Milwaukee Power Tool Battery Repair and Warranty Experience

[jftu105]

This is a post for the experience of obtaining the warranty repair via Milwaukee, despite unsuccessfully.

I bought an XC5.0 M18 LithiumRed Milwaukee battery from eBay to do a job which needs huge torque. I bought it for about $70 off eBay, which might be too good to be true. The battery looked legit. Fast forward a few years, with little use, the battery died. It lasted for only a few minutes and it won't take the charge. Called Wilwaukee and was asked to provide the serial number on the battery. It was confirmed that the battery was produced in Feb, 2023; therefore, qualified for warranty repair.

Milwaukee offered free shipping to them and I had to file a repair request. All went through nicely. Milwaukee received the battery back after a few days.

Then, it became interesting.

First, I was told byf Milwaukee that the battery was a counterfeit, determined by the technician. Likely, this was because that eBay is not an authorized dealer. Anyway, Milwaukee refused to fix it for free. I will need to pay $120 for repair. I chose to have them ship the battery back without repair. Again, free of charge.

Opened up the battery and found there are 10 lithium-ion cells. Each of them is 4VDC. With two in parallel and five rows, it amounts to 20VDC. Checked the voltage of each cell, two of them were dead with 0V, while the rest of them ranges from 3.8 to 4.1V. Took out the two bad ones. I happened to have some lithium-ion cells from my died impact massager. Cut out two of them and they are in the identical size. Be careful not to short the batteries while doing any work with them.

Replaced the two bad ones and put everything back, I have a working battery again.

Lesson learned. Pay more out front to get a legit 3-year warranty. I suspect that, because Milwaukee makes their tools in China. The same factory likely also sells rejected or second quality Milwaukee parts on the side via eBay. The casing of the battery is really authentic but inside, the battery cells have no marking except a small QR code.

The battery cells from my impact massager were made by Samsung with full labeling. I have ten of these cells for future repairs.

jftu105

 

[2phast]

Plenty of compatible batteries on Temu, not counterfeits, just copies. Good prices but hard to say what the reliability it. I bought some bats during Black Friday and some other Milwaukee items for good prices. Have four bats now, 2.0amp, two 3.0 amp and one 4.0 amp. When deals pop up, thats when I normally buy.

 

[gsxr]

Lots of counterfeit Milwaukee batteries out there. If it's not purchased from an authorised dealer, you're rolling the dice. Home Despot offers quite a few deals where you buy a battery kit and get choice of a tool free, or vice-versa. If you get one of those deals it will often be cheaper than the eBay gambles. Milwaukee shouldn't refuse warranty repair if a genuine item is purchased from eBay, but if it's counterfeit, they're not going to warranty it regardless of where you bought it.

I read somewhere that when you press the button on the battery, genuine [M18] Milwaukee batteries light up the power level LED's in sequence, 1... 2... 3... 4. And that on counterfeits, all the LED's illuminate simultaneously. My Genuines light up in sequence. Worth checking, although I'd assume the counterfeiters have since figured out how to fix this "tell". Might be some YouTube videos with more info on how to identify real vs fake. Also check the eBay seller's feedback and see if anyone has since reported receiving fakes (or, if the eBay seller has since disappeared).

Edit: Looks like the counterfeiters have made the LED's light in sequence, but haven't mimicked the diagnostic code dance (see videos in next post).

Glad you got the battery working again though!

 

[gsxr]

 

[2phast]

Lots of counterfeit Milwaukee batteries out there. If it's not purchased from an authorised dealer, you're rolling the dice. Home Despot offers quite a few deals where you buy a battery kit and get choice of a tool free, or vice-versa. If you get one of those deals it will often be cheaper than the eBay gambles. Milwaukee shouldn't refuse warranty repair if a genuine item is purchased from eBay, but if it's counterfeit, they're not going to warranty it regardless of where you bought it.

I read somewhere that when you press the button on the battery, genuine Milwaukee batteries light up the power level LED's in sequence, 1... 2... 3... 4. And that on counterfeits, all the LED's illuminate simultaneously. My Genuines light up in sequence. Worth checking, although I'd assume the counterfeiters have since figured out how to fix this "tell". Might be some YouTube videos with more info on how to identify real vs fake. Also check the eBay seller's feedback and see if anyone has since reported receiving fakes (or, if the eBay seller has since disappeared).

Edit: Looks like the counterfeiters have made the LED's light in sequence, but haven't mimicked the diagnostic code dance (see videos in next post).

Glad you got the battery working again though!

Might be true on M18's but M12's don't work like that, as they don't have a power button on the battery, you have to insert the battery and press the trigger, battery strength will be shown on the drill and not light in sequence, they all light at once. FWIW

 

[jftu105]

Wow! Dave, you are the encyclopedia of all things useful.

Indeed, just checked the diagnosis of the counterfeit battery, claimed by Milwaukee. No self diagnosis. Milwaukee is right!

As I said, Milwaukee made its stuff in China. The factories there would do some side jobs. They will use the same cases. Inside, the battery packs would be using some cheaper lithium-ion cells and a cheaper battery managing card. They cannot copy the software by Milwaukee but they can simply use a generic battery managing circuit to do the job.

Lesson learned. The cheapest one I found on eBay, $19 plus $10 shipping for two XC5.0. I sent an email to ask the seller, with zero feedback, about the authenticity. I guess that I won't get a reply.

jftu105

 

[jftu105]

Read more carefully on the label of the Milwaukee battery. It states, Lithium-ion cells are made in Japan or Korea, and the final processing is done in China. To me, this means that the final assembly in China is nothing but soldering the cells together with a battery management card. After that, the packaging is simply. Just place it in the casing and tighten four bolts. Indeed, the bolts on the counterfeit I have are only simply torx bolts, not those with a center safety pin. I emailed the eBay seller from whom I bought the battery. It was listed as genuine and I paid $75 total. So far, no replies yet. I am not expecting a refund but an acknowledgement. No reply would means that the seller is dishonest.

For eBay shopping, I need to be very careful. In general, eBay has a policy forbidding counterfeits; however, the enforcement is another story. Many times I noticed fake Rolex or Omega watches and I reported the items. eBay would actually respond to me but most of time they accept what the seller says. $200 for a new Rolex watch. To eBay, why not! The worst is Etsy. The counterfeits are everywhere. I got blacklisted by Etsy after reporting those counterfeit watches. On Etsy, the seller of a $300 Rolex Submariner will tell the buyer to check out on a different site and Etsy still won't ban it.

Since I have ten good Samsung lithium cells, I am thinking getting a Milwaukee XC5.0 off eBay which is listed for parts with signs of use (to ensure to be genuine) and replace the cells.

jftu105

 

[svhamelly]

I bought an Ego leaf blower from Lowe's used it very sparingly for a year and the battery no long held a charge. I called Ego and they asked for the serial numbers of the battery, charger, and blower then walked me through troubleshoot steps (which i'd already done myself) when that didn't work they asked me to email a copy of the Lowe's reciept. Once they received the receipt they shipped me out a new battery free of charge.
But, had I not had the receipt, they said I'd get no replacement.

I have an old Dewalt nailgun that stopped working, just won't hold a charge. I bought a pair of compatable batteries on Amazon for $36 for the pair. Got them in the usual 2 days, charged them up and nothing!!! Wouldn't operate the nail gun. Sent them back to Amazon and was promptly refunded. Went to Batteries Plus the next day and bought a $70 battery (1 battery), charged it up and worked perfectly and has a 1 year warranty from Batteries Plus. Sometime you just have to suck it up and pay to play.

Last battery story, I promise... The 500E wouldn't start the other day, battery was dead AND 10 years old. So off to Walmart I went to get the one recommended on this board (Ever Start Platinum).
Walked back to the battery section, saw the battery I wanted locked in the cage... they don't lock them all, not sure why, but the one I wanted was locked up. Ask a nearby associate to find someone to get me the battery. They left for 15 minutes and came back and said they couldn't find the keys to the battery cage!!! So they couldn't sell me a battery!!! Went to another Walmart 25 miles away and found my battery, but this time they had the keys to unlock it!

 

[jftu105]

I wonder where these Walmart are which have to lock the battery away.

The construction quality of lithium ion cells is different depending the selling price. The rock-bottom priced battery cells are all produced in China. There is only one thin layer to separate cathode and anode inside the battery cell. Once charged, the electrons stored in the graphite while the lithium ion between the graphite layers on the anode side. The graphite keeps the electrons and ions to combine, while the separator keeps the electrons from going back to the cathode side internally. Failing to do that, the battery discharge internally and a fire is ensured.

Therefore, the safety of a lithium ion battery hugely depends on the healthy of a thin layer. Kind of scary to think of that. If this actually happens that the human civilization actually transitions to a 100% battery-based life, we would be surrounded with many unpredictable electric bombs. Of course, you can argue that the battery technology would evolve to a point, this is no longer a concern,

For the time being, I want to steer clear as much as I can. Of course, we are all surrounded with batteries already: laptop, cell phones (I do not have one), battery packs for power tools, electric cars (I park away from them if possible).

jftu105

 

[svhamelly]

I wonder where these Walmart are which have to lock the battery away.



jftu105

Pinehurst, NC area... not a hotbed of criminal activity, but it's also weird the seemingly random selection of batteries that were locked. As I said, not all of them were locked up... It didn't seem to be based on price

 

[jftu105]

Caution!

Do not try to fix any lithium-ion batteries. Too dangerous. I have learned my lessons. If you get a dead battery, immediately recycle them and don't keep them in the house. Lithium-ion batteries are inherently unstable.

Don't ask me how I learned my lessons.

jftu105

 

[gsxr]

Caution!

Do not try to fix any lithium-ion batteries. Too dangerous. I have learned my lessons. If you get a dead battery, immediately recycle them and don't keep them in the house. Lithium-ion batteries are inherently unstable.

Don't ask me how I learned my lessons.

I'm really tempted to ask, but I won't...

 

[doolar]

I work with fire damages in the manufacturing industry mainly, but I’ve been to many homes too unfortunately. I’ve not seen it all, but enough over the last decade of doing this.

And li-ion batteries should always be disposed of when they are wonky. Never buy or use cheap knockoffs, batteries and chargers. Why are Apple chargers expensive? Open one up next to a cheap one and it’s very obvious. Always buy known brands from known resellers.

Discard broken cables, I cut them with a cable cutter so no one pick them up from the recycling bin. Make sure your family does not charge their phone in bed. And bigger batteries such as the ones discussed here stores a lot of energy, so I’d be more careful.

I’m not trying to scaremonger, but a few simple steps can save your house. And loved ones.

What really sticks out are battery fires from scooters and electric bicycles. Even the good brands use crappy BMS’s often, with a charger with almost no protection, it just transforms power from Volt xxx to Volt yyy. I would never charge any such thing indoors and unattended.

And remember, every fire starts small.

 

[jftu105]

Just cleaned out, inside my house, all bad batteries, dead laptops, and the fake Milwaukee battery which I repaired. Also recycling the battery cells from my dead impact massager. Finally, I will build a safety enclosure with thermal fuse attached to the outside wall of the enclosure and a smoke alarm inside. All Lithium-ion battery charging will be done inside this safety enclosure.

Will park my car far away from any charging stations and any electric cars if I have a choice.

A Lithium-ion battery based civilization is stupid, just as stupid as feeding cows chemicals so that they fart less, a brilliant idea of Bill Gates, to reduce green house gases! I love green house gases to keep me warmer.

Have you had your climate milk yet?

BIG WIN: Dairy producer STOPS using Bovaer after boycott

Looks like people are voting with their wallets.

www.petersweden.org

jftu105

 

[jftu105]

Recycled all the batteries.

Found a metal mail box at Lowes, which is big enough to fit batteries. Did all the wirings and added a thermal fuse to the charging positive line.

I built this 100W solar cell panel and two 12V batteries for emergency. Now, when charging these batteries, it would be done inside this metal mailbox.. Also added a smoke alarm for extra alert.

jftu105

 

[Glen]

Recycled all the batteries.

Found a metal mail box at Lowes, which is big enough to fit batteries. Did all the wirings and added a thermal fuse to the charging positive line.

I built this 100W solar cell panel and two 12V batteries for emergency. Now, when charging these batteries, it would be done inside this metal mailbox.. Also added a smoke alarm for extra alert.

jftu105

Would love to see pictures of how you set it all up.

 

[jftu105]

Here is my small 100W solar charging system for emergency. The batteries are 12V, 75Ah and 100Ah. A smoke detector is mounted above the solar panel charger. The mailbox is from Lowe's. The charging wires are routed via the mounting holes at the bottom of the mailbox and the holes are covered with rubber to avoid the damages to the wires. The clips are from the jump starter that was destroyed. They are fully insulated and bite tight. The mailbox sits over a large piece of ceramic tile. Finally, in the first image, you see a black taped thing between the white wire and the red clip, which is the thermal fuse, a spare for my Whirlpool electric dryer. At lower temperatures, the resistance is zero and it goes up high when the temperature becomes too high to shut down the charging. I built this blue battery in the image with some high quality cells with a battery management system.

The solar cell panel is rated 100W but you are lucky to get 10W, made in China, of course. The charger can manage up to 13A. At high noon in the summer, I can measure about 2A charging current, which means about 25W. In the winter, you are looking 0.1A at best. The glass cover is dirty from pollen and dust, further cutting into the efficiency. I could tilt the panel higher in the winter for better sun exposure, but ....

A friend of mine who is a Korean invested in a solar farm in Korea and sell electricity to the electricity company. He could generate about $1500 net each month but the investment is about $300,000 (if I remember it right), almost like buying an apartment for rent. He told me that he paid extra for solar cell panels made by Samsumg instead of the cheap Chinese-made ones. Just like electric cars, he expected some major equipment replacements ten or fifteen years later. I am not sure a solar farm is a good investment. I do not want a major roof top solar system, just something for emergency.

jftu105

 

[R129 UK]

A friend of mine who is a Korean invested in a solar farm in Korea and sell electricity to the electricity company. He could generate about $1500 net each month but the investment is about $300,000 (if I remember it right), almost like buying an apartment for rent. He told me that he paid extra for solar cell panels made by Samsumg instead of the cheap Chinese-made ones. Just like electric cars, he expected some major equipment replacements ten or fifteen years later. I am not sure a solar farm is a good investment. I do not want a major roof top solar system, just something for emergency.

jftu105

In a former life the company I worked for was involved in the development of PV panel applications on roofs.

Panels produced by BP which I think were made in Mexico were susceptible to catastrophic failure by over heating etc.

I don’t see that investment as a good return, that said ground based mass farms are better than an individual having a few cells on the top of their house. FITs have reduced significantly in recent years and this is one area where early adopters have benefited most in many markets.

 

[jftu105]

It seems that every electric vehicle is a moving bomb.

A Cybertruck has burst into flames and exploded the near Trump Tower causing flames and smoke to rise with a loud bang.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1874509665679151333

jftu105

 

[gsxr]

Acceptable losses on the way to saving the planet?

Nevermind the probably-toxic fumes...

 

[jftu105]

It may not be the fault of the batteries of the cybertruck but a terrorist act.

Sources confirm to News5 driver of the Cybertruck in Las Vegas explosion lived in Colorado Springs

Sources confirmed to News5 Wednesday evening the driver of the Cybertruck in the Las Vegas explosion lived in Colorado Springs.

www.koaa.com

Sources confirm to News5 driver of the Cybertruck in Las Vegas explosion lived in Colorado Springs​

 

[jftu105]

However, lithium-ion batteries are still inherently unstable, just a thin layer of separator failure away from failure. Hsere is a recent battery recall by Ford discussing the failure of the separator:

Hanging by a thread is the perfect analogy on how robust lithium-ion batteries are in terms of safety.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V954-5979.PDF

In the documents above, filed with the NHTSA, the automaker said the problem occurred in manufacturing, and resulting “microdefects and local stresses” could cause the high-voltage battery cell’s separator layer to become damaged, leading to a short circuit and potentially, a fire. The NHTSA filing explained in detail:

In the event of a high voltage battery cell internal short circuit, customers may experience shutdown of the vehicle’s propulsion system. Loss of motive power increases the risk of crash and injury. Steering, braking, and lighting functions are not affected.
In the event of a high voltage battery cell internal short circuit, the customer may also experience battery thermal venting potentially resulting in a vehicle fire, increasing the risk of injury.

Microdefects and local stresses are not something easily detectable during manufacturing or during operation a few years later..

jftu105

 

[jftu105]

In name of being green that you can eliminate the real green.

MI lawmakers upset with plan to cut down 400 acres of forest for solar farm

Plans for a new solar farm in Michigan aren’t exactly popular with many Michigan lawmakers. Republican State Representative Ken Borton of Gaylord and others are upset with the Michigan Department of Natural Resources over a plan to

www.wsjm.com

Insanity goes on.

jftu105

 

[jftu105]

Just received this two-battery package, M18 XC3.0. Ordered from an authorized dealer when it was on sale. Waited almost 3 months for it to arrive. The price was too good, less than $80 total.

 

[jftu105]

Did the self-checking and the batteries do going into self-diagnosis and all bolts are the security type with the center pin. They are real as expected from an authorized dealer. No eBay battery purchase ever from now on. Put the charger in a metal bin, covered by other metal pieces around it to charge the battery. I am very cautious now in charging any lithium ion batteries.

jftu105

 

[jftu105]

I think that I am paranoid about lithium ion batteries. The world largest electricity storage unit, 300 MW(h), just went up in flame. It could not be put out and has to burn itself through. Several million lithium ion battery cells in one location. If one of them has a microscopic defects (cited by Ford's recall of its hybrid cars), it starts a chain reaction to burn all of them. The safety margin is less than 1 mm for 300MW power. Only 75 miles south of San Francisco.

Fire at one of the world's largest battery plants in California forces evacuations

Hundreds of people have been ordered to evacuate and part of Highway 1 in Northern California has been closed due to a major fire at one of the world’s largest battery storage plants

www.independent.co.uk

Fire at one of the world's largest battery plants in California forces evacuations​

Hundreds of people have been ordered to evacuate and part of Highway 1 in Northern California has been closed due to a major fire at one of the world’s largest battery storage plants​

Via AP news wire
Friday 17 January 2025 13:13 GMT

 

[jftu105]

Here is the drone video of the actual fire.

Drone footage shows fire at one of world's largest battery plants

The Moss Landing power plant, in California, was evacuated, as were people in the surrounding area.

www.bbc.com

In nature, there are almost no example of electricity storage. There are electric fields across a large space (such as the source of lightning), but almost no concentrated electricity storages. A few creatures might use electricity, such as electric eels in deep sea, but in general, electricity is a very rare form of energy sources or usage in nature. Combustion is the norm. And yet, human managed to conquer the generation, transmission, and use of electricity. Storage of electricity is still difficult with all batteries being limited in energy per weight. Desperation calls for desperate attempts. Enters the lithium ion battery. Each lithium atom can also provide one electron to be used in a battery. To get one amp of current, you need 6.242×10^18 electrons to pass per second, thus that many atoms of lithium. Lithium is not called rare earth for being abundant. Multiply that by 300 for an electric car and by millions for the energy storage unit now burning in California.

Carbon is the most common energy storage form and combustion can release the energy easily. The trees then recycle CO2 back to carbon, stored as the wood.

jftu105

 

[R129 UK]

@jftu105 thanks for the heads up.

Interesting that you linked to the BBC yet I’ve not seen that news story on the main page all day.

 

[jftu105]

Here is an interview of a firefighter chief on the fire of lithium ion batteries. Basically, you cannot put it out. It has to burn itself through. The fire of lithium ion batteries is like cancer cells that they have their own supplies to stay alive until the host is over.

jftu105
=====================================================================================
During a portion of an interview aired on Friday’s broadcast of CNN’s “OutFront,” San Diego Fire-Rescue Battalion Chief Rob Rezende stated that electric vehicles and their batteries will create additional issues in fighting the recent fires in California.

CNN National Correspondent Natasha Chen said, “Just last month, the EPA approved the state’s ambitious plan to end the sale of new gas-operated vehicles by 2035.”

She then played a clip of Rezende saying, “20, 30 years ago, when these things were not present in these fires, you didn’t have to think about that.”

Chen then said that Rezende “says the surge in batteries in homes and in EVs creates a new layer of complexity in firefighting.” Before playing a clip of him stating, “As the batteries start to burn, they actually release flammable gases like hydrogen and carbon monoxide, and then they also release their own oxygen. And so, smothering the fire doesn’t really work in these situations, putting a bunch of water on them doesn’t really work in these situations.”

Rezende also said, “So, the battery just kind of has to run its course and its chemistry needs to be consumed before it’ll stop being on fire.”

Follow Ian Hanchett on Twitter @IanHanchett