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500Eboard Management
FYI Negative Influence of 500Eboard on E500E Sales — ?
- Thread starter magicbigdaddy
- Start date
I reiterate that it is not a bad idea for a seller to proactively create a thread here (or update an existing thread) ahead of listing their car on BaT. That way a punch list can be created, and any simple things can be taken care of (like ordering new zoom tubes, for example) ahead of listing the car on BaT. Even a big list of little things that are easily corrected, can provide an impression of a seller who isn't very meticulous and buttoned up.
Having old and cracked zoom tubes are one thing on an old car with 250K miles, but if you're trying to sell a decent 500E on HaT with say 60K miles on it, and are expecting top dollar, having clapped-out zoom tubes isn't going to inspire much confidence in a buyer. Much better to know about it up front, and take care of it. And what's $100 for new zoom tubes, if you're asking $40-50K for a car?
The most successful sellers pay attention to detail, anticipate questions (and have appropriate answers ready, if asked), are engaged on a daily basis, and are honest and forthcoming in how they converse and engage. Most importantly, they know what they are talking about.
Yes. Although they have their preferences in there for sellers and models and for some selected few they shortcut the wait time. For the example you are trying to sell you can try other sites as has been suggested above. Good luck with the sale.
Selling cars on forums is usually not a good idea. Mostly people undervalue everything that does not belong to them and the listing stays there forever. I still like Ebay for what I sell.
What's your completion rate? I ask because it's been my experience that about two out of three (eBay) buyers flake out. Easy to do since there are no consequences for doing it.
Dan
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That is one thing I don't like about most forums, you can't edit or delete the post after X days. I'd prefer to have a listing go away (or at least VIN removed) after the sale. eBay only keeps data for a few months; CL for ad duration (now fixed at 30 days, I think). This would not be for 036's of course, where @The Emperor will use the Force (or the Schwartz) to resurrect any deleted VIN's.
Is there a list of decent places to post a car for sale, other than CL / fleaBay, and marque-specific forums? I haven't tried eBay in a decade.
This is an interesting observation. If I were to ever sell my sell my 500E (I have no plans to BTW) I might try to sell it here because I have a lot of time and history invested on the 500Eboard. I am active here.
However, I think for my Volvo, it would be a super bad idea for my to list it there ---- I am not active AT ALL on any Volvo forums and I don't really know the culture there --- I'm a stranger there.
My completion rate is usually better than it is on forums which is little to none. Ebay has a global audience and most of my cars are obscure enough to where I need to look far to find that buyer. For that matter, many of the cars I sold went abroad.
WRT forums, non serious prospects tend to make you work harder, requesting shipping quotes, additional pictures from different angles, scans of service records etc. They tend to really want to get into the weeds before telling you that they need to talk to the wife , sell their own project etc. Forums have enthusiasts, enthusiasts may have an interest but not necessarily any money.
WRT @gerryvz 's point - this forum tends to be bit different to your average MBZ forum that's largely populated with diesel owners. I believe that it's this forum that's the main reason for why these cars command such high values - through the way it collects data on every car for sale, tracks it's sales history, and blast it out to the world wide web.
It's a speculator's dream.
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When you hear that line run for the hills.
I don't know if selling a documented car on the forum is a bad idea or a good one, I guess it depends from case to case. The problem I see is that on forums you have a limited audience and finding the right buyer is not that easy. It works in some cases, @1783pictures is one example: his first SEC was a very well sorted car that he bought from a BW member. It was a mutually beneficial deal, or so I think it was.
Selling a car on Ebay offers much more exposure and, therefore, more chances to get the asking price or a good offer.
Probably advertising first on the forum as a courtesy to members and if nobody is interested then selling it on Ebay might be a more "refined" solution.
I would not touch actually selling a car on eBay with a 10 foot pole. Like Craigslist, far too many flakes who don't follow through. The only thing eBay is good for, is global publicity for a car.
Far better to sell a car on a specialist forum. That's where your focused audience of owners and prospects is going to be.
Far better to sell a car on a specialist forum. That's where your focused audience of owners and prospects is going to be.
Exactly - you get a worldwide audience on an extremely high-traffic platform. Flakes come with the sale regardless of where it's listed. If you don't want to deal with flakes, consign it or trade it in, let the dealers handle the flakes.
The problem with the specialist forum is not everyone in the market knows about the specialist forum. Particularly for older, unique cars like the 036 where a total n00b might get a wild hair to buy one for his bucket list, and not know about the forum (particularly if located outside USA). We know this is the place to buy or sell an 036, but not everyone else does. And some forum members have gotten top dollar for their 036 on HaT (while others did not, or RNM'd).
In theory this would logical. In practice.. i own a few different cars and frequent a few different forums. I might be able to debate how this is in practice.
I would disagree, unless you're planning on selling at less than a "retail" sale would net. I say that because on any enthusiast's forum the value is a known quantity for the most part, and as a result, you'll net a lower number than say on eBay or HaT.
I've seen this many times on forums like Banz Whirled where a family member comes and posts a car that belonged to Dad/Grandpa/spouse thinking that they'll net the highest price selling to people who know the car. This is usually exacerbated because said family member often inflated the value of the car for a number of reasons - ignorance, an effort to make it appear more valuable, etc., etc.
These people show up, post the listing, and get carved up by the locals because they know nothing about the car and think it will get jumped on at a market price or because Dad always said it was worth $50,000 (assuming it's really a $20,000 car.)
At least that's my take on it.
Dan
Along those lines, it is worth what it is sold for. Market decides (aka seller and buyer) everything. My Dad felt his house was worth a Sh*#* load more money than the offer (aka market) made. He owns the house 4 years later and should have sold then. I can see a haggle over 1% - 3% of asking prices, but expecting hyperbolic sums cuz the memory of the seller warrants it would be futile at best. 
Well, like I said, plenty of cars have been sold through this forum, and for good money. Would @8899 or @2phast have gotten the same amount of money from other members here than they got on HaT? Only they could tell you for sure. I'd say they probably got more on HaT than they would have gotten here.
But like I said, plenty of cars have been sold through this forum and I don't recall anyone moaning and groaning that they got ripped off. As @nocfn says, the best price is the one that both parties agree on. It's easy to walk away from a crappy deal ..... or on HaT, to not bid (or stop bidding) once the price goes insane.
People here tend to know the "real" market for these cars, because we see them change hands day in and day out. HaT is I think less educated overall, and filled with ignorant and impulse buyers, who probably don't mind paying whatever if they want a new garage bauble. Which is fine.
I also haven't seen that many E500Es on HaT go for OUTRAGEOUS money, unless they have showroom miles or were owned by Gottlieb Daimler himself. More often they go for less than one would think -- like the recently completed "Oszkar" car, or the one that is ending shortly in Alabama (which is far lower than it should be). Both the Oszkar car and the Alabama car are quite nice examples, even though Oszkar's is an accident car.
But like I said, plenty of cars have been sold through this forum and I don't recall anyone moaning and groaning that they got ripped off. As @nocfn says, the best price is the one that both parties agree on. It's easy to walk away from a crappy deal ..... or on HaT, to not bid (or stop bidding) once the price goes insane.
People here tend to know the "real" market for these cars, because we see them change hands day in and day out. HaT is I think less educated overall, and filled with ignorant and impulse buyers, who probably don't mind paying whatever if they want a new garage bauble. Which is fine.
I also haven't seen that many E500Es on HaT go for OUTRAGEOUS money, unless they have showroom miles or were owned by Gottlieb Daimler himself. More often they go for less than one would think -- like the recently completed "Oszkar" car, or the one that is ending shortly in Alabama (which is far lower than it should be). Both the Oszkar car and the Alabama car are quite nice examples, even though Oszkar's is an accident car.
As I mentioned in earlier posts, it is all about having the thick skin to take the critique, the patience and knowledge to reply to all inquiries if getting your asking price is what you want. In 2020 I went 3 for 4 in car sales at 'my price', not alleged market or low ball offerings. 2 of them were dealer consigned as in FL one cannot sell more than 3 cars in a 12 month period as an individual. You have to have a dealer license to exceed the 3 count in a calendar year.
And for what it's worth, I would buy and/or sell a car(s) in this forum any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
And for what it's worth, I would buy and/or sell a car(s) in this forum any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
The Silver Arrow E500 LTD. sold for outrageous money recently. $123K plus fees. That is Schwartz ludicrous scale IMHO.
This forum is somewhat different to most enthusiast forums so I'll exclude it from my generalization, which is that every other forum that I've been on has the same mix of owners as those that you've described BW in past comments. This leads to different opinions, all public but not all constructive. As far as money changing hands? If I was to group MB forum owners that I've personally met by profession, the largest professional group would be social security disability. There's nothing wrong with that if you're having a chin wag. But if you're trying to sell a car, that might not be the ideal target.
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Yes, it most certainly was. What a car. I had been able to look up its history and everything the owner did with it. He tried selling on eBay and Craigslist and even had an eBay buyer put a deposit on it, though the buyer walked away without even looking at the car (weird weird weird). It became mine when the owner threw up his hands and said, "Okay, Matt. I'll accept your offer."
When I moved to China I sold it to a bw forum member that had contacted me and have never heard any complaints. That car was crazy sorted, and then some. What a ride. Naturally, I am sure things have gone wrong. Don't they always?
I can never sell my 500 SEC. Looking back at the forums would scare any buyer off. They would think it's a disaster, which it absolutely is not. It's an awesome car with one remaining annoyance. And I must have faith it'll be sorted out in the end.
Selling any car on eBay or Craigslist is a difficult process. The amount of loons and bullsh*tters is endless.
This forum is an outlier. I would more than willingly buy a car from just about anyone here, as I know it's been vetted in the court of public opinion by those who know these cars. That being said, I don't care who the seller is, I would still inspect it myself or have it inspected by a trusted third party before I completed the sale.
I think @alabbasi summed up most other forums.
-D
I think @alabbasi summed up most other forums.
-D
Truer words have never been said. You forgot “flakes” though.
I've never tried to sell a car on the M-100 forum but I found that when I first joined the forum in 2003-2004 timeframe, it was full of knowledgeable people and very little politics. This was as a general member and not as a board member or webmaster. Sometimes it's better not to know how the sausage is made.
I can believe that it was at the board level. Not as the junior fellow that i was, barely into his 30's
If the M-100 club hadn’t have been so political, I wouldn’t have left, wouldn’t have sold my 6.9 in 2003 and 6.3 in 2004, wouldnt have bought my E500 in 2003 and wouldn’t have brought the 500Eboard online in 2008 just a few weeks after moving to Texas !!! So I have to thank all those guys, several of whom are no longer with us (via dirt nap or prison).
I did a round on EBay, only had flippers trying to low ball me. Also tried here, with no luck. I figure that replacing the tape deck killed any chances of finding a buyer. BaT at least, has a process in place so that you don't end up with dead beat bidders, if they bid and win, they get charged the BaT buyers fee. So unless they want to piss away a couple of grand, you can expect to get paid. Too bad EBay does not have that policy in place.
You only get to do that once and, after paying, you will be banned from bidding. Yes, you could probably subvert that with a new credit card and the office address.
Robert
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The problem with HaT is
1) You can't sell anything and everything there. They are picky about the cars and sellers. If they don't like the odometer, or the reserve, they will turn you down and almost never reconsider. It's a double standard, as the same car from a "golden seller" will be accepted without question. You can sell any polished turd on eBay though.
2) You don't get a second chance if reserve isn't met. If they accept your car & reserve, you've got 7 days for the right buyer to find the car. No sale? No second chance. They only relist for deadbeat bidders. Oddly, they will re-list the same car if the new owner flips it a few months later. You can keep re-listing on eBay either as BIN, auction, or classified ad.
3) The peanut gallery is largely unmoderated. Unless a commenter is namecalling or using profanity, trolls can kill an auction and possibly kill a sale. All it takes is one self-proclaimed "expert" to unleash a flood of misinformation, which can give genuine buyers cold feet. As a seller you are pretty much helpless in this situation and need mad diplomacy skillz to try and salvage the sale. eBay has no comment section. As a bonus, the listing and comments remain in perpetuity... eBay's listings vanish in a few months.
I agree. eBay is generally a hostile environment for sellers, but offers lots of buyer protection. At least with vehicles you control the transaction and eBay is not involved with funds transfer, so buyers can't return the vehicle for a refund. Best you can do is require a non-refundable deposit within XX hours via a method eBay nor the seller can recoup. No deposit? Listing goes back up.
I should say that while I think that Ebay is the better way (never tried BAT) for me. That does not mean to say that selling cars is easy in general. The cars I own are generally luxury European cars from the 70's-90's. They're seen as they should be as a luxury or a project to any perspective buyer. 99% of everyone I talk to is either not serious (their fathers uncles cat's friend from across the street knew someone who had one back in the day and they want to tell me their life story about it) or low ballers who think that they can buy it cheap and turn a quick profit selling it using the exact same channel that I'm using, or they need to speak to the wife.
What can you do? Not much....I'm selling a money pit that's likely going to be someone's 3rd , 4th or 5th car. For that reason, most deals are always flaky.
What can you do? Not much....I'm selling a money pit that's likely going to be someone's 3rd , 4th or 5th car. For that reason, most deals are always flaky.
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That is actually starting to change, Dave. I did get BaT to agree to relist an FJ that barely went RNM. Have not pulled the trigger for it to be listed yet.
Robert
Which is actually not an altogether bad experience for car hobbyists, IMO... if you're trying to eat or pay your mortgage off of the endeavor, maybe that's different... but for most "cult following" cars, chin wags with other members of that cult is precisely the point of the matter... is it not?... I'm not Officer Friendly by any means, but I've genuinely enjoyed most people I've met on the car trails... some bad apples sure, but they didn't spoil the bunch.
maw
Now that is bizarre. Usually if it's that close to reserve, BaT will kick in the difference to make everyone happy. This would be the first I've heard of a re-list for RNM, and it will be interesting to see what happens the second time around: same bidders? new bidders? higher or lower bids? Etc.
I could see them offering re-lists if they were short on submissions, but @JAB12 says it's a 2-4 month waitlist, which doesn't jive with re-listing RNM's.
I sold my 9934S in April 2020 myself with a simple Rennlist post after not only being 'adjusted' my reserve price by BAT but also being informed that instead of the usual 2-3 week waiting period for the listing to go live, I had to wait possibly up to 2 months. I lost $100 listing fee, but I sold the car at full ask inside of 48 hours with the traditional approach. Later in 2020 when I submitted the C43 it was a worse story as wait time had increased to the aforementioned 3 months plus maybe more. They also would not accept my reserve price which was $28K. End result of that one was car sold 2 months later for $29.5K. So as far as I am concerned BAT can keep doing what they are doing, and I will keep doing what I do next time I decide to sell a car. I appreciate the entertainment they provide and the few instances where I have won gas money thanks to the @Ntrepid price is right game.
In the same token I have 2 friends that are considered 'golden sellers' by BAT that get their submitted listings posted live within 7-10 days. So, it is what it is.
In the same token I have 2 friends that are considered 'golden sellers' by BAT that get their submitted listings posted live within 7-10 days. So, it is what it is.
No, the point of the matter is to sell a car
That's like saying that the point of a Best Buy is for people to look at a real TV set before they order it on Amazon.
To elaborate. the chin wags are okay for social events or on forums. Showing a car can eat into a big chunk of your day after the 3rd or 4th time. It becomes exhausting. I was not kidding about the SSD profile. There are a lot of people out there with a lot of time on their hands that test drive cars for fun. If I go through my old craigslist emails, I can probably identify 4-5 names that inquire about every Mercedes Benz that I listed for sale. They never bought one.
Is the M-100 board even still alive/active? It was floundering badly and then they went to pay - access for the site which I think was the death rattle IMHO.
I was long gone by then.
alabbasi
I understand your perspective. My brother has been a dealer for decades and many folks just don't know how difficult it can be. There is a considerable difference when an owner sells a personal car. I have sold quite a few over 40 years and met some interesting enthusiasts. I generally enjoy the process although the general public is not what it once was. I have learned to decide quickly who is genuinely interested in buying and I don't sell cars when I NEED to but rather when I will consider a good offer.Only an independent owner Not everyone has that luxury of course.
drew
I understand your perspective. My brother has been a dealer for decades and many folks just don't know how difficult it can be. There is a considerable difference when an owner sells a personal car. I have sold quite a few over 40 years and met some interesting enthusiasts. I generally enjoy the process although the general public is not what it once was. I have learned to decide quickly who is genuinely interested in buying and I don't sell cars when I NEED to but rather when I will consider a good offer.
drew
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No it’s not actually. But reasonable minds can differ I suppose, depending if this is business or hobby and how the conversation goes. I have a lot of conversations that result in "no deal" but that lead to better deals.
maw
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Drew. it is what it is. Old European cars are a niche and not a necessity so it's all to be expected. I've adapted by either dismantling the cheapest ones, or to qualify local prospects to discourage them from visiting if they're not ready to buy.
For the nicer or more interesting cars, eBay seems to work provided that the price is right because it has a far reach and there's usually an out of state or overseas buyer that's interested. It's also a hobby for me and if I'm selling, it's usually to make space for something new or feed another project. If I tried to make a living out of it, I might starve to death.
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I think Rennlist and this forum are basically polar opposites in terms of selling a car.
The former actively prohibits discussing a vehicle yetallows encourages cheerleading for the seller. While this one fosters a mostly-unbiased discussion of each car.
When I was in my 993 hunting phase, I was totally disgusted with how RL operated in terms of FS listings.
The former actively prohibits discussing a vehicle yet
When I was in my 993 hunting phase, I was totally disgusted with how RL operated in terms of FS listings.
