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OWNER - Jelmer

No, it was the curbs that I kept smashing into.... too much understeer.

Yeah I remember seeing this on TV.. you were doing 150mph and chased by cops, right? ...But remember next time: in Texas, only Texans steal banks :D
 
Dumdydumdydummmmm

Will be installed on Thursday. I'm happy :)
 

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There are two things my car is good at doing:
- Annoy me by having another broken component that I didn't even knew existed;
- Make me happy by driving even better than expected

The first point is because my mechanic found some dried coolant below the exhaust. This means I'll probably have to come back soon* to have my head gaskets replaced. Bugger.

The second bit, however, is because of the replaced engine mounts. I was a bit sad when I returned my loaner with a 5L M117 in it, and got my own car back. The M117 was sooo smooth, and my engine has been shaking from the beginning. Now, with the engine mounts replaced, it's a world of difference. At traffic lights, it's silent. Dead silent. The only indication you have that the engine is running is because of the RPM gauge. Amazing.

Starting feels better, accelerating feels better and cruising feels better. Just when I thought it couldn't get any better. There are no rattles, no squeaks, no rubber bits past their lifetime.

I'm really flabbergasted. I thought I knew my car. Guess I was wrong. For those with engine mounts somewhere way down on the to-do list: I'd recommend biting the bullet and going for it. You won't be disappointed. In its current state, it's very hard to convince yourself this car has driven 200k km and is 20 years old.

The only exterior bits that need work are the speck of rust on the passenger door, a bit of rust in the trunk (bah) and the plastic bit in front of the rear wheels, where the paint is falling off. That'll be taken care of in two weeks.

The last bit of good news is that my Rials have finally been installed. Again: what a difference. Yes, it's slightly more stiff, you feel bumps and other nasty stuff more, but it's sooo worth it. Not just because of the looks, but also because of the handling. I've only gotten to 160/170kmh, but that already felt much more secure, somehow. Less wobbly, less effort to keep it going straight.

When summer finally comes, I'll make some proper pictures, for now, these will have to do.

I hope you guys agree with me: this looks much better than the original look! (And yes, I still need spacers - soon!)

I'm happy. Very happy. What a machine.
 

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The first point is because my mechanic found some dried coolant below the exhaust. This means I'll probably have to come back soon* to have my head gaskets replaced. Bugger.
Jelmer, FYI. I would ignore the dried coolant unless you are experiencing ongoing minor coolant loss that is traced to the head gaskets, or if there are other symptoms. I wouldn't say this is 'normal' but I've seen this on almost every one of my M119's, including the motor with - wait for it - almost brand new head gaskets. You won't be a happy muppet if you shell out >$4k USD for the job and find the same problem a year later. I'd wait for the symptoms to become a lot more serious before you mess with this.

:wormhole:
 
Thanks for the heads-up. Mechanic dude told me more or less the same, so for now I'll just keep a good eye on the coolant level. I can't remember actually loosing coolant, even after the 800km Germany drive. I'll still keep it in mind, though.
 
Jelmer,

This was something I have been wondering about for a long time: engine mounts: My records indicate that my engine mounts were changed 4K miles before I got the car from the previous owner. I have since put 23K miles on the car.

The car is definitely not smooth when idling at lights. the idle seems even but the vibrations get transferred through the car. They claim the mounts were replaced with MB ones. I replaced the trans mount with an MB one as well.

Any ideas?

By the way I also had an uneven idle but as I have eliminated a few vac leaks it has evened out. There is just the occasional stumble I mentioned in another post which I do not think it related to vac leaks.
 
Jelmer,

This was something I have been wondering about for a long time: engine mounts: My records indicate that my engine mounts were changed 4K miles before I got the car from the previous owner. I have since put 23K miles on the car.

The car is definitely not smooth when idling at lights. the idle seems even but the vibrations get transferred through the car. They claim the mounts were replaced with MB ones. I replaced the trans mount with an MB one as well.

Any ideas?

By the way I also had an uneven idle but as I have eliminated a few vac leaks it has evened out. There is just the occasional stumble I mentioned in another post which I do not think it related to vac leaks.
Click here for a quick & dirty method to check engine mount condition. Good used mounts should still be >20mm. Anywhere around 18-17mm (or less) means it's very likely the mounts have collapsed. If you do replace them, check the date code stamped on the OE/OEM mounts, this will tell you how old the mounts are.

:mushroom1:
 
Thanks Dave, I will check it out. I just talked to the shop that did the mounts. They swear they used MB parts and they charged the PO $185 for both which is unbelievable. They said they were giving him discounts because he maintains all of his 9 cars there and they also get 50% off for MB parts from different suppliers. That all sounds pretty shady to me. When I asked them why do I feel the engine at the traffic lights and they said that it must be the harmonic balancer.

I am concerned the mounts are not MB, but what about other sources of vibration?
 
Hey Mr. Special...did you replace the transmission mount as well, or has it been already replaced?
Hey Mr. JAFO... Negative, no other bits of rubber were replaced because they all checked out.

ivanned: I'd say if you feel any engine vibration inside the cabin, there's something wrong with the engine mounts. I felt a distinctive continuous vibration at idle before, now I feel none. Another easy check is if your air intake hoses (especially the driver-side one) jumps off of its headlight mount. In that case the engine sits too low and the hose simply jumps off after a bit.
 
Kewl. As you were...
Yes, mi lord.

For those interested, attached are pictures of my old engine mounts next to a new set. I think this is as bad as you can get them: my engine was actually hitting chassis parts at certain moments ... o_O
 

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Yes, mi lord.

For those interested, attached are pictures of my old engine mounts next to a new set. I think this is as bad as you can get them: my engine was actually hitting chassis parts at certain moments ... o_O
Damn, that's at least 1.5 inches of height added with new mounts.
 
Thanks Dave, I will check it out. I just talked to the shop that did the mounts. They swear they used MB parts and they charged the PO $185 for both which is unbelievable. They said they were giving him discounts because he maintains all of his 9 cars there and they also get 50% off for MB parts from different suppliers. That all sounds pretty shady to me.
The price sounds like they installed OEM mounts, Boge or Lemforder, assuming they're charging him close to their cost (i.e., minimal markup). Interestingly, the dealer LIST price for "Genuine Mercedes" engine mount 124-240-26-17 was $185 each back in 2008. In 2009 they were $210 list. Current price (March-2013) is $268, which is insane. You can still get Lemforders for <$100/ea. Might be a typo on the receipt? Or maybe they only replaced one at $185?



When I asked them why do I feel the engine at the traffic lights and they said that it must be the harmonic balancer.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Pure, weapons-grade baloneyum. *chuckle*



I am concerned the mounts are not MB, but what about other sources of vibration?
90% likely to be the mounts. Maybe 95%. The remaining few percent would be the rear (trans) mount or ignition misfires, and with your new ignition system, I doubt that's an issue.


:hornets:
 
Jeez Dave these mounts are 25 K miles old. Would I notice difference between MB and the rest mounts? From what Jelmer is describing I should not feel the engine at lights but I do slightly. I guess I will measure the gap that you mentioned and see. These same shop rebuilt the tranny: throttle body and torque converter. I hope they didn't mess anything up there. I have vibration not at N or P but just when I am in gear. It is independent of RPM.
 
I think OE MB mounts will be essentially identical to the OEM (Lemforder, Boge) mounts. With only 25kmi, they shouldn't be bad. Again, the measurement will help determine this, but you need a pretty accurate measurement. If you feel the engine SLIGHTLY, that's different than feeling the engine noticeably. When you slowly rev the engine to ~3000rpm in park/neutral, it shouldn't shake the car, it should be smooth all the way up & down.

Vibration levels are pretty subjective, it's tough to diagnose over the interwebs. Ideally you'd compare to a couple other cars with M119 engines (400E, S500, etc).

:mushroom:
 
I give up.

This is how my wheels look, the first time after taking a car wash. Probably a faulty paint type. *sigh*
s_IMAG0520.jpg

First time on the freeway in ~20C weather, I saw my temp gauge rise to "slightly higher than expected", so I thought I'd test what would happen with A/C on. Well, this.
s_IMAG0527.jpg

After a while, even this.
s_IMAG0532.jpg

Yes, I was in third gear for a bit to test if that would make a difference. And no, it didn't get down. I'm not sure if my fans were on (they are not loud enough to hear) but I doubt that would matter.

I have enough and the right type of coolant, despite the small leak my mechanic found, a new radiator, cleaned my AC radiator, a new thermostat, nothing blocking my airflow. Seriously, what the f*ck?

I can think of a few things:
- Water pump. I've been doubting this for ages, but always get told that can't be it. I might be inexperienced with these cars, but my gut feeling is often right.
- Ignition/fuel stuff. My engine is still doing it's wobbling every few seconds at idle, so at freeway speeds that might lead to 10-20 misfires a second? Might heat everything up insanely.
- Aux fans are turning the wrong way when triggered by AC pressure. Dunno why, just thought of this. Why else would switching on the AC (which works fine, by the way) cause such a temperature rise?
- My dash gauge is screwed up. All temp sensors have recently been replaced, though.

Never a dull moment with these cars.
 
Hi Jelmer

Since the AC heat exchanger is in front of the radiator, I thought a slight temp increase was normal since the heated air from the AC heat exchanger will pass through the radiator.

Pity if the new paint on your wheels doesn't resist regular degreaser/solvents. Pretty unusual these days isn't it? It looks like contamination left from degreasing the car, so it may it go away if you degrease the wheels over again. It's important that the degreaser doesn't dry up on any painted surfaces, or exposed to direct sun radiation. And it has to be flushed properly away.
 
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Arnt,

It's hardly a "slight temp increase", don't you think? Oh, well. We'll see ;)

About the wheels: they have been completely stripped of paint in some sort of toxic bath. I think the powder coating is still there, just not the top lacquer layer. The shop who did this job offered to re-do it, thankfully.
 
OMG !! My wheels, my wheels !! What have you done to my Rials?!?! :o

Seriously, on your temperature situation. I don't care what ANYONE says, these cars run hot ... hotter than other W124s and hotter than my 126s. I ran my E500 all winter and I tell you, in cool weather (under 20C) it tends to run at a "normal" (85-90C) temperature and stays there with little variation.

Generally, above 25C outside temp I ALWAYS have my A/C system on. Above 20C outside temperatures, the car goes 90-95C. Above 30C outside temperatures, the car goes 95-105C depending if normal driving, sitting in traffic or driving extremely fast/hard. I know for a fact that my 100% stock cooling system is functioning 100%. My fans cycle on and off as they are supposed to, and as appropriate when the A/C is on. This includes the fan clutch operating correctly.

In hot (>30C) outside temps the car is going to run hot, and there's NOTHING that you can really do about it unless you want to have your fans on all the time.

I have learned, since moving to Houston, NOT to freak out when my car hits 100-105C indicated coolant temps. In our climate, this is normal. In the much cooler Portland, Oregon climate, I don't think I ever saw my car above 95C in 5+ years. And I confirm that here in Houston, over the winter. The car is rock solid at 85-90C. As soon as the outside temp climbs, the coolant temp climbs as well. Not running A/C will remove 2-4C from the coolant temp.

My 126-chassis cars tend to run cooler, because of better air circulation in and around the engine compartment. 87-92C is the norm, with things getting up to 95C in the heat of summer and even 100C if sitting for a LONG time at a stop light, with the A/C on and 35C+ outside temperatures in July/August. I have also found my SEC to run a few degrees hotter than the SEL due to less frontal area / airflow on the radiator than the more upright/exposed grill of the 560SEL.

I think you are fine, Jelmer. I really do.

Cheers,
Gerry
 
Jelmer - in the winter did you car frequently run at temps less than 80*C? Or, did it take a long time for the temp to reach 80*C?
 
Sorry to hear about your recent woes, Jelmer. :(

Your engine temp is higher than it should be for 20C (68F) ambient temps, even with the AC on. You'll need to do some additional troubleshooting; i.e. verify the factory electric fans are running (and in the proper direction, lol), verify you primary fans are running as expected, etc. Also - was this in stop & go traffic, or while cruising along at >40kph? Not likely to be ignition/fuel related or a bad dash gauge, although you can verify the latter using an IR thermometer.

Was the new t-stat OE/Mercedes? Behr is the OEM for the "early" t-stat used through approx 1994. Wahler is OEM for the "late" t-stat used as of approx 1995. New / recent / correct 1.4 bar Reutter (OEM) radiator cap? System pressure tested and verified to hold pressure steady without dropping?

Make sure the upper radiator hose is hot all the way from the engine to the radiator, indicating proper coolant flow... also check if the lower radiator hose is at least warm (this is with the engine temp >100C). If you have a CoolHarness, verify that the aux fans trigger on high speed at the expected temperature... if you don't have one, trigger temp is 107C and it doesn't look like you're quite reaching that point yet.

:detective:
 
Hi, do we really trust the temp meter to be true? Independent electronique meter should tell the trueth.
About the rims, was it only degreaser, or wheelcleaner, that's very aggressive, I know from experience and only use
dishwasher soap now. BTW found for sale now, 450€ Roger

Ps if they redo the rims, colormatch the center caps also
 

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Good question, Roger... what cleaner was used on the wheels at the carwash, if any? Still, even standard degreaser should not have caused that kind of paint damage!

:wormhole:
 
Jelmer,
I suggest the use of a digital infrared thermometer for troubleshooting (handheld IR gun). I you were in the states, you could buy one from Amazon for $40 or a cheapie from Harbor Freight for $20 or less.

Shoot the radiator, condensor, hoses, etc to determine their localized temps. You can also use it to verify gauge temps. Quite a handy little tool. Shoot boiling H2O to calibrate.

I live in a climate that sees 68 to 72 degrees for six months of the year most days. Since I've owned my car, I've never seen over 100C on my gauge. I do think you have a problem to solve, assuming your sender / gauge combo is working properly.

Good luck!

Doug
 
+1 with Doug. Please note that the IR thermometers will not read accurately on certain bare aluminum surfaces, nor shiny/chrome surfaces. You may need to apply dark tape, or spray a bit of flat black paint, on the area you want to measure. The readings will be lower than actual if you don't do this, which could lead you to think your gauge is wrong, when it may not be.

Doug, does your car stay under 100C even with the AC on, idling in traffic, in 72F ambients? The AC adds some heat load which can boost temps a bit as Gerry noted above.

:mushroom1:
 
IMHO there's a bit of confusion here and "broad-brush" painting of temps, as if they're the same under all scenarios.

I think it's important to delineate between temps in the following operational scenarios:

- normal surface road driving
- idling at stop lights, particularly for long periods (3-5 minutes)
- hard/fast driving over 120 km/hr

When sitting at a stoplight for 5 minutes in high ambient temperatures (30C or higher), it is NOT unusual for the car to climb well over 100C indicated on the gauge. My car will bounce up to 110C briefly! A properly operating cooling system will bounce back down with fan activation, and also will bounce back down quickly after the car starts moving.

If the car is over 100C indicated when the car is moving (and has been moving for some kms) in hot (>20C) temperatures with the A/C on, then yes there is a problem. In these ambient temps between 20 and 30C, if the car is indicating 90-95C with the A/C on, I absolutely do not consider this to be an issue.

Cheers,
Gerry
 
+1 with Doug. Please note that the IR thermometers will not read accurately on certain bare aluminum surfaces, nor shiny/chrome surfaces. You may need to apply dark tape, or spray a bit of flat black paint, on the area you want to measure. The readings will be lower than actual if you don't do this, which could lead you to think your gauge is wrong, when it may not be.

Doug, does your car stay under 100C even with the AC on, idling in traffic, in 72F ambients? The AC adds some heat load which can boost temps a bit as Gerry noted above.

:mushroom1:

My A/C is always on. I guess if nothing else for de-humidify. I haven't sat in much traffic, lucky for me. I did let the car idle in my garage for fifteen minutes @ 75F ambient and it hits 100C and the big fans upfront kick on and bring it down to 85C or 86C (wherever the thermostat initially opens). **Note, I installed my own cheap version of cool-harness. I bought a $0.50 resistor at Radio Shack and soldered it into the harness connectors for the temp sender for the HVAC unit. In temps where I live, the fans rarely kick on. I'm aware of the pros and cons to the mod and am happy with my decision to modify.

**Note 2...I was surprised how much the temp gauge cycles on these cars. more modern cars seem to just stay at a certain temp. I think the ECU just interprets and we don't really see exactly what's going on, unless we plug in some sort of OBDII adaptor for the realtime data.

**Note 3, My IR gun validated the temps as displayed on the engine temp gauge. I explored / tested this a bit after changing the thermostat and doing the cool harness mod.

Doug
 
OMG !! My wheels, my wheels !! What have you done to my Rials?!?!
Had them completely stripped to the bare metal, and applied a new powder coating. The coating is still there - it's just the top layer that somehow wasn't car-wash proof o_O

I think you are fine, Jelmer. I really do.
Thanks, you might be right and I'm just over-thinking this, but I don't think so... The difference between AC off and on is HUGE.

Jelmer - in the winter did you car frequently run at temps less than 80*C? Or, did it take a long time for the temp to reach 80*C?
Nope. Heater kicked in quickly and then it jumped to a level 85C and stayed there.

i.e. verify the factory electric fans are running (and in the proper direction, lol), verify you primary fans are running as expected, etc. Also - was this in stop & go traffic, or while cruising along at >40kph? Not likely to be ignition/fuel related or a bad dash gauge, although you can verify the latter using an IR thermometer.
They always did work OK, and also in the right direction (I used a CH92 for a while, so had them roaring quite often). Primary fans, I should check them. Maybe re-write an LED into the cabin to show whether or not they are on. I changed the temp setting now, though, so they kick in much sooner, and stay on longer. If it's HOT (20C... right) again tomorrow, I'll repeat the test. That said - these images and the heat came at 100-120km/h, and even 160km/h didn't change it at all - I firmly believe WIND would be enough to cool anything down.

I'll take my IR thermometer with me, tomorrow.

Was the new t-stat OE/Mercedes? Behr is the OEM for the "early" t-stat used through approx 1994. Wahler is OEM for the "late" t-stat used as of approx 1995. New / recent / correct 1.4 bar Reutter (OEM) radiator cap? System pressure tested and verified to hold pressure steady without dropping?
Yes, it was OE. Not sure which brand, though. Correct and new cap, and I believe it holds pressure properly, since the coolant level isn't dropping.

Make sure the upper radiator hose is hot all the way from the engine to the radiator, indicating proper coolant flow... also check if the lower radiator hose is at least warm (this is with the engine temp >100C). If you have a CoolHarness, verify that the aux fans trigger on high speed at the expected temperature... if you don't have one, trigger temp is 107C and it doesn't look like you're quite reaching that point yet.
That hose is VERY hot. I'll fiddle with the return hose, and your tip of the CH is a good one - I'll put it back in, and if they don't trigger when I see that high temp on my dash gauge, I know something else is amiss.

Roger, yes, they used an aggressive wheel cleaner, but I'd say the specialized wheelpaint should be able to cope with that.

BTW found for sale now, 450€ Roger
Rials? No way... Please don't tell me I paid €1000 too much? :-P

Gerry, as I wrote before: I was cruising at 100-120km/h for a few minutes and that temperature level didn't drop - not even after shutting the AC off and waiting a minute or two! When I slammed my heater to max, it dropped like a brick to 85C, remained there shortly, and then went up to ~90-95C again - AND REMAINED THERE. Even with the heater OFF.


I'm going to test EVERY part I can next time with my IR thermometer - to be continued :)


P.S.: What's good to know is that I've not been able to run my AC reliably for a long time now. Maybe it was OK when I got it (or I didn't pay attention to the gauge :)), but last summer I've hadn't had the AC on for longer periods of time.
 
Gerry, as I wrote before: I was cruising at 100-120km/h for a few minutes and that temperature level didn't drop - not even after shutting the AC off and waiting a minute or two!
That is odd. I would not expect 105C engine temps in 68F ambients at those speeds. :scratchchin:


When I slammed my heater to max, it dropped like a brick to 85C, remained there shortly, and then went up to ~90-95C again - AND REMAINED THERE. Even with the heater OFF.
Stabilizing at 90-95C with the AC on is normal, but you should not need to run the heater to achieve that.


:detective:
 
Thanks, you might be right and I'm just over-thinking this, but I don't think so... The difference between AC off and on is HUGE.
So I wonder if your car's engine develops less power when it's running hotter.....
 
That's very hard to test, unfortunately. If anything, my gut tells me it's even quicker - I had a few "whoa, where are you going???" moments when the gauge was up at 110C.
 
Hmmm ... that's interesting because in the past when I've dyno'd my car, and run it near back-to-back at the drag strip, generally power goes DOWN the hotter/heat-soaked out the car is...
 
Sorry to hear that you are on this temp issue again, JB, we've probably been to the moon and back with this. Long and short of this, as stated by many, it ain't right at that temp if you're cruzin on flat roads at 100-120kmh and barely 20c outsied!

As for the rims I'm glad they're redoing 'em - not good! Question, is that purely by high pressure wash or did you spray stuff on them first, if so did you cool them down first before spraying stuff ? You can go all out and buy all these Solvents/wheel cleaners, get this get that, this stuff is the best this stuff is crap, but frankly nothing beats by just cleaning them once a week with dishwashing liquid with a bucket of water and sponge. Of course it's not always possible to do it once a week but trust me it's the safest way! Trouble is when brake dusts bakes in, then you're chasing with a toothbrush and all kinds of money making stuff.
 
I have tended to use "quick detailer" (i.e. Meguiar's, Griot's Garage, Autoglym, Mothers,etc.) on the wheels to do a quick clean-up at the occasion of every fuel fill-up.
 
Thanks, Bing. Yeah, this issue has been plaguing me from the start - I will not rest before completely solving it! ;)

I know I shouldn't use the car wash, but it's so quick and easy... Just didn't have the time for handwash. Still glad I got this result now, though. Imagine me washing it manually for a year, while they slowly lose their shine -- the shop wouldn't re-do them, then!
 
I know I shouldn't use the car wash, but it's so quick and easy... Just didn't have the time for handwash.
Never, ever take your 036 to a car wash....unless you are high or drunk, at which time that would be acceptable as an excuse. If I loaned my 036 to a friend who took my car to a car wash and while I would respect the good intention...that person would no longer be my friend and would end up paying for new scratches...and might get his ass kicked on top of it all.
 
Never, ever take your 036 to a car wash....unless you are high or drunk, at which time that would be acceptable as an excuse. If I loaned my 036 to a friend who took my car to a car wash and while I would respect the good intention...that person would no longer be my friend and would end up paying for new scratches...and might get his ass kicked on top of it all.

AMEN :angel2:
 
Here are a few photos taken of my car tonight, around 9PM Central time. Ambient temp was 18C (64F).

First, en route (45 MPH road) to pick up my son at church youth group. Next, sitting at a stop light for a couple of minutes. Lastly, sitting for 5+ minutes in the parking lot of the church, idling with the parking brake on.

You can see that my car never gets beyond (indicated) 92C or so. The A/C was NOT on (would need to add 2-3 degrees if it was on).

The photo names are also time-stamped...

To my point .. even after idling 5+ minutes in moderate temps, the car never got above 92C or so... and actually cooled back down a few degrees on its own.

Cheers,
Gerry
 

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