Funny you bring this up ...I just had to do this with my Australian Shepherd puppy tonight !!
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Opinions on the best turbo diesel to own
- Thread starter Stevester 500E
- Start date
I figured this out pretty quick, but it took a lot longer to learn what was causing the lower power issues. I (and my family members) passed up a number of otherwise great .133/.193's for sale that I would have bought, had I known it was a cheap/easy fix. I distinctly remember a couple of sellers who got mad at me when I told them something was wrong with their car, because it was low on power (my .133 being the reference point). This was ~15 years ago. Ah, the good ol' days, being young and dumb...
LOL! Seriously? They generally don't use much more fuel when making normal power, compared to being boostless. Sounds like the guy was probably sticking his foot into it and enjoying the power, and then whining about what was likely less than a 10% increase in fuel consumption. I'd have told him "ok fine, I'll make it slow again for free" and cut one of the vac hoses with my Leatherman, smiled, closed the hood, and walked away. What a tool.
Oh yeah, if you got critters you'll face that at least once!
Indeed, one of the most useful out there. Made right in my former hometown of Portland, Oregon. As are Gerber knives.
Back in the old days decades of moons ago, you could go dumpster diving at the Leatherman dumpster and find dozens of "blemish" tools that were pulled off the production line and thrown away, just for having a scratch or other minor imperfection. I used to have Leathermans coming out of my ass, but gave most of them away.
Oh, yeah that's exactly what happens! Power comes from fuel, and now his engine is actually burning some when he puts his foot in it. And yes I know the increase in consumption is minimal, because they aren't at their best drivetrain efficiency without boost by a long shot, but this old pencil necked geek had this little binder with all of his fill-ups and fuel consumption calculated and logged. Oil use logged, too. It went from averaging something like 25 around town to averaging something like 23-23.5. That's another funny thing about the diesel people. They are either the nicest, most knowledgeable and reasonable enthusiasts you've ever met, or they are complete psycho hose beast idiots. No in-betweens.
I politely and using more technically descriptive terms offered to apply your remedy to the situation. He declined the "repair"...
I think I heard Boy George say the same thing once...
This string has taken a dark turn...
I had an '87 a long time ago, like 20 years ago. I don't remember it much, except that it was plenty fast. I had it serviced at an independent shop who told me that the dealer would replace the turbo for free. They did. I was impressed as it was 10 years old with 100k+ miles on it.
No puppies, no strings.
I had an '87 a long time ago, like 20 years ago. I don't remember it much, except that it was plenty fast. I had it serviced at an independent shop who told me that the dealer would replace the turbo for free. They did. I was impressed as it was 10 years old with 100k+ miles on it.
No puppies, no strings.
Kinda reminds me of all the crazy Volvo turbo videos. That's where I am coming from to the v8 Merc.
Got a friend in Montgomery with a 740 16 valve turbo 4 that runs solid mid 10's but sounds and looks almost stock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU5CzsmjF-k
What about reliability? That is a biggie!
Somewhere on the web is a blog about one. The guy had a 7xx Volvo diesel that was an outstanding car, but he wanted something a little nicer/newer, so he grabbed a W210 diesel. The car was a nightmare from day one. His final entry was that he was getting a divorce. He didn't come right out and say it, but the implication was that one of the causes was the W210!
Honestly, I'd love to have a turbo diesel W210, but I've read too many negative reports about their poor reliability. (Mind you, I'm talking about the car, not the engine.)
Regards,
Eric
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Ähmmm....... engine swap? Idea is cool, but a lot of work... If i would swap- i´d take 124 coupe and put chevy small block in. Primitively simple, durable, a lot of power, nice sound. And i would drive it on LPG
Cheaper and better fun than ANY diesel.
^^^^This^^^^....... 'cept you should substitute a 4 door for the 2 door, forget the chevy, and forget the LPG. Run a turbo M103 on CNG instead!
Regards,
Eric
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I just wanted to state for the record that I do fully "get" the diesel thing and I really enjoy driving most of them. I have only purchased three brand-new cars in my lifetime and two of those were diesels. The Klinkette and I have put hundreds of thousands of miles on them over the years. My comments were mostly to put diesel newcomers on notice that they are not an operating economy panacea! Especially not since the demise of the 124.
I especially liked Bogeyman's reference to their "mechanical nature". Indeed one of my favorite expressions that I've used for Mercedes in general and the diesels in particular is that they have a "relentlessly mechanical nature". I wish I could claim credit for that expression but I actually got it from Patrick Bedard writing in Car and Driver magazine sometime in the 70s. Despite the fact that he meant it as a putdown, I love the expression and thought it really captured the essence of these vehicles and I still do even now.
But do realize there is nothing truly mechanical in the nature of the MB diesel that we have had in the USA since 05, the later versions of these engines having vastly more electronic complexity than their gasoline engine contemporaries, and as a result now compare less favorably to their gasoline contemporaries for repair and maintenance expense. Yet, they still feel "relentlessly mechanical", and for that reason they really are a joy to drive, specially to some of us older folks.
In an ironic way this is another area in which the diesel versus gas paradigm has been turned on its head. The post '04 diesels with their magnificent torque characteristics are kind of the "drivers" choice! Even the new four-cylinder is a happy thrumming joy. But OMG people, from about '05 on these things are complicated! I mean you have no idea how much so...
I really relate to this post.
In the early 80s in a different C&D article, a different author said: "There is something so perversely mechanical about a diesel". He didn't mean it as a putdown. I too love that expression and have repeated it often through the years.
I agree that diesels are in many ways not worth the trouble. You gotta pay through the nose for them and then you don't really save any money. But I just LOVE their "perversely mechanical" nature!
Regards,
Eric
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An M103 with two turbochargers on it rocks. And an M103 3.6 with a manual tranny ain't so bad either. Not that either would be adequate for a G, especially one driven by a G.
This could be a good suggestion for 400Eric as well. I'd bet one of his "Benzer" models with an M103 twin-turb setup could cook the E500Es at the race track and bring his long-standing quest to an end.
So wrong. At the moment, the air cleaner mounts on my W123 are broken. This morning, as I drove through the parking garage while arriving at work, the panties and garters were literally falling off of the chicks as I passed them. I needed a sack for all the phone numbers and hotel room keys they threw me.
Well then, together with the PM I received previously with the images of pretty women digging W123 models, I stand corrected.
Well, you have noticed how I modified my sig after I got Benzer5 haven't you?
I finally have an M103 worthy of the effort. The first two really aren't because they have too many miles on them. But Benzer5 is just barely broke in!
Regards,
Eric
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Not all W124 diesels are expensive: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/4615346135.html
1995 MERCEDES E-CLASS 300 DIESEL - $2250 (LOS ANGELES)
1995 MERCEDES E-CLASS 300 DIESEL. 447,000 MILES - THIS IS A MILLION MILE MOTOR -- JUST BROKEN IN! NO SMOG NEEDED, GETS GREAT MILEAGE, AIR WORKS, SELLING AS IS. $2250 OR BEST OFFER.
CALL ART @ 559-906-9906
1995 MERCEDES E-CLASS 300 DIESEL. 447,000 MILES - THIS IS A MILLION MILE MOTOR -- JUST BROKEN IN! NO SMOG NEEDED, GETS GREAT MILEAGE, AIR WORKS, SELLING AS IS. $2250 OR BEST OFFER.
CALL ART @ 559-906-9906
Attachments
A good ad writer would say it has "appropriate patina"!
I haven't heard the praises or comments completely. I personally would look at newer diesels. 2005-2006 W211 chassis to be specific. Then, you are in the 80-120,000 mile range on a used car where it is still very reliable, but well depreciated. W124's are too old to be generally good condition. Excepts, yes but not so much.
Bluetech V6's might be fine, but they will be a lot harder to service than Pre 2007 cars.
I'm looking for a nice 2006 W211 CDI w a panoramic roof =0)
Michael
Bluetech V6's might be fine, but they will be a lot harder to service than Pre 2007 cars.
I'm looking for a nice 2006 W211 CDI w a panoramic roof =0)
Michael
Here are some Diesels for sale for you .....
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/183/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/83/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/181/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/194/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/119/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/196/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/195/
And a few you missed out on ......
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/184/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/198/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/200/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/183/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/83/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/181/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/194/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/119/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/196/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/195/
And a few you missed out on ......
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/184/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/198/
http://mercedesmotoring.com/cars/200/
If the power is normal and it doesn't consume oil, I wouldn't care about the odometer reading, although with those miles I'd expect the transmission to be on its last legs (assuming it is original and never rebuilt).
You could always smash the left rear side to make it symmetrical.
Seriously, that is a parts car... but it isn't priced as one.
I really enjoy looking at their photography. Reminds me of the beautiful photography in the MBUSA brochures from those eras.
Yes, you do indeed seem to have quite a penchant for visual things....
This particular european spec non turbo has been back with him for sale several times. Few years ago I spoke with them and asked to let me know if ever they have one in this particular color, thistle green 881.
Some time after, I had was notified that this was due to arrive in their inventory, originally delivered to a northern european city and then California. We chatted back and forth about it and then I realized it was not A/C equipped. We chatted further about the possibility of retrofitting one with factory parts, but cost would be a bit substantial. In the end that, and because it was not a manual deterred the deal.
Nice looking euro spec sedan, lotsa nice goodies like the thick rubber all weather mats and fire extinguisher.
Nooo.. "You guys are too focused on the body. How about those miles? It's really comical that he claims it's just broken in. Like 447,000 miles doesn't mean anything. Like it's nothing. No biggie."
Absolutely a player- REGARDLESS of oil consumption. To paraphrase Stu Ritter, the diesel MB engine runs at it's best the day before it blows up! Ring/bore wear is generally minimal with the tight mb tolerances if oil changes are done regularly. BUT that poor 1 st ring get minimal wear. Failure at some point is that the carbon/ring wear the ring groove to excess. Then the ring will flex conically which it cannot handle- and it breaks.
Michael
Absolutely a player- REGARDLESS of oil consumption. To paraphrase Stu Ritter, the diesel MB engine runs at it's best the day before it blows up! Ring/bore wear is generally minimal with the tight mb tolerances if oil changes are done regularly. BUT that poor 1 st ring get minimal wear. Failure at some point is that the carbon/ring wear the ring groove to excess. Then the ring will flex conically which it cannot handle- and it breaks.
Michael
Been there done that on the 123 AC retrofit. Also been there done that converting one of the Chrysler Servosystem cars to manual euro. In each case I had donor cars for parts. Did the conversion for myself, did the retrofit for a friend. I could not imagine an honest to goodness paying customer paying enough for the job to not have made it a complete dealbreaker...
I think that i'd rather shoot myself then do that conversion.
I will concur with the "seem to run their best just before they disintegrate" IMO, they also run their best after they develop about a 1 quart in the crankcase per fuel tank fill up drinking habit, a state in which they can often run for years. However I must say that I have never seen an old Benz diesel fail in any way that one might imagine as normal. In almost every case I have ever seen, the vacuum pump reciprocating parts fell to pieces and entered the timing chain. The other way, very common, is that someone loans one of these cars with an oil drinking habit to someone and they empty the crankcase and sieze it up. If they manage to escape either of these fates (and they almost never do, those two causes are what scatter the vast majority of them) non-turbo 61 series engines will break a crankshaft sometime between 600 and and a Mil. Turbo 61 series will break a crankshaft sometime between 400 and 500K. Still not exactly crappy service life. Of course now days the french fry, biofuel, whatever contingent is destroying these engines at a rapid rate.
In this extremely protracted sense, the jury is kind of still out on the later four valve motors, though I have driven a couple with 300 K plus that still seemed fine and their owners claimed little to no oil consumption. Same for the straight six CDI motor (think model years 05 and 06 here in the land of the free).
That was spoken like a man that has done it, or had at least attempted it. If faced with it again, I will just shoot myself...
+10. Gives me the heebie-jeebies just thinking about it.
It was in 1990 and I still have flashbacks: "the horror, the horror..."
Iirc he estimated somewhere around $3-4k verbally. I was not sure if he would do the work himself or not. He did say that he would rather the car stayed "as factory".
A year after that, I eventually found another similar mileage euro spec thistle green sedan in Ohio that fit my requirements.
I feel a rant a-comin' ...... watch out !!
Ever rolled down the street behind a crusty old light tan 123 (German taxi color) wagon that is polluting the air with french fry smoke? The stuff's worse than the particulate that the normal engines belch into the air !!
The owners and shop foreman of my former indy shop in Portland, MBI Motors, used to majorly roll their eyes when the hipsters would roll in with one of their rat-rods and ask to have it converted (or fixed). I saw some real sludge and worse with some of those things. The mechanics hated working on them, and the Diesel Hipsters never had more than about $50-60 (about 0.75 hour at the $80 hourly billing rate back then) to spend at any one time on repairs, so things were usually done on a shoestring.
And the Diesel Hipster Repellent factor...I almost forgot !! I used to LOVE starting up my 300SEL 6.3 and letting its 8 MPG, delicious, throaty M100.981 blow loads of unfiltered, uncatalysed exhaust in their faces. It was easy to get dizzy from the carbon monoxide that thing's exhaust let off. Sort of like when I use Deep Woods Off! some summer nights when I work out in the shop to ward off the mosquitoes.
You think I'm lying/exaggerating?!?
Indeed, aka the Mercedes Motoring dudes. I trademarked a certain term for these types about 10 years ago, when I lived in Portland, OR ... which is the epicenter for this movement. They're called "Diesel Hipsters," and they convert 115s, 123s, 124s and 126s (generally six-won-ex powered) to run on the grizz that the flash-fryers of their local restaurants produce. The Diesel Hipsters in Portland had a special circuit around the downtown and inner North, Northeast and Southeast areas of the city, where they would go around to numerous restaurants and collect their precious fry-goo and use it to power their Franken-diesel-mobiles.
Ever rolled down the street behind a crusty old light tan 123 (German taxi color) wagon that is polluting the air with french fry smoke? The stuff's worse than the particulate that the normal engines belch into the air !!
The owners and shop foreman of my former indy shop in Portland, MBI Motors, used to majorly roll their eyes when the hipsters would roll in with one of their rat-rods and ask to have it converted (or fixed). I saw some real sludge and worse with some of those things. The mechanics hated working on them, and the Diesel Hipsters never had more than about $50-60 (about 0.75 hour at the $80 hourly billing rate back then) to spend at any one time on repairs, so things were usually done on a shoestring.
And the Diesel Hipster Repellent factor...I almost forgot !! I used to LOVE starting up my 300SEL 6.3 and letting its 8 MPG, delicious, throaty M100.981 blow loads of unfiltered, uncatalysed exhaust in their faces. It was easy to get dizzy from the carbon monoxide that thing's exhaust let off. Sort of like when I use Deep Woods Off! some summer nights when I work out in the shop to ward off the mosquitoes.
You think I'm lying/exaggerating?!?
"You think I'm lying/exaggerating?!?"
Oh no, I'm familiar with the species. We have them here too, but I'm sure they are a lot thicker on the ground up there in the Northwest. Down here they ask "what would Jesus do?" Up there I'm sure they guess to themselves "what would Curt drive?"
Oh no, I'm familiar with the species. We have them here too, but I'm sure they are a lot thicker on the ground up there in the Northwest. Down here they ask "what would Jesus do?" Up there I'm sure they guess to themselves "what would Curt drive?"
http://www.carscoops.com/2009/09/back-to-future-benz-mercedes-retrofits.html
bam !
Where can I order one ?
bam !
Where can I order one ?
If the power is normal and it doesn't consume oil, I wouldn't care about the odometer reading, although with those miles I'd expect the transmission to be on its last legs (assuming it is original and never rebuilt).
You could always smash the left rear side to make it symmetrical.
Seriously, that is a parts car... but it isn't priced as one.
I found that thing while looking for a reasonably priced non-brand specific diesel. (This thread made me do it.) I for the longest time wanted a W123 or W124 diesel but finally gave up as for me the ROI just wasn't there. This recent search confirms that, if anything, things are even worse now. Frustrating. I guess I'll have to remain satisfied with my 304,xxx mile Volvo 740 turbo diesel. It's not a bad car really, just seriously knappy!
So what is the OP going to go with?
Regards,
Eric
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The problem is as you said ..... Diesel Hipsters never have more than about $50-60 to spend at any one time
I forgot to mention. We call the fry oil people "Griesels". Fortunately they seldom come near a dealer except now and then to check on some "Secret warranty" that they read about on the Internet...
I tell you, I've seen some nice, golden French fries inside of 61X trap oxidizers that have been cut open.
They have actually turned out to be damn good, which surprised many of us considering it's complexity. Then again, we did not get that engine here in the USA until it had already been used elsewhere for quite some time. I have seen a couple of those now at 300 K that have not experienced a major problem.
It's fine. Only SBC freaks people out, but it shouldn't.
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