suspension and wheel balance/alignment

[JSUNDARAM]

Does anyone have a recommendation for the best suspension and wheel balance/alignment service for E500 in the Bay Area? I have vibration that is most pronounced past 50 mph and need a proper expert to look into it and diagnose correctly. Repeated re-alignments at Firestone don't seem to help.

Thanks!

 

[gerryvz]

Could well be worn tires, or bent wheels. You may want to take your wheels to a wheel shop and have them checked out for trueness...

 

[gsxr]

Search the forum for "Road Force" balancing on a Hunter GSP9700 machine. Find a shop that has one of these AND knows how to use it. The road force measurement should be under 26 lbs (under 20 is better), and make sure they do a dynamic balance with weights on inside & outside of wheel barrel, NOT a single weight in the center (aka "best balance" in tyre shop speak).

http://www.gsp9700.com/

 

[texas993]

Could well be worn tires, or bent wheels. You may want to take your wheels to a wheel shop and have them checked out for trueness...

I went through all of this with my car on the 3,000 mile trip. En route, I went for a regular balancing at Discount Tire (normally a good place). That made my vibration worse. Then I had them road force balanced - which helped - but I was told that I had at least one bent wheel.

This week I took them to local shop who fixed two bent wheels and refinished all of the wheels. They look perfect. And a quick test drive shows that they are now true. Funny thing is that they didn't look bent at all - no lip damage. But it was a good excuse to make my wheels perfect.

 

[KarlC]

Search the forum for "Road Force" balancing on a Hunter GSP9700 machine. Find a shop that has one of these AND knows how to use it. The road force measurement should be under 26 lbs (under 20 is better), and make sure they do a dynamic balance with weights on inside & outside of wheel barrel, NOT a single weight in the center (aka "best balance" in tyre shop speak).

http://www.gsp9700.com/

It is KEY that they know how to do a REAL Road Force balancing on the Hunter machine, do not just amuse that they do. I called around and made sure to ask about this, then I when to have it done and the guy just did a normal install using the Road Force balancing machine. When I asked why he did not do a Road Force balancing and tried to explain how it should be done, he had never heard of it, he got the manager and the manager had never heard of it, they called Hunter and Hunter told them the same thing I was trying to explain.

This place now has a Tech from Hunter coming out to show them how to do a Road Force balancing LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cUQkBLYbUk

 

[gsxr]

It is KEY that they know how to do a REAL Road Force balancing on the Hunter machine, do not just amuse that they do. I called around and made sure to ask about this, then I when to have it done and the guy just did a normal install using the Road Force balancing machine. When I asked why he did not do a Road Force balancing and tried to explain how it should be done, he had never heard of it, he got the manager and the manager had never heard of it, they called Hunter and Hunter told them the same thing I was trying to explain.

This place now has a Tech from Hunter coming out to show them how to do a Road Force balancing LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cUQkBLYbUk

*facepalm*

 

[Roma_500E]

I had a slight vibration on brand new Michelin PSS, perfectly straight and true wheels (balanced at discount tires), repacked and adjusted bearings and brand new front end suspension. It was so annoying. So when I took to realign my car to dealer I asked guys to check wheels balance . Soo ... guess what ?

Jerks from discount tires not only scratched both front wheels (lied to me but still I was able to force idiots to repaint the wheels at good shop at their cost) but they did not properly balanced wheels

MB dealership kindly performed road force balancing and it fixed the issue , now even at 140mph it goes absolutely solid and smooth

 

[Roma_500E]

For alignment, firestone tireplus and other monkey shops are the worst place to bring a decent car for an alignment. Especially with the E500E I would not take to those folks. Most likely they will perform an alignment for just W124 chassis (universal).

Though a great deal + if you find bunch of coupons, savings might be up to $120 compare $144 MB dealer price

 

[szvook]

Jerks from discount tires not only scratched both front wheels

Never, ever take our wheels to a shop like discount tires, or any general tire shop for that matter, you are better of finding a higher end and shop and pay them a bit more. I would never take my HRE wheels to any other shop for tires, luckily the shop where I bought my wheels does tire work and alignment as well - although I do not use them for alignment work.

 

[texas993]

I think that there are good national chain tire stores, depending on location. I have one guy that I go to at Discount here in Dallas who does an excellent job. My Porsche is particular, just like the 500e.

I agree that alignments are specialty shops only.

 

[szvook]

Some chain stores, or better yet as mentioned by Patrick, it depends on the skill and attention to detail by the guy who happens to be working on your car "that" day. Unfortunately, that can be hit or miss which varies from store to store. At least with other shops, they are take more responsibillty when working on the type of cars they usually service. Plus they are not a speed shop.

 

[Roma_500E]

Never, ever take our wheels to a shop like discount tires, or any general tire shop for that matter, you are better of finding a higher end and shop and pay them a bit more. I would never take my HRE wheels to any other shop for tires, luckily the shop where I bought my wheels does tire work and alignment as well - although I do not use them for alignment work.

You are absolutely right. I did it at discount tires (where I bough my M. PSS) cuz was so eager to get new tires on plus I thought it is a big tire shop so they should be able to handle my wheels but I made a mistake.... I did my godfather's W221 at discount tires and they did a great job on the 19" AMG wheels.


For now, ONLY M-B dealer or Maserati/Bentley dealer simply because I can ask for a perfect service and they know I m anal and that my 22 years old car looks much cleaner and better than the most of the 3 years old cars they got in a lot. Plus they keep equipment in a nice shape otherwise some bored super anal granpa on 2013 911 Tubo will beat a shit out of them

Anyway, we waste tons of the money on our 036 toys so it is better to pay much more but get a premium level service.

I think that there are good national chain tire stores, depending on location. I have one guy that I go to at Discount here in Dallas who does an excellent job. My Porsche is particular, just like the 500e.

I agree that alignments are specialty shops only.

Yes there are but in case of tire chain shop it is gamble to get a perfect service. Whats happened in my case the equipment was worn , so the point/support where they press with the wrench to take tire off/on was worn and basically idiots pressed on my beautiful wheels that I bought new ! Honestly after I saw that I was not able to say anything completely lost my words , what can you say to idiots ?

Moreover they lied to me and argued that I m trying to get a freebie few minutes after they scratched the wheels. In situations like that I started to notice a big lack of education which leads to inadequate behavior and arguments. Anyway, I m glad there are managers and apparently they at least have bachelor degree so solved the issue though now I got two refinished not factory paint wheels :sad:I almost got factory wheels deal but then gave up cuz the very important autoshow was coming and it would took long time to seal the deal with the new wheels. I took wheels to the most expensive shop for repainting.

 

[Roma_500E]

The funniest thing forgot to tell.

1) Guy offered me exactly the same pattern front wheels ONLY but aftermarket (why I did not accept that deal). What can you respond to that ?

2) Moreover he kept arguing that there is NO difference between OE AMG and afteramrket one , the ONLY difference is that OE AMG comes with the "AMG" logo because they are sold at dealer but aftermarket are available online so no need for logo :grin:

3) He also added there is no difference between factory paint and new fresh shop paint , famous quote by discount tire guy " paint is paint- all the same" :grin::grin:

My only option was shoot the guy but did not want to go to prison . Seriously , how stupid you have to be to say things like that ?

 

[CB500E]

Just curious why the general consensus is to have alignments performed at the dealer? I have an alignment rack at work and I might have a go at it. Is there anything special about our cars that requires the dealers touch only?

 

[Roma_500E]

Just curious why the general consensus is to have alignments performed at the dealer? I have an alignment rack at work and I might have a go at it. Is there anything special about our cars that requires the dealers touch only?

Usually only dealer has specs and follows them for every model individually which is not a case with the regular shops they try to be universal and work on every brand . So if you have a specs and know how to do it why not to DIY .

I know that when did CL500 C140 and 500E they put weight, maybe it is necessary for hydrolic suspension , not sure.

 

[gsxr]

Mercedes alignment specs are based on using a spring-loaded Beissbarth spreader bar when setting toe. If this spreader bar is not used (for a "pressed toe" spec), the alignment will be off. Dealers have this tool and know to use it. Most chain alignment stores have no clue and will set toe to the spec without pressing the tires outward. Some, like very few, competent independent alignment shops will have the tool and know to use it, or know how to compensate for it.

Bottom line: 99% of the time, the MB dealer will do the alignment right. Probably 90% of the time, aftermarket shops will do it wrong.

 

[gerryvz]

Honestly, GSXR is correct. Even good indy shops will farm the alignment out to a known-good specialist, or the dealer, rather than doing it themselves. I've resigned myself to the fact that a $180 Houston dealer alignment is the best way to go.....

The only caveat and such with the dealer is that if your car is modified/lowered, they will give you a lot of flak and disclaimers about [possibly] not being able to get the car within spec. But generally you just tell them to do their best and get it as close as they can.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

What if your local dealer is 1) a crew of dunces and 2) sends their alignment out to non-MB shops? Does anyone know if non-MB shops that do alignments for MB dealers have to have the proper tools or do they just "do their best"?

 

[gerryvz]

Really ?!? Your dealer farms alignments out to a non-MB shop? Wow. I'd try another dealer that has the proper alignment rack and has trained techs who can do the work. Do you have other dealers in your area you can go to?

It's a good idea to talk with any reputable indy shops in your area to see what they do, and who they go to. Anyone who has been around for a while is going to know who the best resources for alignments are.

 

[gsxr]

I didn't think any dealership was allowed to NOT have an alignment rack. I thought it was a requirement to maintain MB dealer status. Maybe not? Hmmm.

Otherwise, you'll need to check at the other dunce shops, talk to them, and find out which one seems least incompetent.

 

[bing]

Bottom line: 99% of the time, the MB dealer will do the alignment right. Probably 90% of the time, aftermarket shops will do it wrong.

Certainly not in the UK because of the problem as mentioned below by our local/trusted wheel alignment specialist. Note, this problem is well known with RHD MBs in the UK. Beemers/Audis and Toyota etc. don’t suffer the same

Qte:Definative explanation.... Pull left

---

I would like to give a definitive explanation for the historic "pulling left" complaint.

We've all read, heard, experienced this condition, concluding with an official explanation from MB UK it's a "safety feature". It's not.

My field is the chassis but trust me i'm not God in this field nor do i confess to know everything, but with 30yrs in chassis calibration i can recognise a problem and offer a solution.

To the point
The reason most/ some MB's pull/ drift is the build is to perfect?? WTF most are thinking now, and what am i going on about!!

The MB chassis build is superb, tolerance's are minute allowing little future correction at the chassis in the event angles would change. In truth this is a fantastic statement since most modern cars allow for chassis corrections during the cars lifespan.

The problem
The problem is the perfectly symmetrical MB build and our roads!! As abrupt the reason reads that's it.

Solution
Level all the roads in the UK...... Well we all know that's not realistic so what now?

After year 2000 the MB chassis positions was fixed, this was more a
ease of build issue in my opinion but whatever the positions would need additional help by installing adjuster bolts to move angles.

Solution P2
There's a need to move away from the perfect MB build and off-set the chassis in order to cope with the UK's road crown. In order to do this there's two options
1: Stagger the camber positions
2: Stagger the castor positions

Stagger what's that?
The wheels geometric positions offer energy, and handling, tyre wear and all that stuff, but if the "energy" is staggered it's possible to use this inert force to belay the drift.

Options
1: Staggering camber is a dangerous option since camber controls the vehicles weight at the tyres contact patch. Camber position is a prevalent player but a violent force, not to be messed with until desperate times are required.

2: Castor... This is a difficult angle to explain because it has many duties but the one that concerns us is "directional stability". Castor angle holds a directional force that can be manipulated, stagger the castor you can change the force.

To conclude the historic complaints
As said the MB has a "surgical build" in reply to this the MB permitted tolerance's over the axle is minute 30' in most cases, this permitted disparity will not allow sufficient energy to compensate for the UK road crown. MB dealers cannot violate the registered tolerance's even though they probably know what the reason for the complaint is.

In summary
Staggering the castor within the permitted 30' in the UK won't work, it needs to be between 45' to a degree, this violates the MB tolerance's, so in truth MB Uk cannot help you.

I hope this information makes sense, my grammar construction is poor at the best of times.... Poor education i'm afraid.

Unqte>

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/mercedes-pulling-problems.php

Does this makes sense to the gurus here ? It don’t with me but they cured my drift on my ML .

I have had (in UK) dealer alignment countless of times on numerous MBs and none could fix the problem mentioned above. Most just say , “all MBs pull to the left coz of camber on uk roads and can’t be adjusted”.

Left hand traffic and the crown on UK roads don’t do justice for MBs. So much so that most just live with the “pull to the left” problem!

 

[Glen]

Yes, the explanation of pull makes sense but it has nothing to do with MB's being too perfect. We experience the same here in the U.S. except ours tend to pull to the right, again due to the crown in the roads. The way to correct for crown is to stagger the camber AND caster AND rear toe while staying within alignment specifications. There is a certain amount of "art" required of the alignment tech to stagger the settings properly. This is why an inexperienced tech using a laser guided, computer controlled alignment machine often gets it wrong, while an expert can use some string, tape measure and angle finder and align a car to perfection.