Turtle Garage: 20 Cars to Consider for Your Garage

[Bogeyman]

Been thinking of "thinning the herd" lately.
Had a German expat stop by the other day with his 30-something son.
They looked at all the cars and showed some interest but the son went nuts over the 500E.
Father tried to calm him down but he kept remarking.
Finally I had to tell him to make me an offer on any one but that one - it's not for sale...

 

[gsxr]

LOL. If he likes smoke silver, send him my way...

 

[maw1124]

Maw. There is an S55 for sale locally that is driving me towards poverty, just from reading your thoughts over time.

drew

Former owner 8899 now has one after selling his 500E, I’ve been “advising” him along the way. I remember telling him, as I tell you now, get them while you can; they’ll never be cheaper than they are right now. And realistically, you’ll never need more car. There’s a reason Klink & Co. used them for cannonball runs. You can run them forever at 11/10ths and they just don’t break. Pure AMG before all the gimmickry.

maw

 

[maw1124]

it's not for sale...

Yeah... some kid in an E55 with no cats or resonators (really obnoxious), spotted me getting in the 500E about 5 years ago at some ritzy valet I frequent, and was like, “is that a 500E?!?!” Me: “Yes.” Pregnant pause... “is it for sale?” Me: “No.” Pregnant pause... “at any price?” Me, eager to end the awkward conversation in front of onlookers, “No.” “You sure??” Me: “_______”. By this time my valet is cracking up... “see ya Mr. Williams!”

Like, no means no.

maw

 

[sheward]

Ohhh...You're not helping. I want more garage space.

drew

 

[maw1124]

Ohhh...You're not helping

Ohhh, but I am though. The best $15k you can spend on a car these days. Sell everything except the 500E. If you get a good ‘06 in Black and don’t like it (unlikely), I probably have a buyer who’ll take it off your hands.

maw

 

[gerryvz]

Latest post from Philip.

@maw1124 -- should be good reading for you, as you've commented on this in recent posts. @deanlaumbach is interviewed/quoted in the piece.

Collector Cars in a Time of Coronavirus: An Industry in Transition

 

[gerryvz]

I do think there is going to be some permanent changes made as a result of the coronavirus situation. I do think more auctions will go on-line, in the BaT (and now RM) model, and there will be some sort of shakeout or consolidation in the collector car auction market. There are too many auctions, too many firms, and too many cars (many of which are not that worthy) constantly going on the market. IMHO far more cars than buyers.

I also predict that BaT will get purchased by a larger auction house, likely to become the on-line division of a well-established "bricks and mortar" auction house like Gooding, Sotheby's, or so forth.

I also think that, at least for the next 5-10 years, this coronavirus situation is going to stick in the minds of SOME people (particularly those folks of more modest means), and re-focus their efforts and passions AWAY from material things like garage baubles, and more toward substantive things of more lasting value.

I think a lot of people have come to believe over the past 20-25 years that things like collector cars are just things that one has to own to fit in with the Joneses, and a lot of people have spent beyond their means pursuing it.

We are going to see a continuing devaluation driven by a lack of interest and knowledge in cars made from the Brass Era through the 1960s, simply because the primary collectors of these cars are dying off at an ever-increasing rate. No one under the age of 40 these days has any appreciation for Brass Era through 1950s cars, probably even extending through cars of the 1960s to 1980s.

Interestingly, per my comment the other day about Wells Fargo dramatically tightening up their lending for mortgages and refinances..... my local mortgage lending friends are telling me that the re-financing market has never been so hot (even before the recent Fed reductions in rates), and that 80% of the refinancings are people who are consolidating HELOCs and second mortgage with their first mortgage.... or doing cash-out refinances to pay down debt. Lending restrictions have also gotten MUCH tighter for cash-out re-fis. Interest rates for cash-out re-fi are MUCH higher than they are for debt consolidation, or even for a simple refi of an existing first loan at a lower rate.

The 80%+ HELOC/second mortgage refi statistic tells me that over the past 5 years, people have gotten way over-leveraged and are looking to pay off debt (or 401k loans and the like) by taking out larger mortgages as rates have become more favorable. I think one thing that a lot of folks have taken loans out to buy, are collector-car garage baubles.

 

[Jlaa]

I think a lot of people have come to believe over the past 20-25 years that things like collector cars are just things that one has to own to fit in with the Joneses, and a lot of people have spent beyond their means pursuing it.

I am intrigued by this statement --- and its probably a function of the (different) circles we hang around in (?). Most of the people I that I hang around (and I don't have a huge social circle) are in their 40s or 30s, and very very few are into "collector" cars. That's actually why I hang out here --- I barely know anyone into collector cars.

The only people I know in real life that are into collector cars who are in their 40s / 30s (I exclude people with a big interest in neat every-day-cars from this) are really people whose family has generational wealth. Maybe it is because when you are in your 40s, you're just thinking about saving for kids' education? I dunno.

The people that I know in real life that are into collector cars straight up are usually in their 60s/50s. These people that I know tend to have a lot of such cars.

 

[maw1124]

Thanks for the article @gerryvz. Interesting that Dean’s comments most closely reflect my own and he appears to be kneeling next to an E5E. Maybe a W140 but it feels like an E5E.

I’m less interested in what happens to the auction houses, as I think technology has already taken care of that — money will find desired assets, one way or another. Owning both art and cars, sure cars cost more but they provide my young-ish, short attention span arse more tactile enjoyment, so it’s worth it. Like golf, it’s expensive in both time and money, but fun at the same time. Cars can actually be an engaging hobby whereas art is just art. Maybe one or the other appreciates more or less than the other in monetary value, but that’s just noise. The signal is, you need both art and hobby. (Off topic, since you’re locked in the house, find “Mercedes Benz — The Steamliner Case” on Amazon and watch it — art and hobby collide).

I agree there are too many cars for sale, too much viewing cars as investments, people wildly overpaying (again, blame the Fed), buying cars for showoff value, and all of that shit is likely to get cut out post haste (yay!!!), at least for now. But it will likely return in 5 to 7 years, and in the meantime, the folks who “exercised their preference for cash” from the recent stock market highs — the smart money that got out early — will continue to pay top dollar for what they want. The “shakeout” I talked about between low milers and everything else will continue. Yada. Yada.

But look, special will always be special. And I personally think E5E, early AMG cars (the AMG Kompressors being the last), air cooled turbo Porsches, E39 E46 and E39 BMW M cars will all remain special for what they represent, so I’m not all that concerned about it. In the meantime, I enjoy the hobby aspects of maintaining and driving them, as well as discussing them and helping others maintain them, like us “car guys” on this site. I consider it a huge “Blessing in the time of Covid 19”, actually.

Cheers,

maw

 

[alabbasi]

I am intrigued by this statement --- and its probably a function of the (different) circles we hang around in (?). Most of the people I that I hang around (and I don't have a huge social circle) are in their 40s or 30s, and very very few are into "collector" cars. That's actually why I hang out here --- I barely know anyone into collector cars.

It's regiona. Collectors cars are a hobby and as with most hobbies. It requires space and time. If you live in a big city like London, you don't have much space and your time is occupied by other things. In the suburbs of Dallas or Atlanta on the other hand. I had plenty of space to put together a small workshop and work on my own cars. It was easier to do that because I had more space and more convenient to commuting into town so that I can do something there. Go to Witchita Kansas on a Sunday and you'll see classic cars everywhere.

 

[Jlaa]

It's regiona. Collectors cars are a hobby and as with most hobbies. It requires space and time. If you live in a big city like London, you don't have much space and your time is occupied by other things. In the suburbs of Dallas or Atlanta on the other hand. I had plenty of space to put together a small workshop and work on my own cars. It was easier to do that because I had more space and more convenient to commuting into town so that I can do something there. Go to Witchita Kansas on a Sunday and you'll see classic cars everywhere.

Ah, ok! I haven't lived in an area with inexpensive land prices for a very long time.

Last guy I knew who was majorly into collector cars and was in his 40s lived in a suburb of Chicago. This was over 20 years ago. Land was much cheaper. He taught me a lot about how to fix my Citroen. Replacing the suspension spheres was a snap, and I drilled out the orifices in the spheres to make the ride *softer*

 

[gsxr]

But look, special will always be special. And I personally think E5E, early AMG cars (the AMG Kompressors being the last), ...

Nooo! M156 being the last! (OK, fine, I'm slightly biased.)

 

[sheward]

Great photos! A Citroen gathering. and not a shabby one in the bunch.

drew

 

[alabbasi]

Ah, ok! I haven't lived in an area with inexpensive land prices for a very long time.

Last guy I knew who was majorly into collector cars and was in his 40s lived in a suburb of Chicago. This was over 20 years ago. Land was much cheaper. He taught me a lot about how to fix my Citroen. Replacing the suspension spheres was a snap, and I drilled out the orifices in the spheres to make the ride *softer*

View attachment 96174

View attachment 96175

That's more Citroens than any man should sensibly own

 

[RicardoD]

Jlaa, I have a soft spot for Citroen’s as well. Especially the classic DS and my Dad and I were always looking at the CX model in the late 80s.

 

[alabbasi]

Everyone loves the DS, it's hard not to. The CX was a pretty neat car. I had a huge soft spot for the Prestige models which appeared to have an extended wheelbase and roof line and the turbo which looked pretty neat. The XM that came after it also looked really nice. I don't think that I've seen ones in decades. The only Citroen I ever drove was a BX. I've always gravitated to German and more recently British cars.

I don't know what parts support is like for French cars. I had friends complain that they couldn't get stuff for their 8 year old Peugeot that I could buy for my 25 year old Mercedes, and that was in the mid 90's.

If the Tesla business model gets taken up. I expect that all cars will have a shelf life of an IMAC. I cannot assume that we won't go there. If I was told that I'd be charged extra for hand luggage 20 years ago. I would have considered to be laughable.

 

[RicardoD]

Yes, the Prestige models look cool, never driven one. Jlaa, what is your experience here?

 

[gerryvz]

I am intrigued by this statement --- and its probably a function of the (different) circles we hang around in (?). Most of the people I that I hang around (and I don't have a huge social circle) are in their 40s or 30s, and very very few are into "collector" cars. That's actually why I hang out here --- I barely know anyone into collector cars.

That's exactly the point. I'm not going to generalize about generations, because it leads to arguments that are pointless. But I will say that folks in their 50s, 60s and older value cars MUCH more than younger folks -- both as transportation and for their collectible value, and hobby (maintenance) value. But it's a natural evolution. I mean, how many Boomers or Silent Generation folks are (or were) into horse buggies and early electric or steam cars? Probably a very small number.

As generations pass on, interest in older cars (Brass Era, 40s, 50s and even now muscle cars) is demonstrably starting to wane, and prices are coming down. I know I personally have ZERO interest in any car until the 1980s (a few pre-1980s Benz models excepted). You couldn't GIVE me a Hudson Hornet, '57 T-Bird, 1970s Corvette or a '57 Chevy. Don't hate 'em, I just don't think they provide much fun and driving enjoyment, at least the type I like.

 

[maw1124]

Yeah... but even though the generational arguments are pointless, we know some of the observations hold merit. And this CV19 pandemic will have a similar effect on younger generations that the oil crisis had on older generations, as it pertains to petrol fueled hobbies. They wane and then rebound later. If you grew up pining for a ‘71 Chevelle Malibu then find yourself with disposable cash, it should surprise no one if you later buy a ‘71 Chevelle Malibu. Same for a naturally aspirated M156 E63. How much later and what you pay are the variables that are impacted by these passing crises, but only that IMO.

maw

 

[alabbasi]

I know I personally have ZERO interest in any car until the 1980s (a few pre-1980s Benz models excepted). You couldn't GIVE me a Hudson Hornet, '57 T-Bird, 1970s Corvette or a '57 Chevy. Don't hate 'em, I just don't think they provide much fun and driving enjoyment, at least the type I like.

I think that this is normal. People tend to appreciate the cars that were hot when they were kids or have an emotional connection to. Maybe because it was a hot car in the day, or an adult in their childhood had one, or if it's a movie car etc.

I like a pretty broad range of cars for that reason but my interest drops off for anything older than say the mid 60's.

I also think that there's a regional aspect involved. Growing up in London, I can probably count on one hand the number of people (or parents) I knew who bought a brand new car from a dealer lot (from the age of 8-18). I believe at the time that the majority of new cars sold were sold to companies, so a new car in my neighborhood was usually 3-4 years old.

I also like the puzzle aspect or some boutique cars and trying to figure how to run them inexpensively. So far, trying to figure out how to save a couple of hundred bucks has cost me thousands but I'm still game

 

[gerryvz]

@alabbasi You always struck me as a Sunbeam Alpine/Tiger kind of guy ...

 

[alabbasi]

@alabbasi You always struck me as a Sunbeam Alpine/Tiger kind of guy ...

Don't joke, I like those! I scored a TR6 on Christmas eve which will keep me busy. As far is grin performance. It's very hard to get more smiles per miles than an old British sports car.

 

[Jlaa]

Great photos! A Citroen gathering. and not a shabby one in the bunch.

That's more Citroens than any man should sensibly own

Yeah, that was our midwest gathering of CXes. The guy from Romania was nuts about Citroens - he had CXes, Traction Avants, 2CVs, etc. He was certifiable, but such a resourceful guy. Imagine being in the midwest pre internet days and fixing and keep your fleet of Citroens running!

Everyone loves the DS, it's hard not to. The CX was a pretty neat car. I had a huge soft spot for the Prestige models which appeared to have an extended wheelbase and roof line and the turbo which looked pretty neat. The XM that came after it also looked really nice. I don't think that I've seen ones in decades. The only Citroen I ever drove was a BX.......
I don't know what parts support is like for French cars. I had friends complain that they couldn't get stuff for their 8 year old Peugeot that I could buy for my 25 year old Mercedes, and that was in the mid 90's.

There was a place in Santa Cruz that distributed Peugeot and Citroen parts. I cannot remember the name exactly, but Jacques was the man that I dealt with. Jacques was such a great guy. He passed away some years ago, may he rest in peace.

Yes, the Prestige models look cool, never driven one. Jlaa, what is your experience here?

I lusted after the CX because my uncle had a CX Prestige in HK. I loved riding in that thing. The diff between the Prestige and the non-Prestige models IIRC is that the Prestige model had a longer wheelbase with even more room in the back. Mine was a 1985 GTi that I back-dated to a late 70s S1 look. Anyways, aside from the turbo models in the 80s, they all drove about the same .... which is to say, completely disconnected from the road. Very floaty, very comfy, and I enjoyed it. It was a very sensual (not sexy) car. I really enjoyed looking at the car and letting my eye linger over the details and seeing the concave surfaces contrast with the convex surfaces.

The only problem was the build quality was crap.

 

[alabbasi]

The only problem was the build quality was crap.

I think that this was an issue with many French cars of the era. That, and them being over complicated. Everyone I know in the UK that owned them would say that everything would start going wrong at around 75000 miles. I think that the only exception to this rule was the Peugeot 504 and 505 which had a great rep.

French cars were usually optioned out much better than a British or German car and made excellent used car bargains. You could get a fully loaded Citroen XM or Renault 25/Safrane for about 30% of it's new price after 3 years.

 

[Jlaa]

I think that this was an issue with many French cars of the era. That, and them being over complicated. Everyone I know in the UK that owned them would say that everything would start going wrong at around 75000 miles. I think that the only exception to this rule was the Peugeot 504 and 505 which had a great rep.

I would love to have a Peugeot 505 Turbo, replete with yellow lights. Few and far between here in A+ condition.
I feel like the 505s are super-durable workhorses (especially in Africa) --- much like 124s are.

1987 Peugeot 505 Turbo 5-Speed

Bid for the chance to own a 1987 Peugeot 505 Turbo 5-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #2,572.

bringatrailer.com

 

[alabbasi]

I saw one on the road a couple of weeks ago heading north on US 75. I was driving my 1980 280TE with a manual gearbox at the time. We gave each other the taxi driver nod

 

[RicardoD]

It was a very sensual (not sexy) car.

I am up for a sensual weekend with something like this (sold for $12,700 in 2017) but "built like crap" does not make it a keeper. Could be nice a long road trip. Long like the .036!

1987 Citroen CX 25 Prestige

Bid for the chance to own a 1987 Citroen CX 25 Prestige at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #4,949.

bringatrailer.com

 

[Jlaa]

I am up for a sensual weekend with something like this (sold for $12,700 in 2017) but "built like crap" does not make it a keeper. Could be nice a long road trip. Long like the .036!

1987 Citroen CX 25 Prestige

Bid for the chance to own a 1987 Citroen CX 25 Prestige at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #4,949.

bringatrailer.com

View attachment 96244

Oh la la!!!!

 

[gerryvz]

OK guys ... this is a GERMAN car forum. We speak German, not French. Please get your tongues off of the pavement and go to France if you want a French car.

Or go to Citroen Car Club • View forum - The Modern Classics

 

[alabbasi]

and there's me hoping it would cross the channel to England. Is anyone tracking fuel prices? I filled up for $1.34.9/gallon last Friday.

 

[northNH]

I might have mentioned before what my Swiss mother was taught in grade school:
Worth repeating here I think...

In Heaven:
The English are the police,
The French do the cooking,
The Italians are the lovers,
The Germans make the cars,
The Swiss run the hotels.

In Hell:
The English do the cooking,
The Italians run the hotels,
The Germans are the police,
The French make the cars,
The Swiss are the lovers.

 

[gerryvz]

This post ought to make @Glen happy:

BMW E39 M5: The Ultimate Driving Machine | Turtle Garage

turtlegarage.com

 

[maw1124]

Yeah, IMO the E46M and the E39M are definitely two BMWs worth owning. There are a couple others, but generally they’re like Porsche’s to me — the interiors don’t hold up as well as the drivetrains and suspensions. Which wouldn’t be that much of a problem except the interior is where I spend my time. The E39M came with an Extended Leather package which has held up much better (my buddy has one, leather dash, etc.). But they are massively fun and competent cars to drive in 6MT format. In the E46M I actually prefer the SMG transmission. The E39M actually makes two foot driving worthwhile, although if they had SMG back then it would probably change for me. The ability to control shift points without the extra foot is world bending to me.

maw

 

[Jlaa]

Yeah, IMO the E46M and the E39M are definitely two BMWs worth owning. There are a couple others, but generally they’re like Porsche’s to me — the interiors don’t hold up as well as the drivetrains and suspensions. Which wouldn’t be that much of a problem except the interior is where I spend my time.

You are using the wrong Porsche as reference then. You have to use an old-school 911, where the interior looks like an archaic contraption from the 60s (cause it is), but it wears like iron (because there's not much in the way of interior plastics).

 

[Glen]

This post ought to make @Glen happy:

BMW E39 M5: The Ultimate Driving Machine | Turtle Garage

turtlegarage.com

LOL, yes it does
My E39 M5 is a 2003 with just shy of 65,000 miles now. It's a fantastic car with the extended leather that maw mentions as well as having burl wood (no titan trim for me). I love that it has a traditional manual trans, wouldn't have it any other way.

Interestingly, earlier this year, I bought a 981 Boxster S with PDK and Sport Chrono and absolutely love it. I think Porsche makes the best dual clutch transmission...it's a better 'automatic' and great manual all in one. You really can have your cake and eat it too. LOL.

 

[maw1124]

You are using the wrong Porsche as reference then. You have to use an old-school 911, where the interior looks like an archaic contraption from the 60s (cause it is), but it wears like iron (because there's not much in the way of interior plastics).

928’s mostly... maybe bad era or too many stored outside... yeah, the “sport beetles” have held up much better.

maw

 

[Jlaa]

928’s mostly... maybe bad era or too many stored outside... yeah, the “sport beetles” have held up much better.

maw

I agree. 928 interiors were beautiful, but the problem with 928 interiors is that everything was leather and it was applied all over the place -- the dashboard, the door panels, the center console, etc etc .... with multiple compound curves. Add in the fact that the 928 was a greenhouse w/ all that rear glass and park 'em in the sun, and the leather shrinkage over time look terrible

There was a guy in TX (Paul Champagne) who specialized in ONLY 928 interior leatherwork. Paul has since retired, but I found that to be astounding ---- can you imagine what a small market that must be to have a customer base that (a) owns a 928, (b) wants to re-do the interior and (c) is willing to pay for it?

Anyways he retired and the world is a poorer place because of it. I'm still waiting for @Klink to talk about his 928.

Paul Champagne Art Work (pics please, but not required) - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

928 Forum - Paul Champagne Art Work (pics please, but not required) - Guys, We were hoping the stars would align and this would be installed in my Grand Prix White '94 GTS withe Classic Gray interior today. Maybe it will happen next week, but I had Paul send me the pics because I could not wait...

rennlist.com

 

[RicardoD]

This business of craftsman retiring is a very real thing. I have a friend that is part of a non-profit that hands out grants to help develop the next generation of craftsman for auto restoration. That "old guy" who ran some specialty shop for 40 years doesn't seem to have someone to hand off the business to.

 

[maw1124]

These last two posts... yes, I was considering a 928 (S4 or GTS), and had my eye on Paul as a resource... his retirement pumped my brakes on that... and while the boat guys around town here in SW FL are very good for leather, wood, and high quality boat vinyl as an alternative (LOVE this stuff for humid climates) they’re also retiring very quickly which increases the time and effort necessary to pull off a project... and increasingly my time and effort go to higher value activities... so yes, it’s a real thing... my E5E might regrettably therefore be my first and only “mini-restoration” project... unless I look up after the kids finish college with more money and time than things to do... by then all the artisans might be long gone, to @RicardoD point... so far they’re passing the businesses to their [fairly worthless] kids who are in it more for the money than the art... like, they’d rather be doing something else but since they’re lazy and undisciplined they have to “settle” for what dad did to provide them the opportunity to be lazy and undisciplined... ... don’t get me started sounding like an old fart... maybe I can keep my guy going like Rodger in Wayne Carini’s shop... at least that’ll get me through a ‘71 SEL 6.3...

maw

 

[RicardoD]

There is a 4 year college, with an auto restoration degree, that Mercedes Classic Center supports (Jay Leno is on the board). It is McPherson College in McPherson, Kansas.

Auto Restoration

www.mcpherson.edu

I showed this to my older son, who is into cars now, to see if he had interest, to get a combined business degree, along with auto restoration, but frankly, the college is in Kansas, a small liberal arts campus, founded by the Church of the Brethren, and didn't have the appeal to my West Coast California Kids that other large state schools have.

 

[gerryvz]

McPherson is well known. It's supported by Mercedes-Benz and MBCA, and a number of McPherson grads have gone on to work at the MB Classic Center.

Anyone who goes to McPherson for its auto restoration degree is going to go to there because fixing and restoring cars is their PASSION and their FUTURE CAREER. It's not a prestige or a vanity or a bragging rights thing. Unfortunately (as the college admissions cheating scandal illustrates) it is drilled into kids (and their parents) that they NEED to go to a prestigious name school to be successful.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. I would say that 50-70% of all kids in four-year universities today, really have no business being there. Either from an academic standpoint, or they don't know what they want to major in, or they should have gone to a trade school (or a school like McPherson). But it's not fashionable nor considered successful to impress others to go to a trade school or a place like McPherson.

I have a good buddy from high school who went to trade school right out of college. He's a car engine whiz, always was. While he was in jet engine mechanic school, paying his way through, he started working for United throwing bags. Then he "graduated" to emptying latrines with the shit-truck. After he became an engine mechanic, he started servicing planes overnight and doing jet engine swaps and later heavy maintenance. He's now been with United for 30+ years, and makes more money than probably 95% of the people on this forum (with overtime pay), with Teamster benefits. And he loves what he does, and the company gives good employee perks. He never went anywhere near a university, yet he is super successful, and for many years owned two homes and commuted between them (Brisbane, CA and Seattle) before settling down in Seattle once a senior mechanic job opened up there.

What I have observed in my career, and what I tell people, is that when you are 5 years out of university, it really doesn't matter WHERE you went to school. Going to an Ivy League or prestigious name school may help you land a first job at a great company, but to be honest once you start your career, your fate is in your hands, and you sink or swim, rise or fall, and advance based on what you have done, the impact of what you have done, and what potential bosses and employers think you can do for them.

I have known plenty of people who have gone to po-dunk small state or private schools advance in their careers far beyond any Harvard grad. This whole "you must go to a four-year university" thing is a total scam.

The exception to all of this, of course, is a government job. It's hard to get fired from a government job, and easy to advance as long as you are still breathing. And as I'm learning, living here in Maryland, it is also very lucrative working for the government.

 

[Jlaa]

There is a 4 year college, with an auto restoration degree, that Mercedes Classic Center supports (Jay Leno is on the board). It is McPherson College in McPherson, Kansas.

Auto Restoration

www.mcpherson.edu

I showed this to my older son, who is into cars now, to see if he had interest, to get a combined business degree, along with auto restoration, but frankly, the college is in Kansas, a small liberal arts campus, founded by the Church of the Brethren, and didn't have the appeal to my West Coast California Kids that other large state schools have.

I'll drop everything and get a degree @ McPherson if you'll do it with me.

 

[maw1124]

Might be the type of thing I do when I have more money and time than things to do...

maw

 

[RicardoD]

@Jlaa ,

Ignoring the leaving the wife and kids part, I would gladly go with you to pursue an auto restoration degree and then open up a shop. I would come out at 54 and then hopefully have another 25 years to contribute to the industry. Instead I will slave away at home making yet another wave of amazing consumer electronics for the insatiable world demand for such things.

@gerryvz

I have had to come face to face with the whole University Admission thing over the past 12 months as well as the parental psychology behind it. I have had to reckon with the fact that I am a college snob, even though I went to the lowly, University of Illinois for my engineering degrees. In my hiring at work I have the pick of the litter of kids from the "prestigious" universities but also work with incredible people who went to San Jose State or the "lowly" Univ. of Arizona which is a great school that I had a chance to visit last year. My own son is a smart kid, a leader, but not a 4.0 all AP classes kid, which basically has pushed him out of state. It is so crazy competitive now. I don't think I could get back into the university I went to.

It is hard for my son to have the perspective of a 30yr old let alone a 50yr old. I told him you don't have to be the grease monkey at the local Jiffy Lube but you can become a well educated auto restoration business leader. My wife thought I was nuts but I said I would support him 100% if he wanted to go to McPherson. He just couldn't picture himself there after visiting Univ of Colorado, Cal Poly, UCLA, Univ of Arizona, etc. My perfect curriculum would have been mechanical engineering combined with auto restoration skill development. I dream of being able to weld and do metal work like that guy on Wheeler Dealers (Ant).

 

[maw1124]

If I can have a hoist or two in my garage and handle my cars the way most here do, I think I’d be OK... putzing around in the garage / mancave with a couple buddies, cigars and the final round of some golf tournament every now and again. For my son to join it would have to be the Premier League and no cigars (soccer player, also looking at snob only schools) but that’s OK.

@gerryvz, I tell people the same thing, but I use 20 years. Of course it’s not technically accurate because network matters more than almost any of it. But at least it gets people thinking about college the right way. The network thing they’ll learn in year 21 when they’ve plateaued in their career. 15 or 20 years out it won’t matter; after that it definitely does.

maw

 

[gerryvz]

The best advice you can give your son is to figure out what he wants to do for a career, that will make him happy. And then to go the best school he can that will train him for whatever that is. Whether it is being an accountant, or a stock broker, or an engineer, or a publicity guy like me. If you truly love what you do, the sky's the limit, and it matters not where you go to university.

Oh, and the second thing: "You get out of it, what you put into it." I truly believe that.

My fiancee Laura, got her mechanical engineering degree from the "lowly" University of Maryland -- despite getting an appointment to the US Naval Academy, Georgia Tech, and several other schools. She decided to turn all of that down, and stay local (she grew up in Baltimore), live at home, and work her way through school at a bank and later on, bartending (which she says she made HUGE money doing). Graduated with zero college debt, and has a very nice career in construction project management, specializing in building refitments with a sub-specialty in HVAC and mechanical systems. I went even lower, to the "lowly" Oregon State University in Corvallis, like my parents before me. Only because I DIDN'T want to live with my parents and go to the University of Washington, nor live in the middle of nowhere and go to Wash. State University. Wouldn't trade my time at "pedestrian" OSU for anything in the world, and my career certainly hasn't suffered for having attended there. Heck, my boss, Larry Ellison, never even graduated from college !!!

 

[maw1124]

“You can love something you’ll never be great at; but you can’t be great at something you don’t love.”

My kids will finish that sentence for you they’ve heard it so much.

maw

 

[gerryvz]

Actually, @RicardoD has quite an enviable problem! My son told me when he was in 8th or 9th grade (he'll be 21 next month) that he didn't want to go to university, that he wasn't cut out for university studies, and that it would be a waste of money and time to send him to a four-year school.

This -- a kid who had a financial full-ride to any school on the planet, no strings attached, turned it down. At least he is honest with himself, and was honest with me. Maybe when he's older he'll change his mind.

 

[sheward]

McPherson is well known. It's supported by Mercedes-Benz and MBCA, and a number of McPherson grads have gone on to work at the MB Classic Center.

Anyone who goes to McPherson for its auto restoration degree is going to go to there because fixing and restoring cars is their PASSION and their FUTURE CAREER. It's not a prestige or a vanity or a bragging rights thing. Unfortunately (as the college admissions cheating scandal illustrates) it is drilled into kids (and their parents) that they NEED to go to a prestigious name school to be successful.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. I would say that 50-70% of all kids in four-year universities today, really have no business being there. Either from an academic standpoint, or they don't know what they want to major in, or they should have gone to a trade school (or a school like McPherson). But it's not fashionable nor considered successful to impress others to go to a trade school or a place like McPherson.

I have a good buddy from high school who went to trade school right out of college. He's a car engine whiz, always was. While he was in jet engine mechanic school, paying his way through, he started working for United throwing bags. Then he "graduated" to emptying latrines with the shit-truck. After he became an engine mechanic, he started servicing planes overnight and doing jet engine swaps and later heavy maintenance. He's now been with United for 30+ years, and makes more money than probably 95% of the people on this forum (with overtime pay), with Teamster benefits. And he loves what he does, and the company gives good employee perks. He never went anywhere near a university, yet he is super successful, and for many years owned two homes and commuted between them (Brisbane, CA and Seattle) before settling down in Seattle once a senior mechanic job opened up there.

What I have observed in my career, and what I tell people, is that when you are 5 years out of university, it really doesn't matter WHERE you went to school. Going to an Ivy League or prestigious name school may help you land a first job at a great company, but to be honest once you start your career, your fate is in your hands, and you sink or swim, rise or fall, and advance based on what you have done, the impact of what you have done, and what potential bosses and employers think you can do for them.

I have known plenty of people who have gone to po-dunk small state or private schools advance in their careers far beyond any Harvard grad. This whole "you must go to a four-year university" thing is a total scam.

The exception to all of this, of course, is a government job. It's hard to get fired from a government job, and easy to advance as long as you are still breathing. And as I'm learning, living here in Maryland, it is also very lucrative working for the government.

I agree with this word for word and anyone looking for direction today should read it and believe it.

drew