MB Star C4 DOIP WiFi Diagnostics

[DarkHelmet]

I was thinking of getting the a clone of the MB Star C4 DOIP WiFi Diagnostic for my 2002 SL500..

I like that it connects via WiFi or Ethernet, essentially something other than serial 25 pin.

I might try to just get the multiplexer and cables and source the rest (software) by using a virtual machine or purchasing my own computer and getting all the software via the web.

I think the 2002 SL500 will only use or at least need HHT-Win, which from my understanding is 32bit only? Or is there a newer recompile that runs on 64bit? I thought I read something about pre 2016 software requiring XP?

So, would it be possible to run the MB Star C4 DOIP from a more modern computer via Ethernet or WiFi? If I got the latest version of the software, would I be able to run it from Windows 10/11?

Thanks

 

[gsxr]

I was thinking of getting the a clone of the MB Star C4 DOIP WiFi Diagnostic for my 2002 SL500..

I like that it connects via WiFi or Ethernet, essentially something other than serial 25 pin.

The WiFi connection is convenient for sure, and generally works ok. The Ethernet cable is nice if there's any wireless issues.

I might try to just get the multiplexer and cables and source the rest (software) by using a virtual machine or purchasing my own computer and getting all the software via the web.

I'd love to find a virus-free SDS/DAS/Xentry software install package, but I lack the patience to dig through the dumpster fire known as MHH Auto.

I think the 2002 SL500 will only use or at least need HHT-Win...

Yes, you need HHT-WIN support.

... which from my understanding is 32bit only? Or is there a newer recompile that runs on 64bit? I thought I read something about pre 2016 software requiring XP?

There's some useful threads on (shudder) BenzWorld about this topic. Yes, it's a 32-bit program. I don't know if anyone has recompiled to make it run on 64 bit, but many / most of the newer Xentry software installs are running Windows 10, and I believe they are 64-bit installs? However I'm not certain. Maybe they are Win 10 installs, 32-bit. For a long time only XP images were available.

So, would it be possible to run the MB Star C4 DOIP from a more modern computer via Ethernet or WiFi? If I got the latest version of the software, would I be able to run it from Windows 10/11?

Great questions. I'm not sure. Really curious what you find out here. I'm still using an old C4 with a Dell D630, XP, and a spinny HDD that is slower than molasses in January - in Canada.

 

[DarkHelmet]

I am having trouble understanding HHT-Win. It sounds like it launches from Xentry / DAS, and then communicates with the multiplexer directly. If the multiplexer is a newer C4 DOIP WiFi, then I question how HHT would be able to talk to it, since it seems you connect the computer to the C4 using WiFi/Ethernet. Can the latest C4 DOIP WiFi multiplexer also connect/hardwire to the computer using a serial port? It's hard to tell in pictures if there is a serial port to connect to computer. Unless Xentry/DAS create a virtual emulator and relay the data to HHT-Win -- seems doubtful.

I did find a HHT-Win that was recompiled for 64 bit. Well, in reality the 32bit libraries were switched to 64bit. I can post the link to another forum, if that is allowed. Looks like it is a WINE emulator issue, and someone replaced the 32bit libraries with 64 bit and it seems to work. I have not messed with WINE myself. I wish I could play with this stuff in a VM without having to get the multiplexer.. Might make it clearer for me.

 

[gsxr]

I am having trouble understanding HHT-Win. It sounds like it launches from Xentry / DAS, and then communicates with the multiplexer directly.

Correct - you normally start with DAS (possibly Xentry, with newer software versions) and after selecting R129, it will launch HHT-Win separately. Per the BW thread (required reading, if you haven't seen it yet) apparently there are some options/switches/flags at the end of the DOS command, these are needed to get the proper R129 menu for HHT-Win.

If the multiplexer is a newer C4 DOIP WiFi, then I question how HHT would be able to talk to it, since it seems you connect the computer to the C4 using WiFi/Ethernet. Can the latest C4 DOIP WiFi multiplexer also connect/hardwire to the computer using a serial port? It's hard to tell in pictures if there is a serial port to connect to computer. Unless Xentry/DAS create a virtual emulator and relay the data to HHT-Win -- seems doubtful.

WiFi just gets the laptop software (DAS, HHT-Win, whatever) communicating with the MUX. The data transfer method is irrelevant (WiFi, Ethernet cable, or serial cable).

I did find a HHT-Win that was recompiled for 64 bit. Well, in reality the 32bit libraries were switched to 64bit. I can post the link to another forum, if that is allowed.

Absolutely - there is no censorship on this forum related to other forums! Post away. (Gotta love PeachParts / Pelican that asterisks out any site they don't want people going to, like 500Eboard.co for example which shows as ********* over there. )

 

[R129 UK]

I'm still using an old C4 with a Dell D630, XP, and a spinny HDD that is slower than molasses in January - in Canada.

I have the same laptop as you but running it with an SSD which boots in a few seconds so I can certainly recommend doing this is you want better performance.

Maybe combine with a later version of the software too which is what I am contemplating?

 

[DarkHelmet]

Correct - you normally start with DAS (possibly Xentry, with newer software versions) and after selecting R129, it will launch HHT-Win separately. Per the BW thread (required reading, if you haven't seen it yet) apparently there are some options/switches/flags at the end of the DOS command, these are needed to get the proper R129 menu for HHT-Win.

ya I saw that.. I need to play with it, but it is hard to make the initial purchase when there is no consistency among the "products".

Absolutely - there is no censorship on this forum related to other forums! Post away. (Gotta love PeachParts / Pelican that asterisks out any site they don't want people going to, like 500Eboard.co for example which shows as ********* over there. )

The site is autogmt dot com (link). I've already got two strikes against me, one because they didn't like that I use a custom domain for my mail server (which allows me to use custom email addresses) so they they banned it. The next strike was that I asked a question that they claim has been answered, and thus deleted the post.

This is one of those sites that you have to get a number of thumbs ups and likes before you can access everything. They seem really serious on cutting down on any frivolous chit chat.

But, I did post in the "Place for your first Post" yesterday at 15:43, my user id is obvious if you like spaceballs or pizza. Please give me thumbs up and DM me here with your id and I will follow you on the site.

 

[gsxr]

I have the same laptop as you but running it with an SSD which boots in a few seconds so I can certainly recommend doing this is you want better performance.

Maybe combine with a later version of the software too which is what I am contemplating?

The softwarez have license keys which are tied to a specific hardware configuration. Cloning the HDD to a nice fast SSD seems to work fine at first, because the laptop will boot to Windows without any problems, but DAS/Xentry will fail to launch because the license key is now invalid.

So, you can't easily upgrade to SSD without either the original keygen, or in the case of some installations, a specific file that enables the software to work. It's copy protection stuff by the Chinese sellers of these systems. Which is why I'd like to obtain the full installers with keygens, so I can install a fresh copy onto a new SSD.

 

[mike52787]

The softwarez have license keys which are tied to a specific hardware configuration. Cloning the HDD to a nice fast SSD seems to work fine at first, because the laptop will boot to Windows without any problems, but DAS/Xentry will fail to launch because the license key is now invalid.

So, you can't easily upgrade to SSD without either the original keygen, or in the case of some installations, a specific file that enables the software to work. It's copy protection stuff by the Chinese sellers of these systems. Which is why I'd like to obtain the full installers with keygens, so I can install a fresh copy onto a new SSD.

The fine folks in china that sold me my xentry drive just so happened to leave the program to create the keys... if you need a copy of the program i'm happy to send it your way. I cloned mine to a ssd right away, much better experience

 

[gsxr]

The fine folks in china that sold me my xentry drive just so happened to leave the program to create the keys... if you need a copy of the program i'm happy to send it your way. I cloned mine to a ssd right away, much better experience

Cool! What is the name / filename of the keygen, and can you post a photo of what it looks like? I actually have a couple of keygens but they don't seem to work for everything (i.e., provide EPC and WIS keys, but do not generate DAS keys). And, a second laptop I have uses a separate copy protection of some sort which doesn't seem to be license key related (i.e., can't just create a new key to make it work). Grrrr.

 

[mike52787]

Cool! What is the name / filename of the keygen, and can you post a photo of what it looks like? I actually have a couple of keygens but they don't seem to work for everything (i.e., provide EPC and WIS keys, but do not generate DAS keys). And, a second laptop I have uses a separate copy protection of some sort which doesn't seem to be license key related (i.e., can't just create a new key to make it work). Grrrr.

Absolutely! It's called xentry developer, I attatched a pic of the UI. It generates das keys. you just put in your hardware id from startkeycenter and the desired start and end dates for the license. works great.

 

[R129 UK]

The softwarez have license keys which are tied to a specific hardware configuration. Cloning the HDD to a nice fast SSD seems to work fine at first, because the laptop will boot to Windows without any problems, but DAS/Xentry will fail to launch because the license key is now invalid.

So, you can't easily upgrade to SSD without either the original keygen, or in the case of some installations, a specific file that enables the software to work. It's copy protection stuff by the Chinese sellers of these systems. Which is why I'd like to obtain the full installers with keygens, so I can install a fresh copy onto a new SSD.

I wasn't suggesting you clone, rather a new drive with later software, interested to hear if the license key generator mentioned above is a reliable solution.

 

[DarkHelmet]

Which is why I'd like to obtain the full installers with keygens, so I can install a fresh copy onto a new SSD.

I can't help you with a keygen, but if you go to maverickdiagnostics.com, click blog, then click software updates, I think it has part of what you want.
But a keygen alone may not fully do the trick. I suspect this stuff phones home, and you need an MB account. The Chinese stuff might be doing keygen and a crack to prevent the MB account requirement. (Older versions may not require a MB account)

But let me know if it works fully or partially..

 

[DarkHelmet]

Cool! What is the name / filename of the keygen, and can you post a photo of what it looks like? I actually have a couple of keygens but they don't seem to work for everything (i.e., provide EPC and WIS keys, but do not generate DAS keys). And, a second laptop I have uses a separate copy protection of some sort which doesn't seem to be license key related (i.e., can't just create a new key to make it work). Grrrr.

I wonder what ChatGPT would say about the keygens and how the protection is architected?

 

[gsxr]

I wasn't suggesting you clone, rather a new drive with later software, interested to hear if the license key generator mentioned above is a reliable solution.

Yes - this is what I'd prefer, if I could get a known-good, virus-free installer that included HHT-Win. However, I also need an "old" installer meant for the Dell D630 with serial port.

 

[gsxr]

But a keygen alone may not fully do the trick. I suspect this stuff phones home, and you need an MB account.

Genuine MB setups do indeed phone home. Allegedly, connecting a genuine setup to the internet can brick a genuine MUX if it's flagged as a rouge unit.

The Chinese stuff might be doing keygen and a crack to prevent the MB account requirement. (Older versions may not require a MB account)

Exactly. Chinese software installs use either a keygen, or in some cases (as on 1 of my laptops), keygen AND crack file. The original seller would provide the crack file after the buyer provide a hardware ID of some sort. But years later after the unit has changed hands, there's no way to contact the original, unknown seller.

 

[gsxr]

Absolutely! It's called xentry developer, I attatched a pic of the UI. It generates das keys. you just put in your hardware id from startkeycenter and the desired start and end dates for the license. works great.

Thanks! I'll need to check my installs and see if I have that particular keygen...

 

[DarkHelmet]

Thanks! I'll need to check my installs and see if I have that particular keygen...

Can you run DAS without Xentry? My research indicates around 2010, DAS standalone was disabled in favor of embedding it with Xentry. If you could separate them (or you had an old version) I suspect it would be one less key needed to get HHT-Win running. But the old version of DAS might only work with a C3 (not a C4, since C4 does not use serial port like it does with C3)

I loaded a copy of 2025 Xentry on a Win11 VM, and it looks like the executable for DAS is there (C:\Program Files (x86)\Mercedes-Benz\DAS\bin\DAS32r2.exe), though I get an error when running it. I don't have a key for Xentry or DAS. As you probably know HHT does not need a key, and it seems DAS is the go between broker between the multiplexer and HHT, so if you can avoid Xentry, which in the later versions seems to phone home to MB, it might be a path to a clean build of HHT diagnostics.

The only other option is a very early version of HHT-Win, which my googling indicates it will talk directly to the serial port and should skip DAS. But it needs a C3 and Windows XP because it uses 16bit libraries. Though there are 32 bit versions floating around, where someone swapped the 16bit libraries for 32bit libraries (WINE emulator libraries) and people are claiming it is working. HHT would still needs to talk to the serial port directly, but if you get an FTDI USB to serial adapter cable, it may work with a more recent computer and 32bit OS (i.e. Windows 10), a few people seem to claim success using the FTDI USB to serial adapter.

I hope to play with this stuff in a month when I get the car back and order the multiplexer.

 

[DarkHelmet]

Have you tried a clean install of HHT ?

I found a clean copy of Windows XP CD I had from back in the day. I loaded it on a VM. Then, I used an install of HHT-Win I found on the internet, looks like it is the 16 bit version. I then ran HHT-Win, and it worked, all the way to the point where it is trying to talk to the C3 multiplexer which I do not have (so it hangs). Once I get a C3, I will use the USB FTDI adapter to hopefully see if it will talk to my WinXP VM with HHT, using USB.

If that works, I will have a clean install of HHT with no foreign hacks or keygens. The only issue left is if the C3 will work with the FTDI USB to serial Adapter. All indications are that it does.

So there is a good chance this will work for HHT, and be cost effective (only need the C3). But anything more (reading CAN bus for live data?) is not supported by HHT. C3 is obsolete, so C4 and beyond is an entirely different ball of wax as it requires DAS to interface to C4 and then relay the data back to HHT.

 

[gsxr]

Older chassis, through something like 2010, originally used DAS. Xentry was only required for newer chassis. I'm not sure of the exact model year break point. IIRC, newer SDS software versions (mid/late teens) eliminated DAS and made everything run through Xentry, including old chassis? I never really paid attention because all I cared about was HHT-Win.

DAS just fires up HHT-Win separately anyway, which is why later versions of the Chinese software images had a separate HHT-Win shortcut on the deskop. (There's still the issue of having the right "flags" to access the R129 menu, as mentioned previously.) I believe you are correct that HHT-Win leverages DAS components to talk to the multiplexer. If there was a way around this, to get HHT-Win to talk directly to the MUX, that would be fantastic - we really don't need DAS or Xentry otherwise.

I was not aware that there were "early" versions of HHT-Win that might bypass DAS. This is fascinating info, if accurate. Running XP would be a nuisance, but I could live with an old serial laptop and XP on SSD if it's DAS-less and Xentry-less. Being able to run on newer hardware with Win 10 and USB would be a bonus. Hopefully there is no drawback to the early / older version of HHT-Win.

Can't wait to see what you find when connecting HHT-Win to your new C3 MUX! Bummer about the C4 requiring DAS, I was afraid of that. The problem is locating C3 MUX's that will support EZL communication. An older post on this forum stated that the EZL uses lower signal voltages, and some cheaper C3 MUX's choke and refuse to communicate - but work fine with all other modules except the EZL. Obtaining cables with all 38 pins is another hassle but we can deal with that.

 

[DarkHelmet]

Older chassis, through something like 2010, originally used DAS. Xentry was only required for newer chassis. I'm not sure of the exact model year break point. IIRC, newer SDS software versions (mid/late teens) eliminated DAS and made everything run through Xentry, including old chassis? I never really paid attention because all I cared about was HHT-Win.

My understanding is that it started out with stand alone HHT for cars before 2003, then DAS, then Xentry.

DAS just fires up HHT-Win separately anyway, which is why later versions of the Chinese software images had a separate HHT-Win shortcut on the deskop. (There's still the issue of having the right "flags" to access the R129 menu, as mentioned previously.) I believe you are correct that HHT-Win leverages DAS components to talk to the multiplexer. If there was a way around this, to get HHT-Win to talk directly to the MUX, that would be fantastic - we really don't need DAS or Xentry otherwise.

From my understanding, the original 16bit HHT-Win would talk directly to the hardware COM Port to get the data it needs when used with a C3. When the C4 came out with its DOIP/WiFi/Ethernet, that would not work because the C4 is not connected to the COM Serial port, so my guess is DAS either creates a COM Port Emulation for HHT or HHT-Win was modified slightly to interface with DAS, possibly using a DAS file. In any case, the old HHT-Win would not be able to work with C4 without DAS since it does not understand WiFi and Ethernet, etc..

I was not aware that there were "early" versions of HHT-Win that might bypass DAS. This is fascinating info, if accurate. Running XP would be a nuisance, but I could live with an old serial laptop and XP on SSD if it's DAS-less and Xentry-less. Being able to run on newer hardware with Win 10 and USB would be a bonus. Hopefully there is no drawback to the early / older version of HHT-Win.

I think it might be possible to run HHT-Win on 32bit/64bit OS's, like Windows 10/11. Right now I am focused on the original 16bit HHT-Win, but if I get that working, I will try to get it working on more recent OS's.

As for the 16 bit version, I found a few forums with what seems to be the original HHT-Win, as it is using 16 bit libraries, which only runs on Win XP. I ran it on an XP VM, and it worked, up to the point it went looking for the C3. It stopped at that point, so I found a bare C3 on AliExpress for $180 shipped, which is going to take a few weeks for delivery, plus I need cables.

Can't wait to see what you find when connecting HHT-Win to your new C3 MUX! Bummer about the C4 requiring DAS, I was afraid of that. The problem is locating C3 MUX's that will support EZL communication. An older post on this forum stated that the EZL uses lower signal voltages, and some cheaper C3 MUX's choke and refuse to communicate - but work fine with all other modules except the EZL. Obtaining cables with all 38 pins is another hassle but we can deal with that.

Ya, I hope i ordered a "good" C3 hardware clone. I uploaded the images of the board to the AI (ChatGpt/Gemini) and it analyzed it on a chip by chip basis, and it was somewhat reassuring.. But I won't know until I get it and hook everything up. I wish I could emulate the hardware but all indications are that it is difficult with the original HHT-Win because of the hardware timings.

 

[R129 UK]

My understanding is that it started out with stand alone HHT for cars before 2003, then DAS, then Xentry.

That is correct AFAIK, the HHT was originally a standalone piece of hardware:

HHT (Hand Held Tester) 6511 0001 99 and Accessories | MB Dealer & Factory Tools

The Holy Grail of Period Mercedes Testing Items. Needed for most diagnostic work. Included are the cables (6511 1200 99) as well as the last versions (4/6/99) of the "A" (6511 2600 13 V2.17A) and "B" (6511 2600 13 V2.17B) Software Cartridges.

www.500eboard.co

 

[DarkHelmet]

I pushed Google's Gemini (AI) a bit harder, and it seems that perhaps I was wrong, and HHT-Win was never released as a stand-alone.

Conclusion:

While officially, HHT-Win is integrated with DAS, the community 
has found ways to run it "stand-alone" to varying degrees of 
success. However, these methods often involve:

    Specific INI file tweaks that are not universally documented.
    Modified software distributions.
    Or, it's still running within a larger, pre-configured SDS environment 
    (like a VM image) even if DAS isn't explicitly launched first.

Your current issue of HHT-Win hanging at startup without a 
multiplexer is a classic symptom of trying to run it outside 
its expected environment or without the necessary handshake. 
Finding a version or configuration that allows it to launch into 
a demonstration mode without a physical multiplexer is 
possible, but often requires a bit of luck or relying on 
community-modified versions.

 

[DarkHelmet]

I played around with HHT-Win for a few hours. I monitored the serial port using SysInternals portmon program as I ran various configurations of HHT-Win. It was giving me a hard time not sending anything to the serial port, then finally, I got it to send a handshake to the nonexistant multiplexer (COM port). So, ya, this is a good sign.. And this is on a system without DAS or XENTRY.. I ended up using an executable called "HHTPKW.EXE" and had to point it at a ini file from a different directory. I am not sure what the "PKW" flavor of HHT-Win is, as the other executable I had unsuccessfully tested with is called HHT-WIN.EXE. There are also executables named HHTNFZ.EXE and an HHTVMOD.EXE in different directories of the files I scrounged off the internet, but they have not been tested.

So, this means there is a glimmer of hope that this can be run completely independent of the heavier DAS and XENTRY systems.

If anyone with a more complete install wants to retrace my steps, let me know and I will tell you how you can do it. As I don't yet have a muliplexer, I won't be able to go much further. But, you will need a C3 thats connected to the serial port to do a complete test.

If anyone knows what the PKZ, VMOD and NFZ are let me know. I wonder if they are just part of a full Xentry/DAS install, well, one from back in the day when they included HHT-Win.

 

[R129 UK]

I hope this helps:

How to Fix HHT-WIN Missing Mercedes R129? | OBDII365.com Official Blog

Problem: I’m very new to SDS (MB Star diagnostic system). I have finally got HHT to connect to the car. Got to learn all about Hyper-V, awesome. Now, all models seem to display, except for my 129? Does anyone know… Continue Reading →

blog.obdii365.com

Also these:

https://mhhauto.com/Thread-HHTWin-HHTPKW-exe-command-line-arguments

How to Start MB Star Diagnostic HHT-WIN Directly from Shortcuts | OBDII365.com Official Blog

Q: Does anyone have a list of command line arguments/parameters for starting mb star diagnostic SD Connect C4 HHT-Win directly from shortcuts? For example, I know that “HHTPKW.exe -b140” will start HHTWin for the W140 (gas version), and -b129 will start it for… Continue Reading →

blog.obdii365.com

 

[DarkHelmet]

Thanks. From these links and me messing around with HHTWIN, this is what I see:

HHT-WIN has a few different versions:

HHTWIN is 16 bit (unconfirmed)
HHTPKW is 32bit (unconfirmed)
HHTNFZ is ???
HHT_VM_START (is this HHTVMOD?) is a VM to run in 64 bit windows? Since most 64bit OS's can run 32bit software just fine, I don't understand the need to run this virtualized, just use the 32bit version. (unconfirmed)

Command line options (not all tested):

-b option is the car "series", examples include: b124,-b140,-b201,-b202,-b210,-b126,-b107,-b129, need exhaustive list
-m is the motor, "-mB" for gasoline or "-mD" diesel
-c database file name, example is "-cNFZWIN.CDB" (what is the database for?)
-p is the path for the db: -pC:\Proga~1\Merced~1\HHT\NFZ
-d dialog -- give you a GUI choice of language (better to us -L below)
-l language : -l02 is english, -l04 spanish, etc
-w option : no definition of what it is, seems to be shown with -wO8154711, but no clue what it is for, usually used for the pkw or nfz flavors.

The INI has more settings, and these command line settings can be set there, in the INI, which is probably more convienent in most cases.

Biggest question in my head is, what is the -w option doing?

EDIT:

According to AI (not verified or confirmed)

HHTPKW:
This term refers to HHT-Win for Passenger Cars (PKW stands for "Personenkraftwagen" in German, meaning passenger car
HHTNFZ:
This term refers to HHT-Win for Commercial Vehicles (NFZ stands for "Nutzfahrzeuge" in German, meaning commercial vehicles/utility vehicles).

Similar to HHTPKW, HHTNFZ would contain the HHT-Win program files and data specifically configured or containing diagnostic routines for Mercedes-Benz trucks, vans, buses, and other commercial vehicles from the era supported by HHT-Win.

 

[R129 UK]

How to install MB HHT (Hand Held Tester) on Windows 64 bit | OBD2Diy.fr Blog Officiel

BIG THANKS TO persona! All here is his contribution. If you want to share the content, please show your respect to the original. Basically: i (@persona) create

blog.obd2diy.fr

This has the same -w switch as you...

Interesting that I can't select any text from this website in my broswer unless anyone knows a way around this?