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Mercedes Hardware - Pierre's latest video January 2025

R129 UK

E500E Guru
Member
Has anyone else seen this? If so, what are your thoughts?

I don't see any issue buying DIN / ISO grade fixings.

Do Mercedes get theirs made elsewhere to an even higher standard?

Also, no mention of 1 time use parts e.g. stretch bolts which could cause issues for anyone blindly following the advice.

 
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If it's a name-brand, quality DIN / ISO bolt of equal rating - shouldn't be a problem. I do agree that the hardware included with some aftermarket kits (Febi subframe bushings, for example) may be junk.

There's no mention of the fact that many original fasteners have been replaced / superceded by Mercedes, with items that are NOT the same as original. Many/most originals from the W124 era were plated, while some of the current replacements you'd buy from the dealer are gray coated instead (cost reduction and/or environmentally friendly).

Even worse, some supercessions are not functionally identical - often having an incorrect head design. For example: One of the fan clutch bolts (not M119) were changed to internal Torx instead of hex-socket head. Probably made sense to the bean counter who approved this, however the problem is the MB special tools designed for clutch R&R only work with hex-head bolts, not Torx.

As a bonus, some hardware is simply NLA. The only option is finding good originals at a junkyard and cleaning them for re-use if needed.

:seesaw:
 
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Most of the old MB hardware was made by Kamax or Verbus. Most were zinc plated with yellow chromate pasivate (I think), even 10.9 grade or higher bolts. Nowadays every 10.9 or higher bolts are black oxide or flake zinc coted because traditional zinc plating can reduce strength of bolt that are 10.9 or higher. Search for hydrogen embrittlement. There are additional steps that you need to do after plating to prevent this from happening, but I never saw anyone doing them.

Flake zinc coating is also used because its more eco friendly and traditional yellow pasivate is really toxic for workers that did this process. Today yellow coatings have nothing in common with the old stuff besides color, at least in the EU.

If you're going to reuse old bolts you can re zinc plate everything that is 8.8 or below. Everything 10.9 I would reuse as it is or just buy good quality brand new bolts even if they are flake zinc plated. If they are available buy them only at the dealer. Flake zinc coating is not that durable as old plating, but I don't know if many of us are still riding this cars in salty winters.

There is also cadmium plating used in military and aerospace. It's more durable compared to traditional zinc plating and you can have it in yellow color. Issue is that it is also banned in most countries for commercial usage because of toxic fumes that this process produces.
 
Re-using MB hardware is something also that I always try to do. I throw very little original MB hardware away. Do I bother re-plating anything? No, as long as the hardware is structurally good and the threads are good.

I don't like the new "substitutions" of a lot of Allen hardware used, with hex head or Torx head bolts. Usually I eschew using the newer hardware unless I have no choice in the matter. Again, re-using the older stuff is preferable, and for things like fan clutch bolts I even have a couple or three spares of the original Allen hardware (not that I've needed to use it).

For a lot of hardware that comes with aftermarket kits (i.e. as mentioned the Febi subframe bushings, or flex discs) I will opt to throw it away and re-use the existing hardware.
 
When I see a W126 at a JY, I often go just to gather hardware, hose clamps, tie wraps. I have spent $2-3k having MB hardware re-plated to that nice rainbow yellow plating. Oh, and countless hours at a wire wheel on my floor grinder cleaning the hardware before taking to the plater. Only MB hardware on my cars.

And @gsxr is right about original hardware being NLA - especially hex head Allen bolts that are now replaced by e-torx or straight hex head bolts and nothing new from MB is yellow zinc plated. Some really expensive bolts are still available - W126 dog bone thrust bearing bolts with the big round plate that bolts the rubber bushings to the dog bone carrier - they are about $200/ea! Most on JY cars the large round plates are bent because numb-nuts use them as jacking points. And the W126 rear sub frame bolts that look like Saturn 5 rockets - I believe they are NLA. Those monsters could hold the weight of two w126's.
 
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Re-using MB hardware is something also that I always try to do.
I also don't throw anything away, even stretch bolts which might be useful for aligning components for "pre-assembly" and later swapping out 1 by 1 for final assembly but I'm also mindful that some parts such as rocker cover cap head screws / bolts can become quite worn on the drive geometry from the number of R&Rs over the years so I replace these on a case-by-case basis using DIN / ISO equivalents.

An interesting discussion here, much more informative than the YouTube video comments when I watched it last night.
 
Cousin Pierre's comments are directionally accurate, but are of limited benefit; but that is the case with most of his videos to be honest. He is looking very very broadly across decades of MB models and chassis -- and his "sweet spot" tends to be 1950s through 1980s. We tend to take a narrower, and more focused look at things with a more late 1980s to mid-1990s focus.
 
I might be mistaken but seeing this always makes me chuckle, I don't EVER remember seeing any comment from PH in response to a question posted by a viewer on ANY of his videos:

1738006609004.png


At least Mr Bergsma [aka "Uncle Kent" - Ed.] disables comments on his uploads...:)
 
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Yeah, Uncle Kent started turning off comments on his videos some time back. LOL. He didn't used to.

Indeed, don't recall seeing Cousin Pierre answer any comments on his videos. There was quite a bit of 500E-related banter on his recent video dissing the 500E, and not a reply in sight..... :stickpoke:

He certainly knows this forum too, but I've never seen him post here. Dollars to donuts that a lot of these shop owners (including Uncle Kent and Cousin Pierre) come to this forum as an information resource when an M119 or .034/.036 enters their shop doors. Certainly we have quite a few other shop owners and mechanics as members here - as viewed by the email addresses of various members I've seen (not counting @jhodg5ck )

:jelmerian2:
 

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