviu165]

I've noticed the factory position of the seal is usually 1.0-1.5mm inward from the face of the timing cover. The factory seal installer tool either sets the new seal flush, or inward 3mm... this would result in the new seal riding on the hub only ~1.5mm away from the original position.

I too avoid having the new seal installed in the exact same location, but instead of going outwards, I install it inwards, just a little bit past the initial location. I have a couple of reasons for doing that: I am aiming for the seal's lips to ride on a new (virgin) surface of the hub (a nice and clean surface that has always been protected from the outside elements by the old seal and therefore the hub's surface roughness is intact) and the entire 8mm of the seal's width is installed.

To achieve the above, I don't push the Miller tool on its entire 3mm travel inward (4th picture), I push it inside to stop the new seal only @ .5-1mm past the position of the initial seal. In my case (see pictures) the initial position of the seal was with its surface flush where the chamfer ends, the new one inward only @ 1mm (last picture).

I will explain this in post 34 of OWNER - OWNER - liviu165 (560SEC & 420SEL) | Owners and Their Cars

 

[luckymike]

It's a real pleasure watching you guys work.

 

[Ertech]

Hi guys was told by my friend mechanic that the Diesel engine seal is of better quality . It is vit-on not rubber .
Is this true?
Thanks

 

[gsxr]

Hi guys was told by my friend mechanic that the Diesel engine seal is of better quality . It is vit-on not rubber .
Is this true?

Pretty sure this is NOT true.

 

[gerryvz]

Not true. The seals are made of the same material.

 

[Ertech]

 

[lowman]

You can lock the engine from turning if you remove the two bolts on the access plate on the bottom of the transmission bell housing and turn the crank clockwise (while facing the engine) until you can see one of the three torque converter bolts. Then, pull out the bolt (see pic) and replaced it with a longer bolt that has a sleeve on it (I used some large nuts too, as spacers). You can get the bolt and sleeve at Ace hardware, but make sure you get the hardest bolt they have.

The last time I checked, the MB crank lock that goes where the starter is was over $300.

Will this be sufficient to lock the flywheel? i mean..it does seem to me that you might running the risk of screwing up the threads in the flywheel by doing this?

 

[emerydc8]

This was a long time ago, but I don’t think I even considered the threads. If I recall I used a jack under the breaker bar because I couldn’t get enough leverage otherwise. It lifted the engine slightly off its mount before the bolt came loose. This method worked for me and it stopped the flywheel from turning. To tighten, I think I just let the bolt and spacer rotate to the passenger side of the bell housing, using the crank bolt to rotate the engine.

BTW, this technique probably won’t work to keep the engine from rotating if you are pressurizing the cylinders with regulated air to keep the valves from dropping during a valve stem seal job, but that’s a different story.

Maybe someone else can chime in If they‘ve had any thread damage Issues. In retrospect I would have looked for the tool. I wasn’t aware that there is another access plate and the starter didn’t have to come out.

 

[winmutt]

You can lock the engine from turning if you remove the two bolts on the access plate on the bottom of the transmission bell housing and turn the crank clockwise (while facing the engine) until you can see one of the three torque converter bolts. Then, pull out the bolt (see pic) and replaced it with a longer bolt that has a sleeve on it (I used some large nuts too, as spacers). You can get the bolt and sleeve at Ace hardware, but make sure you get the hardest bolt they have.

Use a floor jack under a breaker bar to loosen the big 27mm damper bolt. Be careful because this does put some stress on your motor mounts and it's not generally viewed as safe to use a jack and breaker bar in combination. I did this on my 93 400E and it actually lifted the engine up before the bolt finally came loose.

There is a special tool to press in the new crank seal. It is two-sided and one side pushes the seal back further in the event you have running scores. I would bet that GSXR or GVZ has one in his toolbox. I recall using a blow torch to heat up the sleeve so it would easily slide back over the crank on re-installation. You may be able to get away without having the tool but the tool definitely makes it easy.

The last time I checked, the MB crank lock that goes where the starter is was over $300.

As for torquing the bolt on re-installation, I don't know if they even make a torque wrench that goes up that high. I recall the shop foreman at the dealer telling me that they used to max out their torque wrench and then go another 1/4 or 1/2 turn. I'm sure Klink can tell you.

Buyer beware! You can use this trick, I used a M8x1.25 12.9 socket head bolt with a coupler however it cracked the engine case and took a chunk out. Nothing serious but I would recommend using a plate or a rag or something to spread the pressure where the coupler touches the case.

 

[190EVAN]

Pull the starter and use the flywheel lock special tool (116589014000) it’s like $250. Use it for future repairs as it’s a very useful tool or list in on here for a discounted price after the fact and eat a little bit of the cost, chalk it off as rent for the tool.

I get using the torque converter bolt trick if you’re dead broke and want to chance it, but it’s really not worth cracking the oil pan or weakening the torque converters threads.

The special tool comes in handy when torquing the flywheel bolts on as well when you do the rear main seal.

Also I have drawn up an alternative to the Miller 9101 that could be taken to a machinist and have made for a reasonable price. I had mine made out of aluminum and have used it for probably 10 seal installations by now. If anyone wants the PDF, I’m happy to share.