[Video] 500E Dry Ice underbody treatment

[jhodg5ck]

We have a Cold Jet dry ice blaster and the requiste air to drive it. Dry ice has very much been a Thing with food shipping and vacine shipments taking it ALL... that said, my supplier says I'll be able to purchase here in the coming weeks/month. We have 5 cars on site Waiting currently...

So, now we can make the underside of your car look as good as the top so it's all congruent with it's perfect mechanicals once we're Done...


jono

 

[Kyiv]

@jhodg5ck, just curious, how much do you charge for the service, at least approximately? Thanks

 

[jhodg5ck]

Depends just how Nasty things are, but presently we're in a range of 850-1500.

 

[PJmak]

Depends just how Nasty things are, but presently we're in a range of 850-1500.

How long does the job take on average? That seems kinda steep

Whats all involved except for being under the car and doing the obvious?

 

[jhodg5ck]

If it's on the low end of the spectrum, we can turn it around in a day if schedule properly.

Buying around 50G in equipment, setting up a booth to do the work, getting the totes of dry ice shipped in and then trying not to die in a puddle of CO2 not much beyond that...
Ah, and if you're not careful dry ice Will Tear Things Up. I watched a dry ice blasting service do some Serious Damage on alloy bits, take off coatings they weren't supposed to etc...

FWIW, if you want to have someone come to your facility and blast for the day it's around 3000-4500.

 

[luckymike]

Finally heard from the dry ice place here in Newport Beach. Prices are variable depending on how bad the car is and what result the owner is looking for. I was told to plan for $1,000-1,500 for the undercarriage. Could be more if I want it 'perfect'. Wheel wells are sometimes included, it depends. He charges a flat $350 for the engine.

My mental estimate was WAY off. I think you have to want this pretty badly or have comfortably deep pockets.

 

[JC220]

If it's on the low end of the spectrum, we can turn it around in a day if schedule properly.

Buying around 50G in equipment, setting up a booth to do the work, getting the totes of dry ice shipped in and then trying not to die in a puddle of CO2 not much beyond that...
Ah, and if you're not careful dry ice Will Tear Things Up. I watched a dry ice blasting service do some Serious Damage on alloy bits, take off coatings they weren't supposed to etc...

FWIW, if you want to have someone come to your facility and blast for the day it's around 3000-4500.

I think your price is MORE than fair considering the man power and equipment outlays.

If I lived there I'd be taking you some cadavers

 

[gsxr]

Finally heard from the dry ice place here in Newport Beach. Prices are variable depending on how bad the car is and what result the owner is looking for. I was told to plan for $1,000-1,500 for the undercarriage. Could be more if I want it 'perfect'. Wheel wells are sometimes included, it depends. He charges a flat $350 for the engine.

My mental estimate was WAY off. I think you have to want this pretty badly or have comfortably deep pockets.

I was estimating low $1k ballpark, so they're pretty close to what I expected.

Dumb question, but can't we just use a normal pressure washer on the wheel wells? It would be far more difficult to use a pressure washer on the whole undercarriage, and it might be a bit more abrasive than a proper dry-ice treatment. But if you can pressure wash the wheelwells (at home) before getting iced, it might help keep the price down a bit.

 

[PJmak]

Im sorry but a decent detail job is 800-1500 and to me that seem like a way more intense job that can take up to three days.

I think this ice blasting is expensive mostly due to lack of competition.

 

[TerryA]

Since I have way more time than money. I would do it per the 600Eric and Captruff method.

LOTS of ELBOW GREASE

 

[jhodg5ck]

A 3 day detail is a full paint correction/ceramic coat, interior, engine and then some. That's a 3g+ job if they're doing it right.

If someone will give you 3 days work for that cheap I have to question their skill set, Alt they won't be in business for long so best take advantage of they are good.


Sounds like a business opportunity for you, best get to it!

 

[gsxr]

I think this ice blasting is expensive mostly due to lack of competition.

...and the lack of competition is due to the high cost of the equipment. The price will come down if more shops get this capability, but with a healthy 5-digit investment required, it's not going to be common anytime soon.

The catch here is, I don't know of an elbow-grease method that is equally effective. Most solvents strong enough to cut through debris may also damage the surface underneath you are trying to protect. The ice blast does this well. Spray9Dawn and toothbrushes may get close, but still not as good.

 

[mikeym]

...and the lack of competition is due to the high cost of the equipment. The price will come down if more shops get this capability, but with a healthy 5-digit investment required, it's not going to be common anytime soon.

The catch here is, I don't know of an elbow-grease method that is equally effective. Most solvents strong enough to cut through debris may also damage the surface underneath you are trying to protect. The ice blast does this well. Spray9Dawn and toothbrushes may get close, but still not as good.

What about a liberal (is that allowed???) spraying of Red CRC brake cleaner followed by Super clean/zep orange or purple/simple green extreme followed by clean water rinse?
Since masks are required pretty much everywhere and N95/KN95 masks are in readily available, reuse them for auto underbody cleaning.

 

[gsxr]

CRC Brakleen will eat the paint. No bueno.

 

[TerryA]

What about a liberal (is that allowed???) spraying of Red CRC brake cleaner followed by Super clean/zep orange or purple/simple green extreme followed by clean water rinse?
Since masks are required pretty much everywhere and N95/KN95 masks are in readily available, reuse them for auto underbody cleaning.

Red CRC Brake Cleaner will remove paint pretty damn fast. Don’t even think of using it on painted surfaces OR where there is undercoating.

Mineral Spirits or Kerosene will not harm paint and works pretty well with a stiff paint brush to remove grease. I’ve gone as far as to brush grease areas with Mineral Spirits and then use my sand blaster filled with the solvent for the final clean.

Make a stiff paint brush with a 3” Chinese Natural Bristle Brush by cutting the bristles back by at least half the length. The shorter the bristles the stiffer they become.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use GASOLINE!

 

[jhodg5ck]

Red CRC Brake Cleaner will remove paint pretty damn fast. Don’t even think of using it on painted surfaces OR where there is undercoating.

Mineral Spirits or Kerosene will not harm paint and works pretty well with a stiff paint brush to remove grease. I’ve gone as far as to brush grease areas with Mineral Spirits and then use my sand blaster filled with the solvent for the final clean.

Make a stiff paint brush with a 3” Chinese Natural Bristle Brush by cutting the bristles back by at least half the length. The shorter the bristles the stiffer they become.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use GASOLINE!

Grew up cleaning Austin Healey's in dad's restoration shop....we used everything Nasty and otherwise to clean those cars...before the EPA really stepped in. Nothing does the job like dry ice can...nevermind any chemical that works reasonably well gives you cancer of Ev-ery-thing.... We even had a steam Jenny for the last few years, that thing was Brutal...

No bueno on all counts!

 

[JC220]

Finally heard from the dry ice place here in Newport Beach. Prices are variable depending on how bad the car is and what result the owner is looking for. I was told to plan for $1,000-1,500 for the undercarriage. Could be more if I want it 'perfect'. Wheel wells are sometimes included, it depends. He charges a flat $350 for the engine.

My mental estimate was WAY off. I think you have to want this pretty badly or have comfortably deep pockets.

Im sorry but a decent detail job is 800-1500 and to me that seem like a way more intense job that can take up to three days.

I think this ice blasting is expensive mostly due to lack of competition.

I think @PJmak should invest $250k or so in a shop, lifts, employees, required power supply & Dry Ice Blasting setup and cut the bottom out of this dry ice blasting market (Pardon the pun)

I think 250USD sounds like a good deal for a couple of days cleaning for board members(?) That ought to set the market straight and bring some much needed competition.

 

[JC220]

My post above is obviously in Jest!

I'm just saying that when considering a sevice such as this we must consider not just the labour rate but the level of investment and overheads a shop has to endure also.

This is not a DIY prospect. The air supply, cost of equipment, lift, power supply etc all require significant $$$,$$$ investment.

The operator should also have experience and you are paying for that expertise too. So all that said I would be happy with the 850-1500 Jono estimate considering the labour hours required and thier investment in offering the service in the first instance.

Real world example. My local machine shop charges £50gbp per hour for vapour blasting engine parts. This equipment requires about £9k investment so considerably less than ice blasting. I am happy with that labour rate and that they offer the service. They admit it is not very profitable but offer it to some customers. If it was any less per hour why to heck would they bother? They have more profitable things to be doing.

 

[PJmak]

For sure but let me just put it this way.

Unless the undercarriage is covered in rust and 20 year old parts that were never replaced, that $1500 you spend on ice blasting you'll never see back. People will be turned off by rusty bottom and broken axle boots, cracked flex discs, and leaky seals so spending extra to clean that up will help sell the car. If you have an average regularly maintained car with none of those issues, it doesn't require ice blasting to sell. This is more suited for expensive super rare cars that have seen better days.

In other words its way overpriced because an average buyer will be ok with a normal looking undercarriage as long as it doesn't look rusty and neglected(in maintenance) like I said above. Just wipe the oil leaks off once they have been sorted


Its just one of those things where we as humans go "oh its the underneath of the car....I get it... its supposed to be dirty like this so its ok".

Seeing it all shiny is nice but to me and I'm sure to most people that's not necessarily the breaking point when buying the car.


I think most people are ok with it looking normal as long as there are signs of it being maintained.

Not bashing the business and power to you but I personally would rather spend 1500 on interior detailing or even a half decent polish job.


If I had a half million dollar car id consider doing this

 

[ace10]

BaH results do not agree with your assessment of the perceived uplift. This was discussed at great lengths last year in the BaH thread.

 

[northNH]

Kinda’ like the folks who wear fresh underwear every day ‘cause they like having a clean bottom?

 

[PJmak]

This is just my opinion. While I do to some extent understand the process and what's invested in it, I don't agree with the price what so ever.

Ice blasted well maintained undercarriage vs non ice blasted well maintained undercarriage on sub 100k car just makes no difference. If the car is on display at a show or museum......sure. One thing we are overlooking here is that the undercarriage gets dirty fairly easily, especially if the car is daily driven.



You might be more tempted by the clean one but technically the value of the car did not increase just coz the undercarriage is ice blasted. I am comparing this to lets say paint correction. Thats like saying the value of my car increased just because I washed it. If you decided to pay more for one that had ice blasting done I think you are making a mistake. I get it, you are competing in an auction vs guys that don't care so you'll go an extra mile.

If you spent 1500-3k on paint correction now thats a whole different story. That'll easily boost the cars value by 5-10% because you are fixing neglected paint that's actually.......broken so to speak lol

A simple undercarriage wash like this is more than enough in my opinion and definitely wont cost 1500 and is something most ppl can do them selves.

Oh and just coz the price of the service is justified by how much is invested in the business, it doesn't mean its a good investment into my car but I get it, there are people out there who dont view money the same way as me so there will always be customers.

 

[PJmak]

Kinda’ like the folks who wear fresh underwear every day ‘cause they like having a clean bottom?

Not at all in any way the same or even similar to that.

 

[sheward]

Your opinion is understandable and I agree with much of it. As a selling tool the process competes with other improvements. See my post no. 24 for an alternative motivation for having the cleaning performed. I'm pretty frugal with my money but consider this process worthwhile to baseline a car I'll be working on for years. Actually, if a car is maintained and leaks are addressed when they begin a cars undercarriage stays quite clean. The benefit from performing this procedure on a car that's going to sale is not necessarily to convince buyers that the car is not in need of any work but to offer a good baseline for the new owner to maintain.
After all is said, everything is expensive these days if you are not doing it yourself. Good for you if you are. I would never have done so myself at my age without a lift.

drew

 

[Kyiv]

I watched a dry ice blasting service do some Serious Damage on alloy bits, take off coatings they weren't supposed to

Between us, on a customer's car?

I don't agree with the price what so ever.

I feel the same way. In such a wealth country, there are many people who can truly afford this type of custom service/product and then there are even more suckers who technically can't, but will still go for it, propping up the price further. Like the myriad of people buying Louis Viton bags, and then you see them shopping in WalMart for industrial junk food, wearing it over a $30 blouse, in $70 well-worn shoes, with unwashed hair. On the other end of the equation, in general, Americans want and expect $100k+ salary, including the salesman of the dry ice blasting machine. The end result is good for Jono and his employees, does not bother those who can truly afford it, but excludes people like you and me. "Nothing personal - just business"

When I lived in LA, "North American" body shops usually charged x3 to x4 times what a "central American" body shop would for body work. Same quality, minus the smug attitude of the "north American" shop. This particular Latino guy (and his employees) that I used, had hands made out of gold, worked like a slave on a galley, did not use clouded copy&paste corporate phrases when interacting with you, and had LOTS of work. No doubt, outsourced to him by the "north American" shops, where customers got charged x3-x4 the price . It was the same thing with plumbers, painters, etc.

 

[Jlaa]

This is just my opinion. While I do to some extent understand the process and what's invested in it, I don't agree with the price what so ever.

I hear you! I think you might not be the target market for this kind of service then. FWIW, I would pay for this service for two of my cars and I have no intention of selling either of those cars. I would look at it as an exercise in paying for mental satisfaction.

 

[duuder]

they did the engine bay too

 

[Jlaa]

they did the engine bay too

I am tired of the tiny little bit of money that resides in my wallet. It bores me so. Someone please remove this burden from my shoulders so that I may tithe to the temple of Dry Ice!!

(To be fair they did chew up the sticker / ring thing on the ZHM reservoir....and the washer fluid tank is still yellowed and aged....) but still the cam covers turned out so nicely!

 

[Ntrepid]

They're in Costa Mesa. Website does not list how much this service costs but it would be great to know.

I am Detailing - I Am Detailing

I AM DETAILING is California’s premier automotive restoration and protection specialist. Delivering you the finest ceramic coating, paint protection film and

www.iamdetailing.com

Robert

 

[TerryA]

I am tired of the tiny little bit of money that resides in my wallet. It bores me so. Someone please remove this burden from my shoulders so that I may tithe to the temple of Dry Ice!!

(To be fair they did chew up the sticker / ring thing on the ZHM reservoir....and the washer fluid tank is still yellowed and aged....) but still the cam covers turned out so nicely!

@Jlaa,

I cleaned my water reservoir tank by removing it and using “Comet Cleanser” on it. It looks as good or better than the “Dry Ice” Cleaning.

The bleach in the Comet did the job easily and the whole tank is clean not just the top or sides you can see.

I did it when I replaced the washer pumps and all off the rubber seals on the tank. You know how one thing leads to another.

lol

 

[ace10]

I totally need one of those. Wonder what they charge (per car) for folks lucky enough to live near Costa Mesa, CA.

And does the Coldjet PCS60 really cost $90k as claimed...?!! Of course, I can't find official pricing anywhere.

Aero2 PCS 60 - Precision & Versatile Dry Ice Blasting Machine | Cold Jet

The Aero2 PCS 60 is a precision dry ice blasting machine designed to give the user complete control enabled with Cold Jet's Industry 4.0 solution. Call now!

www.coldjet.com

This For Sale thread on the Land Cruiser forum revealed that you have a service provider right there in you hood.
And it's cheaper than expected.

SOLD - Idaho: 2003 Toyota Land Cruiser

2003 Toyota Land Cruiser for sale. This rig is in pristine condition cosmetically and mechanically. I thought I was going to keep it forever so I spared no expense in keeping it running and looking good. I have all the maintenance records and all work was done with OEM parts. Recent work...

forum.ih8mud.com

I wouldn't call the work "concourse" level, but a 200K mile 100 Series Land Cruiser is a lot bigger job than a Merc sedan.

 

[RicardoD]

Please take my money to dry ice my 964. Here is the latest video, they can even stop at the cosmoline level or go further if desired.

 

[mikeym]

Red CRC Brake Cleaner will remove paint pretty damn fast. Don’t even think of using it on painted surfaces OR where there is undercoating.

Mineral Spirits or Kerosene will not harm paint and works pretty well with a stiff paint brush to remove grease. I’ve gone as far as to brush grease areas with Mineral Spirits and then use my sand blaster filled with the solvent for the final clean.

Make a stiff paint brush with a 3” Chinese Natural Bristle Brush by cutting the bristles back by at least half the length. The shorter the bristles the stiffer they become.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use GASOLINE!

Before the wisdom shared in this post, I had used Red brake cleaner to clean out the layers of grease stuck to the rear differential. Now, you guys have me set with paranoia with rear diff rusting away and bottom of the car sinking in the middle of the interstate. Should I clean it up well and repaint it?

Thx!

 

[gsxr]

Before the wisdom shared in this post, I had used Red brake cleaner to clean out the layers of grease stuck to the rear differential. Now, you guys have me set with paranoia with rear diff rusting away and bottom of the car sinking in the middle of the interstate. Should I clean it up well and repaint it?

Kinda depends on the climate where you live. The differential is very low risk, if there's any external rust, it's only an eyesore to whatever mechanic sees it next. However, if you have clean bare metal, it would be a good idea to paint it before it starts rusting. Easier now than trying to clean rust later on.

 

[Matt-R20]

Reading this thread from last year I wanted to chime an clarify a few things so you all have some perspective and accurate information about dry ice cleaning for collector cars. Just for background, I’m a originally a Porsche collector and I’m OCD. Also live in SoCal, mild climate and our cars stay pretty nice and we can drive all year round, I do realize this is not the case in most places of the world. I had my first used Porsche steam cleaned years ago to remove the cosmoline and take all the black off a 45K mile car and at the time it was the best process. I have also tried all the chemicals mentioned along with elbow grease in the driveway to clean cars. The results are OK at best.

Once I saw Dry Ice Cleaning I went down the rabbit hole and purchased all the equipment, joined a national automotive dry ice community (drycenation) and trained myself to be fully proficient with the technology. There is, hands down, no better process to clean the complicated surfaces of a car, especially if it is covered in tar or cosmoline undercoating. Those undercoatings essentially seal the car from new. I also took the next step last year and turned this into a business, that today is low volume based on my time constraints, but still very compelling. All the comments in this thread are fairly common, so let me try to address some of these:

1. Equipment - To do this properly you need a 30HP rotary compressor (I use a Kaeser AS-30), dryer and very clean air. To that, you connect a ColdJet PCS60 dry ice machine which is the only machine that can clean effectively and not damage the car or its surfaces. This is the key, this machine is fully controllable, from particle size, to volume and of course pressure. This is not sand blasting, its much softer. I can clean the inside of the car as well as the outside. To give you perspecitve, I wear knit Adidas shoes and clean them on my feet with the machine as part of my clean up.
2. Equipment cost - This technology is expensive because of patents and other stuff the equipment guys have. The dry ice machine is $50K, the air system is $30K and you have $20K to install it all, buy a lift and all the other equipment that goes with it. Plus you need a shop and space. As someone mentioned this is a barrier to entry, so its not like pressure washing where $1K and a truck gets you in business. You also have significant training to ensure you know how to deal with each car and all its surfaces.
3. Environmental - CO2 is a byproduct of the petroleum process and therefore here already. And the fact that you can clean without chemicals and polluting water is significantly cleaner. We sweep up the contaminants at the end and they go in the trash bin vs the ocean or streams.
4. Dry Ice - We use 3mm “rice” shaped dry ice. You can buy this 500lbs at a time. To clean a 500e, we are probably talking 1,000 to 1,500 lbs of ice to do a really nice clean.
5. Cost - Going rate is about $250-300 per hour. I know the videos make it look simple and fast, but I plan to have about 25 hours into my 500e when done. (most dry ice videos are shown at 20X speed, so its very time consuming) Obviously, because its my time I’m really getting thorough, but reality is you can spend even more time than that. Generally and underbody clean starts at $2K and works up from there. A full cleaning is likely $3-4K for a complex car like a Mercedes. That said, some clients only want to spend small amounts and focus on certain areas and that is possible too.
6. Damage - Dry ice can damage surfaces as can any high pressure process (think pressure washing), but if you have a trained provider they can actually rejuvenate surfaces. It won’t damage paint that isn’t already damaged. We can actually remove oxidation off plastics, wiring and rubber revealing a new surface underneath, just like polishing the paint on a car. Because we don’t use chemicals, the surfaces stay true, someone mentioned brake cleaner and zing/cad plating, yes that will eat it up. Dry Ice will reveal it.
7. Why Drive a Clean Car - This is definitely up for debate and I don’t think there is right or wrong. If you are going to daily drive your 500e in the salt and muck, for sure, you probably ought to undercoat it further. But by now, most of these cars are for enjoyment, weekend drives and other light duty stuff, so while they may get a little dusty etc, dry ice makes them like new and they can be maintained with conventional techniques like pressure wash or a simple wipe down. Because from the factory they cover them in cosmoline to protect in shipping, you can’t really wipe that down and keep it presentable, so Dry Ice enables this. Also, a lot of guys have lifts or stackers in their garages these days, its much more common than in the past. If you have this car up all the time, you don’t want to look at a dirt covered black bottom, ask me how I know.
8. Removing Coatings will Damage the Car - Not really, conditions will. I have some clients that are concerned and we actually recoat the car with 3m Cavity wax which is a lighter form of wax coating. In addition we can ceramic coat the bottom of the car and we are working to find the best process for this, we have a few different options, but this process is so new we don’t have the years of history to look back on Exactly what is best.
9. Toothbrush and Elbow Grease - While you can manually clean a car, the result will not be as good and the chemicals to make it manageable risk damage. As said, until you see this work and get into all the nooks and crannies, you will have no idea how good the process is. Our process does include manual cleaning. We have exhaust restoration, we polish paint on the bottom of the car etc, but the dry ice gets it clean first.
10. Clean Cars are Easier to Repair - Some of my best clients are actually my mechanic friends. They pull an engine and send me the car. I send the chassis back perfectly clean so they can see everything going on and they bolt that new engine back into a clean shell.
11. Clean cars don’t add value - If this were true, then no one would polish a car. Just like a clean interior or paint, a clean bottom side implies a well maintained car. I know it doesn’t repair old parts or take care of deferred maintenance, but that condition is proven with the paperwork and presentation of mechanical condition. 2 cars with similar condition and maintenance level, the cleaner car will command a higher price. Also, a very clean higher mile car with great maintenance now becomes much more interesting relative to a lower mile car. I have cleaned 100K mile Porsche‘s that look brand new when we are done, take years away. Last point, if you are talking a $10K car, you won’t get much out of this, but realistically we are talking high 5 digit to 7 figure cars for this process. You can have a 5 figure spread in auction results very easily and clean cars sell higher.

I’m sure I will get a bunch of blow back, and yes I am biased, but I actually came into the process from the perspective of a collector, and I’m simply trying to give perspective from someone with a lot of first hand experience. Also, the best thing about dry ice is you can clean a very complicated car without the need to take it apart. Unlike cars from the 50’s and 60’s which were simple, these 80’s and 90’s cars are better the less disturbed you can keep them. And if you have to take them apart, I’d much rather repair a clean car vs a filthy one. If anyone wants more info on how the process works etc, you can check out this video for more info. I’m also happy to answer any questions we didn‘t address. So many of you have helped me with knowledge on the 500e thus far, so hopefully I can reciprocate on the dry ice stuff.

All your Dry Ice Cleaning Questions Answered

 

[dbb7697]

Dry Ice Cleaning Machine IC 022 EVO for Auto Detailing and Maintenance

OG's ICS IC 022 EVO dry ice cleaning machine, perfect for car detailing, small parts, and rubber trim. This lightweight, low-noise unit operates on air and uses standard dry ice pellets, making it an efficient choice for various cleaning tasks.

www.obsessedgarage.com

this is not for an entire car. it is not powerful enough and would take forever. The process and equipment is not cheap.

 

[Matt-R20]

Dry Ice Cleaning Machine IC 022 EVO for Auto Detailing and Maintenance

OG's ICS IC 022 EVO dry ice cleaning machine, perfect for car detailing, small parts, and rubber trim. This lightweight, low-noise unit operates on air and uses standard dry ice pellets, making it an efficient choice for various cleaning tasks.

www.obsessedgarage.com

this is not for an entire car. it is not powerful enough and would take forever. The process and equipment is not cheap.

The Evo will not really remove cosmoline and the difficult stuff. Its good for dust and light cleaning, door jambs, engine bays, wheels etc. To clean the way you want to, you need the commercial system.

 

[chicky]

... in a 3rd world country, this is my best option since dry ice blasting is not available

BTW, the gas station where I had this done has stopped doing the underside washing, the 2 post lifter is busted

best regards Gentlemen

 

[M104-AMG]

... in a 3rd world country, this is my best option since dry ice blasting is not available

BTW, the gas station where I had this done has stopped doing the underside washing, the 2 post lifter is busted

best regards Gentlemen

Reminds me of late-night runs to the local self-serve car-wash that had hot-water, a pressure-tank with Dawn Professional, Purple-Max, or equivalent, some toilet-scrubbers and lot of quarters . . .

neil