Mercedes, please bring back the 500e.
You brought back the Gullwing, so bring back the 500e.
You brought back the Gullwing, so bring back the 500e.
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MB Bring Back The 500E
- Thread starter Stevester 500E
- Start date
For the first time the other day I passed a lot full of new Mercedes jeeps and pickups.... hideous looking things IMO
As they have already made a model for nearly every taste imaginable... why not ours ?
The closest thing you can get to a 500E is the W212 E63. Squarish design and sharp edges, wide fenders, daily driver that wipes the floor with any ferrari/lambo/porsche in sight.
The closest thing you can get to a 500E is the W212 E63. Squarish design and sharp edges, wide fenders, daily driver that wipes the floor with any ferrari/lambo/porsche in sight.
The 500E is still available new from MB, but it's now badged "E63", and does not have flared fenders. The latter is likely the biggest complaint from any 036 fans (myself included).
The current E63 is so fast, it makes the E500E feel like a 240D in comparison. Pretty sure nobody is complaining about that (well, except 036 owners who test drive an E63).
The current E63 is so fast, it makes the E500E feel like a 240D in comparison. Pretty sure nobody is complaining about that (well, except 036 owners who test drive an E63).
Somewhere, there's a guy with a beard and an anorak wanting to bring back the 240D
And he wants them to bring it back in faded (oxidized) orange and fade(oxidized) yellow.
When driving/owning you won't feel the relation to the M156 (torque curve is not the same and reliability is no where the same).
A biturbo charged E63 is another story, its the effort less power and torque range we are used to. But no matter what they do the instant throttle feel is gone
P.S: how is this for old fashion taste, my E63 is Brown
A biturbo charged E63 is another story, its the effort less power and torque range we are used to. But no matter what they do the instant throttle feel is gone
P.S: how is this for old fashion taste, my E63 is Brown
Ahem.
Attachments
Not buying it.
Far too unrefined. A great hoon-mobile, but it's still just the entry level Merc.
![[deleted]](/forums/data/avatars/m/5/5947.jpg?1552261947){kind=avatar}
I’ll posit that the current E63 is much too powerful, and way too focused on tech to warrant much of a comparison to our beloved .036’s. The C63 is more raw, sure; it’s an AMG! There is a direct tie to Motorsport that Mercedes-Benz never brought to the .036. What it certainly is not, is entry-level. Nor is the base C-class in today’s line-up. We now have a CLA/GLA and an A-Class.
Not trying to sell you. I asked that you change MY mind...
Not trying to sell you. I asked that you change MY mind...
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The 500E was an S/SL hybrid, made to fit the E chassis by Porsche. So, until they bring an E63 with S/SL level appointments, I think “unrefined” is — for lack of a better word — more or less accurate. You’d have to know the cars beyond the keyboard to understand though, as I keep telling people. More people are talking about these cars than have actually experienced them. Some things still have to be experienced.
Otherwise it’s like looking at two women in a picture trying to judge who’s better in bed, for you, when you’re drunk and she’s not, or vice versa — it’s an adolescent exercise.
I’ve lived in the last three EClass chassis, and the owners of all those cars would always rather me drive the S55 when weather permits. Conversely, people would rather ride in the 500E than my M3. The reason is, the M3 is still a 3-series, sort of like the E63 is still an EClass — both are “unrefined” when compared to the SClass level appointments in the 500E and S55.
But to be clear, and to repeat myself yet again, I DO want an E AMG with S/SL level appointments some day, which is sort of how I view the call to “Bring Back the 500E”. Call it the E63sL (L for Luxury). But of course that would be admitting the EClass isn’t quite luxury, which the marketing department will never allow, and for good reason.
maw
Otherwise it’s like looking at two women in a picture trying to judge who’s better in bed, for you, when you’re drunk and she’s not, or vice versa — it’s an adolescent exercise.
I’ve lived in the last three EClass chassis, and the owners of all those cars would always rather me drive the S55 when weather permits. Conversely, people would rather ride in the 500E than my M3. The reason is, the M3 is still a 3-series, sort of like the E63 is still an EClass — both are “unrefined” when compared to the SClass level appointments in the 500E and S55.
But to be clear, and to repeat myself yet again, I DO want an E AMG with S/SL level appointments some day, which is sort of how I view the call to “Bring Back the 500E”. Call it the E63sL (L for Luxury). But of course that would be admitting the EClass isn’t quite luxury, which the marketing department will never allow, and for good reason.
maw
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If you’re implying that I have no real world experience, I manage an AMG Performance Center. There’s not a car I HAVEN’T spent a serious amount of time driving.
Im still having a hard time understanding... is it your suggestion that the E63 would be :::better::: with the SL’s brake package? Further, why the ad hominem attack on the whole thread? I think it’s an interesting topic, which current car best picks up where the E500E leaves off.
Im still having a hard time understanding... is it your suggestion that the E63 would be :::better::: with the SL’s brake package? Further, why the ad hominem attack on the whole thread? I think it’s an interesting topic, which current car best picks up where the E500E leaves off.
There’s no attack.
There’s the primary argument that the E class — all of them except the 500E — lack the S/SL level of appointments, which is a huge differentiator for the 500E.
The second argument is equally factual, that talking about cars one hasn’t driven is a fairly adolescent exercise.
You can take offense if you want, but none was meant. If you’ve spent as much time in AMG cars as you say, you can recognize the truth of both arguments, I’m sure.
I’d agree that the M156 E63 is the current version of the 500E. But it lacks something the 500E had, which was the S/SL level of luxury appointment. And I’m happy to have anyone change my mind.
maw
There’s the primary argument that the E class — all of them except the 500E — lack the S/SL level of appointments, which is a huge differentiator for the 500E.
The second argument is equally factual, that talking about cars one hasn’t driven is a fairly adolescent exercise.
You can take offense if you want, but none was meant. If you’ve spent as much time in AMG cars as you say, you can recognize the truth of both arguments, I’m sure.
I’d agree that the M156 E63 is the current version of the 500E. But it lacks something the 500E had, which was the S/SL level of luxury appointment. And I’m happy to have anyone change my mind.
maw
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You’re arguments are based on an assumption that, different from the levels of performance on the individual chassis’s moving forward year in and year out, that the level of luxury does not. The current C-Class is at least as quiet, easy to drive, and likely as “refined” (at least) as the W124. Your opinion may vary, but in every measurable sense, the current C is a better car than it’s comparable 124. Would I rather drive it than my .036, no. Than any other 124, maybe maybe not. Depends on mood. A C63, any day of the week!
my original statement stands: E63S does, in today’s automotive space, what the 500E did in the ‘90’s. As the state of the art has progressed, the C63 is the closest in comparison.
Sidenote, was it the luxury of the SL that was brought to the 124 chassis with the .036, or was it the SL levels of performance?
my original statement stands: E63S does, in today’s automotive space, what the 500E did in the ‘90’s. As the state of the art has progressed, the C63 is the closest in comparison.
Sidenote, was it the luxury of the SL that was brought to the 124 chassis with the .036, or was it the SL levels of performance?
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Honestly, I think the W212 E550 is closer to the E500 W124 than today's E63. No gimicks, just raw horsepower. If you haven't driven one, especially the 4Matic, I suggest you do. Remarkable car for the money. It doesn't have the flared fenders, but I have met very few people that notice the flared fenders on the E500. Even when I attend a local MB event 9 out of 10 people don't know what an E500 W124 is.
Assuming you're offering up the W204 C63...
Unrefined... like a rental car. Other than the car's reaction to the skinny pedal, there's little to no difference to me between the C63 and the base C-class they give me as a service loaner. The driving dynamics are fine on every example I've driven, but they're all a penalty box inside.
AMG driving school used the C63 for skidpad exercises. For good reason. Never saw them in the track or auto-x rotations. Hoon mobile.
The W204 C63 most certainly is an entry level car. The platform is the bottom rung in the coupe/sedan hierarchy. As is the model within the AMG lineup.
If you like it... great... but it's not a car which I would have ever desired to own. Unlike the 036 and newer E63s.
I specifically offered the 2010 E63, since it's NA powered and styled a bit more traditionally.
No, I’m starting with the assumption that what made the 500E so special wasn’t the performance that you seem to be so focused on. It was the level of comfort behind the wheel in addition to that performance.
Performance is easy. Performance with a luxury fit, finish and feel, no so much. That’s what the 500E did so well, says me.
I’d start with the CL65 seats in the E63. Better leather, diamond pattern, etc. Maybe more wood and less shiny plastic, but that’s more of a today vs yesterday thing.
Like I said, if they came with a luxury package (seats, headliner, door cards, dash, etc.) they’d probably have another blowout winner. Of course it might cannibalize from the S AMG models, coupe, convertible and sedan. But then again maybe not. I’ll take an M156 E63 with a suede headliner, better seats and leather dash, even if it is heavier than the more track focused versions. If I want a track car I’ll buy one.
It’s not so much about the iron fist (yes, the AMG C and E do that just fine) that’s lacking. It’s about the velvet glove that’s lacking, hence the word “refined”.
Or, a “penalty box” if you want another term for it.
maw
Performance is easy. Performance with a luxury fit, finish and feel, no so much. That’s what the 500E did so well, says me.
I’d start with the CL65 seats in the E63. Better leather, diamond pattern, etc. Maybe more wood and less shiny plastic, but that’s more of a today vs yesterday thing.
Like I said, if they came with a luxury package (seats, headliner, door cards, dash, etc.) they’d probably have another blowout winner. Of course it might cannibalize from the S AMG models, coupe, convertible and sedan. But then again maybe not. I’ll take an M156 E63 with a suede headliner, better seats and leather dash, even if it is heavier than the more track focused versions. If I want a track car I’ll buy one.
It’s not so much about the iron fist (yes, the AMG C and E do that just fine) that’s lacking. It’s about the velvet glove that’s lacking, hence the word “refined”.
Or, a “penalty box” if you want another term for it.
maw
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212 550/63 are, in my mind, excellent examples.
OP asks for MB/AMG to do something today. I’m then suggesting 213, and 205 models. I agree the 204 is not refined, and very much below the 124’s fit and finish. The 205, however, is excellent.
If you you haven’t been to an AMG Driving Academy since they were using 204’s, I’d urge you to use your Private Lounge discount to go back and experience the current portfolio of cars!
OP asks for MB/AMG to do something today. I’m then suggesting 213, and 205 models. I agree the 204 is not refined, and very much below the 124’s fit and finish. The 205, however, is excellent.
If you you haven’t been to an AMG Driving Academy since they were using 204’s, I’d urge you to use your Private Lounge discount to go back and experience the current portfolio of cars!
There’s a 2018 sitting in the garage right now. It was the sales managers car, so it’s loaded. It’s nice. It’s not SClass nice. I cannot explain it any clearer. I’m fine with the bi-turbo cars — not interested. I prefer instant power, not “near instant” because... I can tell the difference is why because.
maw
maw
What my adolescent mind was thinking:
A chassis that would be considered over-engineered, whilst adding any new technology that makes a chassis safer.
Newer, updated lines, that would still "resemble" Bruno Sacco lines of the late 80's early 90's.
I would prefer keeping the lines fairly horizontal without that newer upward swoosh effects.
Obviously, a high HP High Torque power plant with a corresponding transmission.
And the best robust interior imaginable, bells and whistles can be included. No fragile breakable parts, no parts that would be fragile and breakable after 10 years of Socal sun damage. Leather everything. Built in Keurig machine.
Maybe even more pronounced fender flares. Bright as hell fog lights. Keep the mono-wiper.
And a young Kelley LeBrock sitting in the passenger seat...
IDK, something like that.
A chassis that would be considered over-engineered, whilst adding any new technology that makes a chassis safer.
Newer, updated lines, that would still "resemble" Bruno Sacco lines of the late 80's early 90's.
I would prefer keeping the lines fairly horizontal without that newer upward swoosh effects.
Obviously, a high HP High Torque power plant with a corresponding transmission.
And the best robust interior imaginable, bells and whistles can be included. No fragile breakable parts, no parts that would be fragile and breakable after 10 years of Socal sun damage. Leather everything. Built in Keurig machine.
Maybe even more pronounced fender flares. Bright as hell fog lights. Keep the mono-wiper.
And a young Kelley LeBrock sitting in the passenger seat...
IDK, something like that.
Yeah I get it... something they don’t make... a refined, luxurious, naturally aspirated, driver focused AMG E Class. That’s certainly what my inner adolescent mind is craving — CL65 seats, pano roof, suede headliner, leather dash and door cards. If they give me that, I can forgive the Jap-car-esque curves and swoops in the sheet metal.
That is, after all, the point of Stevester’s thread...
maw
P.S. I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention some of the earlier CLS 55/63 cars, which came with 4-seater packages and sometimes even a suede headliner (IIRC, I’ve seen one or 2 of these that must have been special order). The dash features a huge hunking side of tree, and the driving dynamics are certainly there. Unfortunately, it’s “curvy” from the outside and it took a while for MB to figure out the styling. What I loved about early AMGs is they seemed not to know who they were making them for, so every car almost got every thing. Now that those markets have differentiated. C vs E vs S, I feel like the differences in appointment level have become too stark. But oh well, these are just thoughts. I’m happy with my picks.
That is, after all, the point of Stevester’s thread...
maw
P.S. I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention some of the earlier CLS 55/63 cars, which came with 4-seater packages and sometimes even a suede headliner (IIRC, I’ve seen one or 2 of these that must have been special order). The dash features a huge hunking side of tree, and the driving dynamics are certainly there. Unfortunately, it’s “curvy” from the outside and it took a while for MB to figure out the styling. What I loved about early AMGs is they seemed not to know who they were making them for, so every car almost got every thing. Now that those markets have differentiated. C vs E vs S, I feel like the differences in appointment level have become too stark. But oh well, these are just thoughts. I’m happy with my picks.
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You specifically stated "Big V8" in your "change my mind" post.
Big V8 = M156
The term "Big" doesn't come to mind with a 4 liter multiturbo engine.
Hence my assumption on the W204.
I'm TOTALLY off the AMG train at this point. Mercedes has facked up their product line so badly that I have less than zero interest in buying a new one ever again. The Mercedes-AMG "43" situation is a clown show.
This is far too long of a conversation for me to get involved in today, but I couldn't fully resist. This rant is an EXTREME compression of my thoughts on this topic. Important exceptions and details abound...
Hmmm, a 212 with 156 motor is close, even great, and the turbo M157 is no deal-breaker either. But for subjective feel and overall behavior, the closest thing to a modern 500E from recent years is SO easy to pick. A 212 with full air suspension (yes, I said that) and M273 NA-V8 is as close as it has ever been. Even the 4-matic one is great, and I hate 4wd in a non-winter necessity driven RWD based car with the fire of ten-thousand suns.
Current production AMG cars as successor to the 124.036? Gag me with a damn Smurf...
There's the newer AMG cars that force one into 4-Matic. That's bad enough, but then consider especially the S-Class V8 cars that do so at the required omission of ABC/MBC? I don't give two shits about them. What a great way to spend far more to get SO much less. All modern AMG (I'm talking actual AMG cars, not the recent badge engineered stuff) offerings also force upon you the abominable wet clutch transmission, which is nothing more than MB/AMG's misguided attempt to make their previously nearly perfect auto-boxes behave like the competition's horrid dual clutch automated-manual whiz bang whatever complications so that the Ritalin generation reviewers on YouTube will think that the AMG transmissions are "cool" too, even though the competition's alternately slippery, banging, and flimsy contraptions were only done because they didn't EVER have any autoboxes that were worth a half pint of cold piss, and/or couldn't handle higher power outputs, and/or had to be adopted from economy car manual transmission concepts due to budget constraints. It's all the wrong things done for all the wrong reasons, probably by the wrong people, and ALL OF IT just to impress the people that DON'T ACTUALLY BUY THE DAMN CARS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Just put the damn torque converter back in them and you will eliminate what most CUSTOMERS THAT ACTUALLY BUY THEM NEW COMPLAIN ABOUT!
Absent from my hatred of most current AMG cars is the GT, which can deliver a deep and satisfying experience in any of it's forms.
SO for me, [deleted] is kinda/sorta correct by default. There's the brittle, bouncing, rattle filled, overly track focused, over-tired, and just generally hyperactive and obnoxious boy-racer C63, and there's the S65 which may as well be available only in a diamond encrusted gold wrap for it's violent rejection of anything that could be conceivably described as elegant. Those are what remain as AMG contenders. Don't bother trying to change my mind...
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Suffice to say, the 500e isn't coming back any times soon.
"Yeah, that's my old green Mercedes taxi looking thing with wide fenders outside-it's paid for.
Bartender, another pint of cold piss please."
"Yeah, that's my old green Mercedes taxi looking thing with wide fenders outside-it's paid for.
Bartender, another pint of cold piss please."
Paid for AND appreciating... Don't forget that.
Yeah, that's comprehensive and accurate. A few years ago I asked the Private Lounge guys about this suspension choice, why the S63 only came with 4Matic while the S65 only came with ABC. I was told that ABC and 4Matic couldn't co-exist because of the ABC hardware, mainly the struts. Damn. So they decided to keep 4Matic and do away with ABC in later, now current versions? Double damn. I believe that hydraulics suspensions is one of the things that Mercedes do absolutely better than anyone, probably since they've been doing it longer (hydraulic windows in the 600, anyone?). And right behind hydraulic suspensions...
Transmissions. There's a reason everyone else uses ZF and Getrag for their transmissions and MB insists on doing their own. Because they're better. Or at least they were. My BMW E46 M3 has over a dozen transmission modes, which is the good news. The bad news is none of them are any good -- except maybe for track hooligans and snapping your neck around. Thanks Getrag. My Audi V8 transmission is great, except that it's been through 3 torque converters. Thanks, ZF. Meanwhile my 722.3 and 722.6 don't age as long as you change the fluid.
So yeah, I'm happy with my MB picks. I basically have 2 500E's, one from the 90s and one from the '00s. After that, they're unobtainium.
maw
There's the newer AMG cars that force one into 4-Matic. That's bad enough, but then consider especially the S-Class V8 cars that do so at the required omission of ABC/MBC? I don't give two shits about them. What a great way to spend far more to get SO much less. All modern AMG (I'm talking actual AMG cars, not the recent badge engineered stuff) offerings also force upon you the abominable wet clutch transmission, which is nothing more than MB/AMG's misguided attempt to make their previously nearly perfect auto-boxes behave like the competition's horrid dual clutch automated-manual whiz bang whatever complications so that the Ritalin generation reviewers on YouTube will think that the AMG transmissions are "cool" too, even though the competition's alternately slippery, banging, and flimsy contraptions were only done because they didn't EVER have any autoboxes that were worth a half pint of cold piss, and/or couldn't handle higher power outputs, and/or had to be adopted from economy car manual transmission concepts due to budget constraints. It's all the wrong things done for all the wrong reasons, probably by the wrong people, and ALL OF IT just to impress the people that DON'T ACTUALLY BUY THE DAMN CARS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Just put the damn torque converter back in them and you will eliminate what most CUSTOMERS THAT ACTUALLY BUY THEM NEW COMPLAIN ABOUT!
Yeah, that's comprehensive and accurate. A few years ago I asked the Private Lounge guys about this suspension choice, why the S63 only came with 4Matic while the S65 only came with ABC. I was told that ABC and 4Matic couldn't co-exist because of the ABC hardware, mainly the struts. Damn. So they decided to keep 4Matic and do away with ABC in later, now current versions? Double damn. I believe that hydraulics suspensions is one of the things that Mercedes do absolutely better than anyone, probably since they've been doing it longer (hydraulic windows in the 600, anyone?). And right behind hydraulic suspensions...
Transmissions. There's a reason everyone else uses ZF and Getrag for their transmissions and MB insists on doing their own. Because they're better. Or at least they were. My BMW E46 M3 has over a dozen transmission modes, which is the good news. The bad news is none of them are any good -- except maybe for track hooligans and snapping your neck around. Thanks Getrag. My Audi V8 transmission is great, except that it's been through 3 torque converters. Thanks, ZF. Meanwhile my 722.3 and 722.6 don't age as long as you change the fluid.
So yeah, I'm happy with my MB picks. I basically have 2 500E's, one from the 90s and one from the '00s. After that, they're unobtainium.
maw
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Maui and Klink gave me the courage to speak up. I share their views but I thought people would assume I’m insane.
When this thread started, my immediate thought was that the spiritual successor to the 036 is my W212 E550 with the NA V8 and Airmatic (which I have as a daily driver). A comfortable gentleman’s cruiser that turns into a bruiser when necessary and a surprisingly good handler too. Before buying it, I test drove a W211 E63 and a C63 but they were just...too much all the time.
I don’t own one so I’m no expert, but it seems like the current AMG cars are designed for attack all the time. The 036 wasn’t like that. It was for the man who has already crushed his enemies. And now he just wants to go wherever he wants, however he wants, without fuss or worry.
When this thread started, my immediate thought was that the spiritual successor to the 036 is my W212 E550 with the NA V8 and Airmatic (which I have as a daily driver). A comfortable gentleman’s cruiser that turns into a bruiser when necessary and a surprisingly good handler too. Before buying it, I test drove a W211 E63 and a C63 but they were just...too much all the time.
I don’t own one so I’m no expert, but it seems like the current AMG cars are designed for attack all the time. The 036 wasn’t like that. It was for the man who has already crushed his enemies. And now he just wants to go wherever he wants, however he wants, without fuss or worry.
I def dont have a dog in this fight and I'm in it more for the hot rodding but the main difference btw those cars mentioned and the 500e is that they will all see the crusher before they are 30 years old due to unavailability and expense of the universe of complex electronic gadget parts required to keep them rolling. So none of them are comparable to a 500e. Modern cars are a joke. Electrics will take over in the next 10 years or so and the only IC models worth keeping will be the ones that have already achieved classic status and are maintainable down the line.
I suspect my 123 and 124 diesels will still be rolling long after the 2018 Lexus in the drive is recycled into fence posts.
87 300TD om606 compound turbo
94 e420
85 300tdt
I suspect my 123 and 124 diesels will still be rolling long after the 2018 Lexus in the drive is recycled into fence posts.
87 300TD om606 compound turbo
94 e420
85 300tdt
Must be a 300, lag on the I4 is horrendous. Lag from the 4L V8 is indiscernible.
When I rode motorcycles, I remember the old timers bitching about Fuel Injection... can’t be fixed on the side of the road, they said. Need a damn computer, they complain.
seems things aren’t gonna stop changing! Well, except our 500E. They’ll never not be exceptional cars.
seems things aren’t gonna stop changing! Well, except our 500E. They’ll never not be exceptional cars.
Well, at least we figured out what “refined” means. I think it’s just me — I didn’t like the TT Porsche 911, Panamera, or S65 either, for the same reason. By the time you get power out of the spoolers, it’s time to apply the brakes.
My larger complaint with that car is the computer assisted transmission, as Klink so perfectly described. It’s either a slow, indecisive slushbox, or it’s jerky and harsh, both of which are computer programs and neither of which represents a program you would choose. And they don’t let you do a manual mode that the computer doesn’t override when it decides to. And who knows when that is or what it’s about. It’s not my car and I don’t care enough to try to make it work for me. It works for whose car it is.
Sort of like my 500E and S55 work for me, and they’re too “old school” and “jumpy” for her.
maw
My larger complaint with that car is the computer assisted transmission, as Klink so perfectly described. It’s either a slow, indecisive slushbox, or it’s jerky and harsh, both of which are computer programs and neither of which represents a program you would choose. And they don’t let you do a manual mode that the computer doesn’t override when it decides to. And who knows when that is or what it’s about. It’s not my car and I don’t care enough to try to make it work for me. It works for whose car it is.
Sort of like my 500E and S55 work for me, and they’re too “old school” and “jumpy” for her.
maw
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I would love Benz to pay homage to the 6.9 but I guess I have a better chance of winning the lotto than that ever happening. Imagine if they drop into the new S Class a turbo charged 6.9 V8...I know technically not the same thing as the 6.9 was normally aspirated, but that would be a thing of beauty IMHO
Or a supercharged version. I would like Klink’s perspective on why the MB Kompressor technology was so abruptly limited. It seemed so successful. Was it heat management, the extra weight and efficiency loss, what? I’d always preferred superchargers to turbos, if we must go to forced induction. It seemed MB agreed, up until they didn’t. The Hot-V technology probably makes this all a moot point though.
maw
maw
My thread was inspired by the fact that Camaro and Mustang lovers have the opportunity to relive their dreams with retro versions of their cars.
Also, inspired by the fact that parts for the .036 are becoming NLA......and just pure adolescent dreaming.
Also, inspired by the fact that parts for the .036 are becoming NLA......and just pure adolescent dreaming.
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This. All this. There are a myriad of driving dynamics reasons why current AMG products are dissimilar to the 500E, but all you need to know is this:
When the 500E / w124 was current, MB in the UK came out with this advertisement. Note the copy of this advertisement:
The long service life ... of a Mercedes-Benz makes it imperative to filter out passing fashions from the design trends of the time ... ensure that it remains contemporary for many years. Long-lasting modernity as opposed to short lived modishness."
The current MB and particularly AMG products today that we are discussing in this thread embody values that are the opposite of the above. Backlit star on the grille. Constellation "thousand dots" grille. Gundam body lines everywhere. Quad tipped exhaust "finishers." Aluminum ultra-bling cheese-grater tweeter grilles in the interior. All this is short lived fashion.
From an industrial design perspective, the closest thing to a w124 500E that come out of Germany today is a Gaggenau oven. Gaggenau ovens are the best built, best performing, and most straightforward styled ovens around. In fact, I'd wager that the previous generation EB290 was even better made than the current ones. But look at the styling - straightforward, simple, robust controls, no unnecessary text --- very Bauhaus. Build Quality for days. The only appliance in the world whose knobs match classic MB hazard switches and headlamp knobs in superior tactile feedback.
Today's MB and AMG products are nice, but, in comparison, they are Wolf / Dacor.
I am not actually a Luddite. I like fuel injection. But I am also a realist. The mission brief for these companies has changed. The vast majority of people who can afford their products get bored every few years and buy something new. They are affluent enough to care more about the marque than the depreciation (witness Range Rover popularity). So there is little reason to support the cars beyond the 10 year point. And as overall complexity increases, the number of unique parts increases, and as more of those parts are electronic, they are less fixable by average enthusiasts, more expensive, and harder to keep in stock.
Over here people lease new Mercs and BMWs for 3 years and send them down the line. That is where the reliability and desirability end.
87 300TD om606 compound turbo
94 e420
85 300tdt
This was all a reaction to federal fleet fuel efficiency standards. Superchargers have too much parasitic drag as compared to turbos, which use heat you were throwing down the tailpipe anyway.
87 300TD om606 compound turbo
94 e420
85 300tdt
Are you going to have sheep (lamb) for dinner? ��
Impossible. Modern cars just don’t match up to the quality and feel of 80’s and 90’s Mercedes.
If they made a 500e now it would be plastic junk with an engine made of chocolate with spaghetti as a timing chain.
Sorry I don’t think much of modern cars. Whether it’s an A class or an SLS, the engineering has gone forever.
The best we can do now is hope they keep supplying us with enough of the essential parts so that we can enjoy our own pieces of history.
If they made a 500e now it would be plastic junk with an engine made of chocolate with spaghetti as a timing chain.
Sorry I don’t think much of modern cars. Whether it’s an A class or an SLS, the engineering has gone forever.
The best we can do now is hope they keep supplying us with enough of the essential parts so that we can enjoy our own pieces of history.
I believe it's possible... but at extreme cost. Imagine someone doing what Singer does for Porsche. Hand-fabricated everything by master craftsmen, from pure unobtanium. You'd end up with an incredible 036, but likely with a pricetag nearing a half-million dollars. There might be buyers for such an animal, but I'm reasonably certain (1) you could count the total on one hand, and (2) they are probably not reading this forum.
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