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Sudden no start/crank
- Thread starter Glen
- Start date
Failed shifter bushings? Car might think its still in reverse.
Do you have battery power when you turn the key (instrument cluster lights light up)?
I would take a look under the car at the neutral safety switch area and shift linkage to see if everything looks OK there. Perhaps have someone in the car shifting the lever so you can see its movement and if anything is binding it.
Also, check the brake pedal interlock setup. As you know, the lever won't move out of PARK unless the brake pedal is depressed.
I would take a look under the car at the neutral safety switch area and shift linkage to see if everything looks OK there. Perhaps have someone in the car shifting the lever so you can see its movement and if anything is binding it.
Also, check the brake pedal interlock setup. As you know, the lever won't move out of PARK unless the brake pedal is depressed.
Yep, instrument cluster lights up normally. I'll get under the car later today and see if anything looks odd. My first thought was neutral safety switch but the locked shift lever didn't jive. The brake pedal interlock seems like the next logical place to investigate. Thanks guys.
Glen, the shifter has 2 interlocks. One is the brake pedal, the other is the ignition lock. Both can be bypassed if desired. Early 124's had neither interlock, the interlocks started showing up in mid-1989 USA model year (brake pedal at first). I think all 124's had both by 1990 US model year.
With key turned and brake pedal pressed, the shifter should move out of Park. Then see if the starter will engage in Neutral.
With key turned and brake pedal pressed, the shifter should move out of Park. Then see if the starter will engage in Neutral.
The brake pedal interlock is a cable that runs up the console to the brake arm. You may be able to detect a problem by removing the console to inspect the cable at the shifter end. The other end of the cable is accessed under the drivers footwell. This may be harder to see. I know even less about the ignition interlock.
Weird. Next up is removing the console wood checking both cables next to the shifter.
To release the shift lever, both cables should be extended, so the small spring is pushing the ball/socket away from the cable sheath.
Side note: To permanently disable either or both, cut the cable(s). The springs will keep the interlocks disabled / unlocked and return to early-124 functionality.
Please make sure you check your shifter bushings and also the functionality of the neutral safety switch, if you haven't already.
Both cables are attached to the bottom of the passenger side of the shift mechanism. Dave's photo notations are correct -- the ignition cable lock is the rearward (aft) cable, and the brake pedal lock is the forward position cable (as you are sitting in the driver's or passenger's seat looking down on the shifter mechanism).
Check the other end of the brake pedal interlock cable at the brake pedal, as well. I believe this is the more common issue as compared to the ignition interlock. There is a black sheath around the cable a few inches from the brake pedal end of the cable.
Try manipulating the cables with a long screwdriver or pliers to determine which one could be causing the issue (after a visual examination of the shifter bushings / NSS area), to see if you can manipulate the cable to move the shifter out of P. Also, the shifter must be fully in "P" to remove the key from the ignition switch, which you seemingly did last time you drove the car - perhaps another clue that the ignition interlock may not be bad since you were able to do this OK.
Both interlock cables are a 100% mechanical system -- no electronics or electrical relays.
Both cables are attached to the bottom of the passenger side of the shift mechanism. Dave's photo notations are correct -- the ignition cable lock is the rearward (aft) cable, and the brake pedal lock is the forward position cable (as you are sitting in the driver's or passenger's seat looking down on the shifter mechanism).
Check the other end of the brake pedal interlock cable at the brake pedal, as well. I believe this is the more common issue as compared to the ignition interlock. There is a black sheath around the cable a few inches from the brake pedal end of the cable.
Try manipulating the cables with a long screwdriver or pliers to determine which one could be causing the issue (after a visual examination of the shifter bushings / NSS area), to see if you can manipulate the cable to move the shifter out of P. Also, the shifter must be fully in "P" to remove the key from the ignition switch, which you seemingly did last time you drove the car - perhaps another clue that the ignition interlock may not be bad since you were able to do this OK.
Both interlock cables are a 100% mechanical system -- no electronics or electrical relays.
Ok, finally had a chance to work on the car. I may have been mistaken before about the shifter not moving with the key turned as I'm able move the lever with key on and brake depressed. But still no crank. So, I assume the neutral safety switch has died. Will do some testing.
Glen, what happens when you move the shift lever to Neutral and try to crank? It would be odd if there was no crank in either P or N (or, when jiggling the lever a bit).
Also make sure the alarm immobilizer isn't causing the problem - this would also prevent the starter from engaging, @geraniumtr thought of that one (I forgot, ooops).
Also make sure the alarm immobilizer isn't causing the problem - this would also prevent the starter from engaging, @geraniumtr thought of that one (I forgot, ooops).
Definitely sounds to me like the neutral safety switch, given the new information.
If that ends up being the case, while you are in there order a couple of sets of shift linkage bushings and replace them while you are doing the NSS job.
The alarm immobilizer (if the problem) can be permanently defeated; I believe it is detailed here on the forum.
Also at this thread at PeachParts: How-to: Disable alarm on a 1993+ W124 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum
The shifter bushings were all replaced 1.5 years ago when the trans was rebuilt. I believe the NSS was also replaced. Question, I get +12V at the center pin of the 3-pin harness behind the CAN box when the key is turned to the crank position. Would this indicate the starter?
It's a good possibility, yes. You can also try applying +12v to the center male pin and see if the starter engages. If not, the solenoid is probably bad.
+1, Glen, I think you made the right decision. Now, get all of your extensions and knuckles ready.
PS: Don’t take the car apart to access. I removed nothing but the 2 starter bolts and the electrical connectors. Disconnect the battery.
Good Luck
I had the same problem with the 1993 R129 not long ago. It was a stuck immobilizer relay
I had a starter issue on my Limited, likely due to long time storage, but a starter refurbishment fixed it (post #27):
HOW-TO: M119 Engine Starter Replacement | "HOW-TO" Tutorial Articles
Hi Gang, For the last several months my starter would work on first crank sporadically. It'd always spin, but sometimes the drive wouldn't engage, so I'd hear a ZING... This never happened more than once in a row, but it did happen about 50% of my first cranks. Fear of being stranded and...
The starter price is 4 times higher here in Morepay (Norway), subsequently giving a higher payback for that job.
Glen, how many miles on the failed starter? Assuming it was purchased new/rebuilt, any chance it may still be under warranty? If it was still spinning fast, sounds like the only failure was the solenoid.
Good call on buying a new replacement, btw. Check into the warranty terms on this one.
Joe @JC220 posted about solenoid replacement in that starter How-To thread as well, post #50:
www.500eboard.co
HOW-TO: M119 Engine Starter Replacement | "HOW-TO" Tutorial Articles
Hi Gang, For the last several months my starter would work on first crank sporadically. It'd always spin, but sometimes the drive wouldn't engage, so I'd hear a ZING... This never happened more than once in a row, but it did happen about 50% of my first cranks. Fear of being stranded and...
I had to check my records, it was just over 7 years ago and almost 70K miles. It was a rebuilt Bosch unit from AutohausAZ...same one I just ordered. Their warranty is 3 years/36K miles. Maybe I should have bought it from FCPEuro? Oh well, I will probably sell the high miler before this new one dies.
He will be driving electric cars exclusively before the hi-miler hits 1M miles !Glen! You can't sell it until you hit 1M miles!
Never exclusively! More electric cars are definitely in my future but I will never sell my 744 E500.
Not that I am planning to do this, but is cutting the cables the only way? It doesn't appear that those wire ball sockets can be disconnected easily, but can't the sheath just be hooked off?
.
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The mechanism must be locked into the extended position, and the spring on the end of the cable does this.
If you can find a way to lock the mechanism with the cable disconnect, that should perform the same function without destroying the cables. Zip ties or wire might suffice? At the time, I was doing this to a beater 034 that I wasn't concerned about returning to stock, and cutting was easier.
In my experience with my cars the starter motors and alternators should have a service life of 100k miles / 20 years without issue. This assumes semi regular use.
For example a long lay up outside could damage a starter motor solenoid so this would not be considered a "typical" failure.
What I have done on my cars is any time I am performing maintenence which requires either the starter or alternator removed I get them refurbished proactively.
I have mentioned before - I have a local specialist rebuilder very close to home. Does a top job and warranties his work. I trust his rebuilds and NEVER had a single failure 10+ years and counting after he rebuilt them.
These are the original Bosch / MB parts expertly rebuilt and tested.
I think the mistake many people make is getting a parts store refurb / aftermarket unit. In which case sadly they will only last a couple years and be ready to swap them out again- keep your receipt. Original high quality parts for the win! Repair what you have it's much better or source a Bosch rebuild etc. Nothing else.
For example a long lay up outside could damage a starter motor solenoid so this would not be considered a "typical" failure.
What I have done on my cars is any time I am performing maintenence which requires either the starter or alternator removed I get them refurbished proactively.
I have mentioned before - I have a local specialist rebuilder very close to home. Does a top job and warranties his work. I trust his rebuilds and NEVER had a single failure 10+ years and counting after he rebuilt them.
These are the original Bosch / MB parts expertly rebuilt and tested.
I think the mistake many people make is getting a parts store refurb / aftermarket unit. In which case sadly they will only last a couple years and be ready to swap them out again- keep your receipt. Original high quality parts for the win! Repair what you have it's much better or source a Bosch rebuild etc. Nothing else.
I replaced mine around 93K miles soon after I bought the car w/ 89K on the clock. I bought a reman from Mercedes of Anaheim. I have the receipt somewhere. If I remember it was around $100.00 +/- at the time. Still working at 143K miles.
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