Pinion Seal Leak

[luckymike]

Well that's just GREAT. Took a banzai run to Burbank and back a couple days ago and when we got home, I discovered oil drips at the rear of the car. Huh?

Looks like the pinion seal has failed. I've read the manual and it doesn't look horrible, just not pleasant.

Anyone done this job? Used stop leak? Unmotivated owner here...

 

[gsxr]

Well that's just GREAT. Took a banzai run to Burbank and back a couple days ago and when we got home, I discovered oil drips at the rear of the car. Huh?

Looks like the pinion seal has failed. I've read the manual and it doesn't look horrible, just not pleasant.

Anyone done this job? Used stop leak? Unmotivated owner here...

I've done the job. It's not fun if you don't have a lift. Pretty sure you'll need to loosen the center bearing support (not fun with exhaust in place) to allow the driveshaft to move forward a couple inches so you can extract the flex disc. Big risk here is DO NOT over-tighten the nut. Since you are likely re-using the same nut, mark it relative to the pinion and try to torque back to the original position.

Stop leak ain't gonna help - don't bother.

 

[luckymike]

"Oh, Mr. EPC Man..."

Admittedly, I'm using a free online EPC. Would someone mind confirming that either 0229979947 or 0259970047 is the correct pinion seal for a 1995 E420? VIN: WDBEA34E9SC158976.

Thank you.

 

[kegmankipp]

Mike I couldn’t recommend anything as impressive as doing the 2.65 dif swap.

Perfect time, quite cheap and much easier.

 

[a777fan]

Current isppi is showing both for your vin….

 

[gsxr]

IIRC the 2 p/n's are interchangeable, and are a slightly different design... if both are available at the dealer (call before ordering online!!), the 022- is a fraction of the price of the 025-.

 

[luckymike]

Mike I couldn’t recommend anything as impressive as doing the 2.65 dif swap.

Perfect time, quite cheap and much easier.

@kegmankipp Would you tell me more about this? I assume the 2.65 is a higher than stock ratio, yielding improved acceleration but lower top end? I drive like an old lady around town but want the triple-digit capability (and I assume better gas mileage), when I'm on a road trip.

 

[luckymike]

Current isppi is showing both for your vin….

View attachment 170639

Thank you, @a777fan I think that's odd. One is about $35 and the other is about $10 and mboemparts says neither is right. Ugh.

Edit: I see @gsxr already addressed this. Thank you.

 

[luckymike]

IIRC the 2 p/n's are interchangeable, and are a slightly different design... if both are available at the dealer (call before ordering online!!), the 022- is a fraction of the price of the 025-.

@gsxr why do you advise calling first?

 

[kegmankipp]

@kegmankipp Would you tell me more about this? I assume the 2.65 is a higher than stock ratio, yielding improved acceleration but lower top end? I drive like an old lady around town but want the triple-digit capability (and I assume better gas mileage), when I'm on a road trip.

USA stock is 2.24 to meet gas guzzler requirements. The rest of world got 2.65.

The 2.65 brings the car to life dramatically under 80 or so and is still great on the freeway. It’s how the car was originally designed.

Unless you like to bump against the top speed limiter all the time it’s a no brainer. I’d never go back to 2.24.

You didn’t drive like an old lady on JLAA’s signature Twisty Forest route.

 

[luckymike]

USA stock is 2.24 to meet gas guzzler requirements. The rest of world got 2.65.

The 2.65 brings the car to life dramatically under 80 or so and is still great on the freeway. It’s how the car was originally designed.

Unless you like to bump against the top speed limiter all the time it’s a no brainer. I’d never go back to 2.24.

You didn’t drive like an old lady on JLAA’s signature Twisty Forest route.

"You didn’t drive like an old lady on JLAA’s signature Twisty Forest route. "

Haha! That was very fun.

Do you (or anyone else) have real world figures on the gas mileage penalty? I assume there is one.

 

[nocfn]

Mike I believe GVZ has the 2.65 in his SEC. When I drove with him there was a pretty big butt dyno but we were on the freeway. Perhaps he can give a bit of a commentary on it. @gvz

 

[luckymike]

Mike I believe GVZ has the 2.65 in his SEC. When I drove with him there was a pretty big butt dyno but we were on the freeway. Perhaps he can give a bit of a commentary on it. @gvz

Thanks, Louis. That would be interesting, as well, but I really would like E420-specific feedback.

 

[kegmankipp]

I haven’t written anything down regarding before and after but it feels like it’s around 2 mpg less with 2.65 diff.

Maybe the diff, maybe that it wants me to row through the gears with my foot in the peddle???

 

[gsxr]

@kegmankipp Would you tell me more about this? I assume the 2.65 is a higher than stock ratio, yielding improved acceleration but lower top end? I drive like an old lady around town but want the triple-digit capability (and I assume better gas mileage), when I'm on a road trip.

The lower gears (higher numerical) make a big difference around town, the 2.24 gears are great for high-speed highway cruising. If your primary use is cruising on the interstate at 80-90mph, then I'd consider leaving the stock gears. But otherwise, think about the 2.65 conversion.

@gsxr why do you advise calling first?

Call your favorite local dealer, any place you can get a live person on the phone to inquire about supercessions and availability. Or, MBCC in SoCal.

USA stock is 2.24 to meet gas guzzler requirements. The rest of world got 2.65. The 2.65 brings the car to life dramatically under 80 or so and is still great on the freeway. It’s how the car was originally designed. Unless you like to bump against the top speed limiter all the time it’s a no brainer. I’d never go back to 2.24.

USA and Japan both had the 2.24 with FGS, ROW had 2.65 with SGS. But yes, if you don't spend much time cruising above 80mph, the 2.65's will be a hoot.

Do you (or anyone else) have real world figures on the gas mileage penalty? I assume there is one.

Not yet. However, I have a 2.65 that I plan to install in one of our 034's. I'm expecting the MPG penalty to be ±10% or so, but I'm very curious to find out exactly. I'm expecting minimum 5% reduction and would be surprised if it was much more than 10-12%. Maybe a 2.82 or 3.06 swap might push it to 12%+ reduction. Also depends how heavy your right foot is around town...

 

[Jlaa]

Mike I couldn’t recommend anything as impressive as doing the 2.65 dif swap.

Perfect time, quite cheap and much easier.

@kegmankipp Would you tell me more about this? I assume the 2.65 is a higher than stock ratio, yielding improved acceleration but lower top end? I drive like an old lady around town but want the triple-digit capability (and I assume better gas mileage), when I'm on a road trip.

@luckymike - I think you care primarily about high speed civility (not too low of a top end) and you care about gas mileage only in a kinda sorta way?

Well, the E500E has a 2.82 rear end, which is even shorter than @kegmankipp ’s RoW E420/400E 2.65 rear end. I have never found the E500E’s revs at triple digit speeds to be intrusive ….. probably because the M119 is such a quiet and smooth running engine.

I mean, your car has the same M119 with slightly less displacement. And, your car has the same 722.3 trans as the E500E w the same ratios (I think?). I posit that you should go with a 2.65 or 2.82 (if possible). Put her up on jackstands for a week and I’ll bring my Milwaukee ugga duggas and Home Despot garden sprayer / pressurized gear oil filler upper and we’ll knock it out!

 

[kegmankipp]

Hey Mike next time I’m down your way in my car I’ll let you drive it and you’ll see there is no going back to the GovernmentDiff

 

[TerryA]

@luckymike,
Mike unless you’re interested in “Stop Light Grandprixs” if I were you I would stick w/ the stock 2.24 differential. Don’t you already have 1st gear start? Don’t bastardize your car.

Just my Opinion

Take Care

 

[kegmankipp]

@luckymike,
Mike unless you’re interested in “Stop Light Grandprixs” if I were you I would stick w/ the stock 2.24 differential. Don’t you already have 1st gear start? Don’t bastardize your car.

Just my Opinion

Take Care

Terry the ROW, Rest of World, with the exception of Japan got the car with a 2.65 diff.

Our government bastardized our car. I just put it back to “as designed” by Mercedes at the factory.

 

[TerryA]

Terry the ROW, Rest of World, with the exception of Japan got the car with a 2.65 diff.

Our government bastardized our car. I just put it back to “as designed” by Mercedes at the factory.

@kegmankipp,
Living in California we are lucky if that’s all the government does to our cars.

 

[luckymike]

Gentlemen, this is a compelling discussion.

Each of you has presented sound arguments for each ratio.

Here are my thoughts in no particular order:

- Gas mileage is important
- Around town peppiness is not a priority.
- Fix the pinion leak with minimal down time. @Jlaa to the rescue!
- Effortless, composed and quiet high speed is important.
- Cost of repair matters.
- Quiet at speed is important. Current diff has almost 200,000 miles and seems noisy.

@gsxr Great input, as always. We are so lucky to have you.
@TerryA I really appreciate you weighing in.
@kegmankipp Same thing. You have the most applicable/direct experience since we both have E420s. Could you (responsibly...) check your revs at 80mph? I'll check mine. I believe we have the same tire circumference (215/55x16)?
@Jlaa Compelling, thoughtful and cogent (just learned that word) input, as always. And what a generous offer! It would be a pleasure to work with you on this.

I'll get a replacement seal in house and will research cost of a diff in each ratio. I also need at least one axle (torn boot) and the dealer wants $1,100 for one! Where are people finding diffs and axles these days?

 

[gsxr]

Used axles are generally fine, I'd go that route unless you really want new. I forget - is your car ASR, or non-ASR?

Some RPM data from this thread:

87mph
Axle = RPM
========
2.24 = 2700 <-- stock .034, USA spec
2.65 = 3200
2.82 = 3400
3.06 = 3700
3.27 = 3950


Here's the 80mph data:

80mph
Axle = RPM
========
2.24 = 2500 <-- stock .034, USA spec
2.65 = 2950
2.82 = 3150
3.06 = 3400
3.27 = 3650

This is with standard ~25-inch 124 tire diameter, numbers above based on a 76.0-inch rolling circumference.

036's have larger diameter tires and will be roughly 100 RPM lower at a given speed.

 

[luckymike]

Thanks, @gsxr My car is NON-ASR. Good info on 80mph revs.

 

[luckymike]

@kegmankipp FYI I'm at about 2600 at 80. Probably actually closer gsxr's 2500 when I take into account the larger circumference tires.

 

[kegmankipp]

@kegmankipp FYI I'm at about 2600 at 80. Probably actually closer gsxr's 2500 when I take into account the larger circumference tires.

I’ll get a chance to drive on Friday and will confirm and let you know.

I’m running 225/45/17 tires.

I have a Yellow Box Speedo Recalibrator to correct speed for diff swap etc. Confirmed correct settings now via gps.

 

[sheward]

I have a complete boot kit (four boots, clamps, and grease) for a non ASR 034 if you are interested.

 

[kegmankipp]

I have a complete boot kit (four boots, clamps, and grease) for a non ASR 034 if you are interested.

If Mike doesn’t buy it I will

 

[sheward]

Whoops, sorry. After verifying I am mistaken. I have TWO boots, clamps, bolts, grease, circlips, and axle nut. Everything for ONE axle for a non ASR 034. Kit no. 124 350 08 37 . Two kits for servicing one axle. Pictures to come. I somehow ended up with 2 extra 036 ASR boots.

 

[luckymike]

Whoops, sorry. After verifying I am mistaken. I have TWO boots, clamps, bolts, grease, circlips, and axle nut. Everything for ONE axle for a non ASR 034. Kit no. 124 350 08 37 . Two kits for servicing one axle. Pictures to come. I somehow ended up with 2 extra 036 ASR boots.

Thank you, @sheward. I'm interested. I'll take a quick look at the manual and see if this is something I'll be able to do.

 

[gsxr]

Thank you, @sheward. I'm interested. I'll take a quick look at the manual and see if this is something I'll be able to do.

IIRC, @liviu165 posted detailed info on this. And, there's another thread here:

How to Rebuild CV Axles | Transmission and Driveline

I just finished rebuilding my cv axles for my 300D and figured id make a DIY write up and parts list: 1. Cut the old boots off (there is a metal ring inside the smallest crease do not cut it) 2. Scoop all the old grease you can out and give them a preliminary wash with solvent to make them...

www.500eboard.co

 

[sheward]

That's a great bit of info I forgot about as well. Replacing just the boots looks rather straightforward. I'll be working on the same in the future. Thanks.

 

[luckymike]

That's a great bit of info I forgot about as well. Replacing just the boots looks rather straightforward. I'll be working on the same in the future. Thanks.

@sheward It does look straightforward. I'll message you about your boot kits.

 

[sheward]

Pictures. Sale pending..

 

[gsxr]

As FYI... in addition to different part numbers for ASR (32mm axles) and non-ASR (25mm axles), there was also a change for very late production 124's. Chassis break is C241286 / C241287, which is about March 1995 production. 036's will all use the "early" version.

NON-ASR boot kit = 124-350-08-37
ASR boot kit = 124-350-07-37

Very late production would be #09 (non-ASR) and #05 (ASR).

Some or all of these may be NLA, I'm not sure... MBCC shows no results, which is odd.

 

[sheward]

Thanks, Dave. Mikes car may fall into the late change. Any idea what the difference would be? I can't imagine what MB would have changed that would impact what's in these kits.

 

[gsxr]

Thanks, Dave. Mikes car may fall into the late change. Any idea what the difference would be? I can't imagine what MB would have changed that would impact what's in these kits.

AFAICT the difference is the width of the clamps, either 7mm or 9mm - screenshot below. The late stuff switched to narrower clamps.

Mike's chassis is C158976 which would be June 1994 production, well before the break point.

 

[luckymike]

@gsxr Is anyone tired of me saying what an incredible resource you are?

 

[TimL]

@gsxr Is anyone tired of me saying what an incredible resource you are?

 

[a777fan]

ASR axles are 32mm!?!!

 

[gsxr]

ASR axles are 32mm!?!!

Yup. Beefy suckers! Interestingly, some very early (1996 only?) W210 also had the 32mm axles, but then they switched to all thinner (25mm?) axles, complete with smaller CV joints and M10 bolts instead of M12. Yep, even on the W210 E50/E55/E60. Go figure.

 

[Bogeyman]

Here's a guy I watch on Youtube noting some differences between W124 and W210.

 

[gsxr]

Yep... early 210 headlights had bad wiring. Replacement light units had good wiring, similar to the orginal / vs replacement ETA's on the M119/M104. I was able to obtain a pair of W210 HID lights from a junkyard that were replacements, with perfect wiring... installed a set of new OEM Hella lenses and was able to make a set of effectively-new lights.

Be careful when buying used W210 lights on eBay, many sellers don't show a photo of the wiring.