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MB Quality Discussion (124 vs. 129 vs. 230)

Klink, I thought we were buds and now you're beating up on my SL and adding gasoline to the fire. Oh the humanity of it all.

Don't Wig, Ken!

I love the 230, and I did state that it did not go too far down that cynical "retro" path, but there are hints of it in the interior and I was simply expressing my agreement with maw that I prefer the somewhat more functionalistic aesthetic of the 129 interior. As far as comparing the cars go, overall the 230 makes the 129 seem like a wheelbarrow with a steel wheel, and that's going some, because as I said, I still love the 129 and would happily own one. While we're on the subject, both chassis are trading at prices that make them fantastic bargains, imo, as long as one always remembers Honcho's 5k rule. It applies to both of these chassis, too.
 
Re: It's official, R129 members worse then W126 on BW

What about this picture? Doesn't it make a compelling argument to consider the r129? All warm and fuzzy :hearts:


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Why no comments on this one? Is she someone we know? I love the car, and she's absolutely adorable. The car is even on an old set of Michelin XGTz-4's, which worked remarkably well on that car. And Roy does come up with some awesome old Benzes.
 
You weren't called "Long Duck Dong" back then, by any chance, were you? I think I saw a movie about you back in the '80s....

BTW, does Klinkette know that she's your avatar?

That's not her. The real Klinkette has considerably higher mileage on her, and she makes ME clean her hood star...

:klink:
 
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Don't Wig, Ken!

I love the 230, and I did state that it did not go too far down that cynical "retro" path, but there are hints of it in the interior and I was simply expressing my agreement with maw that I prefer the somewhat more functionalistic aesthetic of the 129 interior. As far as comparing the cars go, overall the 230 makes the 129 seem like a wheelbarrow with a steel wheel, and that's going some, because as I said, I still love the 129 and would happily own one. While we're on the subject, both chassis are trading at prices that make them fantastic bargains, imo, as long as one always remembers Honcho's 5k rule. It applies to both of these chassis, too.

I just thought I'd yank your chain a little. All I can say is my R230 is anatomically correct in every way and it gives the ladies hard titties. Something I can't say about my 500E.
 
I just thought I'd yank your chain a little. All I can say is my R230 is anatomically correct in every way and it gives the ladies hard titties. Something I can't say about my 500E.

So, it also turns the ladies into "Folding Hardtops"?
 
So, it also turns the ladies into "Folding Hardtops"?

Very useful on chilly nights. The next best thing to "stopping short".

To brake suddenly in order to cop a feel while "restraining" your passenger from being thrown forward. "How dare you stop short with my wife?!" - Frank Costanza to Kramer on "Seinfeld"
 
I have been buried lately so I have only had chances to pop on and read posts pretty much when I am placed on hold for a while or on a useless conference call at work. Anyways captruff told me about this thread and given that I had / have both a 230 and 129 (as well as a 124 now) I figured I would chime in on this. Both of mine were / are 600's as I always loved the total absurdity of stuffing a V12 into a roadster. Completely unnecessary but to me that's what makes the 600 variant of the model so cool.

As for the 230 that I no longer have there was no doubt it was one awesome car from a technology standpoint. In addition the M275 V12 with the bi-turbos is just a monster of a engine. To me if you ever wanted to demonstrate the phrase "It pulls like a freight train" to someone that power plant can definitely fill that order and especially in an SL. However that said it was a double edged sword because you could get yourself into a lot of trouble quick with the car if you did not show a lot of restraint (which for me was very tough to do). Anyways I would be lying if I said I did not miss driving that car however at the same time I had a lot of problems with mine even with it only have 13K miles on the odometer when I sold it. Fortunately everything was under warranty and a lot of it was chicken $hit but nevertheless it was a pain in the a$$ to constantly have to be bringing back to the dealer. Maybe / hopefully I worked all the Gremlins out of it before I sold it to the next owner however I definitely would not want to own that car without the warranty.

So now I own a 129 600. The M120 is definitely a significant step down in power from the M275 however at the same time it is definitely no slouch. On a positive note for the M120 to me it is a much more "sexy" engine. That might sound pretty lame to a lot of people but the visual appearance of an engine (or any machine for that matter) is almost like looking at art to me and those two M104's Siamesed together and the long intake runners crisscrossing each other just look so damn cool. It also looks like the quality and workmanship you would expect to see when opening the hood of a car with an original MSRP of $130K +. Anyways the cars themselves are obviously VERY different in almost every way. The 129 drives much heavier than the 230 but to me that is not a bad thing. Even though it's predecessors were know for their light weight (hence the Sport Light designation) those days were long past by its release in 1990 and it "drives like a tank". That's OK with me especially with a V12 under the hood because that feeling is synonymous with Mercedes and what they have always been famous for. The car was built for the Autobahn and is completely at home cruising down the highway at 90 - 100 MPH and on the occasions I get an open stretch of road and jump on it pressing the needle much farther there is absolutely no sense ever that the car is being pushed beyond it's limits. It is unquestionably a pleasure to drive and with a 12 year production run Mercedes had a lot of time to refine that car to make it the best it could absolutely be. As far as appearance goes as they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The 230 definitely has very modern lines and was a radical change from the 129. I do think it is a very good looking car (and definitely much nicer than the current 231) but at the same time I really like the 129 for its simple clean lines of the Bruno Sacco years. I have just grown really fond of the form following function logic where a car looks like a car. I think many designers in recent years have gone over the top making cars now very gaudy with stupid design elements in an attempt to distract people from the reality that they are built with cheap / poor quality materials and inferior engineering. Anyways this post is getting longer than I wanted and this is obviously just my two cents on the discussion. Back to work to pay for this expensive vice...

:nobmw:
 
I have been buried lately so I have only had chances to pop on and read posts pretty much when I am placed on hold for a while or on a useless conference call at work. Anyways captruff told me about this thread and given that I had / have both a 230 and 129 (as well as a 124 now) I figured I would chime in on this. Both of mine were / are 600's as I always loved the total absurdity of stuffing a V12 into a roadster. Completely unnecessary but to me that's what makes the 600 variant of the model so cool.
And hence, why you're known as "600Eric" :)

Thanks for the commentary ! Your 129 is one of the very cleanest ones I've ever seen. R129s continue to be VERY popular in Germany.
 
I have been buried lately so I have only had chances to pop on and read posts pretty much when I am placed on hold for a while or on a useless conference call at work. Anyways captruff told me about this thread and given that I had / have both a 230 and 129 (as well as a 124 now) I figured I would chime in on this. Both of mine were / are 600's as I always loved the total absurdity of stuffing a V12 into a roadster. Completely unnecessary but to me that's what makes the 600 variant of the model so cool.

As for the 230 that I no longer have there was no doubt it was one awesome car from a technology standpoint. In addition the M275 V12 with the bi-turbos is just a monster of a engine. To me if you ever wanted to demonstrate the phrase "It pulls like a freight train" to someone that power plant can definitely fill that order and especially in an SL. However that said it was a double edged sword because you could get yourself into a lot of trouble quick with the car if you did not show a lot of restraint (which for me was very tough to do). Anyways I would be lying if I said I did not miss driving that car however at the same time I had a lot of problems with mine even with it only have 13K miles on the odometer when I sold it. Fortunately everything was under warranty and a lot of it was chicken $hit but nevertheless it was a pain in the a$$ to constantly have to be bringing back to the dealer. Maybe / hopefully I worked all the Gremlins out of it before I sold it to the next owner however I definitely would not want to own that car without the warranty.

So now I own a 129 600. The M120 is definitely a significant step down in power from the M275 however at the same time it is definitely no slouch. On a positive note for the M120 to me it is a much more "sexy" engine. That might sound pretty lame to a lot of people but the visual appearance of an engine (or any machine for that matter) is almost like looking at art to me and those two M104's Siamesed together and the long intake runners crisscrossing each other just look so damn cool. It also looks like the quality and workmanship you would expect to see when opening the hood of a car with an original MSRP of $130K +. Anyways the cars themselves are obviously VERY different in almost every way. The 129 drives much heavier than the 230 but to me that is not a bad thing. Even though it's predecessors were know for their light weight (hence the Sport Light designation) those days were long past by its release in 1990 and it "drives like a tank". That's OK with me especially with a V12 under the hood because that feeling is synonymous with Mercedes and what they have always been famous for. The car was built for the Autobahn and is completely at home cruising down the highway at 90 - 100 MPH and on the occasions I get an open stretch of road and jump on it pressing the needle much farther there is absolutely no sense ever that the car is being pushed beyond it's limits. It is unquestionably a pleasure to drive and with a 12 year production run Mercedes had a lot of time to refine that car to make it the best it could absolutely be. As far as appearance goes as they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The 230 definitely has very modern lines and was a radical change from the 129. I do think it is a very good looking car (and definitely much nicer than the current 231) but at the same time I really like the 129 for its simple clean lines of the Bruno Sacco years. I have just grown really fond of the form following function logic where a car looks like a car. I think many designers in recent years have gone over the top making cars now very gaudy with stupid design elements in an attempt to distract people from the reality that they are built with cheap / poor quality materials and inferior engineering. Anyways this post is getting longer than I wanted and this is obviously just my two cents on the discussion. Back to work to pay for this expensive vice...

:nobmw:

Great to hear your perspective. Sometimes I'll read a post and think, "Wow, this guy has every aspect of this absolutely nailed!" For me, this is one of those. And no, ownership experience alone will not produce one of those.

And I share your love of the M120. If I had to pick one, it is my favorite MB engine. I absolutely do pick it as my favorite production MB engine to look at, ever!

As far as general aesthetics go, the era that yielded the 201, 124, 129, 140 has been the absolute high water mark to me so far. I absolutely despise contrivance, and those cars, the 129 and 140 in particular were so free of it. I loved how those courageous and confident MB designers of that era had the "attachments" and integrity to permit their car to look like a car. I love how they didn't permit themselves to be goaded into making their products appear "special", "sporty", or "exclusive". They were so much more of all of those things where appropriate, precisely because they didn't work at it.

:klink:
 
My only complaint about the R230 is that the torque peaks out too early. The car feels great off the line but once you get up to about 2800 rpm it pretty much levels out and gradually declines. If you punch the car at cruising speed it really does not respond the way I would like it to. It's a bit of an old man's sports car. You have to work at it to get that feel again at cruising speed. The last sports car I owned was a 2005 Corvette LS2 that I promptly replaced the cam, installed American Racing Headers, cold air intake, 4:10 racing rearend, iForged wheels, Brembo brakes and custom tune. All of which was done for about $16,000. The car was a beast at any speed. If you punched that car at any speed it was on the edge of controllability. I loved that "on the edge" feel. I am not hard on my cars but when you give it the gas you expect a certain response. I made one fatal error with that car. My wife was laid off of her very well paying job of 25 years after the company was sold to a fortune 500 company. Assuming she would easily find another job I told her I would sell the Vette if she did not find another job within two months. Well, that didn't work out so well and I will never do that again.

I wish the R230 were as easy to modify and upgrade as the LS. You can get headers but at $5,000 it just isn't worth it. The R230 interior is light years ahead of the Vette but the seat of your pants feel is no where near the feel the Vette had. As for reliability the Vette was never, ever in the shop for warranty work (which would have been voided anyway). My R230 has been equally as reliable. I love the exhaust growl of the R230. It has that european super car sound. I also love the ABC suspension, yes you heard that right, I love the ABC suspension. You can raise and lower the car with the push of button and it loves the twisties. The cliche "It feels like its on rails" is true with this car. I find the lines of the car to be incredibly sexy and the other cliche "It looks like it's going a 100 mph when its standing still" also holds true. I've only owned the R230 for one year. It had 36,000 miles on it when I bought it and I've put a mere 2,200 miles on it since, but so far, the only work has been routine maintenance. Based on my experiences with the R230 I would not hesitate to buy another one or recommend the car to any one else. I would probably opt for the 55 or 600 if I bought another. Like any Mercedes you have to pay to play. I would equally say the same for the Vette, just don't expect it to feel as refined but if you enjoy driving on the edge it's a great automobile.

I have been eyeballing a 2007 CLK63 for sale locally for a couple months. I find the CLK to be more of "chicks" car, but man, that big block is calling me. I just might have to go give it a test drive.
 
I have been eyeballing a 2007 CLK63 for sale locally for a couple months. I find the CLK to be more of "chicks" car, but man, that big block is calling me. I just might have to go give it a test drive.


There were also two non"girly" versions of this.

The CLK DTM cabriolet, although not sure if any were brought into the US. Then the clk63 BS, but non cabriolet.
 
The clk63 black series is available, as a coupe only though. But man.. its a hardcore vehicle. If i said the c63 has a ride like you're sitting on the pavement, then the clk63BS is like ridding on bumpy pavement! Strictly a track use toy imho.
 
There were also two non"girly" versions of this.

The CLK DTM cabriolet, although not sure if any were brought into the US. Then the clk63 BS, but non cabriolet.

Each of those is 100% Hoon and 0% Poon, however that it both what's good and what's bad about them.
 
The clk63 black series is available, as a coupe only though. But man.. its a hardcore vehicle. If i said the c63 has a ride like you're sitting on the pavement, then the clk63BS is like ridding on bumpy pavement! Strictly a track use toy imho.

Indeed. Every "Black Series" is strictly a track toy. That doesn't stop some customers from trying to use them on the street, with predictably dismal and expensive results (snap, crackle, pop...)
:spend:
 
My only complaint about the R230 is that the torque peaks out too early. The car feels great off the line but once you get up to about 2800 rpm it pretty much levels out and gradually declines. If you punch the car at cruising speed it really does not respond the way I would like it to. It's a bit of an old man's sports car. You have to work at it to get that feel again at cruising speed. The last sports car I owned was a 2005 Corvette LS2 that I promptly replaced the cam, installed American Racing Headers, cold air intake, 4:10 racing rearend, iForged wheels, Brembo brakes and custom tune. All of which was done for about $16,000. The car was a beast at any speed. If you punched that car at any speed it was on the edge of controllability. I loved that "on the edge" feel. I am not hard on my cars but when you give it the gas you expect a certain response. .........

I wish the R230 were as easy to modify and upgrade as the LS.

When was the last time you did an ECU reset ???

If after that it does not feel just a bit better then you need a SL55 and this is most likely the case.
.
 
I'm old school, the M120 does look good, but the M100 is a mans engine

I'll take a W109 300SEL 6.3 over any M120 car. Having driven all of them.


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I'm old school, the M120 does look good, but the M100 is a mans engine

I'll take a W109 300SEL 6.3 over any M120 car. Having driven all of them.

Well, if I had to pick a second place to look at, it's that one for sure. Been there, owned that (in a 109), and in M100 group just to try to stay in the loop. Absolutely, that under hood view was a primary motivation. It is magnificent. Thanks for the fantastic picture, Clark.
 
Yep. I owned nice low miles 6.3 & 6.9 together. Difficult decision as to what to drive to work each day. 6.9 a bit more practical. But 6.3 hella more fun !!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I haven't undertaken a 6.3 yet, but it's certainly on the list. And yeah, when I saw an underwood picture of the AMG "Red Pig"' that ate up the 24 Hours of Spa back in the day, I was sold.
 
I'm old school, the M120 does look good, but the M100 is a mans engine

I'll take a W109 300SEL 6.3 over any M120 car. Having driven all of them.


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That's not an engine bay - that's a work of art. I can't see someone owning that and not grabbing their hanky to polish this-or-that every time someone opens the hood!!
 
For a gear head like most of us, that is art.

True German engineering.

Enjoy :)

A few views of the exterior and interior of my (former) 6.3. It had 55,000 original miles on it at this time.

IMG_0011.JPG IMG_0016.JPG IMG_0018.JPG IMG_0019.JPG IMG_0020.JPG IMG_0021.JPG IMG_0024.JPG IMG_0025.JPG IMG_0033.JPG


Parked outside of my former home in NE Portland's Irvington District.
IMG_0034.JPG


At the start of the Monte Shelton NW Classic Car Rally, in 2003. And on the rally at the Oregon Coast in & near the town of Newport. That's the Yaquina Bay Bridge in the background of the last photo.
IMG_0504.JPG IMG_0526.JPG IMG_0550.JPGIMG_0551.JPG

Cheers,
Gerry
 
That's not an engine bay - that's a work of art. I can't see someone owning that and not grabbing their hanky to polish this-or-that every time someone opens the hood!!
This 6.3 engine bay is definitely not stock...it's been heavily worked-over and re-arranged. That York A/C compressor is in a different spot (and on its side), and the relays are not in the normal spot where they're supposed to be on the driver's side. The expansion tank is not a 6.3 item, either. Radiator is a very different and larger item from the standard 6.3 radiator.

That's also a Grand 600 air suspension ("luftfederung") compressor on the driver's side .. you can tell by the height of the fins on the top of the compressor head.
 
This 6.3 engine bay is definitely not stock...it's been heavily worked-over and re-arranged. That York A/C compressor is in a different spot (and on its side), and the relays are not in the normal spot where they're supposed to be on the driver's side. The expansion tank is not a 6.3 item, either. Radiator is a very different and larger item from the standard 6.3 radiator.

That's also a Grand 600 air suspension ("luftfederung") compressor on the driver's side .. you can tell by the height of the fins on the top of the compressor head.

That's a W 100 car, Honch. I'll be back to check out your 109.018 photos later, looking forward to it!
 
Ahhh, ok then that makes much more sense. I was thinking it was a W109.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Enjoy :)

A few views of the exterior and interior of my (former) 6.3.

Cheers,
Gerry

Sweet! What a great combination of colors, the Makassar, the rear headrests!!!, the cocoa mats... Just damn! I love everything about it. What were you using for shoes? I'm vaguely remembering some now discontinued Sumitomo's that were available in appropriate sizes with such a tread...

Post some of that "other" 036. ! :drool5:
 
Klink,

I am been contemplating an R129 purchase for the past year. Based on your experience and personal preference would you mind listing your top three favourite models?

I was leaning towards a simple (and bargain-basement) 90-92 500SL or a 96-97 SL500 with the M119+5spd combo. The V12 models are very appealing but maybe more of a maintenance cost gamble than I am wanting to take on.

Surely these cars are every bit as well made as my .036?
 
Klink,

I am been contemplating an R129 purchase for the past year. Based on your experience and personal preference would you mind listing your top three favourite models?

I was leaning towards a simple (and bargain-basement) 90-92 500SL or a 96-97 SL500 with the M119+5spd combo. The V12 models are very appealing but maybe more of a maintenance cost gamble than I am wanting to take on.

Surely these cars are every bit as well made as my .036?

The 129s are tanks. They are essentially 124 architecture. There really isn't a bad one in the bunch, at least not when comparing them to the kind of cars that you're already used to. Based on what you've already told me, I kind of like what you've already pre-picked. To what you've already said, I'll add the following: The '90-'92 model year cars with the mechanical injection are kind of zingy, happy motors. I really like the response of a sorted KE equipped M119, and that's easy to experience becuase they aren't hard to sort, seldom need sorting, and then they stay sorted. They were, and they remain underappreciated, IMO, and they can be bought for pocket lint these days. I love traction controls, so I'd prefer a '91 or '92 with ASR. Note that carefully if that's important to you in either direction. No USA version '90 will have it. I don't remember if it "phased in" during the '91 model year, or if all '91's have it, so note care fully and shop according to you're preference.


Remember that the '98 also still has the M119, if it must be a 119, and you are right in your model year picks as the Bosch DME engine management system avoids all of the PITA repair possibilities that the LH engines have. One thing to be aware of on the 96-97s: that was the first couple of model years of the 5 speed electronically controlled transmission, and they had a couple of possible lurking mechanical issues, then again, I'd bet that all but very low mileage cars likely have been repaired by now, anyway. Like the prior 4 speed units these 5 speeds are serviceable and repairable. If it shifts smoothly, particularly on coasting downshifts, then you are probably in the clear. If it feels like the motor is rough, and / or like the front shocks are weak, it's likely collapsed or broken motor mounts.

If you are open to cars without the M119, the cars with the 3.2 liter M104 are happy. The combo works for me, and they all have the benefit of 5 speeds, the '97 having the newer electronically controlled version (the V-8's and 12's got it in '96).

If you push them really hard, then the USA V8's will benefit from the exact same brake upsizes that can be done to the E5E. The 6 cylinder cars won't likely need them, however the same mods could be done on them as well.

If your mind and wallet are open to it, consider the '99. It has all the benefits of the '96 on V8's with 60-100 pounds less weight in the front end AND it already has superb brakes, with lower unsprung weight, and stamina, as they are dimensionally identical to the SA brakes that so many like to put on the E5E. They just plain drive better. Pay little attention to the naysayers. The M113 may look like crap, have a few less HP, and be assembled by robots using wood screws, but it is has a nice flat torque plateau (it hardly qualifies as a "curve"), is as durable over time as a M119, burns way less gas in the real world, and has less go wrong with it than even a late M119, and those already didn't have much going wrong.

If you are considering any thing '98 or later, let me know because there are a couple of things to consider there regarding engine oil changes, etc. That was the first year of the extended oil intervals in the US. Not the end of the word that so many imagine, but still a couple of things to look out for...

Best!

:klink:

What are your thoughts?
 
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That's a W 100 car, Honch. I'll be back to check out your 109.018 photos later, looking forward to it!

Ahhh, ok then that makes much more sense. I was thinking it was a W109.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, that is a 600.

It was the nicest M100 image I found online.

Doesn't change the fact that the M100 is an engineering marvel.

And that engine compartment presents very well.
 
Sweet! What a great combination of colors, the Makassar, the rear headrests!!!, the cocoa mats... Just damn! I love everything about it. What were you using for shoes? I'm vaguely remembering some now discontinued Sumitomo's that were available in appropriate sizes with such a tread...

Post some of that "other" 036. ! :drool5:
Yeah my car was a late 1969 model, so it still had a lot of the "early" features along with some of the later ones ... made in July 1969. No smog crap, as evidenced by the vacuum advance on the distributor and the vac line to the throttle body. Later cars removed the vac advance. The Macassar Ebony wood and leather were almost perfect due to the fact that the car was a Portland car that had lived a good part of its life in San Luis Obispo area, in an underground garage. So it saw VERY little sun during its lifetime.

The tires were Yokohamas, actually. I added the rear headrests - they did not come with the car, cocomats were also a GVZ add as was the Becker short-wave adapter slung under-dash. I also added a Becker Mexico Cassette unit to replace the stock Europa.

As nice as that 6.3 was, and fun to drive .. it was no E5E. When I bought my E5er, I took my good friend Dan Smith out for a drive. He owned six or seven 6.3s (a couple of them in the attached photo, from a geek-out session we had in Oregon back in the day) and he commented, as I was driving him at 140 MPH on the Willamette Valley farm roads just north of McMinnville, Oregon on a Sunday morning, that my E5er at 140 MPH felt just like a 6.3 at 80 MPH. He could not believe were going so fast, so effortlessly.

The cars in the attached photo were two of Dan's nicer cars, the "Green Hornet" (foreground) and the "Silver Bullet" in the background. Both were fully 100% restored by MBI Motors, in Portland.

Cheers,
Gerry
 

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The 129s are tanks. They are essentially 124 architecture. There really isn't a bad one in the bunch, at least not when comparing them to the kind of cars that you're already used to. Based on what you've already told me, I kind of like what you've already pre-picked. To what you've already said, I'll add the following: The '90-'92 model year cars with the mechanical injection are kind of zingy, happy motors. I really like the response of a sorted KE equipped M119, and that's easy to experience becuase they aren't hard to sort, seldom need sorting, and then they stay sorted. They were, and they remain underappreciated, IMO, and they can be bought for pocket lint these days. I love traction controls, so I'd prefer a '91 or '92 with ASR. Note that carefully if that's important to you in either direction. No USA version '90 will have it. I don't remember if it "phased in" during the '91 model year, or if all '91's have it, so note care fully and shop according to you're preference.
Remember that the '98 also still has the M119, if it must be a 119, and you are right in your model year picks as the Bosch DME engine management system avoids all of the PITA repair possibilities that the LH engines have. One thing to be aware of on the 96-97s: that was the first couple of model years of the 5 speed electronically controlled transmission, and they had a couple of possible lurking mechanical issues, then again, I'd bet that all but very low mileage cars likely have been repaired by now, anyway. Like the prior 4 speed units these 5 speeds are serviceable and repairable. If it shifts smoothly, particularly on coasting downshifts, then you are probably in the clear. If it feels like the motor is rough, and / or like the front shocks are weak, it's likely collapsed or broken motor mounts. If you are open to cars without the M119, the cars with the 3.2 liter M104 are happy. The combo works for me, and they all have the benefit of 5 speeds, the '97 having the newer electronically controlled version (the V-8's and 12's got it in '96). If you push them really hard, then the USA V8's will benefit from the exact same brake upsizes that can be done to the E5E. The 6 cylinder cars won't likely need them, however the same mods could be done on them as well. If your mind and wallet are open to it, consider the '99. It has all the benefits of the '96 on V8's with 60-100 pounds less weight in the front end AND it already has superb brakes, with lower unsprung weight, and stamina, as they are dimensionally identical to the SA brakes that so many like to put on the E5E. They just plain drive better, and pay no attention to the naysayers. The M113 may look like crap, have a few less HP, and be assembled by robots using wood screws, but it is has a nice flat torque plateau (it hardly qualifies as a "curve"), is as durable over time as a M119, burns way less gas in the real world, and has less go wrong with it than even a late M119, and those already didn't have much going wrong. What are your thoughts?
Dang, these Klinkrants get ever better.....
 
Yep. I owned nice low miles 6.3 & 6.9 together. Difficult decision as to what to drive to work each day. 6.9 a bit more practical. But 6.3 hella more fun !!!


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Any further words or pics about your 6.9 experience?

It has looong been on my list, but have not gone further to fulfill it in the last 25yrs.. Partly due to my germany delivered 1980 450sel, no emissions etc. It runs raw and powerful, you can feel the torque of the v8 in that one.. Last time I rode a friends California spec 1979 6.9, it failed to excite me further. Felt more like a cadillac barge.. (he likes my 450sel better too)

I still do think i'd want to own one sometime down the line. Everytime I see an ad for a lower mile one, i ponder.

Regards and thanks.
 
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Any further words or pics about your 6.9 experience?

It has looong been on my list, but have not gone further to fulfill it in the last 25yrs.. Partly due to my germany delivered 1980 450sel, no emissions etc. It runs raw and powerful, you can feel the torque of the v8 in that one.. Last time I rode a friends California spec 1979 6.9, it failed to excite me further. Felt more like a cadillac barge.. (he likes my 450sel better too)

I still do think i'd want to own one sometime down the line. Everytime I see an ad for a lower mile one, i ponder.

Regards and thanks.

An ECE spec 450SEL ! :drool5: Tell me more sometime!
 
I wondered about that compressor. I hoping to get my 6.3 running as soon as it cools off. I ended up buying that burn damaged euro 6.3 that was posted on this site (thanks to whomever posted it). That car was in amazing pre fire condition and everything under the hood of that car looks brands spanking new.

The goal is to drop the engine out from underneath and stick it in my other 69 Euro. Air bags, brakes, engine mounts, motor and tranny will get transferred in one go hopefully which seems like the smartest way to do it given how much of a pain in the they are when bolted up.
 
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