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Numerous problems...

R

Randy Freeman

Active member
Member
Can any one tell me what is optimal fuel pressure should be off fuel rail ?

What should cylinder pressure be using an compression tester ?

Missing vaccuum hoses off front of intake manifold near diaphragm ? looking for a pic or diagram ?

Thanks Randy 604 720 7949
 
With vacuum hose connected, fuel pressure should be approx 45psi, with the hose removed, it should increase to approx 55psi.

Compression pressure with a warm/hot engine should be 10-14 bar (150-200psi) with max variance 1.5 bar (22 psi) from highest to lowest. The type of compression tester used can affect readings by ~10%, so don't get too hung up on exact numbers. If you are located much above sea level, the readings will be lower, there are conversion factors available on the internet to adjust for your local elevation:
http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB CD/W124/w124CD1/Program/Engine/119/01-0100.pdf

Front / top vacuum hoses are for EGR and the feed to the valves that control EGR and smog pump, behind the passenger headlight. Vacuum diagram is here:
http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB CD/W124/w124CD1/Program/Engine/LHIS/14-0030.pdf


You might want to start using the factory manual...
http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB CD/W124/Main.html


:5150:
 
Thanks Dave I was using the factory manual but could not find psi. So thanks. Also My mechanic has my car running much better but has installed e3 plugs that he said were spec replacement and good ...? As its running much better now its hard to argue with him but I have read over and over about the bosh plugs, do you know what will be the difference will be / show up.

Thanks Randy
 
People have used resistor plugs without problems, however the FSM indicates that the additional resistance could affect the EZL over time. I don't know if this is true or if it's just being overly cautious. I prefer the non-resistors myself.

If MB doesn't want 5k ohm rotors, I don't think they'd want 5k ohm plugs either... just my thoughts:

proxy.php


:seesaw:
 
a new E3 is an improvement over a worn out conventional plug, sure...but Really, just stick w/ what's Known to work per Dave's recommendation above. M119's already eat their caps/rotors up Right quick. Running resistor plugs will only exacerbate the problem with Zero benefit in the mean time.

jono
 
There are two coils and they are different. If you replace one, replace both. The "long wire" one should be closest to the engine and feed to the passenger side distributor. It's easiest to replace them if you remove the driver's headlight first. If the wires have corrosion at the terminals, replace the wires.

:mushroom:
 
My mechanic and good friend is pissed as he says I'm just wasting MY money and HIS time as he has already installed the e3 plugs and has the Beck Arnley fuel filter and some other type of coils. He thinks that I need to trust him and get off the internet. To make things worse his connection at Lordco parts store told him s she previously worked at Mercedes and the parts ordered are direct replacement / exact same and I have no Idea. She now had Bosh Platinum plugs to replace the m3 plugs installed ?

I feel between a rock and a hard place as I get how a customer relaying info could get annoying.

These bosh parts are hard to get in Port Alberni to make my argument even weaker.

Now they just want it out of the shop. Will order the correct parts and do the work in my driveway from know on.

Live and learn ....just hope I did not lose a good friend ?
 
D'oh! Most of this work you can do yourself. You'll likely save money, as long as you properly diagnose and replace bad parts, not good ones.

Any platinum spark plugs will be resistor type. They'll work, but are not recommended for the M119, as noted above.

Beck-Arnley is a reboxer. Sometimes they rebox OEM parts, so it could be a quality item. Other times they rebox garbage, as seen here. It's a gamble. It is safer to stick with the correct name brand stuff. If you haven't seen the approved vendor list, click here. I see someone (Gerry?) has put Beck-Arnley in the bottom group, which might be a little extreme, but oh well.

Remember, most mechanics/shops will sell you the parts they are making the most profit on, not necessarily what is the best quality part. With Mercedes parts, off-brand items can also have fitment problems. Just something to keep in mind.

:seesaw:
 
The proper bosh plugs and fuel filter through MB will be in Thursday one hour away so they can get it together and out. As the bosh coils would not be in until next tue so they are going to clean up and reinstall the old ones so i can take it and if I need them I will order from AHAZ.COM ...lol and install myself.

Thanks for all the help, LOVE this car and almost as much this site.
 
Randy Freeman said:
My mechanic and good friend is pissed as he says I'm just wasting MY money and HIS time as he has already installed the e3 plugs and has the Beck Arnley fuel filter and some other type of coils. He thinks that I need to trust him and get off the internet. To make things worse his connection at Lordco parts store told him s she previously worked at Mercedes and the parts ordered are direct replacement / exact same and I have no Idea. She now had Bosh Platinum plugs to replace the m3 plugs installed ?

I feel between a rock and a hard place as I get how a customer relaying info could get annoying.

These bosh parts are hard to get in Port Alberni to make my argument even weaker.

Now they just want it out of the shop. Will order the correct parts and do the work in my driveway from know on.

Live and learn ....just hope I did not lose a good friend ?
Click to expand...
You are the customer and you should specify whatever part you want for the car. If they can't or won't get it, I'd go to another shop. All of these parts can be had most cheaply via AutohauZ or Amazon - certainly cheaper than your mechanic would sell them to you for. Some shops refuse to install customer supplied parts and I understand that, they make margin on parts.

It is your car and you should insist on good quality parts that you know will hold up and are worthy of the car. I doubt your mechnaic/friend is a specialist in the 036 like many folks here are. Jono and others who own & wrench on these cars for a living can chime in, but I have a hard time believing that Jono would install Beck-Arnley anything on his or his customers' cars.

As far as plugs are concerned, DO NOT use Platinum plugs, nor resistor plugs. Buy the Bosch F8DC4 plugs whcih are available via Amazon or via AutohauZ for under $2 apiece. Those are the correct plugs for the car. There is far more accurate and collective knowledge among the owners here on these cars than anyplace else on the planet. I have 10.5 years of ownership of my car, GSXR has 10+ years, and that's just two of us. Factor in folks like Glen, Cannoli, Jimbo, Jono, Need2Speed and a few others and you're pushing 70-80 man-years of ownership, just among those few folks. So they know best.
 
That is exactly why I love this sight. Owning a 1992 500e 124 is a little more tricky / super car then even my 2004 BMW m3 as some Mercedes shops are even unfamiliar with the car. Thanks once again to everyone on here as I don't just use the sight to fix my car, I also have learned so much about the car from all the post.

I first fell in love with one of these cars I seen driving every once and a while 12 years ago in Vancouver when my wife owned a 190 e. The only one I ever seen then a few years later it was for sale but for $44000 so my wife kyboshed that purchase and I settled for a 95 BMW 540I for around 1/2 but as like any car nut I never forgot. My 500 has around 140 000 miles ( the most of any used car I've ever purchased ) but looks like new in and out ...Quality! Its mine my fav car Ive ever owned or for that matter drove. I hope to attend one of the groups 500e get together ...and when I get there have the people that know, know that my car is still Quality because of the lessons learned on this site.

Randy.
 
I can attest to using the correct non-resistor plugs. Your mechanic or supplier may scoff and say it doesn't matter, but when I was running the resistor plugs in a newly purchased E420, I was experiencing sluggish acceleration and rough idle when hot. When I accelerated, it was almost as if the ignition timing was being automatically retarded to prevent detonation and it was a struggle to get it to accelerate. The prior owner probably didn't even notice because the car came from California where the outside temps are usually not extreme; but when I brought it to Arizona and it was 110 F out, that's when it manifested itself.

I replaced the plugs with Bosch F8DC4 and it was like magic. The original plugs were Bosch resister plugs and they even seemed to be in good shape (no fouling). So, the non-resistor plugs for the M119 are more than just a preference -- they are a necessity.
 
MB had 3 different correct plugs in the owners manual-

the shops/mechanics just look up what is called out in the web-based catalogs. Bosch no longer makes a non-resistor plugs, so they have superseded to the resistor plug. So, there is lots of confusion.

I don't know any true Mercedes/Porsche/bmw shop in my area WHOM uses beck/arnley. They have import parts suppliers which are wholesalers.. Think of Beck/Arnley as a middleman.

I see problems maintain these cars because most other M119's are falling into the 2-3rd-4th owners whom are more apt to defer maintence needs.

I've had mine down for months and doing lots of little things- rubber parts, missing bushing, exhaust leak, motor mounts, driveshaft, metal oil tubes RHS, oil level sensor, hydraulic line, new p-clamps, etc etc etc.. I know it will get done soon and I will not be below the car for a long time=)

Michael
 
samiam44 said:
Bosch no longer makes a non-resistor plugs, so they have superseded to the resistor plug.
Click to expand...
I do not believe this statement is correct. I just purchased six Bosch F8DC4 non-resistor plugs for the rebuild of my wife's E320 wagon, and am planning to purchase eight of them to have as spares for my E500 and 560 models. They are easily available through multiple sources online, as well as through MB dealers.

This is far too important and widespread of a part for Bosch to curtail production of.

Cheers,
Gerry
 
I heard rumors a few years ago about Bosch no longer making the F8DC4 for aftermarket. I stocked up and bought a few sets. Interestingly, the older ones were made in Brazil, the newer ones are made in Russia, in different packaging. I think the rumored demise was premature.

Even if Bosch did kill them off in aftermarket, it is very likely you could still get them via MB (at a higher price). The 6L engines use Bosch F7DCO (non-resistor) which are not available aftermarket, only via MB dealers. There are equivalent NGK's via aftermarket though.

:pc1:
 
I have ordered 8 F8DC4 from MB from vin# will they be the correct plugs.

Also we have cleaned up the coils and put them back in, both are working but two cylinders off of the front coil are missing a little / remove wire not much difference, but still m3 plugs until tomorrow, Have replaced caps, wires, rotors, all BOSH.

Does anyone think it could be from NOT changing backing plates and or seals on distributes.
Or Coil.
Also the tank was drained as the fuel looked bad / smelled. Filter on its way tomorrow. BOSH / MB.

Car prior to repairs was running so bad like on 4 cyilinder could it be carbon build up and can sea foam be added to fuel to see if improvement.

Thanks again Randy
 
Randy Freeman said:
What is the consensus on sea foam added to a tank of gas.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't hurt, but don't expect magic results unless the injectors were really dirty, which they shouldn't be unless it was fed cheap gas for years.

I'm partial to Red Line SI-1 injector cleaner, but it's not cheap. I generally use one bottle in a tank right after I purchase a car, but very very rarely afterwards.

If you use name-brand premium gasoline (Chevron, Shell, Mobil, Exxon, Sunoco, etc) all the time, these will have injector cleaner already added (example: Chevron gas includes Techron). The MB injectors are pretty robust, running problems are usually related to something else.

:3gears:
 
OK changed cap,rotor,wires,plugs Fuel filter but car still running so rough. Two cylinders make very little difference when wire removed ..both off same coil. Do coils fail like that or just dead ? Could it be wiring harness. Also a few times the throttle response is gone ? When this happened prior to running bad / tune up I just shut the car off and restarted and would reset if you will.

Thanks Randy
 
Each coil feeds four cylinders. If you have 4 cylinders not firing, with new caps/rotors/wires/plugs, it could be either a defective coil or the EZL.

If it's only two cylinders... could be fuel injector related, or something screwy going on with the ignition system (defective spark plug boot or wire). You can measure the resistance of the wires/boots with an ohm meter on the dead cylinders.

Just curious, for grins, have you tried disconnecting the round wire connector at the MAF and seeing if there is any change?

:scratchchin:
 
Where is the MAF located....also when it was running rough prior to tune up I stored it inside with lots of heat...started fine a week later and ran fine for 1/2 hour ?
 
Randy Freeman said:
Does this car need all the air filter and box installed to run properly
Click to expand...
YES! You can start the engine and let it idle with the airbox off, but it is NOT happy if you try to drive it with no airbox.

:mushroom1:
 
I think the O-rings are designed to keep most of the moisture out. There are slots at the bottom to allow drainage if any liquid does condense inside. If the caps are clean and dry, this shouldn't be a problem.

The insulators behind the rotor bracket can fail, but it's not common. Also, people have had defective caps or rotors out of the box, this also is not common, but makes troubleshooting very difficult when you assume new parts must be good.

Might be good to post a summary of all parts you have replaced, all tests you have performed, and what symptoms still remain...?

:detective:
 
I replaced caps, rotors, wires, fuel filter, also drained tank and checked fuel pressure off rails, at 50 psi, did a compression test and all cylinders were low like 90 but leak down test was good. I had put the car in my garage prior to all said work and blasted car with heat for a week and started and ran awesome for 1/2 hour of driving. Could it be wiring harness ..wet / moisture or some other electric causing cam sensor to be off.

Low cylinder pressure makes me think sensor as it ran so good with train like 500e power when it was dried out.
 
Also my front end was changed to 94 type prior to me owning but is not down properly as the hood adjust needs fenders removed I believe to set properly. May this be part of problem.
 
OK thanks will take a look ...just noticed the new rotors installed by mechanic are becker arnaly ...Bremi with bosh caps ...is this ok or should they all be Bosh
 
Should be OK to mix Bosch & Bremi, not likely that's the issue...

:star:
 
Randy Freeman said:
My mechanic and good friend is pissed as he says I'm just wasting MY money and HIS time as he has already installed the e3 plugs and has the Beck Arnley fuel filter and some other type of coils. He thinks that I need to trust him and get off the internet. To make things worse his connection at Lordco parts store told him s she previously worked at Mercedes and the parts ordered are direct replacement / exact same and I have no Idea. She now had Bosh Platinum plugs to replace the m3 plugs installed ?

I feel between a rock and a hard place as I get how a customer relaying info could get annoying.

These bosh parts are hard to get in Port Alberni to make my argument even weaker.

Now they just want it out of the shop. Will order the correct parts and do the work in my driveway from know on.

Live and learn ....just hope I did not lose a good friend ?
Click to expand...

gsxr said:
Any platinum spark plugs will be resistor type. They'll work, but are not recommended for the M119, as noted above.
Click to expand...

gerryvz said:
You are the customer and you should specify whatever part you want for the car.

As far as plugs are concerned, DO NOT use Platinum plugs, nor resistor plugs. Buy the Bosch F8DC4 plugs whcih are available via Amazon or via AutohauZ for under $2 apiece. Those are the correct plugs for the car. There is far more accurate and collective knowledge among the owners here on these cars than anyplace else on the planet. I have 10.5 years of ownership of my car, GSXR has 10+ years, and that's just two of us. Factor in folks like Glen, Cannoli, Jimbo, Jono, Need2Speed and a few others and you're pushing 70-80 man-years of ownership, just among those few folks. So they know best.
Click to expand...

gerryvz said:
I do not believe this statement is correct. I just purchased six Bosch F8DC4 non-resistor plugs for the rebuild of my wife's E320 wagon, and am planning to purchase eight of them to have as spares for my E500 and 560 models. They are easily available through multiple sources online, as well as through MB dealers.

This is far too important and widespread of a part for Bosch to curtail production of.

Cheers,
Gerry
Click to expand...

Many parts houses are sending out FR8DC4 in place of the correct F8DC4 non resistor.

Try finding H9DC0 for the M103, Most people are using Denso or NGK equivalent plugs
because the non resistor copper are NLA

The F8DC4 may be next.

You need to verify by e-mail or phone what you're getting.

I did the same as Dave and stocked up with 24 plugs.

Do not use resistor plugs on these cars.
 
When you say parts house does that include MB, / I just ordered from my vin, 8 and installed them ...please tell me they are the correct ones.
 
The Mercedes dealership should provide the correct plugs. It's the aftermarket vendors that are more likely to send an incorrect replacement.

:wormhole:
 
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