400E Timing Chain Whine?

[400Benz]

Hello all, hoping im posting this in the right place but i just finished my m119 rebuild.

Engine has about 60 miles on it and was running strong but a bit rich as i need a new MAF, i currently have it stored at a shop where a family member works and they move them in the morning to have workspace inside. Last time i saw the car on Tuesday my biggest concern was locating a new maf but starting today it seems my timing chain is making a rubbing sound.

Im certain one of these guys moving my car drove it like a hot rod upstairs while its cold ignoring its an engine not yet broken in. Heres a video of the sound its making i wasn't able to find anything similar and would really appreciate any help.

 

[gerryvz]

Are you SURE that is a timing chain sound? It almost sounds like a belt or pulley sound, to me.

EDIT: Or as @TerryA says, a fan blade rubbing on the upper or lower half of the fan shroud, due to the shroud not being re-installed/lined up correctly. Spin the fan to ensure proper clearance here. Collapsed motor mounts can also cause this problem.

I would check all around with a stethoscope to see if, indeed, it is coming from inside the front timing cover / valve cover area, or external.

Perhaps you can remove your belt and also check each pulley - bearings (back and forth motion to check pulley play) and also spinning each pulley to see if it makes noise.

I've really never heard timing chain sounds on an M119. Generally as you know the chain rubs on plastic guides on a well defined path, so unless a guide is worn through to the metal (and I still don't think it would make a sound like that) I can't imagine any problems with the chain. I have heard timing chain sounds on the very similar design M117 (the dreaded "death rattle" at startup, which lasts for only a few seconds), and they are NOTHING like this.

If you've exhausted all other avenues, one thing you could do would be to remove the oil filler cap (or better, yet, one or both valve covers) and use an LED flashlight to shine down into the timing chain area, to see if any material has been worn away. Removing the oil pan on the bottom end would also help determine if anything has worn and fallen down to the pan. Folks here have often reported broken or shaved off timing chain guide materials in their oil pans.

 

[TerryA]

That’s a weird sound, are you sure it’s internal and not just the fan rubbing against something.

 

[400Benz]

I am hoping the sound is external and related to the fans or a pulley. The shop will be looking at the car some point today and hopefully its not as bad as the conclusion i jumped to.

Im a college student and have no prior mechanical experience to this engine. Thank you Terry and Gerry for your insight.

 

[gsxr]

+1 with Gerry & Terry on the noise being related to the fan shroud or belt-driven accessory.

Just curious... what did the "rebuild" entail? The M119 rarely needs anything beyond chain rails and a re-seal. Maybe valve stem seals on a high-miler (300kmi+).

 

[R129 UK]

Does anyone else get this message EVERY time they click a YouTube link in a post?



It’s becoming quite annoying to leave here and go to YT and search for the same video to be able to watch it.

I’m using an iPhone 13 with iOS version 17.6.1 in case that matters.


Thanks.

 

[400Benz]

+1 with Gerry & Terry on the noise being related to the fan shroud or belt-driven accessory.

Just curious... what did the "rebuild" entail? The M119 rarely needs anything beyond chain rails and a re-seal. Maybe valve stem seals on a high-miler (300kmi+).

Exactly that, one of the guides fell apart and was disintegrated on my second day of ownership. Later found it made a new home as pieces all around the inside of the engine. After taking the heads off and seeing the amount of burnt oil buildup from the care of the previous owner i decided i might as well pull it and do a makeover as i intend on having this car for a long time.

I'm hoping all the extra work will help a little with help with its longevity but I’m sure it didn’t need it nonetheless. Everything was disassembled, the heads were done and oil pan pulled and cleaned but left the pistons as is so i guess not a total rebuild.

 

[400Benz]

Does anyone else get this message EVERY time they click a YouTube link in a post?

View attachment 204137

It’s becoming quite annoying to leave here and go to YT and search for the same video to be able to watch it.

I’m using an iPhone 13 with iOS version 17.6.1 in case that matters.


Thanks.

Worried that might happen! My phone took the video in too high of a resolution to be uploaded here. It shouldn’t give you that error if your YT app is signed in.

 

[R129 UK]

Worried that might happen! My phone took the video in too high of a resolution to be uploaded here. It shouldn’t give you that error if your YT app is signed in.

I am logged in but I don’t think it’s anything you have (or haven’t) done.

 

[gerryvz]

Does anyone else get this message EVERY time they click a YouTube link in a post?

View attachment 204137

It’s becoming quite annoying to leave here and go to YT and search for the same video to be able to watch it.

I’m using an iPhone 13 with iOS version 17.6.1 in case that matters.


Thanks.

Definitely your system configuration. You can easily play YouTube videos right from within posts on this forum, either via mobular phone or desktop computer.

 

[R129 UK]

Definitely your system configuration. You can easily play YouTube videos right from within posts on this forum, either via mobular phone or desktop computer.

View attachment 204148

Yes, it would seem that way.

I’ve just returned to this thread and the video is playable.

I’ll continue to monitor future threads to try and establish why this is happening to me.

 

[nocfn]

Meh to be able to work on engine repairs while on the stand. I hope I never NEED to do that, but how much easier

 

[TerryA]

Does anyone else get this message EVERY time they click a YouTube link in a post?

View attachment 204137

It’s becoming quite annoying to leave here and go to YT and search for the same video to be able to watch it.

I’m using an iPhone 13 with iOS version 17.6.1 in case that matters.


Thanks.

@R129 UK,
I’m not sure it will make a difference but I have the same I-Phone 13 and you are behind on updates. You should be on IOS version 18.2.

I see that same message from YT but I have never signed up for YT but I can play the videos.

 

[R129 UK]

@R129 UK,
I’m not sure it will make a difference but I have the same I-Phone 13 and you are behind on updates. You should be on IOS version 18.2.

I see that same message from YT but I have never signed up for YT but I can play the videos.

Thanks Terry, it’s a corporate phone but I’ll update the iOS when I’m back home and see what happens when the next YT vid is linked in a post.

 

[400Benz]

Heres a follow up got it on a lift and saw this wear, shop is closing so will have to check if the starter is loose tomorrow but seems flex plate may be cracked. Notice the fresh metal on the plate

 

[400Benz]

Culprit came out to be a faulty starter/starter solenoid not retracting fully (0 001 110 053)

Im assuming this is the original and if so I'm proud its lasted 33 years.

In another thread i saw it mentioned that (004-151-78-01-88-M14) is a good replacement? But its double the cost, is it an upgrade?

Thanks,

 

[gsxr]

004-151-78-01 is the correct Mercedes part number for the starter. The number you referenced above is a PelicanParts-specific catalog number.

$175 plus $80 core charge from MB of Lardeo:

004-151-78-01-83 - Remanufactured Starter Motor MB Parts Source

Factory Direct Remanufactured Starter Motor (4151780183) For Your

www.mbpartsource.com

$185 plus $50 core for Bosch from FCP with lifetime warranty:

Mercedes Starter Motor - Bosch 0041517801

Mercedes Starter Motor - Bosch 0041517801

www.fcpeuro.com

You can pay $605 to Pelican, but I sure wouldn't:

Mercedes-Benz Starter 0041517801 - Pelican Parts

 

[TerryA]

004-151-78-01 is the correct Mercedes part number for the starter. The number you referenced above is a PelicanParts-specific catalog number.

$175 plus $80 core charge from MB of Lardeo:

004-151-78-01-83 - Remanufactured Starter Motor MB Parts Source

Factory Direct Remanufactured Starter Motor (4151780183) For Your

www.mbpartsource.com

$185 plus $50 core for Bosch from FCP with lifetime warranty:

Mercedes Starter Motor - Bosch 0041517801

Mercedes Starter Motor - Bosch 0041517801

www.fcpeuro.com

You can pay $605 to Pelican, but I sure wouldn't:

Mercedes-Benz Starter 0041517801 - Pelican Parts

$605.00 is an insane price for a starter. I bought mine from MB Anaheim about 18 years ago. It was around $150.00+ core and they said it was a rebuild and there were no brand new starters back then. All were rebuilt.

 

[R129 UK]

Thanks Terry, it’s a corporate phone but I’ll update the iOS when I’m back home and see what happens when the next YT vid is linked in a post.

Update to iOS 18.2 completed and YouTube videos play straight away with no warning screen etc.

 

[gerryvz]

Update to iOS 18.2 completed and YouTube videos play straight away with no warning screen etc.

Only 18.2? You’re lagging behind !!

 

[Rouven036]

Quick recall, isn't there a spacer installed between starter and trans housing?
If that is missing the starter protrudes to far and can ge tin touch with the ring gear.

Edit - indeed there is!

 

[gsxr]

There's an adapter plate (#270 in your diagram) that should always be present.

There are also shims (#265) that may or may not be present. Follow FSM procedure 03-4350 to measure the distance from engine block to flywheel, adjust shims as needed:

https://www.500eboard.co/forums/misc/Manuals/Servicev3.2/W124/w124CD1/Program/Engine/119/03-4350.pdf

 

[400Benz]

Quick recall, isn't there a spacer installed between starter and trans housing?
If that is missing the starter protrudes to far and can ge tin touch with the ring gear.

Edit - indeed there is!

Thats interesting you mention that as i have 2?

I pulled two off when taking the motor apart and didn’t think twice about them. But as it stands according to the document GSXR attached, they are installed correctly.

 

[400Benz]

To wrap up this topic, solution turned out to be a shimming issue on the flywheel itself leading it to rub against the motor. My dad offered to install them while i was sick awhile back and didn’t think to check them later on. But turned out to be a good excuse to have the 4 speed rebuilt.

Anyways thanks for the advice cheers